Author | |
pumpkinmom Forum All-Star
Joined: March 28 2012 Location: Missouri
Online Status: Offline Posts: 1028
|
Posted: June 01 2013 at 1:36pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
This is a big rambling, some what complaining, and I just need some help to sort out some stuff kind of post. I'll try to be short and sweet, but not likely. If I need firm words, I can take it, and won't be hurt (I have thick skin).
I was reading on a blog about year-end folders and I thought what a wonderful idea! Now I'm over analyzing our year and school (or maybe I'm not and we need big changes).
I asked my boys the questions that Sarah's kids answered that were on the front of the folders. I got no answers from my kids. There wasn't anything about school they liked, nothing they were looking forward to doing next year, they couldn't tell me anything they want to learn about. My kids hate school! I know they are boys and these type of questions are boring to them.
Looking back at our school year I can see very little progress made. I held both my boys back in math to work on mental math skills and basic math facts. This worked well for my youngest. He hasn't mastered multiplication facts though and we didn't even get to division this year. I thought that my oldest had seen progress, but we put that away the last month of school and worked on fractions (basic stuff) and he tested with a low C at the end. He said he just couldn't remember how to do any of the stuff. I started doing 5 minutes of basic fact review with him last week and since we hadn't done this in a month he is back to where we started last fall. I don't understand! This concerns me! We got no where in grammar or spelling either for both boys. Retention in history and science is very low for both boys. No improvement in handwriting with my youngest and he didn't pick up on cursive this year even though he was looking forward to this. It was harder than he thought and he gave up on it. The only thing both my boys had great progress in was creative writing. And I really just mean they enjoy doing it now will do it without complaining and do it in their free time.
I can't do a year-end folder because we have nothing to show besides some writing. We did the 1000 hours of school required by our state. I don't believe there is anything mentally wrong with my kids or that we are dealing with learning disabilities. I think my oldest has a bad attitude and is lazy. Little brother looks up to big brother and copies everything he does. I have talked to my oldest and haven't gotten anywhere with him about this. He wants to got to public school. I've gone over and over it and prayed much about it and I don't think that is the solution.
I had my boys do standardize testing this year to see if my concerns are valid. I'm waiting on the results for those. I'm considering telling my oldest that he will be repeating sixth grade to see if this motivates him in his studies, but I worry it will cause problems with our relationship and it may discourage him. I'm praying about this. I really don't think he will be ready for high school in two years.
I know that I want to continue homeschooling because I think this is the path that God wants us on, but I really could just throw in the towel at this point. I think it would cause more problems in the long run though. But I do worry that I'm hurting my relationship with my oldest because he is so determined to go to public school. Teaching my kids is exhausting because I have to fight them on everything. I allow them to be involved in planning and I get nothing from them.
Does anyone have any ideas on what I should try next? Summer school starts Monday morning at the public school for two weeks and I'm considering dragging my oldest there to enroll him so that he can get a taste, but it's summer school and nothing near what school is like during the normal year. He may enjoy it and push for school even harder.
I guess my overall questions are what do you do when you are fighting your kids to homeschool and you aren't making in progress academically? Yet you are 99% sure this is the right path.
Clarification 6/7: I wanted to add that I love's Sarah's post and ideas for the year end folder!! I wasn't complaining, comparing her kids to mine, nor did she make me feel discouraged. Some replies made me think that I may have been implying that. I really could have written my post and not even included the link to her blog post. I saw this last year and wanted to start doing these and I still plan to do them. It just when I sat down to make them I had a huge reality check that we didn't make the progress (especially with my oldest) that we should have made this year. I was trying to figure out what went wrong. One bad year is fixable, but we have had two in a row and changes are needed. I'm thankful for Sarah's blog post to remind me of this goal I had to make these folders and to take a really good look at our school.
__________________ Cassie
Homeschooling my little patch of Ds-14 and Ds-10
Tending the Pumpkin Patch
|
Back to Top |
|
|
SeaStar Forum Moderator
Joined: Sept 16 2006
Online Status: Offline Posts: 9068
|
Posted: June 01 2013 at 3:09pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Cassie!
My dear, you are a loving and very motivated mother and teacher. I am sure there are many things your kids enjoyed and learned in school this year.
If I asked my kids those same questions, they would probably say their favorite thing is recess . And even though that end-of-year post is lovely and inspiring, comparisons are never good. That family is not your family. Apples and oranges.
A few thoughts... kids learn in different areas at different speeds. You might have a slow math year this time and then race ahead next year with a math explosion. As the teacher, it is hard not to take the slow times personally.
I just checked out a book called "The What Now Book of Learning Styles" by Carol Barnier from the library that addresses pretty much everything you have mentioned. Most likely your dc are NOT lazy or unmotivated.
Carol had a similar experience with her son. She wrote this book as a result of experimenting with different ways to teach him. Basically, she threw out all her plans and ideas of what she thought worked best and started trying different things and noted which worked best for him
The book is crammed with ideas for helping find the best method to teach your child. It is not a take a quiz and find your learning style book, then do XYZ. It is more about finding out what really engages your dc and working with that. The ideas are pretty simple and would be easy to incorporate working with the curricula you have.
Might be worth a look!
__________________ Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
SQUILT Music Appreciation
|
Back to Top |
|
|
Mackfam Board Moderator
Non Nobis
Joined: April 24 2006 Location: Alabama
Online Status: Offline Posts: 14656
|
Posted: June 01 2013 at 3:10pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I just wanted to pop in and say that I'm pondering this one, Cassie! Just may not have time to get back to you until next week...but I am definitely game to brainstorm with you!!!! I really just didn't want you to think that you had posted this plea and it was being ignored!
Be back!! And hopefully some of the wise ladies here will jump in, too!
__________________ Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
|
Back to Top |
|
|
Kathryn Forum All-Star
Joined: April 24 2009 Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline Posts: 1520
|
Posted: June 01 2013 at 3:18pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
pumpkinmom wrote:
I had my boys do standardize testing this year to see if my concerns are valid. I'm waiting on the results for those. I'm considering telling my oldest that he will be repeating sixth grade to see if this motivates him in his studies, but I worry it will cause problems with our relationship and it may discourage him. I'm praying about this. I really don't think he will be ready for high school in two years.
|
|
|
Cassie,
I can't address it all but quickly I would say to wait and see what the results say. They may score better than you think. I really don't think telling him he will repeat grade level will "motivate" him. I know for sure it wouldn't me and I've got a pretty driven personality but if someone discouraged me that way I would sit on my duff for sure.
My DS is same age and while I'm "advancing" him to 7th grade he won't particularly be doing all 7th grade coursework (esp. comparable to what his sister did in 7th grade). He does have a lot of learning struggles so I have to accommodate where I can. However, since his DD is entering high school this year, I've looked over the high school credits and I still think I can have him ready for "high school" in 2 years. Granted, that will be with a somewhat modified lesson plan and I'm not sure EXACTLY how that will work but I know we can make it work. So, while you might need to keep him doing some 6th grade (or lower) lessons, I would just go ahead and "promote" him to 7th grade but just say that he needs a little extra time in a lower level before moving up. Or that the work required at 7th grade requires much more effort and you want him to learn, enjoy learning and succeed in those efforts. Something along those lines... ???
__________________ Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
|
Back to Top |
|
|
Kathryn Forum All-Star
Joined: April 24 2009 Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline Posts: 1520
|
Posted: June 01 2013 at 3:19pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Have you thought about giving them a "report card"?
__________________ Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
|
Back to Top |
|
|
Mackfam Board Moderator
Non Nobis
Joined: April 24 2006 Location: Alabama
Online Status: Offline Posts: 14656
|
Posted: June 01 2013 at 3:21pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Oh, I was cross posting with Melinda and Kathryn!!! I'm so glad they chimed in with their thoughts!
__________________ Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
|
Back to Top |
|
|
Martha Forum All-Star
Joined: Aug 25 2005 Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline Posts: 2291
|
Posted: June 01 2013 at 4:35pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
pumpkinmom wrote:
I asked my boys the questions that Sarah's kids answered that were on the front of the folders. I got no answers from my kids. There wasn't anything about school they liked, nothing they were looking forward to doing next year, they couldn't tell me anything they want to learn about. My kids hate school! I know they are boys and these type of questions are boring to them. |
|
|
It might be boring or it might just be that you sprung a new idea on them and they need to mull it for a time. I ask my kids every year:
"What 3 things would you want to either do or learn more about if you could choose anything?"
Give them a soft deadline of say, a day or two to think about it and some starting points to get them going."
"I know that seems like a huge question, but I want you to think about it and on Monday, I want you to tell me or write me whatever comes to mind. Thing about things you enjoy doing or have thought looked interesting and ask yourself if you'd like to explore it more. Remember, there is no right or wrong or mom expected answer."
Quote:
I held both my boys back in math to work on mental math skills and basic math facts. This worked well for my youngest. He hasn't mastered multiplication facts though and we didn't even get to division this year. I thought that my oldest had seen progress, but we put that away the last month of school and worked on fractions (basic stuff) and he tested with a low C at the end. He said he just couldn't remember how to do any of the stuff. I started doing 5 minutes of basic fact review with him last week and since we hadn't done this in a month he is back to where we started last fall. I don't understand! |
|
|
ime, the keys to math are:
A. Consistent daily instruction
B. Consistent program vs hopping about
I'd do 30 minutes of math daily and I'd choose a solid program and stick with it if at all possible. When a kid is doing well, a month doesn't hurt. When the are struggling, it seems like the month off is always right when things are just beginning to stick and then they don't.
__________________ Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
|
Back to Top |
|
|
Martha Forum All-Star
Joined: Aug 25 2005 Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline Posts: 2291
|
Posted: June 01 2013 at 5:09pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Sorry. Had to switch devices. What math are you using?
pumpkinmom wrote:
We got no where in grammar or spelling either for both boys. Retention in history and science is very low for both boys. No improvement in handwriting with my youngest and he didn't pick up on cursive this year even though he was looking forward to this. It was harder than he thought and he gave up on it. The only thing both my boys had great progress in was creative writing. And I really just mean they enjoy doing it now will do it without complaining and do it in their free time. |
|
|
Okay. What materials are you using and how consistent were you in using them? I don't do grammar every year. Or spelling either sometimes. I view these as part of the editing process. So kids who read and write frequently, often don't need an additional intensive or separate grammar every year. At least not IMO.
Cursive is a skill like any other. Practice makes better and easier. I would t have let him quit, BUT cursive isn't optional here and I know it is in most homes/schools.
Again, knowing what you are using and how might help me give some pointers.
Quote:
He wants to got to public school. I've gone over and over it and prayed much about it and I don't think that is the solution. |
|
|
And has he been told point straight up that public school is not going to happen? I think dh needs to step in and support you. What does dh say?
Quote:
I had my boys do standardize testing this year to see if my concerns are valid. I'm waiting on the results for those. I'm considering telling my oldest that he will be repeating sixth grade to see if this motivates him in his studies, but I worry it will cause problems with our relationship and it may discourage him. I'm praying about this. I really don't think he will be ready for high school in two years. |
|
|
Worry about high school when you get there.
I never use grades. It really doesn't matter what grade he is. What matters is whether he has reached the next level of ability in the next subject. Call him any grade you want, but the concern is whether he knows his multiplication facts well enough to do the next math level. (For example. )
Quote:
But I do worry that I'm hurting my relationship with my oldest because he is so determined to go to public school. Teaching my kids is exhausting because I have to fight them on everything. I allow them to be involved in planning and I get nothing from them. |
|
|
I would select what will be easiest for you to teach. No point adding anything to make it harder for you than it already is.
I would sit son down and tell him that I am not sending him to ps. The end. And bad grades will net him x. y, or z consequences. (Ideally dad and I would discuss it and dad would sit him down.)
Quote:
Summer school starts Monday morning at the public school for two weeks and I'm considering dragging my oldest there to enroll him so that he can get a taste, but it's summer school and nothing near what school is like during the normal year. He may enjoy it and push for school even harder. |
|
|
Bad idea. Don't give options you can't live with or won't carry through on.
I sit my boys down and told them the truth. That I want to give them an education to attain their goals in life. That as their mother it's literally my god give duty to guide them into growing into good men. And we discuss what qualities make a good man. I often use the dragging horse to water analogy. ;)
It's vital they know you are trying to help them reach adulthood and their dreams. What are some goals he has? If he doesn't have any, help him make some. In writing. What motivates him? Praise? Rewards? Respect? Or?
I think everything you mention is common frustrations of tweens. Not necessarily laziness so much as puberty fog. It's a rough age. Frankly it's been rougher than 16-18 for us so far. (((Hugs)))
__________________ Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
|
Back to Top |
|
|
Aagot Forum All-Star
Joined: Aug 06 2010
Online Status: Offline Posts: 649
|
Posted: June 01 2013 at 8:45pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Hi Cassie,
this may sound like a very funny question, but are the boys getting enough exercise and outdoor time? Do they eat too much sugar and bread? My kids get just like you describe when their diet and exercise is off. It just makes them foggy, couch potatoes. It takes awhile to get them back to normal too.
|
Back to Top |
|
|
Martha Forum All-Star
Joined: Aug 25 2005 Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline Posts: 2291
|
Posted: June 01 2013 at 8:53pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I second exercise!!
Boys need to move to think.
__________________ Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
|
Back to Top |
|
|
4 lads mom Forum All-Star
Joined: Sept 26 2006
Online Status: Offline Posts: 1944
|
Posted: June 01 2013 at 9:03pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Aagot wrote:
Hi Cassie,
this may sound like a very funny question, but are the boys getting enough exercise and outdoor time? Do they eat too much sugar and bread? My kids get just like you describe when their diet and exercise is off. It just makes them foggy, couch potatoes. It takes awhile to get them back to normal too. |
|
|
I have four boys, three of whom are teen boys. Protein....exercise...lots of sleep...repeat. I would definitely examine what was said above. I agree with everything said already, that age is TOUGH. They aren’t your cherub face little tonka boy sweethearts anymore. They are having hormonal changes that make them so impulsive, given to distraction, and needing some firm guidance from Dad. It is like they become these young bucks, all wrangling for some action, something they can throw themselves into, sometimes literally! It took me four boys to sort of figure out why I feel so challenged by this ago. It helps me a lot to look at them as future protectors of their family, (something that makes me quake with fear when finding matching socks is a big deal ) future leaders, future Godly husbands or priests...and then work backwards. Does that make sense?
Don’t be too hard on yourself. I wonder if they need a bit more say in what they are studying...one or two subjects that they get really jazzed about and are in charge of.....just brainstormin’ with you.
I have been in the same boat...it does get better
__________________ Mom of four brave lads and one sweet lassie
Scenes From This and That
|
Back to Top |
|
|
4 lads mom Forum All-Star
Joined: Sept 26 2006
Online Status: Offline Posts: 1944
|
Posted: June 01 2013 at 9:11pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
ps--when I went to the blog you posted about, Miss Sarah, who is so lovely and I have seen before...there is a big, big difference here. Her first two are GIRLS!! You truly can not even begin to compare your house with her’s....no way....no, no, no!!! Those dynamics differences are truly like night and day. It’s sort of like trying to compare Mary on Little House on a Prairie and Luke on Star Wars.
Focus on that positive writing experience...that is HUGE for boys! Girl, I would embrace that as a spectacular win!!! So many boys struggle like crazy with writing. They are obviously very creative...run with it!
__________________ Mom of four brave lads and one sweet lassie
Scenes From This and That
|
Back to Top |
|
|
4 lads mom Forum All-Star
Joined: Sept 26 2006
Online Status: Offline Posts: 1944
|
Posted: June 01 2013 at 9:29pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
pss--Sarah’s blog post is lovely, and now I am thinking about how to do this for our family, modified a bit, but it is a great idea.
__________________ Mom of four brave lads and one sweet lassie
Scenes From This and That
|
Back to Top |
|
|
kristacecilia Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 05 2010
Online Status: Offline Posts: 677
|
Posted: June 03 2013 at 6:24am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Oh my gosh... I love that folder idea. Now I want to do it, too. What a dangerous link!!
I'm still a rookie at this homeschooling stuff (my oldest is only 9), but I know we all have really discouraging times. I think Martha had a lot of wisdom to share. I read it all and tucked it away. I'm sure I'm going to have a year like this, too.
__________________ God bless,
Krista
Wife to a great guy, mom to two boys ('04, '06) and three girls ('08, '10, '12!)
I blog at http://kristacecilia.wordpress.com/
|
Back to Top |
|
|
pumpkinmom Forum All-Star
Joined: March 28 2012 Location: Missouri
Online Status: Offline Posts: 1028
|
Posted: June 03 2013 at 11:44am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I typed up a response this morning and I guess I hit the "reset form" button instead of the "post reply" I hate when that happens!
I wanted to thank everyone for their replies. They were all helpful!!
Martha, you gave me a lot to think about and some great advice. I wasn't going to answer the questions you asked, but I get your point and needed this guidance.
We did decide to send my oldest off to summer school this morning. I think he needs this experience but was full warned this is a one time experience. I'm very anxious and I'm not getting anything done today. I think it will be a cuddle on the couch with my youngest and watch movies afternoon.
Test results arrived in the mail today. They were pretty much what I expected and feared. Both boys tested high in reading which I expected. I'm still worried that the oldest didn't make any progress this year but since he is still above average I guess I can just forgot about that for now. Oldest was low in math which I was expecting. What I wasn't happy about was that the subjects we worked on all year were his lowest. I think we will do this test next year to see how they are progressing. Even though I really don't like the idea of testing I think I need it to help me determine if we are making progress.
Thanks again everyone! Between you and a IRL homeschooling friend, I was able to take a better look at our homeschool and my boy's year. I will still take any feedback or opinions you all have (it's always great).
__________________ Cassie
Homeschooling my little patch of Ds-14 and Ds-10
Tending the Pumpkin Patch
|
Back to Top |
|
|
Kathryn Forum All-Star
Joined: April 24 2009 Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline Posts: 1520
|
Posted: June 05 2013 at 8:42pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Martha wrote:
I think everything you mention is common frustrations of tweens. Not necessarily laziness so much as puberty fog. It's a rough age. (((Hugs))) |
|
|
I'm finding this a bit true with my exceptional 14 yo DD. She is a "pleaser" of all pleasers and I really have no "trouble" with her yet her brain has been in a fog for months! I have to constantly remind her about stuff...even schoolwork! Then I have DS 12 and well, he's almost 13 so no more to say there if you've read any of my other posts.
__________________ Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
|
Back to Top |
|
|
Tina P. Forum All-Star
Joined: June 28 2005 Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline Posts: 1638
|
Posted: June 06 2013 at 9:47am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Cassie: Last year we experimented with putting two of our teens into Jr. High. I had a little one and things just weren't getting accomplished at home as I would wish. I kept having to school through summer, thus not getting anything in the way of deep cleaning and purging done. Very disappointing.
I put the one who did VERY little in homeschool the year before into the next grade (8th). He maintained a 3.9 average in school. That tells me two things. School out of the house really doesn't require a whole lot AND we didn't lose any momentum with him having basically taken the whole year off. Oh, he read a lot and he finished his math book. We worked through *some* of a science book filled with experiments. I never offered him a standardized test.
As a quick side note: I may not be acting very Christian here, but it feels good to let those naysayers of homeschooling know that it works. One teacher I know was lamenting that homeschoolers don't know how to do work, that they say, "Do I *really* have to do such-and-such project? That's too hard!" and they fail because they just don't turn in the work or don't turn it in on time. When I told her that my two who were in school were maintaining 3.5 and 3.9 GPAs, she said, "Oh!" and that was about it.
Two things I have to offer you. I had one boy who fought and fought and FOUGHT me (do you get the emphasis here? ) since he was 11 as regards homeschooling. Finally, we put him in school in the 10th grade. He excelled. We put his sister, who just wanted to 'try school,' in with him. She did not excel. She was more suited to homeschool. However, she did stick it out in school and they both graduated this year. Her whole process was painful for her and my husband and me.
The other two who went to school this year are coming back home this year. They understand the fact that they have to talk with me more often and that timeliness matters. But both of these kids seem to know that friends are fleeting and are often very superficial all the way through high school. So I guess what I'm saying is that some personalities are just better suited to the institutional environment, but I think it's rare. Friends *do* become vital at this age, however. If you can find a homeschool support group with similarly aged boys, you're in a better place than I am!
The other thing is that perhaps you can experiment for one year, a semester, even just a quarter. You and your son can determine during that time whether school is a fit for him. I'm not saying 'Yay, school!' by any means. My family and friends all know that I an anti-school. But sometimes, school is just the kick-in-the-pants a kid needs to realize the blessings he has at home.
Hope I haven't offended anyone by what I've said. I'm just relating what I've experienced. Of course, if you hate my ideas, you certainly don't have to implement them.
__________________ Tina, wife to one and mom to 9 + 3 in heaven
Mary's Muse
|
Back to Top |
|
|
pumpkinmom Forum All-Star
Joined: March 28 2012 Location: Missouri
Online Status: Offline Posts: 1028
|
Posted: June 07 2013 at 9:19am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I added a clarification in my original post.
__________________ Cassie
Homeschooling my little patch of Ds-14 and Ds-10
Tending the Pumpkin Patch
|
Back to Top |
|
|