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folklaur
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| Posted: Jan 15 2009 at 12:51pm | IP Logged
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My kids started the day with handwriting, EtC for dd6, Mapwork for ds10 (he loves this). Then they asked to do Science - okay.
We are doing stuff with Atoms & Molecules. We are using Usborne - it has quicklinks - so after reading together in the book, we go look at the links on the Internet. There is a build your own atom thing. They spent so much time working with that - ds built every atom possible, i think, and was totally getting ionization and radioactivity, how the atoms work, etc. DS, especially, was having a blast (dd6 got bored after a bit, which I thought was to be expected.)
I had to go to the bathroom and when I came out, he was on the floor, with the books surrounding him - drawing detailed pictures of atoms and quarks and gluons etc.
Now - I had no problem with that. Just let him have at it for as long as he wanted.
Until later - when of course I checked the schedule, and now we are "behind." We didn't get to Math or History at all for him. We are "behind." Part of me feels the need to "catch up." The other part of me thinks - WHO CARES! He spent the day learning, why do I have this stupid schedule, and who exactly am I "behind," and for what reason do I need to "catch up"?
Do I start today with the History and Math that we "missed" - or when we sit down, and I hear, "Can we do Science?" (which is a given - he loves science) do i say YES! and let his love of this flourish? Do I say, "No, we *need* to do Math and History first" - making Science the carrot (I hate that idea.)
DH is not much help - he would have us unschool completely. He has read Holt & Gatto & others and he is a total proponent of Unschooling.
Ack!
Then I think about my own school experience. I was bored - a lot. I remember the few times that I really enjoyed a topic - well, we couldn't really dwell on it, even if the whole class was loving it. We had other information to cover. Or, "it is now time for Math, not science, so it doesn't matter how interesting it is, close your books and let's move on."
I hated it.
I remember even in college - my very favorite-ist classes, the ones the fueled my desire to learn about a subject - were those not taught by "teachers." They were the ones were the Anthropologist who usually worked in the field taught the class, etc. They had no real idea how to do lesson plans, etc. They just came in and spent time telling and showing us what they did, what they knew, sharing their knowledge and experience, what their passion was, and it ignited the same thing in those of us who were interested.
So - am i crazy?
How do you find balance between "the schedule" and "freedom to learn"?
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Lisbet
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| Posted: Jan 15 2009 at 12:54pm | IP Logged
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Laura, Your ds sounds alot like my ds9 - and I just let him go with it. We do generally start the day with math, because my dh insists on math each day and this way I know we'll get to it.
It sounds to me like he had a great day and enjoyed learning what he did - I don't know that I'd mess with it...
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Gloria JMJ
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| Posted: Jan 15 2009 at 4:32pm | IP Logged
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Laura,
You could remind him that scienctists need to use ALOT of math and that may encourage him to be more positive towards it, or it may give you a reason to insist on it being done first. And you could have his writing assignments be about the science that he is interested in at the time, then they won't seem like a different subject  (and it doesn't hurt to remind him that a scientist must document everything he is researching  ) Otherwise, I think that children can learn what they like better than what they don't like, and when they see a need to know something (like times tables) they will want to learn it.
I hope this helps some.
~Gloria
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LLMom
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| Posted: Jan 15 2009 at 5:23pm | IP Logged
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Laura,
I think I would go with it too. Insist on the math if you want first thing in the morning like Lisa said and then let him do science. There is so many other "subjects" he will pick up with it. (reading, history, math, writing (maybe), etc)
I wanted to mention too that you are so lucky that your dh is an unschooling proponent. Quite frequently the dads need convincing.
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For veteran & former homeschool moms
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ALmom
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| Posted: Jan 15 2009 at 7:14pm | IP Logged
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Ok, here is what I discoverd about my science fan - and one I really let run with his interests and ideas. I do not regret the time and freedom to explore his passion. However, at some point it became obvious that we'd hit a point that he needed to learn to communicate well in writing or he would not progress much further in science. He also kept getting bit by some inattentiveness to detail, not paying a bit of attention to directions and so forth - precise science vocabulary was unimportant as he didn't need to remember the names of things in order to build the hydroelectric dam or whatever his project at the time involved. As a parent, it was my responsibility to make sure that science did not become the excuse to ignore every single other subject or task needed. Some of the more rigorous aspects of things simply were not fun enough to get him into it without a little encouragement in the way of some structured requirements. I started by having him write about his science experiments. I connected it to the reality that just doing things in the back yard would only go so far. At some point he'd want and need to exchange ideas with scientists around the world. He couldn't do that if he couldn't write a coherant sentence. He might even want to be able to get folks excited about some great discovery he made. It might be useful to learn about vivid language and how to keep someones interest in writing, etc. I even argued for developing a basic understanding of symbolic language. I never knew someone who is so well read in science could have so much trouble drawing simple conclusions from hints given in literature. The skills of science reading are different than skills in reading in literature. He just needed to expand his horizons a bit - in the interest of furthering his opportunities in science and in being able to function well in a variety of aspects of life - from defending the faith to holding a conversation with people of diverse interests to being able to recognize when facts in a subject were being twisted.
Honestly, the child really needed structure in order to not keep getting distracted away from things he really, really needed to be doing. I know a great deal of this has to do with his particular temperment. Leaving him to freewheel was not going to cut it. It just became blatantly obvious that we did have to provide structure and accountability in subjects that he had either avoided or continued to do with total carelessness. He was ready for it and wanted it though he didn't really ask for it. We tried it and the child is quite happy and still doing plenty of experimenting and science freewheeling.
We worked up a plan - and I do ask that he does science at the end of his work. But I keep his work reasonable so that he still has hours to spend doing science provided he puts a little effort into getting some math, writing, and literature done. He is 11 and it just was the right time to do this for us. He is not resistant at all. I think he really knew what he was doing and wanted the help to stay with things he deep down knew he needed, but just didn't think were nearly as exciting as figuring out how to extract elements from compounds or balance chemical equations. When I explained why I wanted him to save science for last (and listed it last on my daily plans), he agreed and understood. It is not a carrot but a practical realization that he is easily distracted from things he really needs and saving science until last means he is free to stay with it as little or as long as he wants.
I have specific lesson plans in the subjects that I felt he was really avoiding and have made him very accountable for things. In science, I just list science and he still pursues his own interests here. Right now he is working in a high school text that he requested in order to balance chemical equations - but he goes off on tangents, too, with plenty of hands on stuff. All the boys just made some hydraulic lifts.
For all his subjects, I now require answers to be written in complete sentences and so forth. He must punctuate these sentences, write them neatly on another sheet of paper - not cram them in circles all over whatever book or worksheet he is doing. From all I see at the moment, he is happy and still doing lots of freewheeling in science. He easily agreed that putting science at the end of the day was practical since he could then keep at it and not be interrupted and yet not just completely forget about the rest of the world.
What he is finding out is that a little bit of time in organizing, goes a long way in buying him lots more time to do other things. Discussions with me and work review has become a breeze with this child now - and he is very happy. (I almost fear saying this as I might be revamping something next month or something, but right now I just know we are moving in the right direction for this child).
Oh, and btw, I've noticed this same thing about all of my children who have really obvious and intense passions for a single subject. It may be that in addition to a single passion, they also share a strong sanguine component and just cannot function without some help with structure. I don't know if I'd have the same problem with my more choleric children. These sanguine children love the plans and find them so freeing.
I guess what I'm saying is that you and your dh must make the call about how and when to add in structured demands and accountability to complete certain things. A lot will depend on the frequency of the avoidance and the duration as well as your assessment of the support needs your particular child has here and how critical these deficiencies in other areas are (For instance, my child consistently never bothered to write in a complete sentence, never punctuated and scrawled things in a disorderly manner. Most of the time it was illegible. He didn't bother to read directions or even pay attention to a subject's vocabulary and this continued despite various less demanding strategies from wait and see to strewing, to requesting that he pay attention to certain things orally ...). We knew we had to make demands and make sure there was plenty of accountability. It is hard for someone who doesn't know you or your child to say what should be done or when. It is a matter of prudential judgement, prayerfully made with real information about where he is and what he needs and how he learns and what motivates him.
I did want to assure you, though, that saying that science must be done as the last subject of the day after these minimally required things does not have to be a carrot type thing. It is really a very normal skill. We all do it. I always do craft projects either on a day that I don't mind we do nothing but crafts or I save it until we have accomplished some essentials first. If I didn't, we'd never get past the crafts because we'd be so involved - and then there is the clean-up and ... I don't want to have to make my children stop and move everything so we can have lunch - but we still have to eat lunch. Now, sometimes we might decide to simply eat outside as a quick side while something dries so we can keep going. But I cannot do it on a daily basis this way or it would be chaos. My child's science is simply like the craft - involved, intense, often messy and I don't want to have to interrupt. He doesn't go off on tangents from any other subject; never has. He might read something in history about someone's gunpowder and that might become his science project (exactly what is in xyz and is it possible for me to extract this exciting thing from stuff I have access to using what I can find out in chemistry) but he won't care a bit about when it was done, how it changed the course of events or how it was connected to any other things (at least not yet) - but you get the picture. 
Janet
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Martha
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| Posted: Jan 15 2009 at 7:33pm | IP Logged
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can you incorporate math and history in the science?
atomic ratios?
when/who discovered various things and the effect on history/society?
otherwise, I'd insist on starting with math and history, but I wouldn't science the carrot. I'd just say we start with them and leave it at that.
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KerryK
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| Posted: Jan 15 2009 at 11:32pm | IP Logged
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I agree with getting the math done first thing - it is our one non-negotiable thing here. We always get the history done because they love history, but the math is not a favorite around here by any stretch!
Go with the interests - excitement about learning is incredibly valuable!
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Barbara C.
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| Posted: Jan 16 2009 at 12:20pm | IP Logged
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I would make the math mandatory, but not the history. And do the Math first, not dangling the science like a carrot, but just explaining that by getting the math out of the way he won't have to worry about his science time being interrupted to do Math later. And like others suggested I would try to tie as much stuff to the Science as possible: journal explaining to you what he's doing, books about atomic history/scientists, etc.
I tend to be more unschooly anyway. Right now we do math and reading lessons with my oldest (6). Once she's reading well I plan to segue reading lessons into vocabulary building. At age 10 I'm thinking we'll just start integrating another formal subject. Sounds likes your son is integrating it on his own.
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: schedules, freedom, indecision....
