Oh, Dearest Mother, Sweetest Virgin of Altagracia, our Patroness. You are our Advocate and to you we recommend our needs. You are our Teacher and like disciples we come to learn from the example of your holy life. You are our Mother, and like children, we come to offer you all of the love of our hearts. Receive, dearest Mother, our offerings and listen attentively to our supplications. Amen.



Active Topics || Favorites || Member List || Search || About Us || Help || Register || Login
Living Learning
 4Real Forums : Living Learning
Subject Topic: From the century thread...how/how much Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message << Prev Topic | Next Topic >>
Bookswithtea
Forum All-Star
Forum All-Star
Avatar

Joined: July 07 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2621
Posted: Aug 05 2008 at 9:03am | IP Logged Quote Bookswithtea

Mary shared a quote from Debra Bell about teaching our children "how" to learn, versus trying to teach "everything".

While I don't know how it would work for math and science, I suppose its possible it could work for history. So for that subject alone, and considering all the years a child is homeschooled, what time periods/centuries would you leave out?

__________________
Blessings,

~Books

mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
Back to Top View Bookswithtea's Profile Search for other posts by Bookswithtea
 
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
Posted: Aug 05 2008 at 11:22am | IP Logged Quote JodieLyn

You know I was thinking about this the other day.. I don't think it's so much necessary to leave out things as to spend less time and resources covering some.

You know.. I bet if you think about it you can see it from your own education.. they hit the "highlights" and don't bother with the rest.

I think for Science you'll also find that you plan to leave out good sections anyway.. like are you going to cover astronomy and oceanography and chemistry and biology and anatomy and quantum physics and then in those are you going to cover everything?

And math.. while there's a progression once you hit a certain point there's different things to learn.. like business accounting or how to calculate statistics (you should know something about them of course) or calculus or whatever. Most of us can make it through life without even algebra ;) and even college may not need more than through algebra2.

At some point you have to specialize.

__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4

All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
Back to Top View JodieLyn's Profile Search for other posts by JodieLyn
 
Kathryn UK
Forum All-Star
Forum All-Star
Avatar

Joined: Feb 27 2005
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 924
Posted: Aug 05 2008 at 12:30pm | IP Logged Quote Kathryn UK

JodieLyn wrote:
At some point you have to specialize.


That is one of the big differences between the British and American education systems. Here in the UK there is a lot more specialisation, earlier. From age 16 most students study only three or four subjects, and at university they will only study a single subject. Maths, English and science are the only compulsory subjects up to 16 - everything else is optional after 14.

I think there are pros and cons to both the UK and US approaches - your breadth or our depth. Ultimately, though, you can't have both. Something has to give. It is a matter of deciding what balance between the two works best for individual children. How to choose what to leave out? Good question, but I don't have an answer

__________________
Kathryn
Dh Michael, Rachel(3/95) Hannah(8/98) Naomi(6/06) (11/07)
The Bookworm
Back to Top View Kathryn UK's Profile Search for other posts by Kathryn UK
 
Bookswithtea
Forum All-Star
Forum All-Star
Avatar

Joined: July 07 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2621
Posted: Aug 05 2008 at 4:10pm | IP Logged Quote Bookswithtea

Sigh...Kathryn, I think the British system makes so much more sense than ours. My mom is British and my uncles all are doing well in the world after finishing your version of high school and then going into trades (one is a plasterer and the other is in banking).



__________________
Blessings,

~Books

mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
Back to Top View Bookswithtea's Profile Search for other posts by Bookswithtea
 
TracyQ
Forum All-Star
Forum All-Star
Avatar

Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: New York
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1323
Posted: Aug 05 2008 at 5:12pm | IP Logged Quote TracyQ

Wow Kathryn! That is absolutely FASCINATING! I had NO idea there is such a difference!

How long in University is a person then???

I just heard that in the U.S. it's most likely a person will not finish college in 4 years (their Bachelors Degree), and that it'll more likely take 5 years. I also heard that many places want you to now have a Masters Degree, adding on 2 more years of college.

No wonder kids are up to their eyeballs in debt by the time they graduate college, and can't even find jobs that pay enough to survive on their own!!!

__________________
Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
Back to Top View TracyQ's Profile Search for other posts by TracyQ
 
Erin
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: Feb 23 2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5814
Posted: Aug 05 2008 at 5:14pm | IP Logged Quote Erin

Kathryn UK wrote:
That is one of the big differences between the British and American education systems. Here in the UK there is a lot more specialisation, earlier. From age 16 most students study only three or four subjects, and at university they will only study a single subject. Maths, English and science are the only compulsory subjects up to 16 - everything else is optional after 14.

I think there are pros and cons to both the UK and US approaches - your breadth or our depth. Ultimately, though, you can't have both. Something has to give.


Kathryn

Every time you write about the British system I am fascinated by how similar the Australian system it to Britain, We just must be more British than I realised.

Books,

It has always been my contention that there is no way you can cover all history periods, I would strongly agree with Debra Bell. Give your dc the SKILLS and hopefully the desire and they will be learning their whole life long. I'm sure there are many things that you are learning now that you never knew before.

Bookswithtea wrote:
what time periods/centuries would you leave out?


Well what you decide here is really your choice. You need to ask yourself "Is it really important that we cover the Vikings?" for example. As a Catholic I would make certain that dc have some idea of Church history and in particular the 'sticky parts' The Reformation for example must be covered and the English period of Elizabeth and Mary. I tend to go by dc's interest too, I figure if they are not interested then they won't remember anyhow.


__________________
Erin
Faith Filled Days
Seven Little Australians
Back to Top View Erin's Profile Search for other posts by Erin Visit Erin's Homepage
 
Kathryn UK
Forum All-Star
Forum All-Star
Avatar

Joined: Feb 27 2005
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 924
Posted: Aug 06 2008 at 11:26am | IP Logged Quote Kathryn UK

TracyQ wrote:
Wow Kathryn! That is absolutely FASCINATING! I had NO idea there is such a difference!

How long in University is a person then???


In England and Wales three years for a bachelor's degree. Scotland has a different system, with four year university courses. A master's adds an extra year.

Many university courses are very narrowly focused as it is possible to specialise within a single subject ... so for example, my degree is in history and I concentrated on medieval history. Over the entire three years I took courses on British history between 400AD and 1750AD, European history between 400AD and 1500AD, and from 1800AD onwards, medieval universities, and the reign of King Henry II (1154-1189). Apart from a short Latin course, that was it. I could have chosen a broader range of courses, but medieval history is my thing .

In theory, the specialisation during the last two years of "high" school means that students are more advanced in the subject they plan to study when they start university.



__________________
Kathryn
Dh Michael, Rachel(3/95) Hannah(8/98) Naomi(6/06) (11/07)
The Bookworm
Back to Top View Kathryn UK's Profile Search for other posts by Kathryn UK
 
Bookswithtea
Forum All-Star
Forum All-Star
Avatar

Joined: July 07 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2621
Posted: Aug 06 2008 at 11:49am | IP Logged Quote Bookswithtea

See, that just makes so much more sense! I don't think my uncles attended past 16. That means that the last two years of high school there are what we do and then re-do in the first two years of college here. What a waste of time and money!



__________________
Blessings,

~Books

mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
Back to Top View Bookswithtea's Profile Search for other posts by Bookswithtea
 
TracyQ
Forum All-Star
Forum All-Star
Avatar

Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: New York
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1323
Posted: Aug 06 2008 at 11:56am | IP Logged Quote TracyQ

Bookswithtea wrote:
and then re-do in the first two years of college here. What a waste of time and money!


Well, it's not a waste of time and money according to the universities who are getting ALL that money, and requiring so much extra in terms of content to graduate! That's why there's SUCH a problem now with our sytem, and why the government just had to take this issue up in the legislature! It IS truly maddening and dumbfounding!

__________________
Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
Back to Top View TracyQ's Profile Search for other posts by TracyQ
 
~Rachel~
Forum All-Star
Forum All-Star
Avatar

Joined: March 29 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 677
Posted: Aug 06 2008 at 7:39pm | IP Logged Quote ~Rachel~

Having been part of the British system and teaching my kids now via an American system of sorts , I have to add there really are pros and cons to each.
Personally I like the idea of less specialisation in school, but prefer the English university system... but I think it really depends on the schools you attend

As for history, I like to read through a spine (think Our Island Story) and gloss over the areas DS is uninterested in, while focusing on those he IS interested in

__________________
~Rachel~
Wife to William
Mum to James 13, Lenore 8
Lighting a Fire
Back to Top View ~Rachel~'s Profile Search for other posts by ~Rachel~ Visit ~Rachel~'s Homepage
 
lapazfarm
Forum All-Star
Forum All-Star
Avatar

Joined: July 21 2005
Location: Alaska
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6082
Posted: Aug 06 2008 at 8:02pm | IP Logged Quote lapazfarm

See, I think one of the problems is that Americans WANT IT ALL.
If we specialize earlier, and little Tommy goes the trade school route, then what if he wants to be a dentist, or a lawyer, or an engineer when he grows up? We certainly don't want to be responsible for limiting his options at all! Heck, they don't even have to pick a major for the first two years of college.
So, we sacrifice the chance at real depth in any subject at all, so that we keep all of our "options" open for as long as humanly possible.
It really is ridiculous if you ask me.(Which, of course, no one does!LOL!)

__________________
Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
Back to Top View lapazfarm's Profile Search for other posts by lapazfarm Visit lapazfarm's Homepage
 
JodieLyn
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: Sept 06 2006
Location: Oregon
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12234
Posted: Aug 06 2008 at 8:08pm | IP Logged Quote JodieLyn

It is rediculous Theresa.

I also wonder how much of it is misplaced pride or oneupsmanship type of stuff.

I mean.. could you have said when you were in high school that you wanted to be a stay at home mom homeschooling your children and didn't need a college degree for that?

In my experience not going to college is a "lesser" goal and therefore less desirable, less acceptable.. You know.. if Tommy loves cars and how they work and could be a great mechanic.. he's probably still being pushed by someone somewhere to have higher aspirations and go to college and get a "real profession".

__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4

All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
Back to Top View JodieLyn's Profile Search for other posts by JodieLyn
 
CrunchyMom
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: Sept 03 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6385
Posted: Aug 07 2008 at 2:22am | IP Logged Quote CrunchyMom

Intelligence in the Classroom

What's Wrong With Vocational School?

Aztecs vs. Greeks

I think that this series of op-ed articles by Charles Murray are very pertinent to the discussion here!

I really wanted to hear him speak but missed it and I haven't yet had time to listen, but others have told me this lecture on the subject was also excellent!

Four Simple Truths For Bringing America's Schools Back to Reality

__________________
Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony

[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
Back to Top View CrunchyMom's Profile Search for other posts by CrunchyMom
 
Bookswithtea
Forum All-Star
Forum All-Star
Avatar

Joined: July 07 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2621
Posted: Aug 07 2008 at 7:45am | IP Logged Quote Bookswithtea

lapazfarm wrote:
See, I think one of the problems is that Americans WANT IT ALL.
If we specialize earlier, and little Tommy goes the trade school route, then what if he wants to be a dentist, or a lawyer, or an engineer when he grows up? We certainly don't want to be responsible for limiting his options at all!


Thank you so much for saying this. I kept trying to say something like this but it wasn't coming out right. This is exactly what is frustrating me! Its not that I idealize or long for living during prairie times. I long for the choice to help a child specialize early on with no regrets, for a culture that respects men who work with their hands as well as those who are paid for what they know in their heads. Do you know how often I hear hs families say,

"Well, these days a child needs to have a master's just to compete in the market."

And it makes me want to scream, "If that's true, then there is something very very wrong with the way we view education here."

__________________
Blessings,

~Books

mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
Back to Top View Bookswithtea's Profile Search for other posts by Bookswithtea
 
Bookswithtea
Forum All-Star
Forum All-Star
Avatar

Joined: July 07 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2621
Posted: Aug 07 2008 at 10:00am | IP Logged Quote Bookswithtea

Crunchymom, those articles are *amazing*! I cannot believe he was even heard in the WSJ, considering how "elitist" he sounds to the politically correct ear.

I've saved them on my computer. Thank you for sharing.

__________________
Blessings,

~Books

mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
Back to Top View Bookswithtea's Profile Search for other posts by Bookswithtea
 

If you wish to post a reply to this topic you must first login
If you are not already registered you must first register

  [Add this topic to My Favorites] Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Hosting and Support provided by theNetSmith.com