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JennGM
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| Posted: Jan 15 2011 at 9:03pm | IP Logged
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Maybe I should title it "plowing ahead"? Forgive me if this has been brought up before. My son at 7 is an avid reader. He reads anything he can put his hands on. The easiest part about using CM is giving him something to read. He narrates back what he's read.
But when I assign books to be read in chapters or smaller chunks, if it's a good book, he can't wait and wants to plow ahead and read until the end.
Is this a problem? The way I've been treating it is so continue the narration, so he summarizes everything he has read, and then just assign more reading.
But I know this isn't the ideal way, as we're missing the discipline and perseverance.
Suggestions?
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guitarnan
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| Posted: Jan 15 2011 at 9:28pm | IP Logged
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Could discipline and perseverance come via copywork, nature study, etc.? Avid readers...well, we just can't put that book down. For anything. Tell us not to and we will sneak a flashlight under the covers. 
I would never, ever put the brakes on a child who loves to read. Additional projects, yes. Narrations, posters, book reports (when he is older), author biographies, yes.
Love of reading is a blessing, and the same child who loves to read picture and chapter books is very likely later on to pick up saint biographies, history books and the Bible on his/her own. Honestly, the hard part for most parents is pre-reading books to keep up! (Somehow I don't think you will have that issue, Jenn...but...)
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JennGM
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| Posted: Jan 15 2011 at 9:35pm | IP Logged
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Yes, that flashlight, or any kind of light comes out, doesn't it?
And I was the same way, but I didn't use this approach...so thanks, Nancy. Those are helpful ideas...
If he eats up a book, then I find more in that genre or subject to feed his appetite a bit more.
It is a joy to see him enjoy the books. And I can see the twinkle when I start touching some new books or bring them home from the library. Both boys can't wait to devour them.
I got a Crinkleroot book in the mail, was thumbing through the pages a bit, and my 3 yo asks from the back seat: "Well? What did you think, Mommy?"
I asked him what did he mean, and he asked "Did you like the Crinkleroot? Are we going to like it?"
He's following his brother's footsteps, I think.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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CatholicMommy
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| Posted: Jan 15 2011 at 9:42pm | IP Logged
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One concern I've had with an avid reader is that whole idea of discipline. You might like something but sometimes you have to wait for it.
But then I realized, there are so many other areas in life where one learns this discipline, that just a simple "talk to me about each chapter before you go on" is about as slow as the reading gets.  That gives me the opportunity to ask questions like "what do you think will happen next?" and similar predictive questions; some of which will lead into a deeper discussion, but then it's back to the book.
I don't do that with every book - just a few here and there, especially the ones that are specifically for "school".
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Mackfam
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I have two answers for how this works in our home. One is for a book that is on the lesson plans. The other answer is for a book that has been independently chosen.
If I assign a book for reading for a particular subject, like Joan of Arc for history, I require my kids to read at the pace I set. I may ask for 6 pages a day, or whatever figure I've worked out. This is for a few reasons:
1) It allows the child to savor the reading.
2) It fosters a short lesson so that the child can continue on with the other subjects. If I don't require hard stops in "school required" reading then I have children that will devour a historical fiction book to the detriment of other subjects/reading. CM talks about subjects having proportional places, and I think that's probably significant if you're looking to offer a liberal education like CM which is wide and generous.
3) It allows for detailed narrations. Not that summary narrations are bad - those are great!!!! I do like how sometimes detailed narrations prompt some internal questions and reflections which often lead to discussion and sometimes even rabbit trails. I notice these don't happen as often when a child summarizes a good deal of reading all at once.
If a book is chosen independently, whether historical fiction, natural history, fiction, whatever....I allow the child to read at their own pace. I usually don't ask for narrations of those books unless a child really wants to offer one because they're excited about what they're reading.
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guitarnan
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There are many ways to deepen appreciation of a book without slowing down the actual reading. One year we looked at various versions of The Wizard of Oz and other books and poems and compared illustrations with our "visions" of the story. (With The Wizard of Oz, we threw in the movie version, too.)
Sometimes books lead us on rabbit trails involving art or nature study. (Chasing Vermeer took my art-hating children to the National Gallery of Art...what a great day that was!) Other times they lead us to local stage plays and musicals - spring is a great time for this.
One tip - if an author mentions a specific book or another author within his/her work, and you like the book you're reading, be sure to follow up on that reference. Authors don't include works they dislike in novels they create for young people. (E.g. Edward Eager's character, Ann, led me to my most-beloved Betsy-Tacy series, and the recent award winner When You Reach Me is partly a tribute to Madeleine L'Engle's A Wrinkle In Time.)
A child who loves reading will never, ever, ever stop learning. What a wonderful gift!
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SuzanneG
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I will require "paced reading" for things that I want to be savored (I love that word!) Things/Ideas/Concepts/People that are important enough to mull over, or a book that contains ideas that I want dc to think about throughout the week, day, etc. I do agree that a book that is slowly read BECOMES a part of you more than one that is read quickly. So, these assigned and paced books....I do require that they read at a certain pace.
Melissa Wiley had a post a few years ago that addressed this. About All That Reading (I can't believe that was FOUR years ago!)
She quoted these passages from Charlotte Mason's works:
Volume 6, Towards a Philosophy of Education
CM wrote:
| In the first place we all know that desultory reading is delightful and incidentally profitable but is not education whose concern is knowledge. That is, the mind of the desultory reader only rarely makes the act of appropriation which is necessary before the matter we read becomes personal knowledge. We must read in order to know or we do not know by reading. |
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CM wrote:
But, it will be said, reading or hearing various books read, chapter by chapter, and then narrating or writing what has been read or some part of it,—all this is mere memory work. The value of this criticism may be readily tested; will the critic read before turning off his light a leading article from a newspaper, say, or a chapter from Boswell or Jane Austen, or one of Lamb’s Essays; then, will he put himself to sleep by narrating silently what he has read. He will not be satisfied with the result but he will find that in the act of narrating every power of his mind comes into play, that points and bearings which he had not observed are brought out; that the whole is visualized and brought into relief in an extraordinary way; in fact, that scene or argument has become a part of his personal experience; he knows, he has assimilated what he has read.
—Volume 6, page 16. |
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But, for those AVID READERS....absolutely nothing wrong with letting them go CRAZY with other books of their choice and read as much as they want! But, having SOME books that are paced and savored is part of a CM education.
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JodieLyn
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Paced reading can be good.. but on the other hand.. so can unlimited reading.
Certainly, there are good reasons for slowing things down. But the flip side is that you may not learn enjoyment of those types of books when things are broken up like that.
I discovered I LIKE reading shakespeare when I missed a day and got so caught up when reading it to myself that I was at the end before I realized I was way past the point I was supposed to have stopped at. (is there anything that destroys literature like a high school class reading it out loud?) I also realized that I could understand much more of the story when the class wasn't taking it apart word by word but when I was able to let the words weave a story without needing to know the exact definition of each word and why it was used.. it's like.. translateing word for word or translating the meaning of a passage.. it can be two entirely different things.
I also read ahead another book that I can remember off the top of my head because I was enoying it.. and did all the class work from memory.. by the time we were done I was having to remember back a month or more (and many books). And I still could answer all the questions
Though I'm also completely sure that you ladies here wouldn't stip the books of any enjoyment like my high school classes could
And there's absolutely nothing wrong with having a limited time during school for reading at that time.. but still allowing the child to pick up the book during a free time and continue reading at that point.
I might give way for a new discovery.. a new style of literature (like Shakespeare) or a new time period in history where you WANT to get them to be interested.. sometimes that slow and savory pace.. ends up feeling to the child like a plodding and boring thing when being able to get a bit more caught up in it can build the excitement and desire to know more.
It might even be possible to combine the two.. let the child read ahead to get caught up in the book more and then slow things down.. or start slowly and let the desire to read more build and then let them keep going as the climax of the book approaches.
But I stopped reading tonight in the middle of the climax and I felt terrible doing that.. but it was getting late and I just couldn't read another 2 chapters.
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ekbell
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With my children, I don't get upset if they 'read ahead' but they know that they will still need to read and discuss their assigned books at the assigned pace, even if this means a lot of rereading.
Reading quickly and getting a feel for the whole book and then rereading slowly and absorbing details works well for me, personally.
To mangle a metaphor I'm less likely to miss the forest for the trees if I've read the book before studying it. If I'm going to be able to experience the book as a BOOK, as a unity, I need to have read the book in it's entirety within a short period of time. [in highschool I used this fact to my advantage when dealing with books I didn't want to experience at full impact (The Lord of the Flies, The Stone Angel), if I stuck to the class reading schedule the misery (or horror) was blunted and I was better able to avoid an experience I wasn't ready for.]
On the other hand reading a book quickly without ever studying it, without ever reading it slowly and carefully, would be as if I watched a forest whizz past in our car without ever stopping to study the marvelous variety enclosed within.
By necessity I've seen more landscapes passing by our car then I've walked through, I've read more books in a quick and careless fashion then slowly and carefully but I've learned that walking through the same landscape day after day or rereading a great book slowly and carefully means more and stays longer then the most beautiful scenery or most entertaining first read through.
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CrunchyMom
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Not speaking from experience as a mom but as an avid young reader, I like Jen and Suzanne's suggestions. I would plow through books and I missed a lot as I had no one limiting me (ever).
I think that as ekbell suggests, I definitely expect more books to be read in the quick and careless fashion, especially fiction.
But, I think if the purpose for assigning the book was, say, for history, I would want to limit it to smaller portions and narrations so that one would more likely remember names, dates, locations, and other details pertinent to the study.
I can't tell you the number of books I've read where I haven't retained the names of the characters or other details. Part of it is personality (I'm terrible with the names of real people too  ), but one thing that draws me to Charlotte Mason is the discipline described that I feel I missed in my own education.
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JodieLyn
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hmm Considering what Ekbell and Lindsay are saying.. I think it will also depend on how well (and with what method) the child grasps the details.
I do like reading through a book and then going back through more slowly..
But I also lose a lot of the book if I read it slowly.. partly because I just stop caring about it.
Could stadn for some experimenting with the child.. figuring out which way keeps the child engaged. What helps them remember the details.. how much is enough, how much is too much.. AND what is too slow to keep them engaged.
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VanessaVH
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CrunchyMom wrote:
Not speaking from experience as a mom but as an avid young reader, I like Jen and Suzanne's suggestions. I would plow through books and I missed a lot as I had no one limiting me (ever).
I think that as ekbell suggests, I definitely expect more books to be read in the quick and careless fashion, especially fiction.
But, I think if the purpose for assigning the book was, say, for history, I would want to limit it to smaller portions and narrations so that one would more likely remember names, dates, locations, and other details pertinent to the study.
I can't tell you the number of books I've read where I haven't retained the names of the characters or other details. Part of it is personality (I'm terrible with the names of real people too ), but one thing that draws me to Charlotte Mason is the discipline described that I feel I missed in my own education. |
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I could have written your post almost word for word CruchyMom!! One of the things that bothers me most, is that I remember bits and pieces of all the things I read over the years, often without context, which makes it really difficult to go back and find a book again... and I have been known to forget names of characters in the books less than a week after reading it.
On the plus side for CM, I am getting a chance to become much better acquainted with books from the slow pace required to read aloud to a 5yo. We are really devouring the Little House books right now, and I am getting so much out of it that I missed when I read them quickly as a child. So even though I might regret how I did things when I was younger, there is still hope for change!
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herdingkittens
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one of mine is a 7 year old boy bookworm. i just let him go (honestly, i don't have time to track his chapters) and he narrates the entire book to me afterwards (i type). He illustrates his narration and then records his book on his book list. The only issue with that is that I end up typing 3 or more page narration (summary is not his strong point! ).
His older sister is the same way, and I gave up on tracking much with her. I just cannot imagine keeping up with all of them as they all get older!! 
Although, I am not a CM purist, so take what I say with a grain of salt - although for our family, we get the discipline of CM in most everything else (sometimes by accident - one of the reasons I love CM!).
Praise God you have such a happy reader - it is a joy to hear little ones share with enthusiasm what they have discovered via books!!! Isn't HSing GREAT?!?!
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Reading Ahead
