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Elizabeth
Founder
Real Learning
Joined: Jan 20 2005
Location: Virginia
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Posts: 5595
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| Posted: March 03 2006 at 5:48am | IP Logged
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In the wake of the recent decision at the Sonlight forums, several of you have asked about a Sonlight forum here. You have always been welcome to discuss Sonlight here, whether it's just evaluating what they have to offer in general or tweaking Sonlight specifically. Several of us are Sonlight "experts" who have the entire catalog memorized and have used Sonlight extensively. We have learned along the way how to take a very academic, very Protestant program and give it a Real Learning twist. We're always happy to wrestle with a question either here (for general questions) or on the history board (for questions specific to historical literature). If the time comes that the questions need better organization on a forum of their own, we can do that, too. Remember that SL-Catholic at yahoogroups still exists and it is still a great place to be.
And, just for the record, I heartily disagree with John Holzmann. There is great value in things that are free. You can't put a price on the community here.
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: March 03 2006 at 8:16am | IP Logged
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I have been following the latest Sonlight mess carefully, because I am a longtime Sonlight user/tweaker. I've had growing concerns about Sonlight for the last 2 or so years, but wished to assume the very best.
I'm so very sad over many many things that have changed with Sonlight. Its not just this recent decision...its a host of things. Be that as it may, I feel compelled to say that I can no longer in good conscience endorse or recommend Sonlight Curriculum. I've spoken of it here before enthusiastically, so I wanted to let y'all know. I resigned from the Sonlight Catholic Moderators team this morning, not because of that loop, which I love, but because of Sonlight, the business.
Its a sad day for me. 
~Books
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Meredith
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I've missed alot while out of town, can someone link to what's going on?? I'll also check the Sonlight forum, it's been forever since I looked there. Thanks so much.
From a Sonlight *tweaker*.
__________________
Meredith
Mom of 4 Sweeties
Sweetness and Light
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mary
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| Posted: March 03 2006 at 12:51pm | IP Logged
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i have used sonlight for 3 years but don't post much on their boards. i'm wondering, books, why you feel that way if you don't mind sharing?
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Bookswithtea
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Hi,
Its been a long day...sorry it took me so long to get back to you both.
You can go to www.sonlight.com, click on "forums" and read the "feedback" forum to discover how other people are responding to SL's recent decisions.
You can go to http://1.myfreebulletinboard.com/sonlightrefugee/sonlightref ugee.html to see where others are talking.
Be forewarned that there are some very very angry people. Some of these posts are just plain mean, but in between you can see and hear the hurt of others.
John Holzmann, owner of Sonlight Curriculum, sent out a forumwide letter as follows:
I wish I could express to you all that is in my heart. I am aware I
am unable to do so. And, even if I were able, as I have learned over
the past few years, I ought not to try to express absolutely
everything I could. In the world as it is today, it may not be wise
to speak with total candor. But I intend, here, to speak with far
greater candor than most of us may be used to.
Let me say that it has been with joy . . . and, honestly, some real
sadness . . . that I have anticipated today's changes on the
Sonlight forums.
Joy: Because I am convinced we are making the right move and, as I
explain a bit later in this letter, what we are doing now will mean
the forums have a much deeper and more positive impact on a lot of
families.
Sadness: Because I realize that, though very much motivated by the
positive things I have just alluded to, the changes were also
motivated by negative factors I had tried to ignore for a long time--
factors that I realize we at Sonlight could not, in good conscience,
ignore any longer.
The "waking up" to these negative factors has caused me sadness.
*****
In my "announcement" letter a couple of weeks ago, I mentioned part
of the "waking up": the climax of negative behavior we experienced
on the forums last fall. . . .
If you wonder why behavior that took place four and five months ago
has only now issued forth in changes: it's because it took us that
long to get the programming in place and to think and pray through
the policies and the language and the . . . --everything that is
involved in big changes.
So the change is finally taking place today.
I am writing today, however, because I wanted to tell you more about
what is happening . . . and why. I wanted to give you a bit of
an "insiders' view" of what has been happening at Sonlight and the
kind of thinking that we've had to do.
Let me preface my remarks by noting that no matter what we do at
Sonlight, I am convinced we will be criticized. And though one never
takes pleasure in being criticized, I try to avoid becoming
discouraged simply because of the fact that people criticize
something I do. (As I told a friend of mine who was shocked at my
happy responses to criticism I received about a book I once
wrote: "Hey! Why shouldn't I be grateful for the criticism? If it's
off the mark: I let it go. It's water off a duck's back. But if it's
correct: the fact that someone is willing to share their perspective
with me is priceless! It means I can change; I can improve!")
A marketing leader to whom I pay a lot of attention says if you
don't experience criticism (along with praise) for what you're
doing, then you're not doing your job right. If you operate in such
a way that you receive no criticism at all, then you're being too
timid; you're not "pushing the envelope" . . . and that means you're
not acquiring the maximum positive results for the efforts you are
expending.
We at Sonlight want to achieve maximum positive results for our
efforts. So we will always seek to "push the envelope" a bit. We
will try to take the criticisms in stride (try to learn whatever we
can from them) and move on.
*****
So what's up with these forum changes? Why is Sonlight doing what it
is doing . . . besides wanting to know more accurately, and to
control more fully, who visits the forums?
In sum: We are "taking the forums private." We are seeking to make
them into as big a benefit as possible for our customers.
I want to stress the words in that summary.
For several months, many of us who were working on this project
spoke of shifting the forums from a "free" to a "paid" model. But
that description was inaccurate.
We have little if any interest in making the forums a profit center
for Sonlight. Yes, we are making the service available for a fee to
people who are otherwise not customers of Sonlight. But the primary
reason we are offering the forums to people "outside" is not to get
them to pay for the service as much as it is to encourage Sonlight
customers themselves to use the forums. (More on that in a moment.)
The primary value to Sonlight in having forum users register through
our Sonlight Curriculum Online Purchasing System (SCOPS), is to
integrate the forums into Sonlight's overall marketing and customer
service strategy.
We started the forums with the thought that they would enable us to
communicate effectively to our customers and our customers to
effectively communicate to us--i.e., as a marketing and customer
service vehicle. Sadly, over the years, I believe they have, in many
ways, become a hindrance to our expected level of communication. (I
could expand on that theme, but I don't think the details are
important here.)
If nothing else, let me say that the forums have certainly not been
as effective as we'd like them to be as tools for communication with
our customers!
*****
I'd like to share a couple of stories that may help you understand
some of the other forces that have shaped our new private forums
strategy.
First, as I mentioned in a post last November, I got talking with
some former medical missionaries to Ethiopia. They said they had
learned a lesson when they worked in Ethiopia.
At first, they said, when they first went to Ethiopia, they had
handed out pharmaceuticals for free. After all, they thought, the
Ethiopians are so desperately poor. Why should we burden them with
this expense . . . especially since the pharmaceuticals are either
donated by the drug companies or purchased by willing donors back in
the United States?
When they followed this policy, however, these medical missionaries
found that the recipients of the drugs almost never took the drugs
as prescribed. Often, they failed to take the drugs at all.
Why? Because they viewed the drugs as of little value.
Only when the missionaries began to charge for the pharmaceuticals
did the recipients actually pay attention to what the doctors said
and use the drugs as they were supposed to be used.
Why? Because only then did the recipients value them. . . .
I could multiply stories like this.
*****
Another story that illustrates much the same quirk of human nature,
but from another direction.
For some reason, I have gotten on the list of investment newsletter
advertisers. So they send me offers: "Buy our newsletter." And in
their offers, they often add a line like this: "Subscribe today and
receive--FREE--a $149 value bonus: weekly electronic updates. Just
send us your email address . . . "
Now what subscriber in her right mind would NOT sign up for this
valuable bonus? "$149 Value FREE? . . . Hey! I'm paying for the
regular subscription, why would I *not* sign up for the
bonus?" . . . And so, without further thought, subscribers to the
print publication give the newsletter publisher NOT ONLY their
physical street addresses; they give the publisher their email
addresses as well.
This past Christmas I bought a digital camera. The manufacturer
offered a $50 rebate. All I had to do was fill out the warranty
registration card ["Card must be completely filled out!" said the
rebate certificate] and send it in. --Well, what is on that warranty
registration card? All my personal
information: declarations about my likes and dislikes, my interests;
details about my family . . .
And what did I do? I filled out the warranty registration card and
sent it in. Because I wanted the $50 rebate.
*****
I have been thinking about this quirk of human nature with respect
to the Sonlight forums.
For several years we have known that possibly as many as half of the
participants on the forums have never purchased anything from
Sonlight.
We have also recognized that fewer than 10 percent of our customers
ever visit the forums.
And, more and more lately, we have realized that a few of the more
outspokenly negative participants on the forums have been non-
customers.
Put all these observations and insights together and we came up with
a plan:
Tell Sonlighters that one of the benefits they receive for
buying from Sonlight is a free "subscription" to or "membership" in -
-
or they receive free "access" to -- support forums that have a $__
value.
This kind of message should increase the perceived value of the
forums to Sonlight customers so more of them will actually
participate!
That would be a very good thing!
Only one problem. How can we possibly apply a "value" to something
that we are giving away for free? Especially if and when we are
giving it away for free to absolutely everyone who wants to
participate? It's no "special benefit" of buying from Sonlight.
Sonlight customers, by their patronage, are, indeed, making the
forums possible. But they are actually making them available to all
comers--Sonlighters AND OTHERS. So, we realized,
* We have to charge non-Sonlighters for the privilege of
participating . . . IF they are going to participate at all.
* If we charge non-Sonlighters for the privilege, it actually boosts
the value of buying from Sonlight to those customers who qualify for
free access. They know they get this "extra" $__ value from Sonlight
that they DON'T get when they purchase from any other company.
* By couching our value proposition in words like these, we hope we
might possibly help tip the balance for financially hard-pressed
customers to buy Sonlight packages rather than trying to piece-meal
their programs: "I can buy all these things from [Sonlight
competitor] and save $__ on the MATERIALS. I can then buy access to
the Sonlight FORUMS for $___ . . . Or I can I can get the whole
package from Sonlight, make it easier on myself, AND save $__."
But, we also thought:
* Let's make it easier for people to qualify for free "membership"
or "access" than having to buy an entire Core program! (Of course.)
* By requiring people to use the same email address as the one with
which they registered on the Sonlight Curriculum Online Purchasing
System (SCOPS), we should be able to cut WAY down on inaccurate
forum registrations. (A larger problem than we have ever mentioned
in public to this point.)
* If [previously] non-customers purchase "membership" or "access" to
the forums, by that very action they automatically become Sonlight
customers. That opens opportunities for developing better
relationships than we have ever been able to develop under the
current/former system in which adult participants often gave less
than accurate information to sign up.
* By using SCOPS and its credit card processing system, initial
registration will not only be smooth and easy . . . but we will have
about as positive a means of identifying participants as one can
hope for over the web. [Credit card processors are persnickety about
details like names and addresses!]
I could go on. There are more intricate and arcane legal, ethical,
and social issues involved in this transition: responsibilities that
Sonlight shoulders whether we make the forums private or not, but
that become significantly less burdensome if and as we go private.
*****
I have, here, pretty well outlined what I said I wanted to do in
this letter.
I have told you WHAT we are changing and I have explained the real
guts of WHY we are making the changes.
Recognizing that you have been a faithful forum participant in the
past, I have given you the opportunity here to catch some glimpses
of larger marketing changes that will become apparent when you see
our new catalog in April.
If you are a customer, I believe you will find these changes very
positive.
If you are not a customer and have no desire to become a Sonlight
customer--even at the minimal level required to participate in our
newly privatized forums--I feel some sadness that our relationship
has to end at this time and in this way. At the same time, I hope
you can understand that Sonlight has a greater obligation to look
after the interests of its customers than the interests of those who
have no intention of ever purchasing from the company.
If, you are a current non-customer or you are a customer but fail to
qualify for free access to our new forums, I sincerely hope to see
you "on the other side." Your participation will give me (and, I
know, many others) great pleasure.
If you decide you no longer want to be a member of our community, I
bid you a pleasant farewell. I (and we at Sonlight) pray you will
pursue God's best in all you do.
Sincerely,
John Holzmann
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: March 03 2006 at 3:55pm | IP Logged
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Sigh...Its so hard for me to answer the question "why" without writing a book.
I've had growing concerns for a long time now, but I have chosen to assume the best, until now. I'm not mad specifically about the newest Sonlight decisions. Its more like they are the final straw, kwim?
Sonlight used to be very family friendly. In the last 5 years they have added more and more work to their manuals, making them the equivalent of gorging on books rather than enjoying books. I am hesitant to recommend SL cores anymore because the manuals are just overwhelming and have a tendency to make busy homeschool moms feel like a failure. I've used just about all the books from pk-core 6, but I have personally butchered the program and the manual so much so that its not really fair to say I "do" Sonlight.
I think their language arts programs are not just accelerated; they are exponentially accelerated. Do 3rd graders really need to know what a gerund is?
There are several levels that require significant revision to be appropriate for a Catholic family. In times past, there wasn't much else available so it was worth it to do the work. That's not the case anymore. There are plenty of other options that are not only good, but maybe even better than Sonlight, because the child is not burned out and Mom feels good at the end of the day, rather than out of breath from trying to teach too much.
My personal philosophy of education has developed since I first started using SL. I subscribe to the "better late than early" point of view. Sonlight's early cores are the antithesis of this. Core K has a book in it that is recommended for 5th grade and up, for example.
I posted in another thread recently that I think I have failed my guinea pig first child by giving him too much history too soon, even though I have not used all of what Sonlight schedules for each year. He hates it now. My second child has done 1/3 of what my first child received for history, and loves history. I can't help but take that into consideration, especially when it matches well with developmental theory about children.
I'm shocked that John would send a forumwide letter out telling people that their loyal use of Sonlight is worth nothing unless they purchase a certain amount of product per year or pay to use their forums. Their examples of how "people don't appreciate things unless they pay for them" are positively ...I can't even think of the right word. 
Finally, I believe that Sonlight takes advantage of its user community. They refuse to maintain an 800 number with paid curriculum counselors and send people to their boards instead, where they allow their loyal user community to sell their product for them. While most of their forums are now blind to those who don't register and qualify, the Choosing forum is still available. I think that's just cheesy, for lack of a better word.
There's a lot more I could say about how Sonlight has changed over the years. I have a friend who sent me excerpts from old catalogues, marking the change from a ministry based business to a cut throat business.
They've decimated their user community, who in their anger have in some cases now turned on each other.
I resigned from the SL Catholic moderating team because I believe that moderation of the loop is a de facto endorsement of Sonlight Curriculum. I'm really sad about it, but I won't be able to sleep at night if I don't do it.
Elizabeth articulates a lot of this better than I did. Maybe she will post and share some of her thoughts?
Hope this helps,
~Books
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Jerin's Zoo
Forum Rookie
Joined: March 03 2006
Location: Utah
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| Posted: March 03 2006 at 4:08pm | IP Logged
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Just checking in. For the past 3-4 years, I've been a very active member of the Sonlight forums. I've volunteered in their booths, at local groups and on the forums, where several people have posted in support of me that my advice is what sold them on SL. I've done volunteer research on materials that they might add. But apparently, their business philosophy has changed, and the ONLY customers they value are the ones that directly pay up. Buying your friend's used curriculum so they can turn around and buy new makes the friend valued, but not you.
We were with Seton and Calvert before, and had a hard time getting the right fit for a 4 year old who was intellectually ready for third grade work in math and reading. We were encouraged just to keep buying more levels. Sonlight was appealing to us because of their flexibility (which they've been losing over the last 2 catalogs), and thier attitude that we COULD do this even on a budget. With those things gone, we're left wondering why we should stay.
They have a right to run their business however they want, but it is disappointing to be flung out the door like yesterday's paper.
__________________
Jerin
wife to Dan since 1994
mom to ds (6/98 ) , dd (7/99), ds (1/01), dd (2/05) and 16 more
Life at the Zoo
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mary
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| Posted: March 03 2006 at 4:11pm | IP Logged
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books,
thank you for sharing your thoughts on the changes. i did recieve the email from j. holzmann and was rather surprised that they were charging for the use of their boards.
i do agree completely with you that sonlight LA is superaccelerated and have never in fact, completed a year of it. this year, i ditched it and moved to chc - blessed relief indeed. i had just today read your thread about history and your son and printed out your thoughts on history stories as compared to a timeline for the younger ages. i already see in my 7 yr old that my son much prefers the exciting stories and really doesn't hav a grasp of the timeline.
so, i have been sitting here on my sonlight/chc fence and wondering which direction to leap, or whether to combine them in some way. perhaps this is the nudge i need.
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KelleBelle
Forum Newbie
Joined: Aug 26 2005
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| Posted: March 03 2006 at 4:40pm | IP Logged
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I'm another co-moderator from the SL-Catholic loop and BooksWithTea invited me over. (Actually, I've been lurking on this list for a while!!) I'm a mother of four children and have been hs'ing for seven years. I've used parts of SL since the beginning (1999) and am on my 5th core. (With tweaking of course.) 
Anyway, this morning the discussion about SL's new regulations was asked to be stopped on SL-Catholic. I would like everyone to know that half the moderation team agrees with this decision. I however do not wish to silence any members. I have repeatedly asked the list owner to reconsider her position, to allow the list to continue sharing their thoughts and concerns; especially BooksWithTea. So far, she has not.
I really don't know what to say. I feel very bad for those members that thought we were a place they could go to and openly discuss their thoughts. We have always emphasized "use your delete key" if something offends. Moderation and banning have been used sparingly, and only after someone has broken the rules. I have never seen a discussion stopped for what *might* happen.
I too am having many reservations about Sonlight. I sat down last night and went over their selling points - the very things that *sold* me. Free shipping, encouragement to use the library, understanding of low income families' needs, small time requirements (the manuals were small!), a prominent display of Christian values, and a "we're not in it for the money" type of company.
Well, it's changed. BWT described most of my feelings. Sonlight just doesn't seem like Sonlight anymore
Seeking His guidance,
Kellie in AZ
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Jerin's Zoo
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| Posted: March 03 2006 at 5:00pm | IP Logged
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I see where the other moderators were going. It hadn't gotten at all heated yet, but had the potential of going that way.
Do any of you know if John still reads over there? I know he was really active for a while. Then some of us were talking with Sarita. Maybe it's just that she's not as comfortable with an online format for communication, but I never felt like we were really communicating.
__________________
Jerin
wife to Dan since 1994
mom to ds (6/98 ) , dd (7/99), ds (1/01), dd (2/05) and 16 more
Life at the Zoo
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Lissa
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| Posted: March 03 2006 at 5:23pm | IP Logged
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Jerin, it was discovering yesterday that even YOU did not qualify for free forum access that shocked me the most about Sonlight's decision. Your encouraging and informative posts were the first to jump out at me years ago when I began lurking at their forums.
I understand why Sonlight decided to charge for forum access, though I think it was a big mistake from both a business perspective (since the boards were a great source of free advertising) and a customer relations perspective. Certainly it is their RIGHT to charge a fee. But the criteria they came up with for distinguishing between those who qualify for free access and those who don't—these criteria were truly ill-considered. Sonlight keeps extensive order-history records; they KNOW that certain customers have bought tons of stuff over the years, just maybe not in the past 12 months. They KNOW that many of their customers are on tight budgets and have to stretch their buying out over the course of a year--the catalog is even designed to aid that process by indicating in which third of the year each book is used. They KNOW that many longtime customers do their buying in March right before the new catalog comes out (with higher prices). The April 1 05 deadline excludes a great many longtime, faithful customers. It was a bad call.
And I think John H was way off base with all the stuff about people not valuing what they get for free. Longtime forum users know he's wrong about that--they cherished those boards!
In addition, the change was made abruptly, with no warning that unless you met these very strict criteria, you'd be cut off from the forums until you paid. The "forum changes" that were hinted about in recent announcements gave no indication that regulars might find themselves shut out literally overnight (with no opportunity to exchange contact info with friends they might have known for years but with whom they communicated only through the boards). This was a shabby way to treat the faithful.
None of this affects me personally since I had long since stopped lurking on the SL boards. (No time to do so--not to mention there's 4Real now!)  I'm speaking as a spectator. But it does seem one more indication of the shift away from the humble, customer-focused, family-like company that was part of what attracted many of us to Sonlight in the first place. I never used their materials the way they were designed, but I did love the assortment of great books and the fun, warm, literature-based approach to learning about the world. In years past I recommended them enthusiastically myself (and always made sure to order from them instead of cheaper sources), but in the past year or two I found myself adding more and more caveats to my recommendations.
__________________
Lissa
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Elizabeth
Founder
Real Learning
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| Posted: March 03 2006 at 5:34pm | IP Logged
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Bookswithtea wrote:
Elizabeth articulates a lot of this better than I did. Maybe she will post and share some of her thoughts?
Hope this helps,
~Books |
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I'm spent from this morning.Lissa, Kelly, Books--you're welcome to quote my emails from today.
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Natalia
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| Posted: March 03 2006 at 10:00pm | IP Logged
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It makes me sad to read everything going on. Sonlight was my introduction to homeschooling. It was through SL that I became to appreaciate a literature base curriculum. It was SL that gave me a tool to pass down to my kids my love for history.
I never used SL as it was intended and I have not used SL for two years now but I always felt a connection to them. And I always felt free to lurk at their forums. In fact it was their forums that introduced me to internet communications. The first internet relationships I ever formed were through the SL forums. It makes me sad to see all of that dissapear...
Natalia
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Leonie
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| Posted: March 04 2006 at 5:14pm | IP Logged
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Just wanted to add a different experience - I am a member of several fitness forums, two of which switched to being paid forums.
At first, I resisted. I stayed with the free forums. But, curiosity also lead me to explore a free month's trial at each of the paid forums.
What I found was a different sort of community, but still a community of value - by paying, each member did feel a real connection and involvement. The lurkers, so to speak, were "weeded out." So, I am a member of free and via subscription forums . 
Now, I see value in both sorts of forum - paid and free. I think I can use either for my purpose.
I am not a Sonlight user, more of a Sonlight peruser, so will not use the paid forum - I rarely used the free one! But I *can see this working, given my experience with the fitness forums.
BTW, what *is the plural of forum???
__________________
Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
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garflick
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I don't like that he had to induce guilt in the letter. Why not just say it is going to cost to run the forums? and Why is it so expensive? I also dont' like the guilt in the catalogue about how people are just getting the catalogue to see the book list. As if they have some sort of patent on book lists.
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Jerin's Zoo
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I'm truly amazed how many people fell for the guilt thing. His reasoning was totally what I thought it was before he posted, but I don't see that as a reason to change my buying habits. He has every right to go after the $200 customers, but I'm still going to only spend $20, and will just go to a company who's done the math and realizing that 10 $20 customers gets them to the same place and appreciates the small buyers.
I don't get my books from Amazon (still too expensive for me) --I go for the 25 cent library castoffs. I was considering a new core last year, but by the time I checked my bookshelves and library, and took out the books that were just too Evangelical and replaced them, there were only 25% of the books in the core left. Just not worth a 10% discount to buy stuff I didn't need.
__________________
Jerin
wife to Dan since 1994
mom to ds (6/98 ) , dd (7/99), ds (1/01), dd (2/05) and 16 more
Life at the Zoo
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Rebecca
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| Posted: March 10 2006 at 1:31pm | IP Logged
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Leonie wrote:
| BTW, what *is the plural of forum??? |
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Hi Leonie, My dictionary reads "forums", just like you had it in your post!
God Bless,
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: March 10 2006 at 4:39pm | IP Logged
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Jerin's Zoo wrote:
I'm truly amazed how many people fell for the guilt thing. His reasoning was totally what I thought it was before he posted, but I don't see that as a reason to change my buying habits. He has every right to go after the $200 customers, but I'm still going to only spend $20, and will just go to a company who's done the math and realizing that 10 $20 customers gets them to the same place and appreciates the small buyers.
I was considering a new core last year, but by the time I checked my bookshelves and library, and took out the books that were just too Evangelical and replaced them, there were only 25% of the books in the core left. Just not worth a 10% discount to buy stuff I didn't need. |
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I'm always surprised by how loyal SL's user community is. It strikes me as a bit odd, as if ever voicing an opposing opinion is somehow "taboo" just because they offer a free forum (which of course, they don't do now). I've never understood it. That attitude is prevalent on the SL Catholic loop, and on other SL loops I've participated in over the years. Its like some kind of sacred cow or something.
BTW, I totally agree that Sonlight is just not really "worth it" anymore for Catholic families, at least for my family. I was just reading over at Emmanuel Books and I am amazed by how many wonderful resources available that were just not there when I first converted. I think its pretty easy these days to put together something eclectic in the style of whatever hsing method one prefers, using the many Catholic resources available now.
I'm so grateful for that.
~Books
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Sonlight
