| Author | |
teachingmyown
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 20 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5128
|
| Posted: July 11 2006 at 5:15pm | IP Logged
|
 |
|
This is really a two part question.
First, how have you convinced your husband's about unschooling in general? I brought up the subject and my textbook memorizing husband looked at me as if I were insane. I think it was the first time in our homeschooling that he has outright told me no. More specifically, I had tried to convince him first about unschooling in general, but then about unschooling my 15yr old ds in particular. My husband believes that this child would literally do nothing for the next three years if given the chance. Many of you have been helpful to me in regards to this child on the teen forum, so perhaps you could give me input.
But, my question, not just about this child, is do you believe that there are children who cannot be unschooled? Are there kids who will do nothing for years? Children who show no interest in anything and make no effort to learn or pursue an interest? Could this be the case for a highschooler who has not been given this freedom from the start?
I am trying to read The Teenage Liberation Handbook. The author bugs me a little. However, she had convinced me that any child/teen, given the freedom and independence, will want to make the best life they can for themselves. But I can't convince my husband and now I am wondering if he could be right.
I was really hoping that giving independence and responsiblity to a difficult teen would be helpful in solving problems.
I know this is really convuluted. Too many voices vying for my attention right now! 
Hopefully, it is clear enough.
Thanks,
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
lapazfarm
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 21 2005
Location: Alaska
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6082
|
| Posted: July 11 2006 at 5:36pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
OK, I may be way off, but I do not believe that unschooling is for everyone. But I don't belive that ANY educational method is right for everyone.  Every child is different and homeschooling allows us the freedom to tailor our materials and methods to meet the particular needs of each child. We all know this. So, to answer your question directly- yes, I believe there are children who cannot be unschooled.
My dh was like yours in a way. When I decided I wanted to look into unschooling, he was reluctant at first. I found that the reluctance came from a lack of understanding of the principles behind unschooling-it is pretty "out there" after all. I asked him to read up on it and we talked alot about it, looking at the pros and cons. After a time he agreed that it could work in principle and may be even ideal, he just wasn't sure it was right for our son or, quite frankly, for me. But he thought the only way to know was to give it a trial run. I called it my "unschooling experiment." Guess what. It didn't work for us. But at least now I KNOW rather than just guessing. My unschooling tendencies are just tendencies now and I'm no longer wondering and doubting.
Anyway, all that to say that husbands can change their minds, AND you can always try it over the summer and see how it goes.
In my very uninformed opinion, though, from what you are posting about your ds in the other threads, I wonder if this is the right time to "loosen the reins" in this area when you are getting ready to tighten them in others? It may send some mixed messages. Unschooling is about trusting your child to take responsibility for his own education, and you've expressed doubts that he has earned your trust (or has outright broken it)in other areas.
I don't know, maybe I am way off base here, but your dh may have a good point. Trust with teens is such a tricky thing.
__________________
Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cay Gibson
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 16 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5193
|
| Posted: July 11 2006 at 5:41pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Molly,
Are you planning to keep him home this year?
or is it still *up in the air*?
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cay Gibson
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 16 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5193
|
| Posted: July 11 2006 at 5:52pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I'm beginning to think that if the style learning we all do after we get out of high school/college is considered *unschooling* then I'd say it works pretty well for most people. Your son may very well blossom in character and trustworthiness and responsibility once he's out of school and on his own (so to speak).
Still, Theresa brings up some very good points concerning "loosening the reins" vs. "tightening the reins."
I ended up allowing my oldest ds to unschool his senior year, with a couple of requirements.
(1) He had to take a night class at the vo-tech school
(2) he had to finish the Trig section of his Saxon book
(3) he had to write a few required essays---(subject matter recommended by Mom)
(4) he had to finish his Apologia Chemistry book
(5) he had to read a couple of novels and discuss them with me.
But the year wasn't "planned" that way. It just happened. And we were both satisfied.
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Sarah
Forum All-Star
Joined: Aug 17 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1624
|
| Posted: July 11 2006 at 6:48pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I don't have much to offer since I'm behind you in life, with a 10yo as my oldest.
The only thing I'd say is to maybe call it something else. Out here the word "unschooling" is like a swear word. I wouldn't even drop it among my hs crowd.
However, many people agree on that style of learning without calling it such. Just a thought.
__________________
Six boys ages 16, 14, 11, 7, 5, 2 and one girl age 9
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Leonie
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2831
|
| Posted: July 12 2006 at 2:27am | IP Logged
|
|
|
teachingmyown wrote:
| First, how have you convinced your husband's about unschooling in general? I brought up the subject and my textbook memorizing husband looked at me as if I were insane. Thanks, |
|
|
When we first started homeschooling, I read aloud parts of John Holt's 'Teach Your Own' aloud to my dh. He was sold. It is a very clear, expressive book, from an ex-teacher.
BTW, John Holt was not a supporter of leaving kids to be and not requiring anything. While supporting unschooling and interest inspired learning, he also acknowledged the role of the parent. The stories in 'Teach Your Own' describe families who do some required stuff and some non required stuff ( if that makes sense!).
I don't have the updated version of the book, with notes from Pat Farenga, but I have heard that it is good...
__________________
Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
StephanieA
Forum Pro
Joined: May 11 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 394
|
| Posted: July 12 2006 at 7:24am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I did about what Cay did with her oldest with my oldest his junior and senior years. He dual-enrolled in college with his math and a writing course and did some (read- very few) subjects here. The only real motivation was the promise of passing a CLEP at the end of his studies and a decent ACT score. Sigh.
Son #2 is different, more internally motivated and more inclined to unschooling (or so I hoped for this coming year). However, I asked him yesterday about how detailed he wanted his fall schedule. I was thinking he would say, "Just make a list of stuff you want me to do." No. He wants a daily page count. Sigh. I was hoping this wouldn't be the case He says the detailed schedule motivates him and guides him to know exactly what to do that day in that subject (hardly an unschooling attitude). That said, he does read a lot on his own and investigates things he is interested in. In a way, he also unschools himself in some areas.
My oldest (18) STILL needs a schedule because he can't seem to keep himself busy and not aggravate his silblings or brood about one thing or the other. At this stage of the game, if he was still at home, unschooling would not work for him. I see it work very well for my neighbor's daughter who is his age though.
I have seen my mother unschool...and I am talking the most liberal sense here. Not what Leonie does. This IS teaching my younger brother responsibility but at a heavy academic cost. This was also the case for 2 of my other brothers. If anything also kept my oldest doing something constructive junior and senior years, it was seeing what my brother was going through.
Ideally, I love the concept of unschooling. It is how I teach myself what I want to know. It is the way most adults will learn after college. That said, it does take a certain amount of maturity. Some kids just don't have it. Sometimes what I think some of these guys need is not so much academic work, but meaningful physical work. Years ago, our culture offered more options in this area.
Innovative kids find a way even today, but those less motivated sort of slip through the cracks.
Blessings,
Stephanie
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
marihalojen
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 12 2006
Location: Florida
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1883
|
| Posted: July 12 2006 at 8:03am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Sarah wrote:
| The only thing I'd say is to maybe call it something else. Out here the word "unschooling" is like a swear word. I wouldn't even drop it among my hs crowd. |
|
|
I dropped that word at one of my co-ops, as in 'I think we might unschool next year in Key West, just follow field trips around town letting the new location dictate our school year.' and I was pulled aside, lectured and prayed over by two deeply concerned moms.
Next week, different co-op, different moms and I said the same, changing unschool to child-led and they were full of praise.
After you are done with the Liberation Handbook, you might have your son read it, it is written for teens. It might inspire him to have some input on his education, as in Teen-led education, which might or might not grow into a more unschooled situation depending entirely on your ds and his reactions.
Give him the science requirements for the next year. Can he figure out a way to meet those requirements? (lots of ideas in the Handbook) Would it involve a class? Are there openings? How much would it cost? Would it involve an internship? Would the business be willing? Do you have to apply? On-line or in person? How will time be documented? If it all comes together, can he stick with it for a Quarter?
The thing that shocked me when I read that book as a teen homeschooler was how busy the unschoolers were. And so very responsible for their own education. I found it inspiring and it led to me volunteering in a library, joining the local Public School Marching Band and working at a daycare once a week in the office to see the business side. And this was while still fulfilling Mom's schooling requirements because we were definitely not unschooling according to her!
So, this is a long ramble of a post from someone who does not have a teen but was once a teen homeschooler and has 2 teen sisters who chose this year not to homeschool but join the alternative school in town for a half-day program, interning at a Whaling Institute and a Yoga Center for the other half-day. One works at the Library and the other as a Naturalist on a beach (as in - Miss, can you tell me what this shell is I found? or Is that really a whale out there in the water?)
__________________
~Jennifer
Mother to Mariannna, age 13
The Mari Hal-O-Jen
SSR = Sailing, Snorkling, Reading
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
lapazfarm
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 21 2005
Location: Alaska
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6082
|
| Posted: July 12 2006 at 8:11am | IP Logged
|
|
|
marihalojen wrote:
I dropped that word at one of my co-ops, as in 'I think we might unschool next year in Key West, just follow field trips around town letting the new location dictate our school year.' and I was pulled aside, lectured and prayed over by two deeply concerned moms.
|
|
|
That is TOO funny! And did it help??? Are you now cured of this unschooling affliction?
__________________
Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
marihalojen
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 12 2006
Location: Florida
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1883
|
| Posted: July 12 2006 at 8:47am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Nope! 
__________________
~Jennifer
Mother to Mariannna, age 13
The Mari Hal-O-Jen
SSR = Sailing, Snorkling, Reading
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
teachingmyown
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 20 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5128
|
| Posted: July 12 2006 at 11:27am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thanks for the input. My husband won't read any of the books, but I could pin him down long enough to read some to him. I have been reading The Underground History of Education and highlighting it for this very purpose.
As far as my oldest is concerned, it is still up in the air whether I get to homeschool him or not. It probably wasn't the best time to bring up unschooling with dh as he had already said that I couldn't homeschool this son at all.
I see what you mean, Theresa, about the confusion of lightening up on the one hand and tightening the reins on the other. That's why I asked for input. I tend to be an idealist and only want to believe the best about my kids (and everyone!). So my thoughts were "What if I empower him with his own education and future? Won't he feel more mature and WANT to take charge and make mature decisions? If he feels that everyone is telling him what to do and he is rebelling, would it make sense to put him in charge so there would no need to rebel?"
But as I can see from the various posts, for some kids and most probably this one, that kind of freedom is dangerous if he doesn't already possess the maturity to handle it.
I am still exploring unschooling for the younger kids, but I think I will need to maintain control and structure for this child, whether that means back to public school or enrolling in Seton and making him check off the boxes.
Thanks for the advice and being a sounding board! I am ready to push the homeschooling books aside, put my feet up and finish reading the Hobbit while the kids play around me!
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ALmom
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 18 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3299
|
| Posted: July 12 2006 at 1:44pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I'm not an unschooler - I'm not sure what kind of schooler I am, so I hope you don't mind me posting here this once. I cannot say anything about your homeschooling questions, but I would caution you to listen and respect your husbands headship. You want your ds to respect your (and your dh)authority, it is extremely important that you respect your dh authority as head of the household. Perhaps you should be trying to get insights from your husband to help you understand why he feels so strongly in this area. Respecting his headship doesn't mean not sharing your own ideas and hopes and fears - but there is a difference in attitude and an immense amount of respect - trying to really understand his concerns!
I hope I haven't stepped out of line here. But I can say that decisions made because I kept after my way of doing things, turned out to be the worst decisions. When I have shared my opinions but submitted to my dh strong opinion - those have always come out right and I usually am so grateful I listened very early on.
Janet
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
|
| Posted: Sept 06 2006 at 10:50pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Hi, it was nice to see this board here.. we're more or less unschoolers though we use whatever suits us at the time. We have 6 children girl9, boy8, girl6, girl5, boy3, boy2 and baby due sometime between Thanksgiving and Christmas.
I find convincing my husband or anyone really on a "new" idea is that 1) I have to make sure I'm just providing a way that they can *hear* the information and not just wanting to make them do it my way and 2) figure out how it is they will hear the information.
Different things work.. I like reading or listening to something (and it has to be because I want to read/listen) with dh around, then stopping and telling him about my thoughts on it. Just a simple "hmmm wow, remember when xyz happened? it was just like what he's saying here in my book".
Sometimes it's too much to explain a whole concept. But just a little piece of something.. and then add to it over time. But mostly, the harder I push the information the more likely I am to push people away rather than convince them.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Leonie
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2831
|
| Posted: Sept 09 2006 at 2:17am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Hi JodieLyn,
and welcome! Nice to *see* another "more or less unschooler" on the board.
__________________
Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Willa
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3881
|
| Posted: Sept 09 2006 at 10:37am | IP Logged
|
|
|
JodieLyn wrote:
I find convincing my husband or anyone really on a "new" idea is that 1) I have to make sure I'm just providing a way that they can *hear* the information and not just wanting to make them do it my way and 2) figure out how it is they will hear the information.
Different things work.. I like reading or listening to something (and it has to be because I want to read/listen) with dh around, then stopping and telling him about my thoughts on it. Just a simple "hmmm wow, remember when xyz happened? it was just like what he's saying here in my book".
Sometimes it's too much to explain a whole concept. But just a little piece of something.. and then add to it over time. But mostly, the harder I push the information the more likely I am to push people away rather than convince them. |
|
|
That kind of sounds like a recipe for how to unschool, as well. Welcome, JodieLyn!
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
Forum Locked) 
4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Convincing Dad
