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mama2many
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| Posted: June 07 2010 at 7:38am | IP Logged
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Can you use Seton with CM learning?
I am VERY VERY green to homeschooling, I NEVER thought I'd be one of "those" moms..LOL  But here I am.. we started in March, and I'm using the workbox system now and its going REALLY WELL!! But we are also using Seton (as my disorganized mind needed as much "done for me" as possible)
We are going year round with "little" breaks.. (like having a baby) for K and 3rd and some preK and toddler stuff.
So, does Seton work w/ the CM philosophy?
Thanks ladies, and God Bless
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CrunchyMom
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Not really.
I know there are many people on these boards who have used Seton in a variety of ways with different levels of success.
But as a program, it is a traditional school out of the box, textbook based program.
And different people have had different successes with modifying the workbox system too. It does work really well for a lot of families.
But it isn't really CM either.
Now, you can use ANY program adopting CM's philosophies about regarding children as whole persons, instilling virtue and discipline, etc... You could even use resources from some programs like Seton in order to incorporate them into a more CM based curriculum.
But with CM's emphasis on living books and dislike of textbooks, my opinion would be, no, not really. And if you really want a curriculum to modify to use CM methods, there are other programs which are more compatible.
This isn't to say that Seton is bad, just that it isn't very CM. Even workboxes are not a very CM method in and of themselves.
Few of us on the boards are purists regarding any one philosophy. So of course, you can absolutely take aspects of CM and use them in your home while adopting other choices, too. But, imho, Seton is probably the least CM of the boxed curricula and would require more supplementation rather than modification to make it "work" with CM, and by the time you supplement a lot, you might as well start with something else.
Not trying to make any sort of judgment about either Seton or workboxes--just trying to answer your question about whether they work with CM philosophy. And since so much of this sort of thing is pretty subjective, I'm sure you'll get other people with a different perspective!
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Kathryn
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We're finishing our 1st year HS and we enrolled in Seton. While I think it is a very sound and wonderful program, it is as Lindsay said "school at home" and to follow their program is pretty intense and to have the time to add all the other CM type stuff has not been workable...for me. May be that's just been my overall lack of discipline and organization being a 1st timer. Plus I have a very, very busy 2 year old who doesn't like to sleep so much and I'm pregnant with another due in 4 months so that has some bearing on how things get accomplished.
My plan next year is to possibly buy just a couple of their programs (entering 4th and 6th). They will prob. do their English/Grammar (prob. Phonics for the younger) and Math. Everything else, I will prob. use other programs that are not quite as time intensive or look for unit study type programs I can do with them together combining things such as History, Geography, Literature. I will prob. pull Spelling from their own journal writings and day-to-day questions. May be....
Anyway...that's just my experience as a 1st time HS and with Seton. It's been very overwhelming for me to try and keep up with all the individual subjects for each individual child. I may move back into more "enrolled" subjects once my oldest hits 8th or 9th grade to have more accountability and record-keeping but I don't think I need it at this level.
Hope that helps...here comes the 2 year old now,
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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Becky Parker
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Mama2many,
If you really feel like you need a program, we are enrolled with Mother of Divine Grace and I find it very
CM friendly. It's very gentle in the early years, the history is based on a spine but filled with wonderful literature to read about the time period being studied. It includes copywork, dictation, picture study, etc.
For us it was a nice compromise. I really love CM and incorporate it ALOT in our school day. But I also needed the accountability that a program provides. MODG allows me to do both.
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Becky
Wife to Wes, Mom to 6 wonderful kids on Earth and 4 in Heaven!
Academy Of The Good Shepherd
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SeaStar
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| Posted: June 07 2010 at 10:04am | IP Logged
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CHC is also very hands on and CM friendly.
Catholic Heritage Curricula
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
SQUILT Music Appreciation
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: June 07 2010 at 10:06am | IP Logged
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Becky Parker wrote:
Mama2many,
If you really feel like you need a program, we are enrolled with Mother of Divine Grace and I find it very
CM friendly. It's very gentle in the early years, the history is based on a spine but filled with wonderful literature to read about the time period being studied. It includes copywork, dictation, picture study, etc.
For us it was a nice compromise. I really love CM and incorporate it ALOT in our school day. But I also needed the accountability that a program provides. MODG allows me to do both. |
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I believe Laura Berquist has said that she was influenced a good bit by Charlotte Mason!
__________________
Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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JennGM
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| Posted: June 07 2010 at 10:13am | IP Logged
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This has been discussed before...I found a few threads:
::Seton and Real Learning
::Using Seton Home Study School curriculum
::Regimented "Natural Learning"
::Seton Question…
::Changing gears - from boxed curic to CM
I think there are elements of CM you could incorporate, but as far as the whole philosophy, it would be difficult because Seton has a very rigorous schedule.
Some isolated elements that you could incorporate after the Seton checked work is done:
::Read alouds -- bedtime, teatime after schoolwork. Some elements of narration could be incorporated. After reading, maybe during bathtime or mealtime just ask questions about what they are reading. Lots of picture books.
::Nature Study -- Set a day a week to have formal nature study. Perhaps make the schedule so you have a free day a week to incorporate extra art and nature study.
Having Bird feeders, gardens, etc. are ways to inspire and motivate nature study. Nature journaling can happen anywhere and anytime.
::Book of Centuries -- Nothing elaborate, but it wouldn't take much time to make the notebook at the beginning of the year and start inserting information regarding figures. Or make a timeline to hang and put figures along where you are stuyding.
::Reading Material -- I know this is an unschooling term, but intentional strewing would be really helpful. Get ideas from booklists for supplemental living reading (picture books, too), reflecting especially the areas you are covering in your studies at the time, the nature season out doors, the liturgical season or feasts of the month.
There are down times in the day that you want to encourage reading on their own. Just having books on the shelf doesn't always "work". I find if I pull out books and look at them, or check out books, that interests my son to look at them.
::Books on Audio -- another way to encourage reading. Car rides, afternoon snack, even lunchtime play some good books. Jim Weiss cds are wonderful.
::Music -- Remember to play good music, classical, Gregorian Chant, hymns, polyphony, folk, musicals, march music, nursery rhymes. Beethoven's Wig cds have been so wonderful in introducing classical music AND the composers.
::Art -- field trips, picture books introducing artists and their work (Mike Venezia and his DVDs and books!). CM art study is very simple to implement, and only takes a few minutes. Maybe someone can plug in the instructions or a link to fill in the blank here.
Anyway, the list is long, but these are ideas that can be incorporated into your daily life without feeling like you're adding more schoolwork. Hang them on certain pegs of the day, like meal times, car trips, quiet time, etc. to make it easy to remember.
Technically, it's not making Seton CM friendly, but ideas to make your family life a CM friendly way.
__________________
Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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CrunchyMom
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Yk, my approach (once I decided I favored CM philosophies) has been to start pure and work backwards.
So, early on, I spent a good bit of time reading at Simply Charlotte Mason, Ambleside, and Mater Amabilis and looked at their sample curricula and schedules and got a good idea of what a completely Charlotte Mason education looked like according to the "authorities." This gave me an idea of the subjects I wanted to cover at the various ages. Then, I sort of took a step back and experimented a bit or anticipated my own children's tastes and temperaments and figured out what I might need to modify.
For instance, in reading, at least now, I find I prefer a more phonics based approach as better for *most* children (as opposed to the method that CM proposes), so I plan to teach reading more along those lines.
In math, I really like more Montessori methods and the philosophies and am currently using Right Start for math.
Also in reading, I find my boys like workbooks and really ENJOY doing Explode the Code. If my kids hated workbooks, I love that CM allows me the freedom not to force it (unlike more traditional programs that rely on it), but I'm not so much a purist that I'll throw out something that is effective for my children.
For most subjects, you can find programs that lay things out. So, you don't have to start completely from scratch!
Also, places like Simply Charlotte Mason have resources such as their online planner which make it easier to balance a CM style education with multiple children and keep records. The archives and discussions here are a wealth.
I realize and understand the fear that many first time homeschoolers have of *needing* a set curriculum and accountability and record keeping. My children are still so young, and my husband, though still helping to keep me honest, is a bit more relaxed than some I know. I just don't have anxiety in this area. But, I do feel that there are great resources available that make it very feasible to put together your own curriculum and not so overwhelming as people fear. I do feel blessed to have begun my journey early, and my boys are still so young. I would just encourage someone interested in CM and providing a living education to at least entertain the idea of approaching it whole-heartedly rather than letting the anxiety push them towards the boxed curriculum which isn't really what they want but just feels "safe." Especially early on, since, from what I've seen, it will just be harder and there will be more pressure as the children get older. I kind of think its easier for me to do my own thing from the beginning than for someone to use a packaged curriculum and then give it up and do their own thing later or to take a lesson plan and resources chosen by someone else for particular reasons and attempt to modify them to work in a way they were not intended.
Hope I was able to express my passion without any sort of negativity or pressure. NO PRESSURE! NO ANXIETY ALLOWED!  Just relaying my own journey a bit.
__________________
Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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mama2many
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| Posted: June 07 2010 at 11:58am | IP Logged
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Thank you very much for your honest replies!! As I said I'm new to this and we're still "working out the kinks".. as it were.
I am open to learning more about making hte learning more FUN and less "work" but dh and I are both really "schooled" kids, his mother was an educator in public schools for 40+ years, so just taking this step has left us  a bit bruised in some eyes... But we feel that daily we're shown that this is really what God wants for our family!!
So I'm listening to you all!!!
__________________
Krystin
wife to Kevin
mama to
M (12/00)
J (12/01)
K (6/06)
J (7/08)
A (7/10)
C (11/12)
My Clones in Action
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Mackfam
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| Posted: June 07 2010 at 12:55pm | IP Logged
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Welcome, welcome, mama2many! It's so great to have you here!!!
mama2many wrote:
Can you use Seton with CM learning?
I am VERY VERY green to homeschooling, I NEVER thought I'd be one of "those" moms..LOL But here I am.. we started in March, and I'm using the workbox system now and its going REALLY WELL!! But we are also using Seton (as my disorganized mind needed as much "done for me" as possible)
We are going year round with "little" breaks.. (like having a baby) for K and 3rd and some preK and toddler stuff.
So, does Seton work w/ the CM philosophy? |
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I'll start by saying that Seton works great for some families. They offer much to the Catholic Home Education community!
Lindsay and Jenn have given such great advice!
Jenn's list is a really great place to start considering!
JennGM wrote:
Some isolated elements that you could incorporate after the Seton checked work is done:
::Read alouds -- bedtime, teatime after schoolwork. Some elements of narration could be incorporated. After reading, maybe during bathtime or mealtime just ask questions about what they are reading. Lots of picture books.
::Nature Study -- Set a day a week to have formal nature study. Perhaps make the schedule so you have a free day a week to incorporate extra art and nature study.
Having Bird feeders, gardens, etc. are ways to inspire and motivate nature study. Nature journaling can happen anywhere and anytime.
::Book of Centuries -- Nothing elaborate, but it wouldn't take much time to make the notebook at the beginning of the year and start inserting information regarding figures. Or make a timeline to hang and put figures along where you are stuyding.
::Reading Material -- I know this is an unschooling term, but intentional strewing would be really helpful. Get ideas from booklists for supplemental living reading (picture books, too), reflecting especially the areas you are covering in your studies at the time, the nature season out doors, the liturgical season or feasts of the month.
There are down times in the day that you want to encourage reading on their own. Just having books on the shelf doesn't always "work". I find if I pull out books and look at them, or check out books, that interests my son to look at them.
::Books on Audio -- another way to encourage reading. Car rides, afternoon snack, even lunchtime play some good books. Jim Weiss cds are wonderful.
::Music -- Remember to play good music, classical, Gregorian Chant, hymns, polyphony, folk, musicals, march music, nursery rhymes. Beethoven's Wig cds have been so wonderful in introducing classical music AND the composers.
::Art -- field trips, picture books introducing artists and their work (Mike Venezia and his DVDs and books!). CM art study is very simple to implement, and only takes a few minutes. Maybe someone can plug in the instructions or a link to fill in the blank here. |
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Lindsay and Jenn are right, Seton, though a good program and very workable and a great fit for some families, would not be what I would consider a program that would integrate well with a CM approach because of the rigor and expectations. So, these comments aren't so much reflective of Seton, as they are on the meshing of two very different philosophies.
I loved Lindsay's perspective:
CrunchyMom wrote:
| Yk, my approach (once I decided I favored CM philosophies) has been to start pure and work backwards. |
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This is a lovely thought! And this is how I would identify as well. CM is our anchor in terms of philosophy, but we use what works for our family in our family situation.
You may have found that Seton has been a good fit for you this year - it's your first year homeschooling, a new baby - that's a lot!
My suggestion for you would be to sit down and make a few lists and do some reading.
** Think about your year with Seton and write down some pros and cons as you reflect.
(Be honest with these lists or they are of no use or value - they're only for you to help you brainstorm!)
** Now consider what attracts you to CM philosophies. Read more on her philosophy if needed. Take a look at what folks here do, look at Mater Amabilis and Ambleside Online. Make some more lists - what do you like? what speaks to your heart with this philosophy? what makes sense? What are the benefits of a CM philosophy for you and your family and what areas do you see as a negative, or as an area that would not work well for your family?
** Make another list - consider your kids and their needs...their strengths...weaknesses.
Take a look at your lists....where do you find the thoughts and needs intersecting most? Where is the common area? This area is probably where you will gravitate towards most in your home education - it's your comfort zone. This varies from family to family and that is the GREAT thing about home education - it can FIT AND FLATTER each family!
Stretch too far away from your comfort zone at any one time and you'll likely feel overwhelmed. While it is possible to integrate curriculum from different sources and philosophies in your home, the greater the stretch from something like Seton to Charlotte Mason, the less natural it will feel. Integrating, while not seamless, should flow. If you're constantly going over massive speed bumps in your day, it won't flow smoothly and you'll likely end up overwhelmed trying to make it work.
So...my 2 cents would be to make some lists, begin to consider what language/philosophy most speaks to your family style/needs, and consider ways of implementing and integrating in your home so that days are smooth and have a natural flow to them. Sounds like workboxes are working great for you...so you're off to a really great start!
Once you've got a good idea of your family educational philosophy, I know it can seem overwhelming. Your next question is likely, "Ok....WHAT NOW???" We can help there, too! If you want to brainstorm some ways to plan in a CM way or need help **visualizing** how to live out plans that you design to fit your family, we can DEFINITELY DO THAT!
Hope this helps some mama2many! Good luck!
__________________
Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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MamaFence
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great great thread. I'm going to be stalking it as I learn more. ;)
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: June 09 2010 at 9:18am | IP Logged
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mama2many wrote:
Thank you very much for your honest replies!! As I said I'm new to this and we're still "working out the kinks".. as it were.
I am open to learning more about making hte learning more FUN and less "work" but dh and I are both really "schooled" kids, his mother was an educator in public schools for 40+ years, so just taking this step has left us a bit bruised in some eyes... But we feel that daily we're shown that this is really what God wants for our family!!
So I'm listening to you all!!! |
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I'm so glad this thread is helpful for you!
One thing your post made me question, and then later that day I actually came across a quote addressing it, was "fun." I wasn't sure how to articulate it myself, so coming across the topic in my own planning seemed timely, and I thought I would share.
From When Children Love to Learn:
Quote:
| Some who have read Charlotte Mason think that in teaching their own children, they can apply her ideas according to personal whims. Finding out how powerfully a child learns and responds to literature, some make the mistake of believing that reading mostly enjoyable literary books will offer a complete education! Others are afraid of any textbook. They have the mistaken idea that every school subject should be "fun." Practicing the scales while learning to play the piano, learning new vocabulary when studying French, learning the times tables need not be fun at all. We must understand that "everything in life includes duty." But it is our job to balance duty and fun. Such "drills," if they don't last too long, become part of a routine. A curriculum can insure that we offer a balanced education to the child. |
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Just clarifying that Charlotte Mason probably would not have used the word "fun" to describe her method, and fun isn't my goal, though I hope that we often have fun learning together. I think "joy" might be a better word? Children find "joy" in learning from an early age and a living education helps preserve that joy. CM said, "Education is an atmosphere, a discipline, a life." It CAN be fun, of course, but it can also be fulfilling when it isn't fun at all. My child might NEVER have fun doing math, but I can still approach math in an individual way which fosters their love for learning, goes at their own pace, and helps them apply it in a way they will best appreciate it.
I hope that makes sense. I could ramble a long time and likely never say exactly what I mean, lol.
__________________
Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Topic: Seton as CM?
