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marianne
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I'm at the breaking point. My 22mo is wild and I cannot properly supervise my littles and homeschool four children. My kids have never been to school, so I am not saying this lightly. I am at the point where I need something to give.
Would you send your 1yo and 3yo to daycare at the church down the street for part of the day and homeschool in peace, or would you send your older children to school and focus on the littles? We are living in a three ring circus, but it's not so entertaining!
I have had reliability problems with "mother's helpers". Please give me some advice - thanks.
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Angi
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It depends...
in my town, the school is awful - so I would send the littles to a wonderful preschool nearby.
in my last town, the school was wonderul - so I would have send the bigs, and kept the littles at home.
So, I would feel that it depend on which is better in your town, the school or the preschool.
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folklaur
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I let mine go to Preschool at our parish. They had a great time. (it was only 3 days a week for half a day.)
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LisaR
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I sent my just turned 14 y/o to high school. I'm so grateful and glad for the foundation that so many years of homeschooling had given him.
personally, I'd be nervous about the germ issue and illnesses that my littles would be bringing home for daycare.
also, my personality is that I'd be the type to get "it all done" while my littles were away, meaning dinner prep, cleaning, etc, and then my olders would still not necessarily be getting all of my attention with schooling.
there is a peace of mind for me that my oldest is getting a good solid academic education. I like being able to be present to my littles, and believe me, there is still plenty of time to be present to an older, schooled child- their circadian rhythm starts to change and they will stay up later to chat!! 
praying for you.
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ALmom
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Marianne:
This isn't an answer to your question, but an observation that your oldest is only 10 and your little is at the age that I consider the most difficult as far as getting school done with others. There were many years that I met my husband at the door with phone book in hand tempted to call the nearest school. Really, this wasn't what either of us wanted and in our hearts we knew it wasn't the right path for us - but I felt like such a failure and just was at wits end to the point that I felt I wasn't a good parent or a good teacher. I'm so glad we accepted imperfection and kept at it. Yes, there were some academic gaps and some things I didn't manage ideally in terms of even formation - but God continues to show me how this really was the right path and it was the best for our children. We learned to act as a team - the whole family joined to solve the noise, interruption, toddler needs attention, I cannot concentrate scenarios. We discovered how to be considerate of each others varying needs. Some learning styles interfere with another, and we each had to make allowances for differing needs and distractions. We learned so many life lessons much more important than those required for academic success. We made things work and learned how to work together to do this, however imperfectly, over those years of trial by fire. We learned, at least partially, how to be gentler with ourselves and each other.
Oh, and your 4 youngest are 7, 5, 3 and 1. In our state I am not required to report to the state so I don't stress. We have learning materials for selection, some read alouds, math type manipulatives and things to entertain. If you are working with the 7 year old in writing - do it in a way that all the others can be at the table too with their own cornmeal trays. Then they can help you clean up too! Take a relaxed attitude especially with anyone for whom the state isn't going to be knocking at your door. You'll be amazed at what the children learn when you aren't teaching them. My most active learner and the one that has the easiest time now is the one I felt so guilty about because I seemed to always be doing vision therapy with someone, or trying to help a panicky older child or.... He taught himself to read. Oh, and right now all those different people seem to just create a circus - but you will be amazed how each of their differing passions begin to enrich the environment of your homeschool in ways you never dreamed - often in ways you tried to create and fizzed when you were in charge  . It has been very humbling to learn that I haven't been that important to the process of learning if you are looking at the traditional teaching model or even the guiding, planning, ... It is hard to describe, but the littles grow up so fast and they have a new set of interests and passions that become the fuel that excites that older child that you've been fighting with for years to learn the very thing. Be encouraged. Lots of hugs. The circus is fun and important too - only it is much more enjoyable looking back a few years after the fact!!!!
Is there a way to revamp your expectations and be able to happily keep all at home? Is it possible to have your oldest have some outside accountability: co-op class or even a course or two farmed out? Is there an area where just a tiny bit of support would go a long way? Would the 9 and 10 year old like to have the opportunity to be your "help" for some outside the normal chores that just weigh on you but if they are done, you feel more peace? Could you take a couple of weeks off of academics and do a rabbit trail with your children, training them in home management? I find it impossible to help with writing after a certain age and I sign up for some sort of service to help me through that. If someone offers a science lab or some such, I do that. I have also rotated children in outside time using the older two to help in the supervision of the little. All of my children have done a great deal of cooking at the ages of your 9 and 10 year old. My son started doing eggs at about 7, mostly because I was too slow and disorganized. On the worst days, I tearfully begged our lady to fill in for all my failures. I did a lot of apologizing.
I have also found that, for the littlest, water play, cornmeal in a bucket, sidewalk chalk, tongs, finger paints somewhere where the mess is fine and with the child in clothes that even the poor don't want all help sanity. Minimizing what I expect with the olders by allowing a certain amount of free exploration in their areas of strength and passion while focusing my energies on the areas that are really weak - picking one weakness (academic and character) each year to tackle in depth. If you have a few independent things for the older, then do something special with the littler first before going off to work with the olders - and rotate olders working with you or entertaining the 1 year old. Take a nice 1/2 day every now and again and just explore the nature trail - all for fun and refreshment - no stess on anyone for any kind of product. Focus on reasonable goals just for this year.
A child's critical formation is in the first 6 years so being able to provide that formation is a treasure. I found my 1 year old loved "doing dishes" and many other chores alongside me. My oldest were distracted by the youngest's play, but keeping desk work short and to the essentials helped us through those few years. Things will look so different in about 2 years. Even by next year, the ability of your oldest to do real independent work will simply take off like a rocket. Ten, at least here, seems to be a transition year, where they are learning order, organization, focus and so on. I have to look at or review things closely or you get taken for a hit when you suddenly realize that the child has wheedled out of everything except the area of passion and certainly has managed to do nothing in the weakest area.
It is hard, and I'm really sorry and don't mean in any way to tell you what to do. I just vividly recall the intense burden I felt early on. I know everyone's location and circumstances are different and after prayer and discussion with your husband, I'm sure you will know in your heart what you are really called to do in your family. Many prayers for peace and certainty in terms of the decisions.
Janet
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10 Bright Stars
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Marianne,
I completely identify with what you are going through. I have a wide age difference too with my oldest two in 8th and 6th grade, and then a few in elementary and then two, 2 year old twins AND a one year old baby, plus a 5 year old. I started feeling as if my youngest were "homeschool orphans" since they do not co-exist peacefully in the "classroom" and I felt as if I could not supervise them all the time. I actually thought about day care for them during the day too! But, for starters, I can't afford that, and then I started thinking....
Really, if we feel as if we can't do it all, we are doing TOO much. I finally came to the realization that I was doing too much of a "regular school " at home. My little ones really need me to develop correctly, yet I was always shooing them away so the olders could do school.
Anyway, what I have found that is working, RIGHT NOW, (i.e may not work tomorrow ) is to make out a detailed lesson plan for the bigger boys to read to themselves each day. They go to the classroom early in the morning and get to work with their math, reading their workbooks, writing paragraphs on what they read so I KNOW they read it etc. Then, I take the middle two, who are in 2nd and 4th and we do houseowrk as a family. We all do the breakfast dishes, which never seemed to get done when we all tried to get to "school" by 8 or 9. Then, the little ones are helping out, have me right there, we bake and clean etc.
After a little while, say around 10ish, I start school with the middle kids at the kitchen table. The twins play around us, or elsewhere with their toys, but I am right there on the same level with them and can be availible. I go outside with them and watch them play while the middle two work on math or workbooks that they can do alone. (map skills, phonics etc.) I have one of the other kids watch them or play with them as I have to help with English etc.
Then, at night, my husband checks all the bigger kids school work, goes over math that they didn't understand etc. I try to plan a whole weeks worth of work for them to work on independently. This is just what I am doing "now", since I really would like to do more of the older kids history and English with them each day etc. We all do a Saint story together in the morning too. If your spouse can't check the work, maybe you could do the checking and going over in the evening when your husband is at least home to watch the littler ones too. Just a thought. I feel MUCH more motherly and sane this way. It isn't perfect, but I feel better about being there for the little ones as Mom, and I honestly think the older boys are becoming more responsible and rely on me a lot less. They used to always try to talk me out of every assignment, or beg for me to help them with everything. I think this is a good season in time to get them learning in a more independent way, and helping them to frankly, grow up a little!!!
So, things may change in the future, but it sounds as if your older two are old enough to at least do a little on their own each day. Also, are there some things you could move to a Saturday, like art, or map skills?? Maybe you could wait and do whole classes over the summer? (Like do ALL of the history in the summer so that you don't have your plate so full each day. ) Maybe try to think outside of the box, usually YOUR box!! I am my own worst enemy when it comes to putting TOO many "to do's" in my day, and when I think about the "big picture" or what will really matter when they leave home, a lot of stuff can get tossed or it can wait till the little ones are older. I kept thinking "I" had to be right there for every single assignment or the oldest wouldn't learn. I am finding out that that is NOT the case, and they are learning very well in an independent fashion. Again, this is just what has to be done for this season in our homeschooling for the safety of the little ones and their proper development.
I would think if you CAN afford the preschool program at the church though and it is only for a few days/hours a week, that would be a fun option for them. & nbsp;
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Mom of 11 blessings:
Bobby 19, David 17, Noah 14,
Mary 12, Gracie 10,
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William Anthony 4, Joseph 3 and Luisa Marie - born in M
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LeeAnn
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For me, it would depend on the preschool type (supervised play or serious pre-academic?), location (right down the street is good) and cost. I've considered this as well.
Next year I will have my three girls in 6th, 4th and 1st. My son will be 3. If I can get him potty trained by then (ha) I may consider sending him to the Lutheran preschool down the block two mornings a week. Right now he is content to play with his "guys" (little figures) and other such toys while watching a "baby video" on my laptop at the other end of ther room while we do lessons.
I know, it's horrible, my 2 year old watches dvds,  but this is how we get things done for now. When it's sunny and dry, he can go outside, but it'll be a few months. My consolation is that my 5-11 year olds only watch a video or two on the weekends. TV is for preschoolers in our house.
Anyway... I do about a half hour of reading, handwriting and some math with my kindergartener, start the 3rd grader on her lessons, then the 5th grader. I encourage her to do her workbook type stuff first that she can do without me and then if I'm not done with her sisters yet, she goes to practice piano for thirty minutes. When she comes back we sit and read through her other assignments.
I think it's fine to send out the toddler for some supervised play. If things were ideal, you'd have a nearby relative or mother's helper to occupy him while you're busy teaching, but as you've mentioned, it hasn't worked out that way. Maybe after a few months your 22-month-old will mellow out and be more content playing at home while you are busy with lessons in the morning. My current 5yo was an absolute terror from age 2-4, so I sympatize!
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kingvozzo
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I've sent all 3 of my kids to pre-school at 3 y/o, and I plan to send the baby when it's time. Granted, with my oldest, I wasn't planning on hs'ing, but I've found it very helpful to have that short amount of less-hectic time. The 2 preschool's we used were great for the kids, not stressful, mostly crafts and activities, fun stuff that it's sometimes challenging to get to at home...it's really worked out for us.
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TxTrish
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I sent my youngest child (he was 3) to preschool for 2 or 3 days a week last year. I must qualify this by saying that it was a private preschool in home that a dear friend of mine owned. She was formerly a teacher and an early educational genious! I knew all the families and their children who were the other students, Earlene-my friend- loved, loved, loved, high energy little boys and my daughter(16) had been working for for her 1 day a week so she could have an office day for a couple years. There were only 7 total students and I split the week with another friend (also a homeschool mother, with a prek youngest child).
It was a perfect situation. Since I drove a 15 passenger van, I helped drive to field trips and was her substitute for sick days.
So, the result? My youngest 2 daughters (K and 2nd last year) had a great school year, because I was able to focus on them and build good habits. My pre-k son learned to "do school" and will co-operate during school or play quietly. It has made a world of difference for our family. I was conflicted over being a homeschool mom who sent her child away to preschool, but it was absolutely the right answer for us.
Trish
girl 16, boy 14, girls 8 & 6, boy 4
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marianne
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Thank you so much for the thoughtful replies! I posted and then my computer went down 5 minutes later - I read your replies on my phone last night, but haven't been able to post again until today.
Anyway, my attitude was much better today, and I kept my sanity - but we didn't finish our schoolwork. My oldest is very independent now, but my 9yo and 8yo still need a lot of support. My 5yo gets about 15 minutes of school a day, but I would love to be able to read to him for about an hour or so, like I did when my older children were his age. I just don't have the time.
I visited a little daycare today. I was not impressed. They have mandatory nap time from 12 - 2:30pm, which would be a problem for my NON NAPPING 3yo and 22mo. Did I mention the 22mo doesn't nap anymore? No. She tears apart the house for the entire duration of the day, unless I'm actively playing with her. I've never experienced "homeschool burnout", but I'm totally having "toddler care burnout"! I love homeschool time and I thoroughly enjoy homeschooling, but just can't get it all together with these toddlers underfoot. I love them to death of course, but I'm being pulled in too many directions during the day right now.
I like the idea of lowering my expectations, but in reality, our lives and schooling are already SO imperfect that I hesitate. My kids do OK on standardized testing, and are on grade level, but they aren't the whiz kids far surpassing their public schooled peers or anything.
OK, now I'm rambling, but thanks for praying and giving me advice. I really appreciate your wisdom!
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LisaR
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marianne wrote:
My oldest is very independent now,
I visited a little daycare today. I was not impressed. They have mandatory nap time from 12 - 2:30pm, which would be a problem for my NON NAPPING 3yo and 22mo. |
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these are two reasons my oldest went to school also:
1. he was very independent from about age 10 on- and I wanted him to have the opportunity to be taught by someone rather than self - tutored.
my now 7th grade 12 y/o basically self tutors at this point too, and will go to school most likely by high school.
2. the pre schools and daycares just do not seem to mesh our family lifestyle at all. and don;t get me started about all of the "playdate" talk!!
also as an aside:
while I can find plenty of large families and partial homeschool families and support at our Catholic High School, I could not find any like minded people at any of the pre schools closest to me...
it really could boil down to what someone mentioned: it depends on where you live.
it was interesting to see some of you put your littles in pre school- I thought I was the only one who had considered it!!
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
Thomas 11
Dominic 8
Maria Gianna 5
Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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teachingmyown
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Is there just a "mom's day out" at a local church instead of a daycare? Daycare centers have a completely different philosophy. A mom's day out or real preschool is about the experience for the kids. Daycare is a business.
I would love to find (and afford) a Montessori preschool for my littles!
Good luck!
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SeaStar
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In the "Managers of Their Homes" book by Terri Maxwell, she talks about how she scheduled the older children to each have a time slot playing with the younger ones so she could give another child her full attention.
She said the kids loved this and carefully guarded their 'playtime" with the younger ones. She kept special bins of toys put away that could only come out during these playtimes so they were always new and entertaining.
Maybe that would be worth a shot?
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LisaR
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teachingmyown wrote:
Is there just a "mom's day out" at a local church instead of a daycare? Daycare centers have a completely different philosophy. A mom's day out or real preschool is about the experience for the kids. Daycare is a business.
I would love to find (and afford) a Montessori preschool for my littles!
Good luck! |
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the unfortunate problem now is that EVERYTHING is labeled as pre- school- no parent wants the stigma of sending their child "just to daycare" anymore, so it is all called a school. and montessori is a term used very loosely as well...I've visited a few Montessori pre schools and they were almost nothing like each other except some of the materials were the same.
the moms day out is a good idea. I know some churches around here do that.
another thought is to swap kids once a week? take a homeschool friends preschoolers/toddlers for a day, and then she takes yours for one day?
when I did this for a time, although the mess factor increased, ,my littles were more occupied and happy with a friend to play with...
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Lisa
dh Tim '92
Joseph 17
Paul 14
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Isaac Vincent 9/21/10! and...
many little saints in heaven!
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marianne
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teachingmyown wrote:
Is there just a "mom's day out" at a local church instead of a daycare? Daycare centers have a completely different philosophy. A mom's day out or real preschool is about the experience for the kids. Daycare is a business.
I would love to find (and afford) a Montessori preschool for my littles!
Good luck! |
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Not that I know of but I could ask around.
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marianne
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SeaStar wrote:
In the "Managers of Their Homes" book by Terri Maxwell, she talks about how she scheduled the older children to each have a time slot playing with the younger ones so she could give another child her full attention.
She said the kids loved this and carefully guarded their 'playtime" with the younger ones. She kept special bins of toys put away that could only come out during these playtimes so they were always new and entertaining.
Maybe that would be worth a shot? |
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I definitely do this at various times throughout the day, but Lizzie only puts up with her older siblings for a little while and then gets annoyed. Probably because they don't do everything the "right" way or something...This morning, my ds gave her 3 cups of orange juice in a row during his time to watch her.  They've realized that keeping her pumped full of sugar and snacks keeps her the happiest! (not good)
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crusermom
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On occasion I have put a 4/5 year old in a half day pre-school or kindy. More often than not I found it was just such a pain with the drop off and the pick up. Then the decompressing when we got home. Not to mention the requests for playdates and class parties and functions. Often it was more trouble than it was worth. I did have a neighbor where I used to live that watched my toddlers one morning a week. That was a life saver at times. She was great and my little ones loved her. The cost was more than preschool but it was more flexible and less of a hassle.
I was the only one that did not like the preschool - the little guys usually loved it.
Mary
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saigemom
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All of mine did 3 day mornings when they were 4. They loved it and I liked the break to settle into a rhythm with the olders. They had my mornings and my youngers had my afternoons on those days. It helped calm my crazy toddler down some.
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Amanda
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My dd went to preschool 3 mornings a week last year (she turned 4 that Oct.) and does 5 mornings a week this year (at almost 5). I only have two other children, but the oldest has special needs and the youngest just turned 1. We *could* get school done with her home, I suppose, but I know I would keep pushing her onto the computer or towards the TV. I am happier knowing she is busy and happy. She is a very social child.
I have said that I would consider school for all my kids if it were always like a good preschool--small classes, a couple of teachers, learning through play, social skills emphasized, etc.
I am not sure that I would send my 22-month-old to a daycare, though. (I did send my oldest to a Montessori program at 18 months, so no judgment if you do go that route.) I have a feeling that if your youngest is really such an attention sponge (and I say that with love, as my oldest is such a child), you might have to listen to the teachers complain about her, which would be more trouble and heartache than it would be worth (been there with my oldest). OTOH, maybe if she could just go for the AM and avoid nap time, she would do all right.
I know you said you have not had success with mother's helpers, but I wonder if you could find a more reliable person. We have had success with homeschooled teens who were dying to show off how responsible they could be.
May I also suggest, tentatively (because I know that you're drowning and I would understand if you wanted to throw your coffee cup at me for giving you something else to do) that with more training, the oldest couple of children might be more helpful with the baby?
I hope this is somehow remotely helpful and that I have not annoyed you too much, writing here with my mere three kids!
Amanda
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marianne
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Amanda wrote:
My dd went to preschool 3 mornings a week last year (she turned 4 that Oct.) and does 5 mornings a week this year (at almost 5). I only have two other children, but the oldest has special needs and the youngest just turned 1. We *could* get school done with her home, I suppose, but I know I would keep pushing her onto the computer or towards the TV. I am happier knowing she is busy and happy. She is a very social child.
I have said that I would consider school for all my kids if it were always like a good preschool--small classes, a couple of teachers, learning through play, social skills emphasized, etc.
I am not sure that I would send my 22-month-old to a daycare, though. (I did send my oldest to a Montessori program at 18 months, so no judgment if you do go that route.) I have a feeling that if your youngest is really such an attention sponge (and I say that with love, as my oldest is such a child), you might have to listen to the teachers complain about her, which would be more trouble and heartache than it would be worth (been there with my oldest). OTOH, maybe if she could just go for the AM and avoid nap time, she would do all right.
I know you said you have not had success with mother's helpers, but I wonder if you could find a more reliable person. We have had success with homeschooled teens who were dying to show off how responsible they could be.
May I also suggest, tentatively (because I know that you're drowning and I would understand if you wanted to throw your coffee cup at me for giving you something else to do) that with more training, the oldest couple of children might be more helpful with the baby?
I hope this is somehow remotely helpful and that I have not annoyed you too much, writing here with my mere three kids!
Amanda |
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Oh, no offense taken. You have some good points. We had another crazy day, with dd repeatedly taking off all of her clothes and streaking through the school room, and climbing all over us while we tried to read, ripping pages out of the books that were scattered around on the sofa. Nothing you all haven't seen before and probably deal with better than me! Ds11 made the comment that if we put her in daycare, she'll probably get kicked out for being so naughty!
I really don't know of any teens who would be willing to help me out 5 days a week, which is what I really need. Maybe I could look for a nanny type person, but then I have one MORE person in my house, and the mess and interruptions would still happen.
Another thing that I wanted to say is that if I could find a good situation for child care, it would only be until we move cross country in March - so really for a short season. I think that by then, dd would be more open to correction and direction. Ds3 would be 4 and really, he is fine - I just want to send him because he is very social and spends way too much time in front of the TV while we do school right now. He would probably really enjoy a daycare situation, as long as the care was good.
Oh, how I wish we had a Montessori school in town and if we did, I wish it could be affordable. I know that daycare is far from the perfect environment for these two, but right now, our home environment is very much lacking for them, too. Schooling four kids takes a decent amount of time out of my day, unfortunately for the littles.
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: daycare for littles vs. school for olders
