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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: March 15 2006 at 12:00pm | IP Logged
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So much for *real learning*. After going to the site Kim F. sent under the Montessori thread I realized how workbookish we've become! 
First off, I've always been more an eclectic learner. I do believe learning happens all the time...through unschooling, workbooks, tutoring, etc. etc. etc. and have often pulled together an eclectic mix of Seton, CHC, MODG, CM, etc. etc. etc. Perhaps my whole problem is we have too much of a mixture.
In the past, we go through that terrible February spell where we have a hard time getting back on track after Christmas break. I see the months sliding by without us doing any learning...that I'm satisfied with. I say we're *unschooling* but that's probably a cop-out because there's no structure whatsoever. It's everybody fend for themselves.
This year we didn't have that problem. We've been blissfully continuing our schooling...thanks to CHC. 
But what I realized is I was more *hands-on* with my dc when I had two book contracts going on.  How nutty is that!!! I think it was a case of procrastination on my part. 
Now I'm under no obligations and I spend most my time reading. All while the dc do their little workbooks. Also, my 9-12 N table time as shifted mainly to 12-3 PM. Not sure why but it's very laid back around here in the mornings.
I love CHC because I feel we're getting something done...subject wise...but *real learning* has completely gone out the window.
Or, perhaps not. They girls were just dancing to music from various countries on our Leap Frog Talking Globe. They love that thing. They'll press China and scream "China!" and start dancing erratically. Then they'll press Egypt and scream "Egypt!" and dance like an Egyptian.  They're learning geography, right? They're fun to watch anyway.
No lapbooks. Our liturgical year notebook has not been touched since Valentine's Day. My daughter's first communion is a month and a half away. We haven't even begun to add that section.  My Montessori trays need to be redone...completely!
My 12-yr-old (13 tomorrow )was so far behind in his English workbook that we had a long discussion. I realized how behind he was. He had gone through the Voyages in English before Christmas but he just wasn't getting it . So I'm thinking that Voyages was a complete waste of time. What do I do? I threaten to get a tutor. I mean, this child was not able to tell a direct object from an indirect object from a subjective complement, etc. etc. etc. We struggled for weeks over English...him not understanding why he needed to bother with all the lingo and my dh backing him up with, "You know, I've never had to use any of that stuff. I still don't know what an appositive is. Nominative case? What's that?!" and me feeling like a complete failure.  Where's the tutor!
The only ammunition I had was, "Well, if he's ever tested, they're going to ask what have I been teaching him all this time."
Then one day, it snapped! No, not ME Him! Something in his soon-to-be-teenaged brain snapped...or, rather, connected. He came to me all excited one day. He understood it! He was trying to contain his excitment over English! and couldn't. "I understand it, MOm. I've got it." and proceeded to show me. Now he's been speeding through his English workbook...so proud he can do it.
I can't say he would test well (or even ever use this stuff---he might even forget it by next week ) but at least he doesn't feel like an English failure anymore. I'm proud of him too because I'm always glancing over my shoulder for the school police or my teacher-aunt to call for accountability.
But, though the workbooks are getting done and we're even showing some learning going on, this is not the reality I want in this house.
I need to reshift my focus to do more with the dc. Or I feel I must. Even while I can point out *unschooling* going on---because I truly believe learning happens all the time all around us---I still see too many workbooks piled on the table.
And, yes, I got excited when I saw that my 8 yr old has only seven more lessons in her CHC spelling workbook. Why? So we can ditch it in the trash and have a celebration! of course!!!
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
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Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: March 15 2006 at 12:39pm | IP Logged
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I went through the same thing at the end of last year. We were doing CHC workbooks for LA. spelling, writing, and another workbook for math. We were getting alot done, but yuck! All workbooks! They may work wonderfully for some, but it was killing ds enthusiasm for learning and mine for teaching. Plus it went entirely against my hands-on, exploratory-learning philosophy. So ds and I did a major re-evaluation and this year we are workbook and textbook-free and loving it! It requires alot more work on my part, but the lessons we learn stick in ds brain! He is enthusiastic and engaged. It is most definitely not unschooling, because I do have tasks that I ask him to do, but those tasks are entirely tailored to his interests and needs at the present.
One thing I did to help me stay focused on real learning is I put a sticker up on my computer that is my mantra for ordering educational materials- "Hands on, or Hands off!" meaning, if it does not involve actual DOING SOMETHING, then I don't buy it. Books, of course, are the exception, but even those are usually support materials for our hands-on studies.
Another thing I do is have a day set aside each quarter to re-evaluate with ds what is working and what is not. Every time we end up discovering more about how ds learns and I teach best so we can tweak our schooling a little bit more to get a good fit. We also use this time to set goals for the next quarter. For dd(4), I end up doing this for her, due to age.
I am not saying I have the answer to "real learning" for everyone. I'm sure that would look different for each of us. I do think that I've finaly got a handle on it for us, but it took LOTS of re-evaluation and willingness to try new things and toss out anything that wasn't working.
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Theresa
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Shari in NY
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Well, we ditched our CHC spelling workbooks three weeks ago and haven't looked back!
Shari in NY
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Sarah
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| Posted: March 15 2006 at 1:42pm | IP Logged
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Yikes! My Seton box of workbooks came yesterday.
I do it every spring--March madness--freak out that we didn't learn enough this school year. . .and I see summer right around the Easter break corner. . .and I panic.
At this time we are living out of boxes since we're moving in 2 weeks and creative schooling is out the window. No lapbooks, no art project, etc. . .
But, moving is a learning experience, right?
Well, since I feel that ds7 needs more one on one right now, and my time is limited with packing, I ordered ds9 some WB's from Seton and he's REALLY excited . He'll spend the next couple weeks breezing through them and maybe learn something, and maybe his cursive will improve, and we'll be set! Right?
No chance with ds7--he has 1 phonics WB and he despises WB's. So, I saved my money and didn't order him any and that's fine with him. I don't think he'll do much more than play. . .
Cay, there are certain seasons for things. Don't beat yourself up. Its called " March Madness" and it happens to all of us in one way or another. . .that guilt that they didn't learn enough.
There's still time to delve into a couple Rabbit Trails before summer. . .and maybe you could sneak one in during the summer. 
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Mary G
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I've found too that sometimes workbooks are just what one or another needs. Think of it as comfort food like Mac'n'Cheese -- you KNOW that the packaged kind isn't the best food for them, but occasionally it's just what they want and "need". My kids do workbooks sporadically -- Thomas especially likes to work in his math book about once every two weeks or so just to show Dad what he's learned....
works for us and as Sarah said, "don't beat yourself up" -- it's called "monday morning homeschooling"
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MaryG
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Sarah
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| Posted: March 15 2006 at 2:17pm | IP Logged
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I don't know who coined the phrase, but I'm borrowing it
MARCH MADNESS
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marianne
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I must be ignorant. Can you ladies elaborate on how you teach these subjects without any workbooks? I'm familiar with unschooling and all that, but not in a concrete way. How exactly do they really learn their grammar rules? Lots of dictation and copywork? Thanks.
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garflick
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| Posted: March 16 2006 at 2:50pm | IP Logged
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There is nothing wrong with workbooks and I'm so glad to know that everyone isn't perfect!!!
Some say not to teach grammar until they are about ten as it is abstract, depends on the child.
And as a former school teacher, they do the same thing in the schools-every year or less there is some new fad that everyoen follows that they all have to relearn some new way. For some kids they pick up on that fine and some don't. The teachers in the school also question the materials and mix things. Then finally they get a routine and feel comfortable.
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Shari in NY
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We're still using the grammar workbooks but the spelling was a lot of what seemed like "busy"work. Anyway, the boys are happily back to AVKO spelling and hopefully retaining something. And I think alot can be learned from workbooks without finishing them. It is hard to pick up that autumn enthusiasm after the Holidays. I always think that if I get through February without making some huge purchase or worse--enrolling my kids in school (which happened one VERY snowy winter) I'm ahead of the game.
Shari in NY
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Sarah
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My kids were off to piano this afternoon with a reading workbook, phonics workbook, and music theory workbook to do with dh while waiting for their lessons. They like the one on one with Dad helping in the WB and he likes to help them (but wouldn't know where to start without a WB) 
Our Rabbit Trail this month. . .workbooks!?
PS- ds9 is free to choose what to read while waiting for piano and HE chose the Seton reading WB
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Cay Gibson
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Sarah wrote:
| My kids were off to piano this afternoon with a reading workbook, phonics workbook, and music theory workbook to do with dh while waiting for their lessons. |
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Sarah, I've always used Seton's WBs for car trips (unless we were listening to audio books) and dr. appts. (unless they had their book of choice). WBs are good to grab and go. 
Sarah wrote:
| PS- ds9 is free to choose what to read while waiting for piano and HE chose the Seton reading WB |
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Was it Seton's 5th Grade Reading Comp. WB? We all enjoyed that one.
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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rose gardens
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I'm also attached to using workbooks in a few subjects. I rejoice when we get through them because it means I've taught them something. I posted a thread over in the math section about workbooks today. I'm stressing over the thought of not finishing one.
I love the book Real Learning (thanks Elizabeth), and I use many of those ideas in our home schooling. Stil, I lean heavily on workbooks. I have several younger children (3 m, 2,& twin 4) who distract my efforts at teaching and so I depend on workbooks to help organize and direct our formal studies.
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Cay Gibson
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I've never been addicted to WBs.
Books, yes! Curriculum yes! But not WBs.
I just seem to have acquired a lot of them and we're using them now than ever.
What happened to lapbooking days and nature days and FIAR days and game days and Montessori trays???
Are my dc getting older? Maybe. Have I lost my creativity? Maybe. Am I getting older? Maybe.
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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ShawnaB
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marianne wrote:
How exactly do they really learn their grammar rules? Lots of dictation and copywork? Thanks.
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I thought I'd offer a few thoughts on grammar without workbooks...for what it is worth!
I personally think that students learn grammar rules more efficiently when they are taught in the context of what they are writing. For example, when you see mistakes (run ons, fragments, incorrect punctuation)in their writing, its a good time for a mini grammar lesson.
I also think that students who are fed a steady diet of great literature, and are engaged in conversation regularly, naturally develop a good sense of proper grammar. Elements of grammar and parts of speech can be highlighted in good literature. Children can play I-Spy and find as many adjectives as they can in a passage...and then choose which one they think is most descriptive. How many verbs can they find? Are these action verbs, or passive? How did the author use language to really "show" us what was happening, rather than just tell us?
And to make sure I am covering all my bases, I have over the years (both as a teacher and as a student) referenced a little treasure called Writer's Inc. It is a handbook for Writers with an very easy-to-use format. It covers all the important topics...like quick overviews of all the grammar rules, examples of various types of essays, how to write proper sentences, strong paragraphs, details on the writing process, a how-to for research papers, and tons more. When I was teaching writing classes, I used to just read through the manual for inspiration, and would often find myself saying "aha...my students need to incorporate such-and-such skill into their writing..time for a mini-lesson."
I also question whether it is truly necessary for my children to understand what an "appositive" is, or the "nominative case" or the subjunctive complement". For those of you who are truly grammar pros, do you think this helps your writing? Now I may not be the best example here, as I do not consider myself very eloquent...but Cay is a great writer...and she admits not knowing what an "appositive" is!! 
There is the rare child who will love sentence diagramming, but still, I wonder if this is the most valuable use of their time...how high is this activity on the "real learning" meter?
Just my thoughts...anyone else?
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Shawna, wife of Jacob, mom to Abraham 8 Amelia 5 and Jillian & Jonathan age 3 years http://www.psalm121family.com
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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: March 16 2006 at 8:29pm | IP Logged
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ShawnaB wrote:
| I also question whether it is truly necessary for my children to understand what an "appositive" is, or the "nominative case" or the subjunctive complement". For those of you who are truly grammar pros, do you think this helps your writing? Now I may not be the best example here, as I do not consider myself very eloquent...but Cay is a great writer...and she admits not knowing what an "appositive" is!! |
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Huh, in self-defense,:
* only an average writer
* my dh was the one who didn't know what an appositive was (is)
Still...in admitting my weakness...you should see the edits I receive back. I show them to my dc and it makes them feel better that even published writers get the red sword across their work.
Lissa, Alice, Elizabeth, and Danielle Bean are great writers. Not me. Read our blogs. You'll see the difference. But I've come to terms with the fact that there are technical writers and medical writers and inspirational writers and children writers and novelists. We just have to find the area we are called to do.
Catholic author Ann Ball wrote a piece for Literature Alive! . I was so honored she would take time from her busy schedule to help me. I think I was gushing too much and she laughed at me. She humbly admitted that all she did was a lot of research then compile all the research into a book. She said it was as simple as that. I still doubt it's as simple as that, but she was very humble and very generous...very Catholic.
I have learned more from online exposure and lots of reading than I ever learned in school...in textbook or workbook. So there!
I am always improving...or hope I am.
I would rather my dc know how to read well, enjoy what they read, and be able to write intelligibly instead of identify all the technical stuff like a robot. Still, I have learned that grammar rules do (can) make a better writer.
But not everyone becomes a teacher or a writer. And then there are computers and copy editors. Yeah, that's the easy way out.
But, honestly, does anyone other than teachers (and the student taking the test) need to know what an appositive is?
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
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lapazfarm
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Interesting discussion! I consider myself a good writer, but more of a technical writer than anything. My publications have been in obscure (to most) scientific journals. I cannot for the life of me remember what an appositive is or the nominative case, etc. However, I know I used to know, and having learned it once, the subject is familiar and the lessons learned carry over into my writing on a subconcious level. Much like having read Jane Austin might carry over into a novelists works. I think it is important to learn the rules of grammar, but not to belabor the point, especially at a young age. Just exposing young children to excellent writing teaches much, but it is also important later on for them to understand the "why" of great writing. That can be done briefly in middle school and reinforced again in high school. Whether that is done through workbooks, textbooks, diagramming (which is GREAT for kinesthetic learners, btw) or through mini-lessons during writing, is up to the teacher and student's learning style. I don't do anything more than schoolhouse rock for my little ones, plus mini lessons to correct errors in writing much like Shawna describes. Can my 10 yo tell you what an appositive is? No way. But he sure can write.
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
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Kathryn UK
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I have never even heard of an appositive (until now) so don't have the faintest clue what it is. I know what a nominative case is, but only in Latin . Grammar American style simply isn't taught here. In English lessons we get taught the basics (nouns, verbs, adjectives and so on) and that is it. Any other grammar study comes as part of learning a foreign language. At least, that is how it was in my schooldays. Now I think most kids never get anything beyond the basics.
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Mary G
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Cay Gibson wrote:
| Am I getting older? Maybe. |
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Yes, but Cay, remember two things:
the alternative to geting older AND
no matter how old you get, I'll always be older
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MaryG
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Sarah
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Cay Gibson wrote:
What happened to lapbooking days and nature days and FIAR days and game days and Montessori trays???
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Maybe you're just sick of those things and need a break. I can imagine that the enthusiasm of those types of projects could wear off. . .
Maybe you could move on to other types of creative things.
My oldest son woke up this morning expecting green oatmeal for St. P's Day and I told him I didn't even have any dye. He remembers that I did that when he was younger. . .I also used to cut his sandwiches into shapes with cookie cutters and put little treats for eyes. These younger kids will never see a Teddy Bear sandwich, I'm just on into doing that anymore. However, my oldest didn't go to a St. P's carnival when he was little like these little ones will tomorrow--since they tag along to events for the sake of the olders.
I need to get to my point. . .There really is a season for certain things in our lives. It all evens out in the end.
Speaking of poor writing, I hope I made sense
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ShawnaB
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Sarah wrote:
I need to get to my point. . .There really is a season for certain things in our lives. It all evens out in the end.
Speaking of poor writing, I hope I made sense |
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Thank you for that bit of encouraging wisdom! So true.
And I just couldn't resist:
"An appositive phrase , which follows a noun or pronoun and renames it, consists of a noun and its modifiers. An appositive adds new information about the noun or pronoun it follows.
The Trans-Siberian Railroad, the world's longest railwary, stretches from Moscow to Vladivostok. (The appositive phrase renames the Trans-Siberian Railroad and provides new information.)
From Writer's Inc pg. 521
Now we are all a little more grammar savvy!
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Shawna, wife of Jacob, mom to Abraham 8 Amelia 5 and Jillian & Jonathan age 3 years http://www.psalm121family.com
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Workbooks vs. Real Learning
