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Karen T
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| Posted: Oct 06 2006 at 12:23pm | IP Logged
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I wasn't sure exactly how to title this! I teach my oldest ds, 13, with various things I pick up here and there, usually a spine for things like history/science, with lots of living books added in, writing with IEW, etc. Fairly structured but not a canned curriculum.
My other two kids are barely 5 dd and almost 7 ds. Ds had some mild developmental delays early on but seems to have caught up in speech, motor, etc. He's very intelligent and has a great memory. Because of his delays and to make things easier, I held off on doing much last year other than learning the sounds of the letters, etc. with both of them. I have been trying to teach them together to make it easier on me. We have been doing phonics with Explode the code (they both loved the pre-explode books and raced through them mostly on their own) but have bogged down now with blending into words. Dd can do it but gets tired easily (no problem, i don't mind going slowly) but ds just doesn't get it at all and gets frustrated easily. we are doing Miquon for math and that goes slightly better, although here it is ds who is quicker than dd. Other than that we read aloud a lot and look at maps, do nature study, etc.
here is my question, though; they are both beginning to resent ANY school time, sitting down to do anything. All they want to do is go play. Ds especially has an attitude and even with very short lessons, puts a mad face on  when being told what to do. he'd rather be outside catching bugs. That's great, but there's a time for that, right? I'd just like to get an hour or two of stuff done each day (spread out, not all together) but he fights me on all of it. Dd used to be more interested in learning to read but has lately caught ds's attitude. I don't want to make learning a chore, but are they ever going to *want* to learn to read or write, etc. on their own? I feel like I'm letting them down if I don't do anything with them.
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ALmom
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| Posted: Oct 06 2006 at 3:54pm | IP Logged
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I don't do everyday with my children under 7 - they need the playtime and the opportunity for eyes to develop. Perhaps take a week or two break - declare it a Fall Break or an All Saints break (see sneak in the liturgical year) and then see what happens at the end of the break. After that you can reassess. During the break focus on obedience, chores, noticing when they make a mess and cleaning up after themselves. That will be invaluable in the long run. Just an idea.
Janet
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Mary G
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| Posted: Oct 06 2006 at 4:48pm | IP Logged
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Karen,
I go back and forth on this for my littles -- some days we are VERY un-schooly and other days, I'm very structured and organized (well, structured for me, that is  ).
But as I was just explaining to MaryM -- I really have found that school is living, so I don't worry so much about hitting every course at the same time every day or even any day..... when opportunities for nature study or liturgical year or somehting come around that's what's key.
You might look at the "unschooling" archives -- there's lots of great stuff there about Leonie's "pegging" system where she has certain "must do" and unschools from there.....
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MaryG
3 boys (22, 12, 8)2 girls (20, 11)
my website that combines my schooling, hand-knits work, writing and everything else in one spot!
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Leonie
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| Posted: Oct 06 2006 at 7:34pm | IP Logged
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Karen,
I don't do written work every day with my dc - and my youngest is 10! 
Maybe you could drop expectations for daily work - and work on Explode the Code, etc just a few days a week?
We spread our stuff out over the week and over our life - and it seems to work. I'd tend to try the same with your younger dc - to cover some of what you feel needs to be covered wrt written work while keeping up a positive attitude towards work and allowing for life learning/real learning/living books.
Just one suggestion..
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Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
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Kelly
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| Posted: Oct 07 2006 at 1:29am | IP Logged
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I feel your pain  My 7 and 9 yo are somewhat in this mode. They always play BEAUTIFULLY when school is going on, and tailspin into fighting AFTER school hours. Hmmmmm. Wish I had an easy answer. My 9 yo has speech challenges, and isn't a language kinda kid-tho very smart. He has fought me about doing phonics with such determination that I dumped it completely for a while, and told him no subject was worth ruining our relationship. When he wanted to learn to read, and wouldn't fight me, then we'd work on it again... Finally, at 9, he decided (or was shamed into by his brothers) that he wanted to read and has been much better. This same pattern occurred with ds11, who is now a voracious reader.
Do they resent doing things like lapbooks? This is an easy way to do some stealth schoolwork.
Kelly in FL
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mom2mpr
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| Posted: Oct 07 2006 at 7:27am | IP Logged
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You ladies can always sense what I need. I just returned from my morning walk with the pup and had written the same type of post in my head 
My ds is 8 and I also have a dd who is 3.
I am glad I can come here and get support and ideas because anywhere else I mention these issues, ds needs to go to school
Just wondering Kelly, if you can switch your day around .and use the good playtime to your advantage? I found my dc play best right before supper and sometimes even after. They fight all day before that-go figure. I get a few of my things done then.
Looking forward to more ideas, but this is my new plan:
I was going to try to go down to one subject a day(alternate math 2 days with LA one, because ds needs work in math) and work on attitude and chores for a few weeks, and also throw a trip to the zoo in there I'll let you know how it goes. I also was going to fill them up with lots of playtime with me because we have had a rough couple of years and I have had to push them away a lot. Something tells me I need to "repair" some relationships and then things will get better. I am hoping I am right. Wish me luck 
Anne
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stefoodie
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Hi Karen, your kids are younger than mine (boys 10 and 7) so I don't know if this will help, but of course you can keep it in mind for when they're a bit older.
What I've done is set up a "schedule" which we print out weekly (a spreadsheet and they check each subject as they do it).
On the schedule there are requirements on the top part -- Latin with the family (daily), Math with Mom (daily), Religion with Mom (daily) and Piano lessons with Mom (once a week).
The second part includes all the other subjects -- Reading, Copywork/Narration/Blogging, Science, History. They HAVE TO DO the ones at the top, but usually with breaks in between, like we'll do Latin then have a 5-10 minute break then go back and do Math, except on days when they just want to "get everything over with".
The daily requirements (top part) are usually over by lunchtime. After lunch my 15-yo still has daily required stuff, but the boys pretty much are free to do what they want (shhh, don't tell my 15-yo ). Play, read, etc. They have free reading and required reading -- the required reading means it has to come from their basket -- which I fill with selections for history, science, etc. every week. I have recommendations on the checklist for what day to do what, so history is MWF, Science is TTh, etc. but it's not a strict rule.
The thing that motivates them to do their lessons (at least right now) is computer time. They get 15 minutes a day of computer play if all their lessons are done, if they were done with a good attitude, and their 3 "chores of the day" are completed. (usually cleaning their room plus one monthly household chore and one weekly chore -- the monthly chore gets ignored most days so now I'm thinking of adding "do your monthly chore" to the list)
When the 10-year-old was 8-9, he wasn't that motivated by the reward -- computer time. So there were days when he just won't do things. But the 7-yo is VERY motivated, and often will try to do everything early so he's done and can play. So this in turn motivates the 10-yo.
Recently I added a new rule -- the lessons have to be done by 4 pm for them to earn the computer play time -- so I have time for other things like laundry, cooking, cleaning house, problogging, etc. What was happening before was they put off everything 'til the last minute so while I'm preparing dinner they're bugging me to do their narration with them. Now they scramble to get things done on time.
I also allow for lots of flexibility. E.g., sometimes they'll come to me and ask, mom, if I read this book, what will it count as? (yes, they still end their sentences with a proposition ) And I'll say that can be your history book for the day, or if it's the 10-yo I'll add another tied requirement, e.g., yes, you may use that book for science as long as you do 5 lines of narration either orally or on your blog, or copy 5 sentences from the book and it will count as copywork.
Sometimes life gets in the way (like yesterday when we spent most of the day in the hospital) -- so they're only required to do 50% of their lessons, the ones they don't need Mom for, AND be nice to their little sister and follow big sis' authority. The idea of working for a goal/earning something -- in this case computer time -- really works out well in this household. Not 100% but good enough.
PS One other thing that works for us. Because most afternoons are spent in play, fighting/troublemaking is bound to occur (esp. with a bossy 4-yo); I take these moments as opportunities to separate them and get them back on task. Additional chores are also given when they won't stop fighting. Hubby is of the thinking that boys need MORE productive activity, not less, when they're bored or don't want to cooperate. After the change in my boys, I tend to agree.
PPS Threatening with sending them to public school usually works too
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stef
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Leonie
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Playing first - free time, computer time, after chores and breakfast - helps us. My kids are more settled after they have free time and physical play/stuff - more willing to have a snack and sit down to read together ( or do whatever).
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Leonie in Sydney
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ladybugs
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I find that if we ride bikes or walk in the morning, there is a greater sense of cooperation in the day.
For example, a week ago Fri we went to walk to the grocery store. We live about 1 mile away.
There's a lovely greenbelt in our neighborhood, so we took this route and we saw ducks, geese, turtles, butterflies, dead fish, etc....
We made our purchase, walked to a park on the greenbelt and after 45 minutes playing...we walked home.
Then we did lunch and there was a calm...after lunch they did some math and journaling.
Then we read and played outside later in the day.
My children and I seem to need a lot of physical activity....is this a type personality?
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Maria P
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mom2mpr
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Yes, yes!!!
We walk every morning too!! Even in the rain--not lightning though! I do try to get math and religion done before though, while they eat breakfast, because we do have a leetle problem getting back inside-well, except when it is raining, it is a little easier those days. Then dd needs me for nap and next thing you know it is 4pm!!!
But, my kids need a lot of physical release--and me too, though I tire a lot faster!
I heard that, especially for preschool kids, activity build brains. So, I try to provide it yet keep up with older ds's academic goals.
Anne
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Karen T
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| Posted: Oct 08 2006 at 10:19am | IP Logged
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ALmom wrote:
I don't do everyday with my children under 7 - they need the playtime and the opportunity for eyes to develop. Perhaps take a week or two break - declare it a Fall Break or an All Saints break (see sneak in the liturgical year) and then see what happens at the end of the break. After that you can reassess. During the break focus on obedience, chores, noticing when they make a mess and cleaning up after themselves. That will be invaluable in the long run. Just an idea.
Janet |
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Actually, part of the problem may be that we don't have a regular routine. I work all day Tues and Thurs and dh is home with them, but doesn't do anything school related with them. So, then when I'm home I want to get some things done, but they think it's playtime and resent my directions.
I *am* planning to take a break for a week or two as you suggested while I think things through and look for other ways to accomplish our goals. I was thinking maybe if I could find some good games that would teach the phonics while they played. I have some bingo type games that go along with Phonics Pathways (which we also have but didn't work as well as the Code books for them) but they get old fast. Any great phonics games to recommend (not software)? i'm pretty uncreative myself.
Karen T
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Karen T
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| Posted: Oct 08 2006 at 10:27am | IP Logged
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Kelly wrote:
Do they resent doing things like lapbooks? This is an easy way to do some stealth schoolwork.
Kelly in FL |
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I'm afraid I just don't "get" lapbooks, despite seeing lots of examples online and having the Big Book of Books, etc. We do, however, have alphabet notebooks for each of the youngers, with tabbed dividers for each letter. They put magazine pictures, etc on the first page with the correct letter, then file any pages of letter work they get from various things like Jan Brett's pages, some I print from Start Write, etc. So they both get the starting sound thing but that's it for ds.
Karen T
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Karen T
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| Posted: Oct 08 2006 at 10:40am | IP Logged
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Part of my concern with getting things done is that I was worried about what dh would think since ds is already "behind" what the public school kids are doing. He was reluctant in the beginning to try homeschooling with our now 13 yo ds (this is his 3rd year of hs after ps) but has been convinced by the results. But unschooling is a big jump and I was afraid he'd think I was just being lazy in teaching them. but we sat down and talked about it, and on his own he said he thought it was much more important for the kids to have lots of time outside, etc. than to learn to sound out words right now. I was really surprised to hear him say this, since he never reads any of the homeschooling books, etc. I've brought home, but I'll take it! So at least the pressure is off there. Now I just have to fight my own inner voice saying ds should be reading by now!
Another part of it is I don't want the kids to think that just b/c they don't want to do something, they can get away with it. so maybe working more on obedience in all areas for awhile is in order.
Karen T
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Patty LeVasseur
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stefoodie wrote:
What I've done is set up a "schedule" which we print out weekly (a spreadsheet and they check each subject as they do it).
The thing that motivates them to do their lessons (at least right now) is computer time. They get 15 minutes a day of computer play if all their lessons are done, if they were done with a good attitude, and their 3 "chores of the day" are completed.
Recently I added a new rule -- the lessons have to be done by 4 pm for them to earn the computer play time -- so I have time for other things like laundry, cooking, cleaning house, problogging, etc.
PPS Threatening with sending them to public school usually works too |
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Wow, Stef. This is exactly what I do. But do you know how long it took me to figure this out--why couldn't you have posted this five years ago . I completely agree about putting a "deadline" for getting it done in order to earn computer time. That made a huge difference around here.
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Patty
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: unschooling by default?
