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MarieC
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| Posted: Aug 27 2006 at 4:23am | IP Logged
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I don't know if this is the correct place to post this question. I've been going back and forth about whether our daughter is progressing all right and have finally decided to ask you all.
This child is our 2nd and is the middle of 3 girls (with two younger brothers). She just turned 6 in June and she's a sweet girl and in many ways seems very "normal". The things that have got me worried are: she is very "flighty", really doesn't read much at all - can do some but often starts guessing at words rather than sound them out; and her coloring & cutting aren't too great.
I've always worked at not comparing her to our oldest who is super bright. I've always thought of this child as an ordinary child (in terms of things she can do...she's certainly EXTRA-ordinary to us!!). She didn't progress too far in reading last year (her K year) and frankly I didn't work with her a ton because she just didn't seem really ready.
I've gotten concerned lately though because her 5 year old cousin and 4 year old sister are starting to pass her up. The 4 year old cuts and handles scissors better and I think she may be reading by her birthday next spring.
Is there a reason to worry? If so, how do I check this out. I'm so sorry to have this "ramble-y" post. I just love her so much and want the best for her and I wonder if I'm failing her or if she has a problem that we aren't working on.
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Marie
mom to 6
dds-98, 00, 02 and 09 & dss-03 and 06
Out in the Orchard
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Lisbet
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Marie
If it's worth anything, you know my Abigail, and she's very much the same way. She is 9 and not a strong reader, she's just not begining to read without being told once in awhile. She's also what I would call 'flighty' starting many tasks but not completing any well. I was just thinking about her last night in terms of how she would fare in 'school'. She would be lost in a classroom of many other students, not bright enough for extra attention, not struggling enough for some either. She would slip by, her teachers would never have the time of resources to know her well enough to foster her God-given talents.
Because you know her, all of her, not only her academic abilities, you know she is indeed "EXTRA-ordinary".
I also know the temptation to compare siblings. My oldests is super bight also, I have to work with him very little, he's very self-motivated and book wise.
I don't know if I was much help, but I think it may just be her personality. Maybe if you pray and discern which virtues to help cultivate in her to accentuate her strong points and encourage her to work on those 'weaker' ones??
See ya at Mass in a few hours!  YAY!! Latin mass today!
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Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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momwise
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My 6yo isn't reading at all. In the last few days we have begun to dwell on a few sounds (d-a-d, m-o-m, a-n-d, etc.) and when I see them in a story I let him sound them out and read them. We haven't even cracked open the reading lessons for this child. He is into being a super hero right now .
He is good with crayons and scissors but I have others who definitely could not handle them well at age 6. You could just work on the skills she excels at for a little while (large motor skills, memorization, clay sculpting, block building ,etc). If she can't color well inside the lines, let her paint with large brushes and paper.
Her cousins aren't really "passing her up." They're just better at cutting and coloring. She's better at lots of stuff too. Helping her develop those things will give her the confidence to try more later.
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Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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marianne
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My 6 yo ds is doing his K year this year. He knows a lot of his letter sounds, but has yet to sound out a full word. He doesn't even really DO handwriting - we're working through the HWT K book, but it's a struggle. He doesn't take it seriously. He's been doing Suzuki violin for 2 years and has not mastered the Twinkles yet - whereas it took my older two 4 months/6 months respectively to reach that point. We keep plugging away at things though, and I work with him some every day on all of this. He forces me to stick with HIS pace though! 
I have no doubts about his intelligence or ability - he's just a late bloomer when it comes to school readiness. I don't consider him less bright than my older two, who have taken to school earlier, but just on a different timetable than they were on. Luckily, ds is tiny for his age - he looks like he could still be 4, so other people don't expect that much from him!
I'd say your dd sounds like she is doing fine for her. It will all even out in the end.
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ALmom
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For those interested in seeing a suggestion in how to distinguish between simply normal variation in readiness and a real problem, you may want to check out the pavevision.org website. They also have great advice on what to look for if you want to have a really good, pre - school vision exam.
The problem is, unless you are aware of the vision type things that can occur, it is easy to miss real problems or you can panic and push when there isn't a problem.
There really is a very normal variety of ages at which children are ready for school/bookwork and the best thing to do in this case is not worry, spend lots of fun time reading out loud to them, doing gross motor activities and move into things when the child is ready. The child that reads at 4 is not necessarily brighter than the child that reads at 6, 8, or 9. There is a great leveling that occurs later. The big thing is not to push before the child is ready.
However, there is such a thing as a vision problem and it is much more pleasant for both parent and child to address this early. Therefore, you don't want to ignore a problem either. You don't want to jump at a problem and assume one is there just because a child at 6 is not reading, or cutting or coloring in the lines. But those things will also happen with a child that is suffering from an eye muscle weakness problem which is correctable - and it will simply not get significantly better with practice doing those things, nor will it improve by simply waiting another year.
We've had early and later readers in our house - our early reader is not a big reader now, though she is quite capable. We've had one child without any vision problems - the rest have had some sort of vision problem (even our early reader who bogged down at 4th grade and didn't seem like she would ever move to chapter books had an undetected vision problem. We finally detected and worked on her problem around age 16, shortly after getting diagnosis for dd #2 who we kept thinking simply wasn't ready and waiting - till we finally put too many signs together and went with our gut which said vision). We now test all of our children before I begin doing any informal school with them (right around school age). It really is quite simple to be tested for vision problems if there is any doubt - and if you have vision insurance and wait to go when you are eligible for an eye exam, then you are not talking much expense either (unless there is a problem). In light of this, I would follow the pave guidelines and have a simple but extensive eye exam and know for sure what you are dealing with. Then you can really relax if there isn't anything wrong - and begin early correction before the child will hardly notice if there is a problem.
This is just my 2 cents from experiencing the difference between working with a 6 yo, a 10 yo and 16 yo in therapy. The 16 yo hated it, had to work awfully hard to get gains and has already had years of frustration that could be avoided. The 10 yo is about like the 16 yo except that the results come a bit faster and the frustration hasn't been building as long. The 6 yo thinks its all fun and games and yet gets the benefits and improvements - and hasn't had to deal with years of thinking they are dumb because they just cannot seem to do what everyone else seems to do easily (these dc notice even when parents/teachers do no comparing - because they are bright kids! Sometimes the kids are so bright, they come up with interesting ways to compensate and then hit a sudden wall.)
Janet
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BrendaPeter
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Janet,
I'm so glad you chimed in on pavevision.org. I've had my suspicions about our oldest for years & didn't have his vision tested until he was 11 1/2!! (What was I thinking?!) We found out he had a pretty major convergence problem which has improved greatly with prisms. My point being that I wish we would have had him tested sooner.
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Brenda (mom to 6)
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MarieC
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| Posted: Aug 28 2006 at 7:48am | IP Logged
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Thank you all for your comments and advice....you've brought me more peace.
Lisa...thank you for mentioning Abigail--so often you hear of late/reluctant readers being boys. It's reassuring to hear of a girl. Also, I've always seen Abigail as so capable....it gives me a lot of hope for Annie.
Janet...thank you for the website. I've looked at it briefly and the physical symptoms don't seem to be there for my daughter but the performance clues do so it may be worth checking out. Am I correct in assuming that a regular ophthalmologist won't check for these problem areas? My girls have had regular vision checks, in fact my oldest is quite nearsighted.
Once again, thanks to each of you.
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Marie
mom to 6
dds-98, 00, 02 and 09 & dss-03 and 06
Out in the Orchard
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Marybeth
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Marie,
At one of our last homeschooling meetings for the year, a Mom mentioned she was using Brain Gym for her late/reluctant reader (her dd age 8). She was literally at her wits end in trying to help her dd gain neccessary reading skills. She learned about Brain Gym at a homeschooling conference in the fall of 2005.
Brain gym consists of excerises for helping to cross the midline section of your brain and body. I thought it was a wonderful way to help little ones focus. This woman could not say enough wonderful things about it helping her dd. They do the excercises each day before school and it takes only 15 minutes.
I don't have the information anymore from the meeting. Sorry...I went on a huge recycling kick!!!!
I know they have a website so Google will help!
Just thought I would pass along the info.
Marybeth
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shartlesville
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Hi Marie,
I had/have a late reader also. Kate did not start reading at all until she was 9. 
We tried all kinds of different programs: Alphaphonics, Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Lessons, Hooked on Phonics, etc. None of them seemed to work. She just didn't "get it." She would read two or three words and instead of sounding out the next one she would guess something totally off the wall. For example: cat, sat, hat, dog. I even tried to explain that they all had the same ending, she only needed to sound out the first letter. It didn't help.  It was quite frustrating for both of us, especially since Julia (who is a year younger) taught herself to read at 5.
I finally just backed off and did not formally try to teach her to read until she was nine. It finally clicked and she has been reading ever since. Even though she was not reading independantly, she was still expected to do schoolwork appropriate to her intellectual level. She did most things orally, was read to by others, and was required to do "copywork," etc.
She is still a slow reader but is steadily improving. Her biggest frustration right now is that Emily and Julia have eached finished 3 required books and she just finished the first one (for the new school session). She didn't understand how they could finish a book so quickly when it takes her so much longer. I explained to her that they have been reading for many more years and that speed comes with practice.
Kate is very athletic. She has excelled at every sport she has played, basketball, soccer, etc. The other girls are much less, shall we say, gifted in athletics.
Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. I would definitely do the eye exam in case that is an issue but I wouldn't worry too much if she isn't yet ready to read. It sounds like she is too interested in seeing and doing rather than reading.
Blessings,
Krisann
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Krisann
DH Cris;
DC John, Elizabeth, Lilyann ^i^, Emily, Kate, Julia, Sam, & Jack;
DGC Kira, Auston, Travis, & Sarah.
My Blog: Isla del Esperanza
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TracyQ
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Marie,
Janet gave you some great advice. There is another very helpful website in case you think it could be more than just a *late reader*. It's Children's Vision
Our son, now 14 years old was what we thought was a late reader, until I realized that he was decoding single words just fine, and seemed to have the phonics down, etc. He wasn't progressing, was reading with throat stops in (not fluent), and was losing a word or a line here and there. He loved to be read to, but never picked up a book to read. So I became suspicious.
I looked into this, and was referred to a behaviorial optometrist by our optometrist who is specialized in this, to evaluate him, and test for vision learning problems. He was diagnosed with a vision tracking problem, a vision sequencing problem (not able to tell you what he wants to, because he can't picture it as well in his head before speaking it), and a problem with writing, which was a vision learning problem as well. His speed is very slow, even now, going into 9th grade.
We had weekly vision learning therapy (one hour per week), with daily therapy at home for 6 months. Zach is doing SO MUCH BETTER now! After going through the therapy, he picked up *The Lord of the Rings*, and read the entire series! He wasn't even able to read level three readers before therapy! I cried with joy! 
He still has some difficulties, but we haven't been doing some of the exercises we really should be doing. But overall, he's come quite far, and is doing quite well! We're SO PROUD of him! 
I share this with you, not to alarm you, or tell you your daughter definitely has a vision learning problem. I just wanted to share our experience in case it may help you. It could definitely be that she's a later reader, but in case it's more than that, having knowledge of what else it could be would be a good thing. The earlier you catch a problem, the better.
It's helpful to have knowledge, I found.
If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask.
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Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
 homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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ALmom
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| Posted: Aug 28 2006 at 7:11pm | IP Logged
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Marie:
No, opthomologists don't look for these - so it is the optometrist. But not all optometrists check for all the areas either. You really have to make sure that you have an optometrist that tests for more than acuity and let them know that you want them to do a learning related vision exam (this is usually a tiny bit longer than standard refraction/ eye chart testing and includes checking their vision at near distances as well as distance, testing convergence ability, ability to move easily between far and near focus, tracking smoothly, etc Our optometrist looked very closely at her actual eye movements when following a simple pencil at near distance, including when being asked a question - her movements were jerky in both cases but really went wild when she was asked something simple like what is 1 +1. He also tested her ability across the midline). The pavevision.org website actually lists some of the kinds of tests that should be included in an eye exam for children prior to school entry. You can ask any office about these tests before you schedule an appointment to make sure you have an optometrist familiar with these kinds of things.
The first 5 eye exams our dd had with other optometrists, we were told that she had perfect vision. One of these actually tests for our local schools so seemed like a logical choice. This one knew a tiny bit - but not enough to be helpful. It made a difference when we found the right optometrist.
Janet
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momwise
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I didn't even think of the vision testing, nor the Sensory Perception tests we used for one of our dc, for which occupational therapy is very successful (this would be for the motor skills: down the road aways).
However, slow reading progress and cutting skills in a child who just turned 6 are not at all indicative of a problem. That's well within normal development. It's not to say there's not a vision problem, which early testing will benefit.
If you don't find a problem you might like Dr. Moore's Better Late than Early. It was great for helping me relax, has lots of good research findings and gives some good developmental guidelines for academics and early childhood.
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Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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angiesherm
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Hi, I have a 6 year old also. He's the middle child and it is hard to not compare him to his older brother. I do want to tell you that I have been having the same problem w/him because he's been guessing at words also. My 8 year old picked up reading very easily, but not my 6 yr. old. But, every child is different. I have to keep telling myself that!!! It will come with time. Don't stress about it.
Good luck,
Angela
wife to Dave,
Mom to Brett (8), Ryan (6) and Hallie (1)
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MarieC
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| Posted: Aug 30 2006 at 10:40pm | IP Logged
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angiesherm wrote:
Hi, I have a 6 year old also. He's the middle child and it is hard to not compare him to his older brother. I do want to tell you that I have been having the same problem w/him because he's been guessing at words also. My 8 year old picked up reading very easily, but not my 6 yr. old. But, every child is different. I have to keep telling myself that!!! It will come with time. Don't stress about it.
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This sounds just like us...thanks for your encouraging words!
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Marie
mom to 6
dds-98, 00, 02 and 09 & dss-03 and 06
Out in the Orchard
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Is My 6 Yr. Old OK??
