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LisaD
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| Posted: Oct 01 2009 at 4:48pm | IP Logged
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We are just finishing up our fourth week. It has not been a pleasant week at all. Dad has had to step in with admonitions about attitudes, and there have been a lot of tears and frustration.
While the children insist they only want to be at home, learning with me, the whining and complaining about work being to hard (it's not), too long (every body is done with seat work in an hour or two at the most) is incessant.
I think, other than some basic attitude problems, our curriculum needs adjusting.
DD10 has been using CHC's United State history study from the 4th grade lesson plans. Oh, how she hates it. I think she would really enjoy Serendipity, if I can just figure out how to plan and implement it in our family. She loves to read and write and I think Serendipity would be a good fit. She also struggles with math. She is working on the second half of TT5, and while we love TT, and she understands concepts, she has been unable to memorize her multiplication facts at all and it is really slowing her down. We have tried drills, flash cards, skip counting, CDs, copy work, a math tutor, working on one multiplication fact a day all summer, and on and on. She just can't memorize them.
DS8 is also unhappy with his CHC 3rd grade social studies, Tour a Country. It's "okay" but not great. His main trouble is writing, the physical act of it. I think he is dysgraphic, and I have ditched our previous handwriting curriculum for HWT, and we have gone back to printing basics. He is also a very strong reader, but bored easily (sounds like and 8 year-old boy, no?). Serendipity might interest him, too, as long as I keyboarded narrations for him, and didn't require much writing.
DS6 is in first grade, and reading like crazy, and has strong math skills. He hates learning to write. He's a lefty, which can be challenging in a right-handed world, so I've started HWT with him, too. His frustration lies mainly in writing his answers for math, but I think that if he is not overwhelmed with requirements for writing he will ease into being comfortable with that.
So, after writing all this out, it appears that the main areas I need to overhaul, and quick, are social studies for everyone, and find something to help my dd with math.
I am nervous about figuring out Serendipity, and re-doing lesson plans, but we certainly can't go on the way we have been.
I guess I will start looking at blogs, and seeing how others are implementing Serendipity with their children.
Isn't it time for Christmas break yet? 
__________________
~Lisa
Mama to dd(99), ds(01), ds(03) and ds(06)
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ALmom
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| Posted: Oct 01 2009 at 6:11pm | IP Logged
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I have one child who had/has a horrible time retaining math facts. What finally succeeded for him was to have him build facts in a very visual way - so we used MUS blocks (but cuisennaire rods or Montessori beads (or self made ones) would do the same thing. We also did some things with the Al Abacus. I just had him make the visual every time he worked basic fact problems (you know those drill sheets) and then we did it again. So for facts we would build like 8 rows of 3 and associate it with the fact. He just couldn't hold those numbers in his head until he had a solid visual image there first and repeatedly. His personality was also a less confident one to start with and a little bit of success early, led to way more success so keeping it short, was great. After the visuals, we'd take a timed drill sheet and see how many he could do in (set the time for something that was where he was really close to getting the whole page done, but not quite there), then he would do as many as he could in this time, build and finish the remainder. When he got to where he could fill in the whole sheet in that time, we would celebrate a bit, allow him to enjoy the reduced workload a bit (ie I would allow a few days before decreasing the amount of time) then decrease the amount of time by a little and we'd do this all over again until he got to the point where he was meeting a standard target for the age. In the process, he would identify any that he was particularly slow at doing (or I would notice that he'd consistently skip certain facts on the drill sheet) - ie it took him some thinking to get the 7s and 8s for a while. I tried to use things like "how many days are in 3 weeks" kind of questions briefly at random moments during the day. We would also spend some time building these and creating visual images of this. I also sometimes did an oral quiz because sometimes the slowness had more to do with his ability to write it rather than his knowledge of the fact - and that is different. When I knew he instantly knew the facts, we would maintain with an occassional math drill during the week but resumed his regular math work. While we were solidifying facts, I didn't have him do any other math. Sometimes that meant 5 - 10 minutes of formal math per day - but then we did a lot of informal math in games, in living and in my random quizzing.
I also illustrated to him the point of having these in your memory. He was very motivated to realize that while it might slow him down now, it would really speed things up and make life more pleasant. I've had to do this with any kinds of things that it is really important to me for them to show their work. I have to show them how, while they can do this particular problem in their head, I really want them to see how they got there and why - and thus have a tool when they finally came to something they couldn't do in their head. And wouldn't they rather learn how on this problem than on - then I'd show them something I was certain they could not do in their head. They got the point and it made the math work more relevent to them. Ok, mom really does know that these problems are quicker for me to just do in my head but she is teaching me a strategy for breaking it down into steps so I can solve bigger and more complicated problems later. It helps if you can connect it to a real problem they might come across in their area of passion.
My other children who had a horrible time with things like CHC history (it was either the writing itself or I'm not sure what) really did much better with being asked to read real books in a sequence and do timelines. These were interspersed with projects (kits or their own open ended creations). One child's biggest complaint against my program/plans were that she wanted clear direction and I was too open ended. She wanted a specific paper topic - not a choice of a thousand different things. She is highly creative, so I was surprised by this - but her temperment just needed the security of a clear road map. We built the assignments together in the planning stages, but during school she liked the check off list with specific books, pages, assignments. She added in all kinds of extras on her own during her own time and had no problem adjusting the schedule if needed - just felt like she was always second guessing what we all really wanted her to do when we were following the CHC plans.
As far as handwriting, we have struggled with that in this house as well. Art is one of the best things we did that improved that. We started out with insets and followed the Montessori instructions for introducing these. I got the metal insets and my son experimented with trying to make 3 -D shapes, but had to do the shading one line at a time. This really built the hand muscles without being associated with the dreaded writing. (YOu don't have to buy insets, any kind of stencil with basic shapes that are solid and not rough - will do. It helped that these had pegs for holding them still without having to coordinate how to hold the thing still and still stay out of the writing/tracing hand's way.) When he was done with these things, his handwriting became surprisingly less painful. He is left-handed too but we didn't realize it until he was older. I did get a real pair of left-handed scissors (about $20 in a sewing section) but were well worth it. Having quality scissors is a lot like quality art materials. There is a reason why you used to do all this stuff in kindergarten. It really does develop/ prepare for writing and makes the whole writing exercise far less painful.
Oh and we did do some things like jumping on a small trampoline while doing math facts for a kinesthetic learner as opposed to the visual learner for whom jumping on the tramp did no good whatsoever.
We also made sure we had plenty of time for physical exercise and at least some of that involved specific things like skipping, jump rope or keeping time to a metronome while doing the army crawl/creep stuff. It was a game and we did find a clean Marine corps march cadence online to do some of this to as well. (We had some visual issues not using the eyes together that we'd corrected but this also impacted the coordination of both sides of the body together so we tried to make sure we did not neglect doing this now that eyes were corrected to allow for the natural development even though they might have been a bit older than when this normally happens.
Oh, the other thing we did was do a lot of using the baster, the tweezers, and eyedroppers with colored water for experimenting with color mixing. We found that these practical life activities did way more than more handwriting practice to develop those finger/hand muscles and coordination. When we resumed handwriting, it was a lot less painful.
Oh and many of my boys are not ready for much seat work or close work until closer to 10 - these are all far-sighted children. Projects would keep the focus better than anything involving writing. One child loved art and illustrating (and hated writing for some time). Some physical activity - re-enacting the events in history they were reading about, building something in the mud to illustrate science. (I did not lead any of this, but my children naturally took to this once we allowed enough time for it).
I was never opposed to asking my complaining children to tell suggest an alternative and I would consider its merits. Ie I put the responsibility right back in their lap - while dh and I held veto power if we saw laziness, in general, our children had some very good ideas of what might help them and we were willing to give it a try and see if it did or did not enhance learning. We would not allow them to avoid things we felt they needed, but we would take suggestions for how to accomplish the task in a different way. (This also cuts out the pointless whining as they know they'll just be asked to submit a plan - unless they really do have something better in mind or are really struggling with ill fitting material.)
Janet
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Sarah
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| Posted: Oct 01 2009 at 9:56pm | IP Logged
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I didn't get a chance to read all Janet's post so I will tell you what I do.
I have an 11 year old and math facts has been hard. This method has worked well.
I take a notebook and on 1 page I write all the facts for 1 number. For multiplication it would look like this: an entire page of 9 times 1 through 12. They repeat so it might work out that they have about 3 of each problem. Then I take a pencil and tap slowly in a rhythm and he says the answers. If he can do the page without breaking the rhythm of me tapping 3 times per problem then I sign him off and we move to the next number. We start with zero and move to 12. We only do 1 page per day and just stick with that page until he knows it. Its low key, and no big deal if he can't do it. The tapping might seem high pressure but it really just reminds him what we are doing or he might take an hour to do the page if he were writing it. Its all oral.
Don't worry about math facts. Just plug away with drill. It will come eventually and maybe not this year. Last year all we did was multiplication to about 8 or so and its review again this year plus division. I realize that he cannot move on until he gets it but there are other math skills like fractions and geometry you can work on in the meantime plus higher adding and subtraction and decimals. Can you do the TT out of order?
For addition and subtraction skills I didn't go by the same progression as multiplication. We did a page of doubles, make ten, etc. I also teach them the tricks to certain facts like the 9 tricks, etc.
Its slow and steady and if you can plug away and tell yourself that it will happen on her time then you won't feel that crunch that might be "bleeding" onto your atmosphere. The kids might detect your worries and negativity and be reacting. I say this as someone who has been crabby and stressed myself.
Maybe CHC is just too boring. I don't know. Social studies is one of those things that should be fun. The big picture is instilling the love of learning and not so much the exact details of it all, particularly at your kids ages. For my 7 year olds, social studies is super simple with picture books, a little map stuff that extends naturally from life, and meeting and discussing the different cultures of those we meet.
we pick a time period and read from that with real books, using a simple textbook maybe as a reference. This year we are on explorers. The kids just read and discuss. Some are more voracious readers than others. I might also have a read aloud going that is on the same time period.
In my home if a kid really really hates something then its time for a serious look at why. Is it too hard? Is it too much? Is it too often? Is it boring? Can this skill be learned another way? Am I trying to force something that is a bad match and thus making it a bad experience for all. In the end there are some things that you cannot dump and some things you most certainly can.
Your kids are very very young and so a little physical writing can come from letter writing, making lists of things, and other things. Maybe a workbook thrown in daily.
__________________
Six boys ages 16, 14, 11, 7, 5, 2 and one girl age 9
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Sarah
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| Posted: Oct 01 2009 at 9:58pm | IP Logged
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PS: with regards to the math facts notebook I was writing about: don't write the facts in order. Jumble them all up on the page!
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Six boys ages 16, 14, 11, 7, 5, 2 and one girl age 9
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ekbell
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| Posted: Oct 01 2009 at 10:05pm | IP Logged
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Re: remembering times tables does your daughter have more then ordinary difficulty with other areas of recall?
As someone who has had problems remembering the times table and who has problems recalling numbers in general (phone numbers are horrible), I found that learning various 'tricks' worked best as at this site http://www.multiplication.com/teach.htm.
While I can't honestly say I had (or have) my tables completely memorized, I was finally able to figure them out quickly enough to be able to do my work in a reasonable amount of time (and even ended up with a degree in Mathmatics in the end).
Re: children with more then ordinary difficulty with handwriting, my oldest was like that
So for grade one and two, the only handwriting she did was copywork (in grade one she did her math orally or on the computer, in grade she wrote her math and we started spelling using tiles).
In grade three she started writing short answers in her grammar and spelling workbooks but spelling tests were still done using scrabble tiles and I took dictation for writing requiring thought. All comprehension and retention questions were answered orally.
In grade four she learned to type and also finally became seriously interested in learning cursive. By the end of the year she was typing up most assignments but could write neatly if not quickly -spelling quizzes were finally written.
These days she can write fairly well and knows her way around a standard word processor and I've stopped making as many allowances. Comprehension and retention questions are still done orally because I found that it leads to discussion and ensures one-on-one time :-)
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SuzanneG
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| Posted: Oct 01 2009 at 11:10pm | IP Logged
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Lisa~
You may be interested in this recent thread: Compulsion and Excellence from a "philosophical standpoint." It's not at all about your details, but more about giving you a framework to analyze and problem-solve. It's a GREAT THREAD!
Pulling this out in particular, because of the QUESTIONS! Questions help me to go from the philosophical/theoretical to the detail/problem-solving mode.
Mackfam wrote:
When there is a need for compulsion, it too is a part of this dialogue -
:: Does the child understand the motivation I have in requiring this study - more than, "because this is what we study in the 8th grade" and more like, "I feel Latin is important because ___fill in the blank____. Do you understand why I feel this is important? Can we talk about why you aren't interested?"
:: Are they in agreement that the topic/unit of study must be accomplished?
:: Can they identify what in particular they dislike?
:: Can they identify something about the topic/course of study that does interest them - even something small?
:: Are they simply interested in investing their time/energy elsewhere and this feels like a tangent to them that they are not willing to pursue at this time...but perhaps in the near future?
:: Is there a greater good involved that requires compulsion over motivation...I'm thinking of a study of religion or theology here. In this case, I suppose I'd look again to presentation - is there a way I could make this less difficult, easier to understand, less intimidating? Is there a way I can communicate the need for this through example or church history? Am I communicating this in a way the child is most open to hearing? How have I offered the material/presentation in a way that is attractive to the child?
I have encountered serious balking and reserved balking and continuing with reservations. The only time I encountered serious balking was when I was directing more and dialoguing less. So, for our family, I'm finding that dialogue is key, both in the child's understanding of needs and mine.
As far as "rubber meets the road" reasons for sticking with something - compelling or not - I would guess mine are similar to most...or maybe not? I think I just consider our family's mission and personal philosophy as it regards homeschooling in this decision. Why are we homeschooling? What are we homeschooling for? What is the end goal? I look to our family philosophy as the guiding principle. If dropping a course or topic will not impact that family philosophy negatively, then I would probably drop it. If it would have a detrimental impact on that philosophy, I would initiate a serious dialogue in seeking to understand and accomodate so that compelling looks less like compelling and more like cooperation - even if it is cooperation with reservations because even then I believe the undertaking is more worthwhile because the child is invested in the decision and outcome to some degree. |
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Suzanne in ID
Wife to Pete
Mom of 7 (Girls - 14, 12, 11, 9, 7 and Boys - 4, 1)
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AndieF
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| Posted: Oct 01 2009 at 11:18pm | IP Logged
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My dear nephew (10) and dd (10) started off the year taking FOREVER to do their Math (he is in Saxon 65 and she is using Saxon 54). I finally figured out that part of the problem was because they didn't know their Multiplication Facts well. So instead of leaping right into Math after lunch and outdoor time, we do 5-10 minutes of a page from a Multiplication book that I got at a garage sale this summer : http://www.twinsisters.com/onlinecatalog/educationalworkbook andcdsets/2827.htm
We've listened to the CD too, but mostly we just do a page. The younger kids - my 8 year old dear nephew and 7 year old dd join us too, although they are concentrating on 0, 1, 2, and 3s right now. Then we do some other subjects like Picture Study, Science, and Music Practice, and then finish off the day with Math. Then the youngers can be done for the day whenever they are done (They are both using MUS Beta and they are usually done much earlier than the olders, which had been a problem with having Math earlier), and the olders can have a longer time to work if they need to.
Oh, we also use the MUS bars and glass beads to do multiplication sometimes to mix it up a little.
For Social Studies, the olders are doing the Continent Studies idea from Serendipity, although we started with North America. The youngers are studying States. I use State Book that I had in our home library, and then some activities and coloring page from the U.S. Mint State Quarters Lesson Plans site at:
http://www.usmint.gov/kids/teachers/lessonPlans/50sq/downloa d.cfm
I have a quick test at the end of the week to see how much they can remember - what famous person lived in this state, what is the largest lake, what is the capital, etc. and then have them draw what they can remember about the State Quarter.
We generally study geography 2-3 times a week.
Andie
Homeschooling a 5th grader, 4th grader, 3rd grader and a 2nd grader, and preschoolers!
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saigemom
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| Posted: Oct 03 2009 at 7:46am | IP Logged
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We had tried to use CHC before. It just didn't work for us as a curriculum. However, the 3rd grade tour of countries is a good RESOURCE (emphasis, not shouting). I used it as a jumping off point and place to record what we were doing.
I tied in Catholic Mosaic and Five in a row. Example,
for Ireland: We read about St. Patrick and St. Brigid, used the Catholic Mosaic copy verse for HW, printed off a map from Enchanted learning, and they drew pictures of the Sts.
For Italy, we watched a movie about the Vatican, read Papa Piccolo, found National Geographic pics. of Venice for free at the library.
Then I would take all of their work and put it together in a little book for each country. Just an idea of how we made it more fun.
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LisaD
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| Posted: Oct 06 2009 at 10:00am | IP Logged
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Thank you SO much for your replies! There are so many ideas...I need to print this thread out so that I can easily refer back to some of them.
I feel encouraged by all of your suggestions and ideas!
__________________
~Lisa
Mama to dd(99), ds(01), ds(03) and ds(06)
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Some things are just not working...
