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JennGM
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This question is in context with Charlotte Mason's approach that we don't reread or cover again same material.
(As an aside, Is Charlotte Mason a Gentle Approach by Sonya Shafer is an excellent article -- looking forward to the series. She mentions this not rereading.)
I understand we can reread for pleasure, but not to regain the knowledge. The point is to be attentive the first time.
So, a few questions just come to mind.
1) What about picture books? A totally separate category? Do you keep repeating them over and over? Liturgical year picture books -- keep those coming every year?
At what point do you stop? Clues from the children?
2) What about chapter books for liturgical seasons or religious content? I'm thinking specifically about Mater Amabilis for Level 1A which covers about 2-3 years. Do I find substitutes for each year for the New Testament readings, liturgical seasons readings if we have already gone through the book?
I know there is no right or wrong, just looking for some thoughts.
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CrunchyMom
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Well, narrating isn't the same as quoting, and yet, it seems like many well-educated people throughout history were able to quote extensively from their favorite works.
This, to me, is a type of mastery of material beyond absorbing what is read.
Children, particularly, love to hear the familiar over and over and over until they can practically or actually recite it.
And there are some things that we gain a different understanding of when we reread. It isn't that we were incompetent, it is that there are so many layers.
Just some ramblings...
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Chris V
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CrunchyMom wrote:
Well, narrating isn't the same as quoting, and yet, it seems like many well-educated people throughout history were able to quote extensively from their favorite works.
This, to me, is a type of mastery of material beyond absorbing what is read.
Children, particularly, love to hear the familiar over and over and over until they can practically or actually recite it.
And there are some things that we gain a different understanding of when we reread. It isn't that we were incompetent, it is that there are so many layers.
Just some ramblings... |
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My thoughts too, Lindsay.
JennGM wrote:
(As an aside, Is Charlotte Mason a Gentle Approach by Sonya Shafer is an excellent article -- looking forward to the series. She mentions this not rereading.) |
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I read that article this morning, Jenn. Very good. 
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JodieLyn
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CrunchyMom wrote:
And there are some things that we gain a different understanding of when we reread. It isn't that we were incompetent, it is that there are so many layers.
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Tagging onto Lindsay's post. Maturity, experience these can give new insight into something that you hadn't had before. It could be a person close to you dying giving you a particular insight into a character that's grieving. Or a new bit of information you hadn't had that makes motives clearer. Or a history on a custom or area that you didn't have the first time through. Just being more mature you tend to identify with different characters/people than you did the first time.
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JennGM
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Yes, nodding my head in agreement. I guess I should rephrase and say ASSIGNING a book already read and narrated and studied.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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CrunchyMom
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JennGM wrote:
| Yes, nodding my head in agreement. I guess I should rephrase and say ASSIGNING a book already read and narrated and studied. |
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Do you mean years later or days later? I would think that definitely something like Shakespeare or Greek Mythology could be reread to be studied in more depth for an older student.
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Lindsay
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JennGM
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I'm thinking where I am now, early years.
Two examples in my head. We read "St. Patrick's Summer" for Lent. For Advent it was "Introduction to the Liturgical Year" and "Way to Bethlehem" by Biffi.
Repeat those?
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JodieLyn
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hmm I would think the same things would apply. Is there enough time between to add depth to what you're doing?
I can remember being so frustrated with US History in high school.. because it was just the same stuff I'd learned 2 years before in 8th grade (or in one instance in 5th grade) But if it had added more depth or breadth it would have added to my knowledge and been great.
If the first time was more about the particulars of the story and this time would be more about say the motives or the era or something like that.. it could create more depth or breadth instead of just redoing.
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CrunchyMom
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JennGM wrote:
I'm thinking where I am now, early years.
Two examples in my head. We read "St. Patrick's Summer" for Lent. For Advent it was "Introduction to the Liturgical Year" and "Way to Bethlehem" by Biffi.
Repeat those? |
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Well, the Church repeats them, at least conceptually. Literally when it comes to readings and prayers. So, she certainly doesn't expect that we got it the first time.
I don't see why the reading of a book, even academically, can't be a "tradition."
If your children seem bored with the material, then perhaps you should find a new source for approaching the subject matter. But if they enjoy it and are still getting things out of it a year later, I don't think that is quite the same thing as the repeated reading of material as in, you read it once, and then in order to recall any facts, you have to reread it. That was what I always thought CM was referring to, but I'm not as familiar with her writings as others, so I might be wrong. If so, I think I might feel differently, especially when it comes to spiritual readings. Those always have a way of speaking to one differently according to one's current situation.
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Mackfam
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This is an excellent article, and I think underlines a very important point that can be easily misunderstood - and that is that a structured CM education is extremely RIGOROUS!!!! I look at my high schooler's CM lesson plans and SHE WORKS HARD! But for that matter, all of the children do: they each work to their capabilities! But, this is one of those great paradoxes - a structured CM education can be rigorous without being burdensome or exhausting! To see that rigor, that depth, you have to look beyond some of the parts of a CM education: things like Nature Study and Picture Study. Is CM also gentle? I think it is, not because of a few of its parts which appear attractive and gentle on the surface, but because the whole of it is "for the children's sake" and as such, is a delight because it never loses sight of the child as person. Of course, I'm getting way ahead of Sonya and the series of articles!!!!  We'll see what she has to say!
In terms of rereading, CM was moving at an efficient pace, which left no room for repeating books in the curriculum. And there wasn't a need if the child offered his/her attention and made the material his own through narrations. For the most part, when CM speaks of not re-reading, she's really emphasizing how the child did not revisit the book to study or prepare for narrations or for end of term exams. The child was to bring his full attention to a first reading, and through narrations, the material would become his own. These narrations are the tool, the cement, that allows a one-time read to become a part of a child in a real way. So, when you hear that term (no re-reading) it's (1)a reflection of the habit of attention the child was to bring to his reading (with knowledge from that book cemented upon narration), and (2) the efficient manner of studying a liberal (wide and generous) education.
So, no. You would not find a book reassigned on CM's curriculum. That doesn't mean that you can't do that, and I have done it for the same reasons cited above: many of the books I assign may be allegorical in nature, or they may simply be layered in a rich simplicity so that they are completely accessible to a 4th grader, yet an 8th grader brings more maturity to an old friend, and discovers even more. In looking back, I find that I repeat in religion more than any other subject. Having said that, in terms of RE-assigning a book, I do it very infrequently, usually for the same reasons CM gave: we move across a wide and generous curriculum and do so at a comfortable pace, but a pace nonetheless, and time is spent as efficiently as possible.
Let me throw another tangent in here, while I don't often repeat, I do often S-T-R-E-T-C-H!!!!!! So, a book that could be read in a year, I may ask my student to read over the period of 3 years. But, that's different from repeating! And, I usually do that with really meaty reads, like Churchill.
Now in terms of reading through the Bible with the Liturgical Year as the Church does, or repeating Liturgical picture books, I follow Holy Mother Church's wisdom on this matter without blinking an eye. We repeat. Perhaps not every year, but we do repeat. We follow the rhythm of the Church and we read as much as we can through the Liturgical seasons. Many of our picture books are treasured, and repeating them is as much a part of the fabric of our family's (little "t") traditions as anything else. I do try to layer reading sometimes in terms of depth - so my older readers might read Franz Werfl's Song of Bernadette while my little people (with olders ALWAYS listening in!) enjoy a picture book.
I recently read a fantastic quote about the value of a book being found in a person's desire to go back to it and re-read it...and now I'm just kicking myself for not adding it to my commonplace book so I could quote it for you!!! This is, of course, outside the curriculum though. I'll give you an example. Several years ago....hmmmm....6 maybe....I assigned for reading Mara, Daughter of the Nile to my then 4th grader. It was a fantastic book, captured her imagination, and she read it, narrated it and finished it. When she returned in her studies to that period of time, there were so many other worthy books for her to read from that period that I did not choose to reassign Mara.... But, my daughter enjoyed the book so much, found it so worthy, that she re-read it on her own a number of times since the first time it was assigned, and she chose to read it on her own while she studied Egypt again. It still enjoys a treasured place on her personal bookshelves. Many books that were once "assigned" end up being good friends and are chosen by the child to be read again, completely outside the curriculum.
My take on the topic of re-reading. I do enjoy hearing all your thoughts on this!
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guitarnan
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I own a collection of books for children and young adults - titles I loved and re-read so often when I was young that I sought them out and bought out-of-print copies so I could read them again...they are all historical fiction, and many of them have a Catholic perspective...which is interesting, since I did not realize that at the time I first read each of these books.
My children, so far, have not been that interested in these books, but they are wonderful. I read them all at least once per year. We're just getting to ancient Egypt (we read The Golden Goblet together a few years ago, so I am going to try for Mara this year)...and I have Judith of France and Journey for a Princess for the post-Charlemagne/Viking invasion period.
So, yes, re-reading has its place. It's a very important place.
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lapazfarm
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Mackfam wrote:
| For the most part, when CM speaks of not re-reading, she's really emphasizing how the child did not revisit the book to study or prepare for narrations or for end of term exams. The child was to bring his full attention to a first reading, and through narrations, the material would become his own. |
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This is the way I interpret it as well. CM was talking about a single reading being sufficient in order to contrast that to the teaching style of using endless repetition to drill info into a child's head. The habit of allowing only one reading forces attention in a way that the use of repetition cannot.
And I think it is a totally separate issue, but I don't think she would have had a problem with a child revisiting a favorite book at a later age with a different (more mature) perspective, but I do think her curriculum was so full and rich it didn't leave much room for re-reads.
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Grace&Chaos
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Mackfam wrote:
This is an excellent article, and I think underlines a very important point that can be easily misunderstood - and that is that a structured CM education is extremely RIGOROUS!!!! I look at my high schooler's CM lesson plans and SHE WORKS HARD! But for that matter, all of the children do: they each work to their capabilities! But, this is one of those great paradoxes - a structured CM education can be rigorous without being burdensome or exhausting! To see that rigor, that depth, you have to look beyond some of the parts of a CM education: things like Nature Study and Picture Study. Is CM also gentle? I think it is, not because of a few of its parts which appear attractive and gentle on the surface, but because the whole of it is "for the children's sake" and as such, is a delight because it never loses sight of the child as person. Of course, I'm getting way ahead of Sonya and the series of articles!!!! We'll see what she has to say! |
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I thought this was just wonderful to read. I have a hard time explaining this to people. Saying it's gentle (for the reasons Jen explains) can be interpreted as simple and not challenging. That is just not the case at all. There is structure and there is rigor but it is done in way that doesn't drain the child or rob them of enjoying their education.
As for the topic of rereading I'm enjoying the thoughts on this. But I can say that I agree I wouldn't come back to a book that we have already spent quality time on. There are favorites and we do enjoy those.
I like your example of the Biffi books Jenn. We spent time on some of them last year during our Advent studies (narration, copywork) and while they are wonderful, I've been trying to think what can I use this year as our focus. Leaving the Biffi books in the basket to just enjoy during the season and the kids can revist at will.
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AmandaV
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Jen,
Was it this quote?:
“No book is really worth reading at the age of ten which is not equally – and often far more – worth reading at the age of fifty and beyond.”
― C.S. Lewis
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Mackfam
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AmandaV wrote:
Jen,
Was it this quote?:
“No book is really worth reading at the age of ten which is not equally – and often far more – worth reading at the age of fifty and beyond.”
― C.S. Lewis |
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That's it, Amanda!!! I knew it was either Lewis or Chesterton!!! God bless you for finding it because I've been kicking myself that I couldn't remember it!
And by the way, that quote is an excellent measuring stick of a living/whole/worthy book. If you're staring at a book and wondering if it's living, ask yourself if it would be worth reading now and again at 50? If so, then chances are you are holding a living book!
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Jen Mackintosh
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Rereading
