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SeaStar
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| Posted: July 15 2009 at 6:08pm | IP Logged
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Just musing here...
When I read posts about standardized testing, etc, it seems the big goal for everyone is to do well for those college admissions...
But I have to admit that in real life I know so many people who never went to college, or who went and quit, or who went and now are doing something totally different than they originally planned. Or who went and still have student loans to pay.
My nephew is a smart guy. He was in the top of his class, a computer whiz, did great on all the standardized tests, got offered scholarships, etc...
But then he decided he didn't want to go into debt for education, so he did two years of junior college while he worked full time. Now, ironically, he is the head computer support guy *at* a college, has a side business fixing computers for people or building them customized computer systems, has a wonderful wife, a modest house and a new baby girl. Happy, happy guy. Never did the 4 year college thing.
I read Theresa's post recently about agonizing over unschooling now that her son is in high school. I immediately thought: oh, no- don't change any thing for him! He LOVES learning. He's so excited about it. Who cares about college?
I was shocked that I didn't raise my hand. My views have changed so much. Maybe I am just getting old.... 
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
SQUILT Music Appreciation
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Mary G
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| Posted: July 15 2009 at 6:31pm | IP Logged
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Melinda,
I have definitely changed views on this ... college is no longer my goal for my kids. Rather, my goal is to help them learn to love learning for learning's sake .... and then to discern what God wants them to do and do it!
But that's hard to live on a daily basis when the kids are inundated with friends and relatives who do the "how are you doing in school" or "what grade are you in" or "how are you going to compete and get to XYZ College" ... like any of that matters!
We're trying to engender in them a love of God, family and learning ... all else follows ....
__________________
MaryG
3 boys (22, 12, 8)2 girls (20, 11)
my website that combines my schooling, hand-knits work, writing and everything else in one spot!
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: July 15 2009 at 7:08pm | IP Logged
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SeaStar wrote:
I read Theresa's post recently about agonizing over unschooling now that her son is in high school. I immediately thought: oh, no- don't change an thing for him! He LOVES learning. He's so excited about it. Who cares about college?
I was shocked that I didn't raise my hand. My views have changed so much. Maybe I am just getting old.... |
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Oh, don't you worry! We won't really be changing anything. You are so right, my son does love learning and is very excited about the upcoming year. I wouldn't risk that for the world!I am thinking our high school will be more of the same, just deeper, you know?
And to answer your original question, college is definitely not my ultimate goal for my children. My goal for them upon graduation from our homeschool is for them to be in a position to follow their dreams, whatever they may be.
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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TracyQ
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| Posted: July 15 2009 at 7:11pm | IP Logged
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Oh Melinda,
This is a subject near and dear to my heart. It's something I ponder and think about regarding our country, the world, etc. often. And I have a lot of examples to ponder to help me form my opinions.
With our oldest working full time at the moment, and deciding so far, he doesn't want to attend college, this is something I think about constantly! Our second is just 17 (this past July 6th), and will be a senior. His plan at this point is to attend the community college for two years, and possibly matriculate to a 4 year college. We can't afford to send him, his SAT scores weren't that great at all, due to a vision learning problem (though he's much better after therapy), and he doesn't want to go into tons of debt for his education. Our daughter (14yo) will start 9th grade, and at this point, says she's not going to college. Ugh. I feel like we're going to have them with us the rest of our lives! But I know God has a plan.  Our oldest works full time, no benefits, but is dedicated and loyal to his job. He has saved enough to buy his first car, which he's about to do, is now going to take his road test in not too long of a time, and is writing music (pretty good music too), and began a band with his brother.
Of course, we encourage them to go to college, but also discussed that it's not good to waste money going without some sort of goal in mind, because we have seen TWO nieces with scholarships, and one nephew lose those 4 year scholarships due to bad grades from not taking their education seriously. Now one owes the college money, and can't finish her last semester for her bachelor's degree. The other niece is going to college still, but I don't know about the scholarship, I think she is going on student loans. And my nephew is the same, going on student loans.  Our other niece just left college after two years completed, hated it the entire time, had lots of difficulties emotionally, and is now back home, with no plans to go to college locally, so she's at a standstill, and doesn't know what she wants to do. She had wanted to go to school for massage therapy, something I think she may have been good at with all of the physical therapy now and sports therapy, but her parents didn't allow her to do that, thinking it wasn't good enough for her or something. Honestly, I always thought it'd be something at which she would be good.
We do have one nephew who just finished his four years and will begin law school this Fall. He will be in quite a bit of debt when he's finished with that. I'm sure he thinks he'll make a lot of money being an attorney, and maybe he will. Our other nephew just finished his second year of college for Psychology, and plans to continue. We have one nephew at Notre Dame who finished his first year, and has a pretty good scholarship to go. But I'm sure he'll have debt as well.
Almost EVERY single one has changed their major, not all, but almost every one of them! I think college is too expensive for that!
Our oldest nieces and nephews (there are four who are adults with families) have not gone to college...none of them. The oldest just moved back to Florida, and seems to finally be getting their family's life together. He works full time, and seems to always be able to find a job in data processing or account payable or inventory or things like that. He's pretty industrious. The second oldest joined the Navy, and has since left after serving eight years. He now works for a shipping company. He has rescue diving training from the Navy. Our next is a goof off, and flounders from job to job and tries to survive on his "charm" which will get old eventually now that he's in his 30s! But he has two kids, two different moms, and is planning to marry his girlfriend, the mom of his son. She's getting his act together for him.  And my niece just had her second son, is married to a correction's officer, and they're doing quite well.
I just talked to a woman at the baseball game the other night. She said her daughter just came out of law school. She'd gone to two different schools...expensive ones. She is $67,000 in debt, and said if she could do it over again, she wouldn't do that. She's going to be paying that off forever. Many people come out of college, and think they are going to get a very good paying job right off the bat, and they can't. They are entry level and have to work their way up too. They have tons of debt, then meet someone and marry someone with tons of debt, and are still not paid off by the time THEIR children go to college! It's crazy, and it's a racket!
Now, I'm not saying education is not important. I surely would not want to go to a doctor who had no formal education. I wouldn't want to go to lawyer with no formal education. And there are many jobs that NEED higher education! But there are some that do not. There are jobs that are trade jobs or vocational jobs that could be learned through apprenticeship, and through the school of hard knocks and hard work and work experience. I just think it's expected that EVERYONE goes to college for at least four years, and takes on debt that is extraordinary, even if they're doing something like becoming a plumber now! And I don't think it's necessary for certain careers! I think the system has become a HUGE business of putting people at the mercy of DEBT, and also in the first year of college, indoctrination. I think it's not good, and people need to really think about and look very carefully at the system before jump into it.
Out of my five siblings and I, only one of us went to college, and that was for two years for accounting. My sister has done fine with finding work all these years. My brother makes a LOT of money from beginning to work at a gun center for friends at their store when he was 16 years old. He now manages a tree service...all of their entire fleet of vehicles, has two boys, four grandkids, his dream house which he just had remodeled (added on to a lot), and is happy as a lark. My other brother learned printing at a vocational high school, and has worked his tail off being a great printer his whole life for probably 3-4 different companies, and they've done fine. He has two boys who are now in college. My other brother is a pastor (self proclaimed one), and runs a church with many ministries. He works hard, and is a great man, even if we don't agree on religious matters all of the time.  And my youngest brother has managed the floors and maintenance at various companies working his way up from stockboy and maintenance worker. He is doing fine, even if struggling a bit at times. He has his own home, four boys, and one in college, with one to be next year. I am a homeschooling mom with a husband who has a decent job, and also is an organist.
Things have changed though. And I ponder all of this quite a bit as you can see.......It can be scary not to give in to the system, and to try to truly seek the Lord's will for your life. If higher education is in that plan, GREAT!!! If it's not, trusting in His will and His providing for our needs can be sometimes difficult, but always worth it! Thanks for bringing this up. I am very interested in reading others' thoughts!
Two years ago, Andrew Puduwa was at our state homeschooling conference. His key address the first night was on this very subject, and it was EXCELLENT! He was speaking about not having your children go through this system, and he made a LOT of sense! It really made me think long and hard too.
My goal in homeschooling did change. This will be our 15th year. God gave me our goal two years ago when He clearly gave this to me through someone else....
*Tracy, you are NOT preparing them for college, you are preparing them for HEAVEN!* I can only pray I've done the job He expected me to do. I hope I did.
Tracy Q.
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Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
 homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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Barbara C.
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| Posted: July 15 2009 at 7:33pm | IP Logged
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I am more open to them not going to college if their vocation leads them down another path, but I want them prepared so that they can easily go to college if their vocation does lead them down that path.
I would never want my kids to go into debt for college. My husband teaches at a very nice community college. We see ourselves using the employee discount to offset the already very reasonable rates there. And state schools are usually more affordable. I chose my second choice in-state school over my first-choice out-of-state school when I was offered a full-scholarship. I graduated with out any debt. My husband also graduated with minimal debt through college and graduate school, thanks to grants and assistant positions.
Your story of the computer whiz cracked me up. At my college there were two positions for student administrators to work in the technical support. It was a very prestigious position with lots of good experience. As soon as one friend got the job, he switched his major from computer science to history (his second love) because he knew that position was a ticket to almost any post-graduation computer job he wanted even without the degree. He ended up working at NASA for a few years.
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Barbara
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violingirl
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I hope that my kids are prepared to do whatever they want to do- some careers demand a college education, and if that's their goal I want them to be ready for college. In truth though, I hope that my kids are able to be self-employed, college or not. DH and I are both self employed (2 different companies) and it has been so good for our family.
Out of me and my 8 homeschooled siblings I am soon to be the only one without a college degree, but I own my own business so I think I'm doing okay. When everyone is done in the next year or two we'll have 3 CPA's, an actuary, a brother with a super secret government job, a psychologist, 2 missionaries, and a musician. I'm the artsy one on the end.
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Erin
DS (2005) DS (2007) DD (2012)
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SeaStar
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| Posted: July 15 2009 at 9:14pm | IP Logged
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The whole college issue-even though it is years away for my two- has made me think of what my goals are for my kids.
I think more than anything I want them to know, love and serve God.
Next, I want them to be happy and at the same time be able to support themselves and provide for their families.
Hmm... seems like college is a plus or minus for me, but I don't want them to be aimless drifters
Having said that I have to admit I did the whole college thing, and for me it was the best choice I ever made... I think because in college I met Baptists, and prior to that I had never known anyone so ON FIRE for Jesus. The people I met truly inspired to learn more about my own faith. (You would think after living in a Catholic home and attending Catholic school that wouldn't be a huge issue... but it was). The best thing I learned in college was more about God. I know it was God's will for me to go.
I *so hope* my own kids won't need college to make God more real for them, you know?
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
SQUILT Music Appreciation
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Taffy
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| Posted: July 15 2009 at 9:27pm | IP Logged
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I'm hesitant to post this as none of my children are approaching college age and I don't even homeschool all of them...
Personally, college/university is not my ultimate goal for my children's education. I can echo most of the comments I've already read here.
BUT, I want college/university to be available. I want my children to be able to choose whether or not they attend - not be told they cannot attend.
My husband is a high school teacher and has the same view. He's always telling his students to keep as many doors open as they can throughout their high school career. It's so much harder and more expensive to pick up on the high school credits that you may need to have for your future career goals.
Anyway, that's my two cents. The ultimate goal is a strong relationship with God and a life of faithful service to Him of course. But I want as many options to be available to my kids as possible.
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Susan
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guitarnan
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We are at the beginning of the college app process for my oldest. I've spent the last 24 years as a military bride. I do a lot of research. Here are my thoughts.
The skilled trades in my state (MD), with the exception of construction, need people to apprentice. Desperately. Anyone who wants to deal with other people's sinks and toilets is guaranteed work for life where I live. Few takers here, though...I wonder who's going to fix my friends' plumbing? (Dh fixes ours and is teaching ds.) You don't need a college degree to work in these fields.
Having said that, a dear friend of ours with decades of network admin/call center/IT experience can't land a job interview...because he does not have a 4-year degree. His tech skills are wonderful, but he has not jumped through one all-important hoop.
My personal goals for my children - I want them to live out their (hopefully vibrant) faith and be prepared to raise their families in the Church. I want them to graduate from high school, college and grad school debt-free. I want them to learn a skill, trade or profession that allows them to support themselves, even if they take a few years off (for children, moving, retraining, family care, whatever).
I know this is a tall order. Most teens don't look at all of these issues when considering life after high school. I do, so my children have to as well.
The best way for me to help my children is to teach them to identify doors and keep said doors open as long as possible. For example, my son might be interested in a military career...or not...or his baseball injury may have rendered him unfit to serve. We need to find out about his physical fitness to serve, separately from any applications to academies or officer candidate schools.
My oldest nephew couldn't make a go of community college or working full time, so he's in Army boot camp now. I would bet almost anything that he finishes in the top five of his class. He just needs outside incentives. My own son? Wouldn't react the same to these incentives. I think that's where we parents come in - we can help our children look objectively at themselves and decide which annoyances are worth ignoring ("Recite the menu of the day, Plebe!") and which are more than they need to deal with ("We don't hire folks like that around here - they just wouldn't fit in" - true life experience...).
The goal is Heaven. We have to deal with earthly issues, though, and I think it's my job to make sure my children have life skills enough to survive after I'm gone.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Bookswithtea
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guitarnan wrote:
The skilled trades in my state (MD), with the exception of construction, need people to apprentice. Desperately. Anyone who wants to deal with other people's sinks and toilets is guaranteed work for life where I live. Few takers here, though...I wonder who's going to fix my friends' plumbing? (Dh fixes ours and is teaching ds.) You don't need a college degree to work in these fields.
I want them to learn a skill, trade or profession that allows them to support themselves, even if they take a few years off (for children, moving, retraining, family care, whatever).
The best way for me to help my children is to teach them to identify doors and keep said doors open as long as possible.
The goal is Heaven. We have to deal with earthly issues, though, and I think it's my job to make sure my children have life skills enough to survive after I'm gone. |
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These are my thoughts, in a nutshell. I really believe that skilled trades are where the money and ultimately, the freedom are at (because of the possibilities for self employment). I think college is for people who have a strong desire/calling to a career that requires it (teaching, law, doctors, etc).
I think the line of thinking that most kids should go to college and that good parents pay for it and see to it that it happens just perpetuates the problems we have with extended childishness (as in the Gatto thread that's been going on for weeks now).
I graduated from college in '92. I come from a family with strong pro-college opinions. Honestly, given that I knew I was going to stay home with my babies, I would have been better off learning to cut hair because at least that is something I could do on the side, or cut my own family's hair to save money. It also is something that would work if something horrible happened (like dh dying and me being forced to work).
Of all of my college friends who graduated and are working, the vast majority of them are still in low paying jobs (only the teachers are making good money). In contrast, the average lineman, contractor, journeyman drywaller, etc, if they are good, make much more. I don't think the thousands of dollars that a BA costs is worth it unless the child knows they are called to a particular career that requires it.
We are trying very hard to help our children find passions that are linked to skilled trades that pay well. Some are better than others. Its worth it to do the research and discuss these things with young teens as they move forward. Even my 15 yr old, when explained the difference between a job with a company that offers good benefits, versus another job that also pays well and offers self employment options but is seasonal, could understand the difference and make a decision about which he prefers.
The absolute hardest part in all of this is bucking the homeschool community at large, feeling incredibly countercultural and weird compared even to our countercultural friends, and reminding our children that this is a legitimate alternative when other kid's parents make comments like, "Are you sure you don't want to go to college?" when they ask them about it in the carpools.
It was hard to be countercultural when dh and I decided to breastfeed our babies exclusively, then homebirth, then homeschool. Then it was even harder to be so countercultural as to convert from Evangelicalism to Catholicism!  But this one is even harder, because other, also countercultural, parents will look at you with blank faces and its easy to read in their eyes that they think you are ruining your children's future. 
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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TracyQ
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| Posted: July 16 2009 at 9:19am | IP Logged
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Taffy wrote:
BUT, I want college/university to be available. I want my children to be able to choose whether or not they attend - not be told they cannot attend. |
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You know what, I misspoke. In thinking about it, I think Andrew Pudewa was saying he won't allow his children to go into debt for college, I'll have to borrow the CD on this, and listen again. I'm not sure they go through the public colleges or not. I just looked it up, and this is the talk on his PDF of his talks:
* Rebuilding Your Education Paradigm: Teaching for “Freedomship”!
Escaping the "conveyor belt" approach of institutional education by which most of us were shaped isn't easy,
but it has to be done. For many parents, our greatest handicap as teachers is our own education—but it need
not be so. In this inspiring and empowering session, you will not only come to understand the nature and
purpose of today's educational system as it was originally conceived and designed, but you will see a shining
alternative path, one that develops true thinkers, leaders, and communicators—so desperately needed in today's world.
The message was showing how kids going through the system can be detrimental to their souls. I am beginning to see that CAN be (not necessarily always is)the case. I've seen a nephew who has left the Catholic Church and broken his mother's heart. He's also about to move in with his girlfriend over the summer, again, breaking his mother's heart. This young man was taught in a good, Catholic family, just like his siblings, and went through Catholic grammar and high schools all throughout his years. He's a great kid, but his soul is in peril at this point. He is in the Psycology Department at our state university here. I pray for him every day. I see other things happening in my family with our nieces and nephews too because there is no right and wrong anymore. They often have this *religion of relativism* that they follow, because it's so imbedded in them having been taught that "anything goes", and they can't see why certain things are wrong are so evident to us. I believe this is a HUGE problem in this generation.
I'm not saying that being homeschooled prevents our kids from this either, it doesn't; but I think there's a better chance it won't if they are. And I'm also not saying that not going to college prevents them from it either, but I think there's a better chance of it happening if they do go through the college system.
Anyway, I completely agree!!! I don't think people should, nor would I ever tell my children they cannot attend college. I want it to be available to them as well, and it is absolutely available if they can find a way to pay for it. But I also can't push them to go either, as I've seen that be not so good either. Floundering is difficult, but I've come to realize that our kids need to find the path God has for them, I can't begin to know what it is, I can only see their life from my perspective, so sometimes for me, that means to get out of the way, and sometimes it means to gently guide them in a "stealth like manner" without them realizing I'm actually helping them, depending on how the Holy Spirit leads my husband and I!
I remember when our 19yo son told us he wasn't going to go to college. Though I felt stabbed in the heart, I didn't let him know it. And I almost felt like I was asking God...why are you doing this to me???? I have something to prove to everyone out there that our homeschooling is as good as the schools their kids went to!!! And NOW he's NOT going to go to college? WHAT will they THINK of me??? What will they think of our decision to educate him at home????
We discussed with him what he was going to do at this point, and he knows that we do have expectations now that he's an adult. He has to work, and he has to show that there is progression in his life, goals he's working toward to try to become more independent, and find the skills necessary for his life to support himself, and possibly a family as well. And we've explained that waiting to go to college, or possibly never going will make that road more laborious for him, and much more difficult. I think he does understand that. But once I calmed down, and prayed, I realized that I've had to trust God with this call to homeschool this entire journey, and so now I have to trust that He has our children in His hands now through their entire lives, knowing He wouldn't have called us to home educate our children if He didn't have a purpose for us and them to follow Him through that journey. It's NOT easy, but it is necessary.
Working full time is definitely giving Jake some much important work experience. I think often kids come out of college, and don't have a clue about what they're in for. Some have not really worked a job, or one that's in the workplace day to day with people old and young and middle aged with different backgrounds, egos, and personalities. I know the other day there was an "issue" at work that my son was involved in. I did the "stealth mom help" thing, and told him, Gosh, you spend more of your time with the people you work with than you do your own family....full time is a lot of time! You really need to be sure you're careful, and get along with people, and make sure you're not upsetting the apple cart unless there's blatant good reason. And you have to do it then with charity and kindness, because then people don't feel cornered or defensive, and that goes a long way!
That type of thing is valuable work experience, as is learning the skills he's learning via the computer, and working in the ebay department, hauling heavy boxes, etc. Maybe if he hauls a lot of them, he'll realize he does not want to do that for the rest of his life. Though he does think working the forklift is pretty cool!  He's networking, and learning new things too through starting his own band too. I do not know what God has in plan for his life, and it scares me often still, but then I just go to my knees, and pray that God's hand be on Him, and that Jake will come to know the Lord well and personally, and follow that plan He has for his life, whatever that may bring, and in whatever time that may be.
It's certainly not easy this whole college process, and just as I think every child is a unique creation of God, I think that He leads us for each of them differently for a reason, and so I am beginning now to realize that then each of their lives is different and unique lives that He will bring to fruition in His way and in His time. I can't tell you how many times during the day now that I have to say over and over....
Jesus, I Trust in You!
Our 17yo is very serious about going to college. There are no ifs ands or buts about it. He and his brother are definitely two completely different people, that's for sure!
Now, our 14yo daughter beginning 9th grade says there is NO WAY she's going to college! She's already decided. She feels called to be a wife and mom. I told her that is great, and we're working toward preparing her for her vocation as wife and mom if she feels that strongly about it (as her mom did at her age too). But I also "stealthily" talk to her about working to save up to help her husband as they begin their home and family, and talk about possibly gaining some other skills too should she need them some day. We'll see what the next four years bring. She is DEFINITELY without a doubt her VERY OWN person!!!!
Blessings,
Tracy Q.
__________________
Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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Nedra in So. CA
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TracyQ
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Nedra in So. CA wrote:
Instead of the standard physical science and biology, one of her students had a love for flight and navigation and spent several years in high school studying that for science and history credit. His high school years meant something to him. He studied what motivated him. Makes much more sense. He did go on to college and received his BA, but that was his goal; his desire. |
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That's so neat, Nedra! I allowed our oldest to write daily, and he wrote novels, several (though didn't finish one yet ). But he LOVED this part of his high school, and I think made him a better writer of the lyrics for his music now. I think they're pretty insightful. This is neat!
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Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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JuliaT
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| Posted: July 16 2009 at 2:24pm | IP Logged
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This whole college thing has been causing me a bit of angst the past little while. I have no idea why as my oldest just turned 10. I have been thinking a great deal about college.
College is not my ultimate goal. I want it, though, to be one of many options for my children. If their passion or interest is leading them to college then I am all for it. But I want my kids to know that college is not the only path.
The thing that has me worried, though, is that if my kids do decide to go to college, we can't afford to pay their way. In today's sociey I feel like a bad parent because I can't pay for my child's college education. Right now, it is all we can do to support ourselves, let alone save money for college. This is what is bothering me right now. I keep telling myself, though, that I went to college twice, both times had student loans and, both times, worked hard to pay them off within two years. That experience made me stronger and allowed me to see that I can achieve my goals on my own. I am hoping to instill this in my kids as the high school years come upon us.
I still can't get the bad parent thought out of my mind, though, if we can't help them go to college. sigh
Blessings,
Julia
mom of 3(10,8,6)
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JennGM
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College is not the ultimate goal, but it is part of our plan. In today's society college is now the new high school. And if your child plans on being a white collar worker of any type, a college education from a reputable college is important for his application to be even viewed.
While I hate to be conventional, dh and I think it is important to give our children tools to live in the world, to be able to provide for oneself and their family. Even seminarians or some religious require college.
Do I think that the education provided will change his life, make him better equipped? Can that college degress be just a piece of paper? No, and yes. But it is one of our goals for our homeschooling efforts.
I do find that fathers will think it more important than mothers, especially for their sons to go, and those families that have a history of college attendance will usually continue that tradition. We will be more discerning at what program and how to prepare our son, but there does come a time where he must exert his independence.
Out of time, but I just wanted to share my minority opinion.
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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TracyQ
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| Posted: July 16 2009 at 3:12pm | IP Logged
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JennGM wrote:
Out of time, but I just wanted to share my minority opinion. |
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I don't think yours is the minority opinion, Jenn. I think it's VERY true these days that higher education is important, particularly for certain careers and opportunities. I think many of us agree with that.
I think there is SO MUCH to this issue, and the what you need to do vs. what you should do, etc. and it's a real faith struggle for many people, including us! I think discussing it with others in this place is a great way to hear others' opinions and thoughts, something that's extremely important!
It'd be an easy decision if education was the purpose of the system of higher learning, but unfortunately it isn't. That causes me great angst right now in our life, wondering how to go about living IN this world, while trying to follow the Lord in order to be able to live in His Kingdom.
Where do we draw the line? What is our responsiblity? Will we answer for our decisions if our children go into an agenda-driven system, and are devoured and lose their souls? Do WE have the responsiblity of that, and what is that responsiblity? How do I look the Lord in the eye, and explain my decisions if they aren't the right ones, or the ones He called me to?
Unfortunately, we don't have the opportunity to send our children to Christendom or other devout, orthodox colleges. So then, what are our options?
These are very difficult questions I ponder constantly, and have to try to reconcile, and discern, and they are truly painful and definitely give me much angst.
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Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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Red Cardigan
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Great topic! I've been thinking about this b/c our oldest dd is starting high school (homeschool) this fall.
I told her that I want her to do a "college prep" program so that the doors will be open if she *wants* to go to college, but that the choice will be hers. We also can't provide a four-year education, so she'll probably have to work a year or two after high school anyway (which is not a bad idea, to me). One thing I DO want for my kids is that if they go to college, they'll know what they want to study, and have realistic, practical goals. I enjoyed studying lit., for example, but had no job prospects to match my debt when I graduated. I could have had just as much fun in a different section of the English department--communications--and been employable (at least theoretically).
One thing I've begun to investigate are peripheral jobs or careers where a traditional four-year (or greater) degree may not be necessary. My oldest loves animals, for example, but while she does all right in math and science she doesn't really love either subject, so steering her into a veterinary medicine program probably wouldn't make much sense. However, if she wants to train as a veterinary assistant she can still earn a decent living without having the massive debt of a vet. program to deal with--and with some work experience if she later decides to go for the degree it will not be impossible to do.
As corporate, white-collar jobs continue to decline, I think a lot of parents are going to be thinking twice about making college mandatory, especially for children who don't have a strong desire to study for four years or more.
Of course, as a happy homeschooling mom I sort of like the online college option!
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KauaiCatholic
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oh, Julia, you are NOT a bad parent! if your kids want to go to college badly enough, they can do it. and it sounds like you have better experience than most to show that relatively-debt-free college is possible.
I was following this discussion but staying out of it (my DC are still pretty young, and who knows what the world will look like when they are pondering college) but I have to pipe up now. no one has mentioned the path I took to get a degree: working. I worked multiple part-time jobs during college, and I probably learned as much from that experience as I did from any class.
so, leaving all the philosophical debate aside, I just want to ask: who says parents have to foot the whole bill? or that loans are the ONLY way to do it? (for that matter, getting done in 4 years isn't that critical either, or going right away at 18.)
my parents made the following deal with us: they would pay for tuition and books for an in-state education and we were responsible for room and board. (the rationale was we could live at home with them and attend nearby schools; anything else extra was up to us.) I worked part-time jobs throughout my entire education, some on campus and related to my degree, others not. (I probably learned more from night shifts at a group home for developmentally disabled adults than I did from fast food, but both were educational in their own right.)
did I envy students whose parents paid for everything? you bet. but even then I could see that my schooling mattered more to me than it did to many of them. you truly do appreciate something more if you are vested in it. and I met some amazing people I probably wouldn't have encountered if I'd been busy just being a student.
I've already gone on longer than I meant to, but in the interest of full disclosure I'll add my background: I went into a field that requires a degree (journalism). I was accepted to my dream school, Gonzaga, but after much soul-searching (and advice from my father, who kept pointing out how much I would owe when I was done) I ended up at the in-state University of Idaho. there I found student-run publications that gave me hands-on experience more valuable than classwork. more importantly, I found a vibrant Catholic community (and my future husband!) and lifelong friends who renewed my faith ... this, at a state school with a "party" reputation instead of the Catholic university I'd dreamed of. and my senior year, I celebrated no-student-loans by taking out a (very tiny) loan to go to Europe.
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Viviane
Grateful mama of Jonah Augustine ('01), Sophia Marie ('05) and Luke Dominic ('10)
We can do no great things; only small things with great love. -- Blessed Teresa of Calcutta
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TracyQ
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| Posted: July 16 2009 at 5:01pm | IP Logged
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Red Cardigan wrote:
Great topic! I've been thinking about this b/c our oldest dd is starting high school (homeschool) this fall.
I told her that I want her to do a "college prep" program so that the doors will be open if she *wants* to go to college, but that the choice will be hers. We also can't provide a four-year education, so she'll probably have to work a year or two after high school anyway (which is not a bad idea, to me). One thing I DO want for my kids is that if they go to college, they'll know what they want to study, and have realistic, practical goals. I enjoyed studying lit., for example, but had no job prospects to match my debt when I graduated. I could have had just as much fun in a different section of the English department--communications--and been employable (at least theoretically).
One thing I've begun to investigate are peripheral jobs or careers where a traditional four-year (or greater) degree may not be necessary. My oldest loves animals, for example, but while she does all right in math and science she doesn't really love either subject, so steering her into a veterinary medicine program probably wouldn't make much sense. However, if she wants to train as a veterinary assistant she can still earn a decent living without having the massive debt of a vet. program to deal with--and with some work experience if she later decides to go for the degree it will not be impossible to do.
As corporate, white-collar jobs continue to decline, I think a lot of parents are going to be thinking twice about making college mandatory, especially for children who don't have a strong desire to study for four years or more.
Of course, as a happy homeschooling mom I sort of like the online college option! |
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Our youngest is the same grade as your oldest is. These are all great points, thank you for your insights.
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Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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TracyQ
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KauaiCatholic wrote:
no one has mentioned the path I took to get a degree: working. I worked multiple part-time jobs during college, and I probably learned as much from that experience as I did from any class.
who says parents have to foot the whole bill? or that loans are the ONLY way to do it? (for that matter, getting done in 4 years isn't that critical either, or going right away at 18.) |
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I think this is an excellent point! Mr. Pudewa did talk a lot about this in his talk I heard. He talked about working a year, going to school, working more and saving, going and paying up front, etc. and taking time to get a degree and work experience helped a lot, and was a really great way to get their higher education, and for the same reasons you mention here. There are many ways to do it, and this is a great option! Thanks!
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Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Is college the ultimate goal?
