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Cheryl
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| Posted: Oct 28 2008 at 12:29pm | IP Logged
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I'm not sure where to put this. As the title says, I'm struggling just to get through my days. It seems to have come on quickly. Maybe around the time when dd 2 started climbing out of her crib. She's also had a cold for about 3 wks. She's tired and needy. I'm not getting enough sleep between waking with her and dd 3 mos.
I've been trying to keep up with our routines, but the boys are resisting picking up their things, doing their school work and chores. I've yelled and given consequences. Then ds 7 will cooperate, ds 9 has been talking back. His attitude has been negative, which is unlike him. He's been bothering his sisters and doing things he knows he shouldn't do like breaking pencils and throwing things. He seems to be arguing about everything which I'm too tired to deal with.
I'm feeling stressed out with 5 people seeming to need me at once, along with laundry, meals and managing stuff. I've been praying a little bit in the morning and at night. I'm exercising alone for 30 min 3x/week. I've had some time alone with dd 3 mos. I can't seem to relax as I used to be able to. I'm just so exhausted. I've started to cry a lot. I think this is the third day now of feeling like crying.
I've read The Real Learning Burn Out chapter. I am trying to follow the advice in it, but how exactly do I get through the day? If I let go of chores and schoolwork to give the boys (and me) a rest, would that be rewarding their disobedience? I feel like we need a vacation, but I think my dh will worry that we'll get behind. I'd like to hear about your experiences. Do you have any suggestions?
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Cheryl
Wife to Bob ('97)
Mom to Matthew 13, Joseph 11, Sarah 10, Rachel 6, Hannah almost 4 and Mary 1
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Rachel May
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First, I'm praying for you! Some days are such a struggle, and I know how you feel. 
I'm only going to give one idea which is to take a small break. We routinely take a week off every 7 or 8 weeks. I find that all of us need a break from the usual routine at that point, and the week off is not so long that I feel we get behind. I don't think it's rewarding disobedience, but rather listening to what you need to keep yourself mentally healthy enough to keep doing what you are called to do. I do tell my husband the plan so he knows we aren't just goofing around. 
I try really hard not to approach our week off as a vacation, though. First, we maintain our routines and spend more time on habit forming in household areas. Also, we focus on reading aloud a lot (sometimes I pick up a bunch of books on one theme like art or seasonal feast days) and take some easy field trips that tie in. The key is to make it a change, to still have a plan, and not to let the schedule be so light that people get into trouble.
I find the stress flows away quite a bit during these recovery weeks.
I hope you find the help you need in this thread.
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Rachel
Thomas and Anthony (10), Maria (8), Charles (6), Cecilia (5), James (3), and Joseph (1)
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Helen
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Cheryl, if it is any consolation, I found things really changed with child number 5.
I'll pray for you today!
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Ave Maria!
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JodieLyn
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I agree with Helen, for some reason odd numbers always through things WAY off. it was much harder after 5 and 7 than it's been after 6 and 8.. or maybe I'm just weird 
If everyone is acting out because they're tired or hungry.. you don't deny them rest or food because it might be rewarding bad behavior.. rather it's fixing the problem that's causing the behavior.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
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-Sir Walter Scott
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Tina P.
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For me, the child that threw the biggest wrench in the works was my eighth. And it's not just her, really. Most of why I'm struggling is because I'm making a sorry attempt to home school my high schooler. Oh yeah. And then there are those five others at various levels that I'm trying to balance. And the newly-sassy-just-turned-3 yo.
I crave peace.
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Tina, wife to one and mom to 9 + 3 in heaven
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KC in TX
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Cheryl, no advice, but I'll pray for you.
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KC,
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amyable
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I have no direct experience with what I'm about to say, but I've heard that boys need their dads to intervene with discipline once in a while, in a "this is not how real men treat women" and "you may NOT speak to my beloved wife in that way" kind of way.
As for the rest, I'm not much of a help! Baby number 5 has just turned a year for us, and I just now feel like I'm crawling out of the "wow this is impossible" hole. Now it's just freakishly difficult.  I do remember going through major hormonal shifts several times, that would last at least a few days each (crying jags and the like). Maybe give it a few more days before you change something drastic?
I found the worst days were the ones where I was thinking too far ahead. Too far may have been only several hours. I would see that there were 5 hours left until dh came home and I would feel miserable. But if I thought, "Gee, can I get through just the next 10 minutes with grace and peace (or one minute, or even 30 seconds - I made sure the time was short enough that the answer was always YES)" When that 30 second time frame was up, I allowed myself to ask again, "Can I get through the next 30 seconds?" The days were made up of 4,000 thirty second increments, but I survived, AND I convinced myself that I could do it. I think I need to get back to doing this more often. These days my bad days blindside me and I forget my "tricks." 
You are in my prayers!
ETA: do whatever you need to do school wise. I just bought a bag full of workbooks from Barnes and Noble, because my biggest issue is getting started in the day when all the work is on MY plate (75% of our schooling was me reading things to them and then discussing. I could do this on "good" days but really struggled on bad days). It's OK.
ETA again!: I think sleep is *imperative* Cheryl, if you want to feel better emotionally. That being said, you need to forgive yourself if you *can't* find a way to get more sleep (I know it can be hard!). God isn't up in Heaven glaring down at you failing in your home and school. He's probably looking on in compassion, thinking you are doing great with what you've been given, and wishing someone would help you out!
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Amy
mom of 5, ages 6-16, and happy wife of 
The Highly Sensitive Homeschooler
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Maryan
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I spent the summer reading the Real Learning burn out chapter, Cheryl. I know how you're feeling. Prayers here.
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Maryan
Mom to 6 boys & 1 girl: JP('01), B ('03), M('05), L('06), Ph ('08), M ('10), James born 5/1/12
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Bridget
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Five put me over the edge too. Not sure I ever climbed back on.
Cheryl, I agree that your husband is crucial in helping helping improve the children's respect for you. Especially as you head into the adolescent years.
I don't think taking a break from school work is rewarding their disobedience. My children would not be conniving enough to decide that if we behave in this fashion then we'll get out of school work. Yours probably aren't thinking that way either. They really don't know why they do what they do.
Take a break, let some things slide for a couple of days. Get everyone out for a long walk, go to the library. Just don't let them idle for more than a day or their behavior gets worse. If you give them time off make sure they get outside plenty to burn off energy.
Your not alone in how you feel and your doing all the right things to deal with it. But you have sort of gone up a level in your mothering. You have more kids and a wider age span, it does require more of you. You'll adjust to that.
One other thing that may be worth looking into is progesterone supplementation. I have many friends who need it to pull themselves back together after a baby and beyond. It just helps balance out wacky hormones.
Your a great mom, you'll find your balance again.
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God Bless,
Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
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Cheryl
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Thank you for your comments and prayers. It helps me to know I'm not alone. I have some friends IRL that are very encouraging. I feel better after I talk with them, but then I get worried and sad again. I wonder how I'll get out of this. Will I be able to educate them, be a good example, get the house in order again? I'm thinking too far ahead like Amy said. My friends keep telling me that I am too hard on myself.
Last night my dh took ds 9 and dd 2 out to the hair salon and store. They came home with flowers and an encouraging card. They all gave me hugs and then he took care of the bedtime routine while I took a hot candlelight bath and prayed. It helped me relax. Tonight we're going on a date with Hannah that I had planned. I'll tell him what you said about the father helping.
I don't know what we'll do about homeschooling. Yesterday all we did was: ds 7 did math, I read a Frances book to the girls and everybody got manicures and pedicures. The kids are waking now, so I need to go. Thanks for being here for me.
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Cheryl
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Mom to Matthew 13, Joseph 11, Sarah 10, Rachel 6, Hannah almost 4 and Mary 1
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nissag
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Cheryl,
I feel for you. I remember days like that. I struggled mightily after my 4th. What helped me was to take a good hard look at my diet, eating/sleeping/exercise patterns. You could be low on nutrients. Fatigue depletes nutrients and makes it that much harder to fight back from it. If you're nursing, that takes more energy.
Keep hydrated (at least 3qt a day if you're nursing), take a good vitamin (food based are excellent), and get the kids outside for 30 minutes at least 3 times a week, preferably every day. The chilly air and running around will tucker them out. We do it right before lunchtime, fill their bellies, and then off to quiet time. The littler ones (3 and 2) generally drop right off. Keeping a routine has regulated their little systems. They automagically fall asleep between 2 and 2:30 every day, no matter what we're doing now. When you get the littles quiet, make yourself a cup of tension tamer tea and just sit for an bit - no noise, no distractions.
Fish oil supplements (Carlson's is great) before bed for kids and Mama every night will help regulate sleep, too. And a bedtime routine helps to herald bedtime - even just a little family prayer or blessing.
I thinks it's amazing that you are already exercising regularly.  I bet your body is adjusting to that. It can feel miserable.
Treat yourself to a warm bath with lavender oil and epsom when you can. And if you're feeling bummed and tired and depressed for more than two weeks, call your midwife or OB. They can help so much. Blues can wait until baby is a little older to appear. I had a bout after my 4th that lasted nine months. That was my own fault because I didn't ask for help from my midwife.
Praying for you, dear.
Blessings
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Nissa
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Elena
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I think you need to have an honest discussion with your husband about what's going on. You're only human - and frankly men have no idea what it is like to recover from childbirth!
You might want to consider having your husband have a talk with your two boys. I'd put the 9 year old in charge of making simple meals! There are some really great kid's cookbooks out there. Maybe he and his brother could fix lunch or a simple dinner a couple of times a week. The 9-year-old just wants to be special. He's the oldest - give him some special more "grown up" responsibilities that are kind of fun
I would also put them in charge of an area of the house to keep in order. Make it a contest!
Then your husband and the boys could also work together to pick up the place every night.
A 6-year-old girl can dust! My girl has loved dusting since she was that age! Get her some dusters, show her how to do it and let her at it! I think a 6-year-old girl could also learn to shine the sink with a step stool of course.
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Elena
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Angel
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Cheryl,
You know, after dealing with 2 9 year olds now... and talking to other people... I think that 9 is one of the most difficult ages. I don't know why. But 9 was when my ds's TS started waxing with a vengeance, enough top finally make a diagnosis... and when my sweet dd turned 9 all of a sudden we had rolling eyes and big huffs and crying... I think there must be a hormonal change that takes place about this age. Or something, who knows.
Anyway, I know exactly how you feel. I don't know that I can give you any advice. I'm still getting up every 1.5 to 2 hrs at night with my 14 month old, and this feels harder than taking care of infant twins, whom I could at least pass off to their dad every once in a while to get some sleep. The things I do to at least cope are to have the older kids as independent in their schooling as I can get them, which means using workbooks. We also just got my 5 yo a CD player so he can listen to books on CD, which is helping our afternoons somewhat. My 14 month old doesn't nap very well either, so I have to do a lot of school while walking him around.
My now 3 yo twins never slept in a crib because they were climbing before they could walk. They sleep on mattresses on the floor, but the only way I could get them to sleep sometimes was to physically hold them there. Nursing while doing that was an adventure. But now they're napping very well, and I sit in the rocking chair and nurse the baby while I sing to them to get them to sleep. During the months when I was battling with them to stay in their beds, though, I didn't think this day would ever come!
I'm actually on the computer right now because I'm feeling sort of the same way you are. The house is a wreck, no one was cooperating with me very well, I've had a sick little one for the past few days... I'm just letting them all listen to Pippi Longstocking on CD while I think about how to proceed from here. The baby is in the backpack on my back, waking up from his morning nap. I will probably go do a little laundry, because I can think that way. But it will probably only be a little laundry.
I'm thinking of what I *can* tell you... I think that taking your vitamins is very important. I think that getting everybody outside every day for as long as you can is also important. I think that if you can get your dh to step in with some discipline for your boys, that will make a difference. I think that maybe accepting that chaos is just going to exist for a while may help you, too. I would recommend a pouch for the little one, if you don't have one... I wouldn't have been able to do anything this past year if I hadn't been able to wear the baby. Also, even a five minute nap sitting up in a rocking chair in the afternoons will help.
I can't say anything about transitioning from 4 to 5, because we went from 3 to 5, but I do think that some smaller family habits that may have worked with 4 kids may not work with 5. I do remember that when the twins were born I had to have the kids do a lot more than they were used to, as far as chores went, and they were not always happy about it. It took several months for them to accept the change, but it was worth persevering.
Anyway, Cheryl, you'll be in my prayers!
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Angela
Mom to 9, 7 boys and 2 girls
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ladybugs
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Can I ask a related question?
My 4 kids came in less than 4 years.
We haven't been pregnant since - for a few years it was intentional (through NFP) as many of you remember all of the instability with my dh's job and my bout with PPD.
That being said, now that my kids are older, 11, 10, almost 9 and almost 8, do you think that 5 would still put me over the brink or is it more for people who have more "regularly" spaced children?
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Love and God Bless,
Maria P
My etsy store - all proceeds go to help my fencing daughters!
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nissag
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I think that it's very individual, Maria. My fourth was very difficult, but 5 was a breeze and 6 wasn't too bad. I have a chronic illness to deal with on top of everything else, and we still did just fine.
I would think that having lots of littles close together would be more intense. They are very needy at that age sometimes.
Your kids are older now, and make excellent helpers. It can be as simple as being well prepared with routines in place for that transition time, giving duties to the older ones.
Still, there's no accounting for hormones. Very unpredictable for many women. Any one baby can send you for a hormonal loop. You just never know.
I have known women that have large families and have breezed through without much of a hiccup at all. One gal I know with 13 is just unflappable by nature. No worries at all...
Blessings,
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Nissa
Deacon's wife, mother of eleven, farmer, teacher, creator, cook.
At Home With the Gadbois Family
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ladybugs
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You're right, Nissa, it is individual.
I, too, have a chronic illness and the history with PPD with 2 babies...after the 4th one it was terrible, terrible.
Thanks, again.
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Love and God Bless,
Maria P
My etsy store - all proceeds go to help my fencing daughters!
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Tina P.
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You know, one thing that would greatly help our family out is to cut back on outside activities. We run kids to boy and girl scouts, choir practice, and play practice. One has music practice away from the house. Seasonally, we have sports activities as well. I don't see an area where we can cut back, however. The four who are in scouts are insistent that they stay in it. I co-direct the choir because I opened my mouth to suggest that our parish should have one. We're the biggest family with children at home in the homeschool group, so by default, we have the bodies that the play director needs for a well-appointed play. And music is very important to us as a family.
And Bridget, I'm afraid that if I let things slide, there'll be an avalanche. 
Cheryl, I've written several posts about the stress I'm feeling lately. Some involve changing schedules and including physical activity breaks for the kids. Boys, especially, need to burn off some energy. I'm still with you and praying for you in the stress mode. But I think because of subtle shifts in schedule and movement have improved relationships. Hopefully, they'll improve attention to and love of learning again as well.
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Tina, wife to one and mom to 9 + 3 in heaven
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BrendaPeter
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Hi Cheryl,
Homeschooling boys is very challenging, imo. As much as I'm a huge fan of homeschooling, I don't always believe it's the best place for boys as they grow into adolescents. Boys are extremely physical and need towork however it's difficult to provide real work for them in our affluent society. We're looking into getting some animals just to keep them busy. Wish we could put in a woodstove so that they could daily cut wood.
I realize that doesn't solve your immediate problems but maybe you can keep in mind that busy kids are happy kids. As difficult as it is to train them to help as much as possible around the house, it is time well-spent & will pay off down the road.
Another excellent use of time is to put the acadamic studies aside to focus on virtue-training. Usually that starts with just taking the time to re-connect and go over expectations. I have recently been asking myself what good is it if my dc turn about to be great scholars, yet are selfish & unmannerly? Where are my priorities?
Hope I'm not overwhelming you as it's obvious you're exhausted. Sleep deprivation is a huge cross.
I'll be praying for you!!!
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Blessings,
Brenda (mom to 6)
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monique
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Praying for you Cheryl. I've been in your shoes. My fifth is now almost 18 months and it does get better. What has worked for me is getting sleep, exercise, vitamins, herbs and eating well. But even before that is prayer. God will give you the graces to raise and homeschool the children if that is what he is calling you to do.
Don't be afraid to ask for help. I know it's hard. Ask your husband, family, friends. You are not alone.
After my fourth I felt like I was just barely keeping me head above water. It was hard. Then I found out I was pregnant with number 5 and I was certain I was going to drown! I haven't yet, but there have certainly been hard times.
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Monique
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Cheryl
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Thanks for all the new comments and prayers. I'm feeling good today. I just came back from a pumpkin patch field trip. The weather is nice here. I also just hired a housecleaning service to start on Wednesday. And I think I got about 7 hours of sleep last night (broken up.)
I am going to try to eat and drink better and take vitamins. I know I don't drink enough water and I eat too many empty calories. Nissa, thanks for the specific suggestions. I noticed yesterday afternoon that I felt like crying around 3:00 pm, so I went outside with 3 of the dc and I felt much better getting that fresh air and getting away from my surroundings. I almost always tell myself that I can't go out until I finish this or that and then I rarely end up going out at all.
I've let the schooling and picking up of bedrooms slide for two days now, which has made the house more peaceful. We've just been doing read alouds. Next week I'll get back into doing math. My dc are not very independent with school at all. Most of the plans I made for this year involve me helping them.  I'll think about that more later. For now I'm going to focus on praying more often and taking better care of my body.
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Cheryl
Wife to Bob ('97)
Mom to Matthew 13, Joseph 11, Sarah 10, Rachel 6, Hannah almost 4 and Mary 1
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Struggling after baby #5
