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Martha
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| Posted: Sept 11 2006 at 8:23pm | IP Logged
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or are in process of highschool...
What would you have done differently in academics in the middle school years? What do you think would have made high school easier or would have been of general benefit if you had done it?
Focusing on writing, pushing further out of the nest, or what????
I'm not really too worried about being able to "do" those later years. I do worry about over looking a "key ingredient" and having them feel I failed them in the education I provided when they graduate. What do your older kids say they feel they needed more of during that time?
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Martha
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ALmom
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| Posted: Sept 13 2006 at 2:22am | IP Logged
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One thing I notice is making sure that our independent learners do know how to be attentive to detail, follow directions and adjust to some of the more schoolish things. I know our Latin tutor just gave his first quiz in Latin. It is a class full of very bright students - many of whom have taught themselves many things. The tutor was so astonished by the quiz because from first to last, every single one of them failed to read the directions. He asked for every form of the verb and they all simply gave one form. He actually thought that perhaps his instructions were unclear -and reread them only to wonder more about how they missed it.
Now, this is not a huge deal. I'm sure that everyone in the class will get a wake up call and not repeat this mistake. I do think it is good to give a gentle introduction to this type of thing in upper middle school. Also it is worth doing an occassional standardized test for the same reason. If they are planning on college, they will certainly have to take the SAT or ACT so it makes sense that they don't get thrown off simply because they have never done one. Little things are funny. Our daughter heard 10 minutes for the test and raced through putting down vocabulary words - now she knows that taking a few seconds to read directions is well worth the time.
Also if the teacher says - use pen, put 3 spaces between lines, etc. - you'd better do it even if you don't see much point in it.  I guess in middle school, I see a need to get a bit more rigorous in demands that we do things as I instruct (not necessarily in every subject all the time - but enough so they get the idea) with some things requiring that they read directions and meet deadlines.
Janet
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Martha
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| Posted: Sept 13 2006 at 6:14am | IP Logged
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Oh, I completely see that!
so.. how would parents strongly encourage following directions and what would be an effective .. don't want to say punishment.. response? that would make them not want to repeat doing their work that way?
I try to use positive reenforcement with work, but when it's hard or they feel I'm nit-picking, sometimes they would rather just accept a bad grade or whatever and be "done with it!". Usually they have a very positive attitude, but it's hard when at times to keep that attitude. What do you ladies do to correct this issue?
My oldest has the worst problems in this area b/c he has sensory issues that make it very hard to notice details in general. He's getting better, but I need help or at least encouragement in improving this area for him. Esp. has he starts to enter more demanding upper grades.
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ALmom
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| Posted: Sept 13 2006 at 12:57pm | IP Logged
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Martha,
I have one son who just doesn't want to be bothered with capitilization and punctuation - he'll do it for a grammar lesson, so I know he knows how, but he won't do it when answering basic questions in other subjects. Now I require that he answer in complete sentences (this is a 4th grader so fully capable of this) and use at least a capital letter to start the sentence and end the sentence. Now at first he ignored me, and we marked things wrong and he just corrected it. Then it occured to me that what he really was doing was rushing through my assignments so he could do his stuff (legos, science whatever struck his fancy that day). So the solution was simple. I warned him that I would no longer allow a simple erasure and correction but that if he did not do as I instructed, he would have to re-write the sentence. I haven't had problems since.
I like workbooks occassionally because these often have short instructions at the top that must be read - little things like underline the subject, circle the direct object, etc. and correct the punctuation and capitilization on a sentence. Well my dc consistently ignore at least one part of the instructions - and at first I just point it out to them. But if the lesson isn't learned then I have to make them do something else. Some of my dc are sensitive to mistakes and being marked "wrong" is sufficient. Others of mine see it as a way to just coast - and I have to make sure that the correction process takes more time than doing it correctly the first time .
I am also beginning to think that giving oral instructions to an older child - upper middle, for instance - that I want a final draft of a paper in cursive, in pen and double spaced by a set date. Then I have to remember to ask for the paper on the set date. I know with my dc, they suddenly work at being attentive if they know that we will keep working on following directions until it is learned. So as long as they are not paying attention to my instructions we'll have to keep doing new assignments until the lesson is learned. Ie they realize that they can do their own stuff as soon as they can demonstrate a capability to follow my instructions. (I will give them hints, for instance, like if a teacher gives oral instructions be sure to write it down and then use that as a part of your checklist when you proofread your draft and go to make the final paper. Keep a record of these things in one, organized place so that you have this checklist for this teacher.) I think it is helpful for them to get used to an occassional other instructor, whether it is a proctor from a homeschool cover, a co-op class or some other private lessons. With me they figure me out pretty quickly and then don't have to pay attention as much, whereas with a new teacher you have to figure them out (which teaches some attentiveness).
I guess if I didn't want to delegate anything, I could make a game of it and come up with different names and characters for myself - and adjust from time to time what I want - like this teacher wants only black ink, this character wants columns down a page. These are not essential to the learning itself - but essential life skills. Even if you don't go to college, you are going to have a boss and you'd better pay attention to how the boss wants things done. I think it is good discipline if it is done in a fun sort of way.
With our daughter in Latin, I pointed out that he wants things a certain way and he figures they are old enough to remember what he tells them so I'd write up a checklist of what he wants. He wants triple space (space for them to make corrections, and space for him to make comments), pen, and a certain column format that he taught them in the first class. He told them an organized way to make notes - and he expects them to use it. He is German born and very rule oriented. It is really good for this class of kids that have never ever been in a classroom before. We are discovering that the students are rising to his expectations. The big thing is that he is very clear about what he wants - but he only says it once and will give 0s if not done how he wants (though, so far he has allowed them to redo to the correct form for a better grade). Now, at home, my dc probably wouldn't take the 0s too seriously (from the Latin teacher they do) but I simply require an entire re-do (provided I was clear) and that generally takes care of it.
I sound like a tyrant - and really I'm not. I haven't done this enough which is why some of my children are coasting except in the area of prime interest. I have become more of a stickler - but we laugh about it, and I don't do it in every subject all the time. I pick one area and focus on that. The one thing I know I have failed, is to give specific parameters from time to time for a handed in assignment like a paper that must be double spaced. I also tend to be unclear in my instructions before the assignment - so I have to give clear instructions. I cannot demand a re-do if I am assuming they know something - unless I told them clearly at the beginning of the year that I want all final paper's in ink (or typed) and double spaced. They need to be paying enough attention to keep track of what you have told them (and parent teacher probably ought to have their own checklist of everything they have instructed said child about so that you do call them to account for ignoring your instructions. It is so easy for me to be scatterbrained with so many that the dc have learned they can usually get away with a lot.)
Our first attempt at a co-op has been enlightening too. It is hard for our elementaries to realize that they must stay in the room with the class. They are used to wandering up or going off to something else as soon as they are finished - so they are learning some group cooperation. I think having a good balance is necessary. I'd hate for my dc to be always waiting in a classroom - but they do need to learn to do it from time to time. And, yes, you do wait in line at lots of things - but that is different than sitting quietly while everyone else finishes their lab. We are not harsh with the littles, of course. But even the older students have trouble realizing that they cannot just leave Biology lab as soon as they are done. They are great kids and it is only taking a little bit of diligence on our part to make sure they learn some of these things - and they learn very quickly so it is not a huge deal.
I will say my oldest in college had us panicked because she never read the for deposit on a rebate and thought this company she had never ordered from was sending her a bill. So even if they haven't had to look at all these details, they do eventually learn it. Of course, a bit of embarrassment that we thought someone had ended up with her checks (because she hadn't listened carefully to my instructions to pick them up at the bank and showed up at the post office and just told me they weren't there) and then she was getting this odd bill so we were thinking identity theft - and she certainly was a bit embarrassed and I doubt will ever make the mistake again.
Janet
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ALmom
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| Posted: Sept 13 2006 at 1:01pm | IP Logged
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Martha:
Sorry - I just noticed your comment about sensory integration issues. I do know that when I make demands, they have to be at a child's capability - but I can underestimate that easily. However, I don't know how to suggest things for this particular case as I have no experience here. Perhaps teaching him to make a list of instructions that he can refer to to check and, of course, being gentle in the enforcement. Ie with a child with difficulties, and not just trying to get away with sloppy work, I'd not make the corrections as long or hard to do.
Janet
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Martha
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| Posted: Sept 13 2006 at 5:23pm | IP Logged
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Janet -
No, no, you're recommendations are very similiar to what I do now and it's the only reason he's progressed as wonderfully as he has. He has never never had enough issues to get medically diagnosed or labeled, imho. Just enough to make life a wee bit harder, kwim? He NEEDS constant structure and consistancy or everything falls apart. The older he gets, the fewer the times he falls apart, but it's still not a natural reflex for him yet.
Thanks you for the ideas.
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Martha
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: for those who have done K - 12
