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Cindy
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"Education is an Atmospehre, a Discipline, a Life"
Well.. I just thought we had to start this forum with that quote! Pure CM....and just about covers it all.
Well, we're done!  Just kidding.
I look forward to discussing her original writings here. If someone has a favorite quote, please post it for us to enjoy. Maybe we can post some segments of her volumes and post some discussion starters, or narrations.. or life application- lots of possibilities.
If you have any ideas, please jump in.
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Cindy in Texas
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Cindy
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If you would to post a longer quote, the Ambleside website has her writings on line, so it is wondeful to cut and paste in. You can look up quotes in your own books and find them fairly easily on the website. Saves lots of typing--- 
Here is the link-
http://www.amblesideonline.org/CM/toc.html
I am still learning a lot from CM so welcome any quotes or thoughts whether you are new to her original writings or an old hand!
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Cindy
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One more thought I wanted to share-
We have a local Cm group here in Houston. For years we did presentation and discussion meetings that were based in a large part on The Charotte Mason Companion by Karen Andreola, then expanded into other areas. We enjoyed them a lot and learned a lot. Now we have a wonderful facilitator of the meetings who assigns us segments of Mason's original writings to read- no study guide- and we meet monthly to discuss.
Though we are reading the Victorian language of Cm the meetings are anything but dry. We just pull out favorite quotes as we sip our coffee and the conversation naturally flows to how things work in our homes, how her ideas work, or sometimes don't. The application of her ideas to real life in 2005 is amazing.
I truly think CM is timeless. For example she was describing the vapidity of the schools in England during her time and we looked at each other in astonishment- much of the problems of today were reflected in her descriptions of that era. Her reaction was to educate parents and create the PNEU schools. Our calling is to educate at home. But Charlotte and we are using similar methods and philsophies.
Discussing her philosophies and methods really doesn't take a study guide.. she has so much to say that is relevant to us and our families today.
Do you all find that?
(But I still recommend Elizabeth's book! That beautiful bridge gives us even more to ponder.)
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Cindy in Texas
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cathhomeschool
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Okay, I cringe at the thought of what I'm about to write....
I haven't read any of her original volumes.  Yikes! I have them on my shelf and have read small bits and pieces, but not much. Which volume do you recommend I start with?
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Cindy
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cathhomeschool wrote:
| Okay, I cringe at the thought of what I'm about to write.... |
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(Jannette- I have to ask Elizabeth a question first.. .. Elizabeth... Do I get to set rules on the forum I moderate?? Here is the first one..)
NO CRINGING ALLOWED! 
This is a guilt free zone!
Hi Janette! I remember when I started Cm-- my friend Kathy Hoeweller (remember her from the conference in 1999?)- she gave me the Catherine Levison study guide and I just devoured it. It was years before I read any orignial writings, because they intimidated me. 
I came to find out that reading CM was a lot like doing a crossword puzzle.. you know how you the gist of how they work..language they use.. etc? After a while I found the writing easier to read and it became familiar.
Oh, you didn't ask all that, did you?
Try Volume 1, Home Education. Read her 18 points in the preface. After that you may just want to stay in the same volume and read part one. I enjoyed part one.. just talking about children and thier value.
I am going to ask my friend in our cm group to give us some recomendations of where to start, because I'll bet we have a lot of people brand new to the series. I have not read them all, but pieced through them. My firend has read them all several times.
Does anyone else have suggestions of a good place to start?
Another thought- the way I started was when I wanted to learn about nature study. I used Penny Gardner's study guide and I also went thought the index of each volume and read all I could find on that subject.
You may want to think about what area is of interest to you right now and do an index search. There is so much she speaks to.. atmospehre, habit, nature study, narration... etc, etc. That was one of the best studies I did-- since I was interested and wanting to know about it- it gave me lots of incentive and passion to learn.
Glad you are here.. I look forward to seeing what you find of interest in the volumes! Keep us posted.
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Willa
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Cindy wrote:
One more thought I wanted to share-
The application of her ideas to real life in 2005 is amazing. I truly think CM is timeless. |
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I'm reading CM's Philosophy of Education (vol 6) right now -- I've never read more than a few pages into it previously.
This following quote reminds me of what you say above about CM being timeless. She could easily be talking about our society today.
"We fail to recognize that as the body requires wholesome food and cannot nourish itself upon any substance so the mind too requires meat after its kind. If the War taught nothing else it taught us that men are spirits, that the spirit, mind, of a man is more than his flesh, that his spirit is the man, that for the thoughts of his heart he gives the breath of his body. As a consequence of this recognition of our spiritual nature, the lesson for us at the moment is that the great thoughts, great events, great considerations, which form the background of our national thought, shall be the content of the education we pass on. Germany made her school curriculum utilitarian marks the beginning of her moral downfall. History repeats itself."
The whole Introduction which is as far as I've gotten so far is very good and makes an appeal for an education for ALL that will fit our vocation as free citizens with human dignity.
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Willa
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About which CM book to read first, I agree that Home Education is the most accessible..... It's the only one I've read all the way through. Plus, there is a modern paraphrase at the Ambleside home (here's the LINK). So you can check your understanding of the Victorian prose by reading the updated version (if you don't mind abridged versions TOO much) 
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Cindy
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WJFR wrote:
| About which CM book to read first, I agree that Home Education is the most accessible..... It's the only one I've read all the way through. Plus, there is a modern paraphrase at the Ambleside home (here's the LINK). So you can check your understanding of the Victorian prose by reading the updated version (if you don't mind abridged versions TOO much) |
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Hi Willa-
Glad to see you here!
Yes, I think HE is the most accessable and it also targets children up to age 9 or so. It talks of her philophies and how she views children. I think this is essential because how we view the children dictates all we do. Primary to all is respect.
It also goes into nature, different subjects and habit, among other things. Her writings on habit are some of my favorites. Our local CM group spent three months just on studying habit, there is so much there. One mom tied it into the virtues and gave us some beautiful information. If I can find that I will see if we can post it to files.
Willa, you make a good point about the introductions. Never skip them in CM writings.. she packs them full, too. I find I have to read slowly and sometime ponder a paragraph a long time, especially if it is well-packed.
Every book has a detailed table of contents and you get a preview of what is coming up. Scanning those can give you an idea of what book you may want to look into.
And, Willa, what do you think about the paraphased version? I found that a few weeks ago and felt like a traitor reading them! Well... not really, but was afraid I might like them, and not pick up CM herself- I think the antique language adds to the effect. Or do you just use them to check meaning?
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Willa
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Cindy wrote:
And, Willa, what do you think about the paraphased version? I found that a few weeks ago and felt like a traitor reading them! Well... not really, but was afraid I might like them, and not pick up CM herself- I think the antique language adds to the effect. Or do you just use them to check meaning? |
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Well, since you asked, Cindy 
I haven't used the paraphrase -- I just found it last week and I haven't been browsing through Home Education since then. I think the modern version loses something in the "translation" -- but it could be useful to compare especially if you were just starting out reading, I would think. Just as someone nowadays might start out reading Catherine Levison or Penny Gardner or Karen Andreola before reading CM's actual books... my own way in was Susan Schaeffar Macaulay's book with all the great CM quotes. (I'm not mentioning Elizabeth's book here because its intention isn't just a "CM-adaptation")
Because Philosophy of Education, the final volume that I'm reading now, is sort of, um, philosophical and more abstract than Home Education... I printed out the summaries that are posted at Ambleside because it helps me get a handle on where the book is going. There's so much there, though; I think that's one of the "problems" and joys of CM's books -- she puts a lot into a paragraph, moves on, and then comes back to the topic to expand on it in a different place in the book or in another book.
Not exactly a quote, but what I've been pondering the most recently is the "habit of attention" that CM says is foundational to education. I see I have a tendency to let my active boys get away with less than perfect attention... and that I have a tendency to not want to spend the time and effort needed to foster complete attention. I'm trying to slow down a little this year ... one thing I did right with my oldest was to talk and listen to him a lot. He was the kind of kid that needed to talk and listen in order to process and learn, so it came naturally. My present 12yo is a "just do it" type and sometimes, honestly, we rush through a reading and narration because he wants to be on to the next thing. But we miss things that way.
I guess attentiveness is an important aspect of your "Atmosphere, Discipline, Life" too (scrambling to pull together the loose ends in this post somehow
-- Attentiveness on my part AND the kids' part -- that's sort of my unstated goal or motto for now )
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Willa
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alicegunther
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WJFR wrote:
Not exactly a quote, but what I've been pondering the most recently is the "habit of attention" that CM says is foundational to education. I see I have a tendency to let my active boys get away with less than perfect attention... and that I have a tendency to not want to spend the time and effort needed to foster complete attention. |
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This is a habit that has been so easy to let slide, especially with many little ones and a bustling household keeping me from focusing my attention on one thing at a time. It sometimes seems a bit funny for me to expect my girls to give complete attention when I spend my day nursing, keeping the baby from eating legos, answering my five-year-old's questions, doing sporadic loads of laundry, turning off whistling tea kettles, and answering the phone, all while listening to my three-year-old pound the piano keys, calling out now and then to ask, "How did dat sound?!" I am a veritable model of inattentiveness!
Still, all kidding aside, one thing that helped my children quite a bit was when I explained to them that boredom actually comes from dawdling. For example, a dozen math problems may seem boring, but in reality, the math problems are mentally stimulating. It's the dawdling in between each problem that makes the work seem boring, drawn-out, and tedious. Believe it or not, they agreed with this observation wholeheartedly and have been motivated to work more efficiently ever since (especially with a few gentle reminders from me!).
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Attentiveness... This has been on my mind as well, and for the same reasons already stated. This is a very busy house, and we mothers are pulled in SOO many directions at once, trying to keep encouraging everyone in their efforts  , negotiating the broken hearts  , redirecting the energies of the boisterous  , nursing the sick  (we've had the flu here all week!), etc. etc. And when we all sit down to read over lunch or teatime, discussion gets very animated sometimes, and there are always dc who get "lost in the shuffle." With 7 minds and hearts to keep track of, it is so hard to get them all focused in the same direction at once.
So...
I'd like to hear any ideas others have to help get a rambling group regularly focused. I'm fresh out
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Willa
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KathrynTherese wrote:
With 7 minds and hearts to keep track of, it is so hard to get them all focused in the same direction at once. So...
I'd like to hear any ideas others have to help get a rambling group regularly focused. I'm fresh out |
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Hi KathrynTherese!
You know, I have the same trouble. I used to do lots more multi-level teaching in this house. My older kids were closer in age than my last few have been. It didn't work as well as I could have hoped though. Too much crowd control and not enough, hmm, attentiveness. My second son hardly learned anything in group teaching at all but just phased out. Seems I can keep them better focused one on one.
Hmm, maybe your signature quote is good in this context. Little things add up to bigger things. I can't always be a perfect model of attentiveness... Alice described it so vividly! we're multitasking whether we like it or not, I think! but I can at least minimize the times when I'm just not there for the kids when I could be there. I get wrapped up in my own thought processes and realize that I've been carrying on a semi-conversation with some poor child for a minute or two without really hearing a thing!
I have been thinking that attentiveness is closely related to contemplation... being right THERE in the moment, in the present circumstance, not daydreaming or running over a list of things to do. That's a BIG issue with me!
We've been trying to pray more together, and that's been a way to pull together those minds and hearts a little.
Not much help I'm afraid -- I'm short of ideas on this one too and would love some advice.
Edited by WJFR on Feb 14 2005 at 3:46pm
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Willa
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KathrynTherese
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WJFR wrote:
| You know, I have the same trouble. I used to do lots more multi-level teaching in this house. My older kids were closer in age than my last few have been. It didn't work as well as I could have hoped though. Too much crowd control and not enough, hmm, attentiveness. |
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Yes, "crowd control." That's what it feels like.
And yet, when I try to spend the one-on-one time that seems like a better alternative, I feel like I turn into "people manager." Crowd control of a different sort (don't we all love these silly emoticons?)
I tend to read aloud our basic history/religion/science "living books," as everyone can enjoy them at some level. Then we break up for other subjects. But even our read alouds can get crazy. Suddenly, ds 11 and 9 can't seem to leave the twin girls (age 7) alone. It's always a boy - girl mini-battle. I am grateful they are not really arguing; it is mostly the teasy faces or poking fingers thing. But it can be impossible some mornings to get through 2 sentences without having to remind someone how to listen. And then we are all distracted by the correction of the distraction.
In some ways, this is just life in a big household, and I know they are learning many skills that they cannot learn from books. But it makes the teacher nutty.
Well, we will keep plugging along, learning how to be ourselves in a group and not disrupt the group or drag it off topic. This is an important skill. I have to keep telling myself that.
And mom will just keep "managing people." There are far more difficult problems we could be facing!
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Willa
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KathrynTherese wrote:
In some ways, this is just life in a big household, and I know they are learning many skills that they cannot learn from books. But it makes the teacher nutty.
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LOL! Oh I forgot, there's an emoticon for that too! 
And don't forget, it's February! I keep having to remind myself of that. We have a 1 ton glacier on our deck. It's hard to remember that spring is going to come eventually. Everything just *seems* drearier and more purgatorial this time of year.
One thing in one of the Charlotte Mason books I was recently looking through said that her teaching methods -- living books, narration, et al -- didn't depend on a wonderful, inspiring teacher or a great, distract-free environment. She didn't say it quite that way, but that was the idea. That's another thing I keep having to remind myself. I think you're right that the distractions and character issues ARE part of the curriculum.
Anyway, what I REALLY wanted to say before I started rambling is that I'm happy to see your name on here, KathrynTherese! Welcome! <hmm no welcoming emoticons, and I haven't found a chance to use this cool one  so maybe I'll just put it here anyway...>
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Willa
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cathhomeschool
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KathrynTherese wrote:
But it can be impossible some mornings to get through 2 sentences without having to remind someone how to listen. And then we are all distracted by the correction of the distraction.
In some ways, this is just life in a big household
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We go through this same thing almost daily, and we only have 4. The two littles argue and have to be separated/re-directed. The older two pick on the little ones to watch them squirm...sometimes 15 or 20 minutes go by and we're still on page 1.
I've found that the best "cures" to these situations involve keeping all hands (and sometimes mouths) occupied. I read while the kids eat or while they color maps or pictures related to the story. My favorite solution is to place a BIG pile of laundry on my bed and read while the kids fold! This really works well...we just need to go through more laundry because we have lots of read alouds!
(It's great to "see" you again, Kathryn!)
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WJFR wrote:
Anyway, what I REALLY wanted to say before I started rambling is that I'm happy to see your name on here, KathrynTherese! Welcome! <hmm no welcoming emoticons, and I haven't found a chance to use this cool one so maybe I'll just put it here anyway...>
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Thanks, Willa. And Janette! I've been no mail for quite some time, as I've been overwhelmed with real life. My sister-in-law was battling cancer for some time (she passed away just 10 days ago) and we were running to Chicago quite a bit, etc. The book has kept me busy also (doing pretty well, by poetic standards! )
I need to thank Elizabeth for not forgetting about me, and for inviting me via email to this bulletin board. I missed you all. God willing, I will visit with you more often!
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KathrynTherese wrote:
| I've been no mail for quite some time, as I've been overwhelmed with real life. My sister-in-law was battling cancer for some time (she passed away just 10 days ago) |
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I wondered why I hadn't seen your name on the CCM loop. I'm sorry to hear about your SIL. We will keep her and family in our prayers.
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alicegunther wrote:
Still, all kidding aside, one thing that helped my children quite a bit was when I explained to them that boredom actually comes from dawdling. For example, a dozen math problems may seem boring, but in reality, the math problems are mentally stimulating. It's the dawdling in between each problem that makes the work seem boring, drawn-out, and tedious. Believe it or not, they agreed with this observation wholeheartedly and have been motivated to work more efficiently ever since (especially with a few gentle reminders from me!).
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Alice,
This is positively brilliant! I am most certainly going to explain this to my persistant dawdlers.
Thanks a bunch!
Blessings,
Michele
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Thanks Michele, and welcome to the board!
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Cindy
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Hi all-
Just to throw in the mix with the habit of attention:
My older is a dreamer. A short math sheet takes him forever and when younger it used to overwhelm him.
Instead of just focusing and getting it done, he waited, thought, waited.. etc.
I used very short lessons and did tiny amounts. That helped over the years.
Now he is older and when he sits down to do a math page he first draws all over the opposite blank page. In fact I'm going to keep the old math book as an art portfolio!
I tell him he could be finished in 15 min vs. 35 if he would just get started. He knows. But he likes to draw first.
I think the habit of attn is valuable and applicable to all, but on the canvas of each child's given personality. It won't fit the same child the same way. But is a good habit to know. He knows now... and can make the choice for himself when to focus and when to dream...
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Education is an....
