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time4tea
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| Posted: June 04 2009 at 9:23am | IP Logged
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Hi Everyone,
I recently made the decision to give the CHC lesson plans a full try-out with two of my younger dc who will be entering 4th and 1st/2nd grades in the Fall. The plans arrived and I have been poring over them. The plans for the 1st/2nd grader look great and the blending of the two will be just what she needs.
What struck me though was the 4th grade plans. Wow! Are these really gentle? I know that you can pick and choose what you like, but following the plans as written, they don't seem very gentle to me. For example, the History course call for the children to do quite a bit of research and writing on a weekly basis, as well as a lengthy research style report to wrap up the year, consisting of several paragraphs.
The writing assignments in history alone would not be a lot, if that were all that there is. But as I looked at the Language Arts coursework, it also calls for quite a bit of reading and writing, using The Father Brown Reader (a tough book for some 4th grade level readers both to read and fully comprehend) and Rare Catholic Stories. Then, it is suggested that the parent assign the dc do a monthly book report.
Finally, on top of all this, the dc is researching, writing, and doing all kinds of hands-on projects in My Temple of the Holy Spirit. Now again, I know that "the beauty of CHC is that it is flexible so that you can pick and choose what you like", but I was thinking, as I had mentioned, of just following the lesson plans as written in an attempt to simplify my life! I had wanted to do some sewing and cooking with my two dd's and now I cannot imagine how I would ever fit that in if we do the CHC 4th grade plans as written. As a side note, one of my older dc was enrolled in Seton's 4th grade English and Reading a few years ago, and that was MUCH less intense than what the CHC plans are proposing!
On top of all this, it seems as if there is a lot of running around, collecting books, supplies and materials to complete the various projects. I like the idea of the hands on, but as we get into Fall and Winter, I also know that we get limited by various colds and other illnesses at those times of the year. All in all, I am wondering how practical this is going to be for my family.
Has anyone else had this impression of CHC 4th grade, or is this just me? Is there a huge jump from 3rd grade CHC to 4th grade CHC that maybe we missed (we did MODG this past year)? I am now wondering if I made the right decision here..........
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~Tea
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DianaC
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| Posted: June 04 2009 at 10:21am | IP Logged
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I have also purchased the lesson plan for 4th grade and I'm so glad that I did. We have done much of the past two years as a piecemeal program using some CHC materials, some Seton, some SOTW and some Sonlight. While we have enjoyed most of what we've used, we have loved everything that we've used from CHC by far. It is solidly Catholic and there is such a sweetness to the reading selections that draws my daughter in. Also, using this piecemeal approach, I never felt that we could pursue much of any "rabbit trails" that piqued our interests as we would get so off track with everything else.
I think that the particulars that you've mentioned may seem daunting at first, but realize that you can ease your child into the program and then the assignments are repeated over and over for each section, (for instance in History, the assignments are repeated for each region of the U.S. so that the writing becomes a very familiar process for your child). Also, each activity listed each day for reading, history, etc. are very small pieces which, once you're accustomed to them, each one should only take a few minutes.
For the Father Brown and Rare Catholic Stories, I may suggest that if the reading is difficult, you could do these as a read-aloud. We've used many of the CHC readers as part of our morning devotions - one of my daughters favorite parts of our school day. Just printout the study guides and ask the questions orally when you read together.
Also, keep in mind that the program leaves Wednesdays free - which is when you can plan your cooking and sewing. You could also integrate some recipes and sewing projects to coincide with the various regions that you are studying, etc.
I purchased the lesson plans early this spring primarily because I knew from last year's planning experience that I would change my mind over and over about what program(s) to use and I really wanted to simplify this year and have a more solidly Catholic approach. I've come to view the lesson plans as a scaffolding to keep me steady as we work through our basics, yet it will still enable us the flexibility to jump off on some rabbit trails, and then pick right back up where we need to be.
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allison
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| Posted: June 04 2009 at 2:31pm | IP Logged
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We used CHC 4th grade this year for History, Science and Language Arts  plus spelling, and handwriting. I keep going back to CHC no matter how many times i try to go in another direction. They are a really good base to work from.
The History is really not hard if you have either the geography bee book or a 50 states book. it's look-it- up and plug-it-in info. Great for learning research skills! The Catholic facts are all in the geography bee book. We skipped the big state report at the end and just put together all the paragraphs because yes, i felt it was a bit much and repetitive (and after making that decision i spoke to another mom using 4th grade CHC and she had done the same thing.)Also, we ended up doing all of the states (CHC just does a certain number from each region) and we used Holling C. Holling maps/books and researched the states as we came to them in the books.
The Language Arts with the Father Brown Reader was great! the hardest part was getting my son to answer the questions - he could tell me all about what he read but he could not seem to pull it apart to answer the questions in the guide. may be just the way they were worded. It really is not a huge amount of reading and as DianaC mentioned doing a read-a-loud with it would definitely be doable.
The Science would have been easier if i had gotten all the project materials at the begining so he had them when he needed them. otherwise, he really enjoyed that course too.
Its really not as much as it seems on paper. And yes, it is gentle compared to many other programs, but not easy by any means.
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: June 05 2009 at 3:18pm | IP Logged
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I guess I'm the dissenting voice, but I don't think CHC, as it is fully designed, is particularly gentle or easy for mom to use. We make use of pieces of each of the years, but we have never had a successful year when I tried to use the LP's as designed. And I tried more than once... 
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~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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time4tea
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| Posted: June 05 2009 at 3:30pm | IP Logged
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Thanks, Books! Now I don't feel like such an oddball here! 
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~Tea
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: June 12 2009 at 7:56am | IP Logged
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Hey Tea, I spent a good portion of yesterday reviewing all my CHC manuals (K-8th) because I have a couple of moms coming over who are mostly interested in CHC materials and want some help.
There is definitely a sharp curve upwards, academically, between the end of 2nd grade and the beginning of 3rd grade (my favorite years are still 1st and 2nd). That said, there is an awful lot of beauty in their plans. It occurred to me that choosing to do a level below the child's grade level (bumping up the workbooks to the right grade) might be a way to go if a mom wants to use CHC planners mostly as listed.
I like Behold and See, but not for a 3rd grader. I'd like to see a 5th grader use it independently.
I like the Tour A Continent and Tour a Country plans, but I'd use them with 10 and 11 yr olds.
I think its ludicrous to use From Sea to Shining Sea and All Ye Lands with 5th and 6th graders and expect them to comprehend it while working independently (the publishers rate these books 5th-8th and 6th-9th, respectively). And the 7th and 8th grade texts (the Anne Carroll ones) are used by Seton in the 10th and 11th grades.
I'm thinking the 5th-8th grade plans for history would be better used in 7th-10th, and when I called and asked them about it once, years ago, someone on the phone told me that families often do this. So I know I'm not alone in noticing the disparity.
I think its because CHC is committed to using *modern* texts for science, history and religion. They are making the best of what is currently available, rather than using 50 yr old religion texts and used science books that sometimes are only available as reprints.
So with that in mind, perhaps the 3rd grade syllabus with 4th grade level workbooks would work better for your 4th grader? After pouring over the stuff, I am actually considering doing something similar with my 4th grader.
And I fell in love with the Church history program in the 8th grade and am going to try to find a way to make it into a high school level course in a few years. The Virtue Tree study for 7th graders is awesome, too, btw.  But now I'm babbling...anyway, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on this idea????
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~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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krystab
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| Posted: June 12 2009 at 8:46am | IP Logged
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Books, thanks for the great post!
Bookswithtea wrote:
I like the Tour A Continent and Tour a Country plans, but I'd use them with 10 and 11 yr olds.
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I always thought it was weird to start with continents, then countries, then US geography. It just feels right to me to start with the more familiar, US geog. So I was thinking of keeping the Our United States in 4th grade, then doing the continent and country plans in 5th and 6th. Or do you think the US plans should be for older ones too? I have yet to see these plans, so will have to take your word for it.
Maybe, if I switch things around like your above post suggests we can enjoy CHC again. CHC was always my favorite Catholic curriculum, but something is holding me back from using it again. I think you have shed the light on my problems with CHC. I knew that I would have to do a lot of work to make these tour programs doable for that young of an age. But I didn't even think about putting these programs off a year or two and then they can find the information themselves instead of me finding it for them!
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Krysta
Mom to 6 little blessings
DD-00', DS-02', DS-04', DS-07', DD-09', DD-12'
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time4tea
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| Posted: June 12 2009 at 10:42am | IP Logged
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Books,
I like those ideas! Basically, I like the CHC plans, and the more I read through them the more I actually like them. But likewise, the more I look through them the more I see in them - they are actually quite "meaty", especially as you said once you get above 2nd grade. I guess that is the reason I don't view them as "gentle", although I think that word can be interpreted in different ways!
I too believe that From Sea to Shining Sea and All Ye Lands are way above the heads of 5th and 6th graders, same as Christ and the Americas and Christ the King, Lord of History for 7th and 8th. While I understand CHC's desire to make use of more "modern" texts, if those texts don't really fit the "target" age group, families will still have to find something else that works. And most of those choices will once again be Our Pioneers and Patriots, Old World and America, How Our Nation Began, etc.
And yes, the science can get to be a bit much too. We don't even use The Universe in My Hands. I bought it once and sent it right back. Even my dh, who has a master's in engineering physics thinks it really isn't presented well for students of the age range in which it is targeted. Every time I have participated in in any of CHC's surveys, I have made mention of it.
Here's also something else to consider - CHC is bringing out a new Language of God level appropriate for the 7th grade. I am wondering what will become of Lingua Mater, or if it will be moved on to 8th grade? I guess we'll see as time goes on.
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time4tea
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| Posted: June 12 2009 at 10:47am | IP Logged
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Correction - Language of God, F is here! I just received my CHC e-newsletter for June. Now I'm off to have a better look
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time4tea
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| Posted: June 12 2009 at 10:59am | IP Logged
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Unfortunately, Language of God - F, appears in the e-newsletter but isn't yet on the CHC website. I am very curious about it and will be anxious to see how fits into the curriculum.
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: June 12 2009 at 2:32pm | IP Logged
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krystab wrote:
But I didn't even think about putting these programs off a year or two and then they can find the information themselves instead of me finding it for them!
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Exactly.
But I don't think it would work as well to do the 4th grade first and then follow with the others. Its designed to get progressively more challenging, and I think the states tour is meant as an intro. to the American History study in the 5th grade.
I spent more time looking at it all today. I think I'm going to have my 4th grader this fall do most of the 3rd grade. I'm subbing for Language of God because that program has never worked well for us. We will use Queen's Language Lessons for the Elementary Child I, something we've never used before but I like the look of it.
I'm also not sure if we will use F and L, and we use Math U See instead of MCP. I am also subbing out the third grade science and will use Behold and See probably in another year (which is good for me to save it for later because I don't care for Universe in My Hands at all  ). I think it will work nicely. I think the encouragement to do monthly book reports (which we will do as monthly narrations, dictated to me and then printed out) is more appropriate for my 4th grader than for a 3rd grader. I think she is going to love the hands on religion program, and we were already using the spelling, and I just recently ordered the handwriting books and love what I see!  I am going to do at least some of the reading comprehension, I think, because in many ways, its a religion comprehension issue rather than a *reading* comprehension issue. I like the idea of the child wrestling with virtue issues without me in the middle lecturing about it, kwim? And the Tour A Country with the passports is going to be a huge hit with her, I am sure (we'll do the predetermined path...less work for me that way). She is the perfect age for that. I probably won't use encyclopedias for that, though. We have a few Usborne Atlas and "Peoples of the World" type books that should have the info. she needs. I think the amount of research expected is perfect for a 4th grader...mostly looking up facts to list on the travel brochure rather than writing paragraphs. We will be doing bible study as well.
My older dd is going to pick up the Virtue Tree study to go along with the Sonlight core she is already doing, and I'm going to add in the Stories of the Saints that are used in the middle school lesson plans as well. One of the things I like about those books is that the saints are discussed in a very *real* way...not in that "once upon a time"/fairy tale way that some saint stories use.
I'm going to have my youngest dd do 1st grade, subbing only for a few things (Language Lessons for Little Ones instead of My Very First Catholic Speller, MUS instead of MCP and will probably use books on my shelf for the few read alouds they suggest that I don't already own). I'm debating on doing F and L with her as well. Oh, and I'm either going to add in or replace the Catholic Picture Bible and Timeline project with de Paola's Parables of Jesus and Miracles of Jesus. I have realized lately that my littles know the basics of Jesus' life (the highlights of the mysteries of the rosary and the stations of the cross), but often don't know the little stories that are so important.
Does anyone know where I could find picture cards of the miracles and parables of Jesus? I would love to use those instead of doing the bible timeline.
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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Kathryn
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| Posted: June 12 2009 at 10:09pm | IP Logged
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I hope this is not "hijacking" your thread and is relevant but as a new homeschooler and still undecided on curriculum, is CHC a good choice for an upcoming 3rd grade boy? He'll be 9 next week but he's not a very "mature" 3rd grader so when you mention a big up swing in the academics betw. 2nd and 3rd, it concerned me. I was leaning toward CHC b/c of the newness of this all to me and wanting something a little more structured and Catholic and the gentleness of it that I hear from sooo many. Can you provide words of advice? Sometimes I feel like my head is going to explode with all the info I'm trying to take in!!
Thanks,
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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time4tea
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Kathryn,
Welcome to the homeschooling journey! I have 5 dc and we have been homeschooling for going on 8 years now. Two of my younger children have birthdays right around a couple of yours - our oldest daughter was born in 6/00 and our youngest daughter in 8/07!
CHC could be a great fit for your son. In what areas is he weak? For example, my rising 4th grader will still be in 3rd grade math next year because she struggles in that area. If your son isn't ready for the specific readers used in the CHC plans, just substitute the readers in the grade below and let him work his way up. Our middle girl has a late Fall birthday, and will be doing combination of CHC's 1st and 2nd grade plans and materials. Does this help you? The lesson plans have plenty of writing room in them for you to customize them to what will work for you.
Here's two other suggestions: First, go to the CHC website and go to the Free Catholic Curricula section where you can download the sample packets of the different CHC grade materials from K through Middle Years. Also, look at each item called for in the grade level you are considering and pull up the sample page(s) associated with it.
Second, if you still have questions about a specific book, etc., consider asking it on the CHC Mom-to-Mom support section of the website. I have asked several questions there and they usually answer quickly. Often, the author of the book itself is the one who will answer your question directly!
Finally - I started this thread and I apologize if the title I chose has caused you to second guess your choice of CHC! As I pondered this topic, my main thoughts were that in the past, CHC was not seen as being much of a "heavyweight" academically speaking when compared to, say, Seton Home Study School for example. However what I am finding is that CHC is very complete academically speaking, and if the lesson plans are followed very closely, could easily rival and even equal or surpass the academic outcome of Seton. That said, both CHC and Seton can be modified to suit the child being schooled with them. The one big advantage with CHC is that it is much less expensive than Seton and does not contain nearly as much busy work (in my humble opinion!) as Seton does.
I hope this helps!
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~Tea
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Bookswithtea
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Welcome Kathryn. Tea makes great points. Actually, I've never visited the forums there so now I'm curious to go read, myself! 
Downloading samples is a great option, because you will get a feeling right away if it seems to hard or too easy. *TRUST* that feeling. The biggest mistake new homeschoolers make is in paying more attention to what the number on the package says instead of trusting their gut that tells them that a child either isn't ready or will be bored. There is really nothing wrong with using a program a year above or below standard grade level, particularly in the early elementary years. Most kids tend to level out around grade level somewhere between 10 and 12. CHC's second grade is solid, academically, and would be a nice transition for a child who is new to homeschooling. The religion supplements in 2nd are incredible, and the tour a country social studies program would be fine with a 3rd grader as well. The science in 2nd is sweet, but the science in the 3rd grade program would likely require a lot of your time (very mom intensive if you use it at that age).
The only caution I would have is to look carefully at the samples in case your boy might find it too girly. Some boys don't like CHC because its graphic intensive in slightly feminine ways. Other boys don't mind it at all (and I'm not saying they are sissies...just that I have a boy who wouldn't have anything to do with it and another who probably won't mind at all when he's old enough, so its something to consider).
Tea said: ***Finally - I started this thread and I apologize if the title I chose has caused you to second guess your choice of CHC! As I pondered this topic, my main thoughts were that in the past, CHC was not seen as being much of a "heavyweight" academically speaking when compared to, say, Seton Home Study School for example. However what I am finding is that CHC is very complete academically speaking, and if the lesson plans are followed very closely, could easily rival and even equal or surpass the academic outcome of Seton. That said, both CHC and Seton can be modified to suit the child being schooled with them. The one big advantage with CHC is that it is much less expensive than Seton and does not contain nearly as much busy work (in my humble opinion!) as Seton does. ***
I think its an unfortunate impression out there. Seton has very difficult tests for English/grammar/history and religion, so people think its strenuous academically. However, they require 4 book reports a year. CHC's plans include a book report a month in the 3rd grade (which would be close to 9) which assumes the child is reading fiction every month in addition to their readers/comprehension (there are charts in the plans for the child to keep track of all the different books they are reading). But there isn't the pressure of an outside grader like with Seton (an advantage to some, a disadvantage to others). CHC's grammar is less intensive, but their middle school history is much more academic than say, Seton's "Catholic World History" text for either 6th or 7th (can't remember which), which has very little "history" in it at all. Any program is tweakable, so CHC can be dumbed down or followed strictly, and the same can be said of Seton as well. I dunno... ...I think its weird that it has that reputation.
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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Kathryn
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Thanks for the insight. I posted a question at CHC and looked over the sample pages. I may start another thread w/ my more specific questions about him when I have time.
I actually was leaning toward CHC for him and Seton for my daughter. The Catholic HS Conference here isn't until end of July so at this point I'll wait before purchasing until after I attend that.
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Kathryn in TX
(dd 16, ds 15, dd 8, dd 5)
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LisaD
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This forum is so USEFUL! I'm so glad I've read this thread. I purchased the CHC lesson plans for 1st, 3rd and 5th (middle school planner), but since I didn't use the lesson plans last year, I didn't really have an idea of what I was missing in the big picture.
Now I'm thinking that the way to go is to use the U.S. History and Geo. in the 4th grade planner for my 5th grader, and wait on From Sea to Shining Sea. She's an excellent reader, but I dropped the ball a bit with regard to history study, so I think she would benefit from using the 4th grade plans there. I think I may have her use the health and science course from the 4th grade planner, too.
I'm not sure if I'll have my 3rd grader use the social studies plan included in the 2nd grade planner or not. After looking at it, I think that he will do just fine using the plans the Tour a Country course in the 3rd grade planner.
We'll continue to use Teaching Textbooks for math, since that is working so well for us. I'm sure there will be some more tweaking along the way!
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~Lisa
Mama to dd(99), ds(01), ds(03) and ds(06)
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Is CHC really gentle?!
