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Angel
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| Posted: July 24 2008 at 8:57am | IP Logged
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I'm getting ready to start kindergarten with my 5 yo ds. I've used Montessori here and there along the way with him, but we've never had any required preschool time. For kindergarten, I am not looking at anything terribly complicated. I want to focus on phonics, a bit of handwriting, and some math. I thought that, given his personality, he might like Serendipity, or perhaps a slightly silly alphabet story written by me to introduce the letters. But I haven't decided anything yet; I'm not planning to start this with him until September.
Yesterday, he told me that ABC books are "boring" and ABCs are "boring", and when I mentioned that in the fall we would start doing some school that I hoped would be fun, he said, "Oh, man!" and flopped over the couch. Now, I know that part of this attitude is the result of watching my oldest ds (who has special needs) throw tantrums and complain over his school work. But part of it is just that my 5 yo is *incredibly* stubborn. Getting him to do *anything* is a constant battle -- to put on his clothes in the morning, to keep his glasses on, to do his minimum of chores (like, pick up the blocks on the rug, that kind of thing). He's a very sweet, likeable kid, mature for his age in many ways. But he has got it in his head that "school is bad", and he doesn't want anything to do with letters. (Numbers I think will be a little different.)
When he told me this, I had just spent a lot of time reading through Serendipity, looking up booklists of ABC books, that kind of thing. But now I wonder:
Should I forge ahead with the "fun" road and see if I can woo him over to it? Will it be fun if it's forced?
Should I go to doing a phonics program (like Phonics Pathways or Teach Your Child to Read...) for 5-10 minutes a day-- kind of with the idea that we'll get it out of the way quickly, with more free time?
Of course, an option may be to move slowly into "kindergarten" by taking a Montessori approach -- just set aside a time that will be "school" and allow him free choice (for instance, practical life, which he enjoys) until he gets used to the idea that he has a required period of "school" every day. Honestly, this might be the best way to do it, but... I am tired, and I'm not sure I can set up a whole environment this year. I was hoping to do something a bit simpler this year, using Montessori in a more relaxed fashion.
I suppose another idea is just to wait until he's older... but waiting seemed to cause problems for my older two, which I wanted to avoid with my 5 yo.
Anyone have any advice???
--Angela
Three Plus Two
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SallyT
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| Posted: July 24 2008 at 11:43am | IP Logged
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No brilliant suggestions, Angela -- but you've met my son Ben . . . he and your 5-year-old got on well, as I recall. we're actually re-doing kindergarten this year, at 6, because he was so not into it at 5. I sneak a lot of things in here and there -- we practice reading chapter titles in books we're reading, signs, etc, and he's picked up quite a lot that way. I can't recall that we ever did much alphabet study.
I'm going to try to do a little more actual, planned work with him and Rachel (4) this year, and she's very willing, but with him it's a challenge. We just have to get past all that initial-negative-response stuff, which with him is largely what it is. It's hard dealing with a kid whose first reaction to EVERYTHING is "I guess I'm not doing that," but if I can make myself stick it out, he usually comes around. We shall see . . .
So, no great advice, just sympathy.
Sally
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lapazfarm
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You might try having him sit at the table doing a coloring page or soothing sensorial work (like pouring rice) while you work opposite him with the sandpaper letters with the twins. He is bound to overhear (and see) and his natural curiosity (and competitive spirit when he hears all the praise the twins are getting) may win out and he will learn them despite himself.
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Theresa
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amyable
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| Posted: July 24 2008 at 1:02pm | IP Logged
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Trying to get this in quick during a quiet moment between crises here, LOL. 
I really like your idea of setting a proper "school time" by requiring interesting work like practical life - his choice, but still sets the stage, especially if you require the same of your olders (i.e. you are not unschooling)
FWIW all of my children have disliked ABC books.  One is a little behind (due to other issues I'm sure) and two are head of their age. We rely on the Leap Frog videos to teach letter/sound correspondence here and call it good. 
My active kiddos have all liked our montessori command cards (not sure if that is the name? where there is an easily decodable command on them like "sit up" "jump fast" etc that they need to read in order to do it). We play "Silent Says" with them once they get past the letter/sound stage.
I'm wondering if "waiting" isn't what caused issues with your older two - don't they both have vision issues too? I'm not just going by my dd's experience but what I've seen at work (eons ago ). We tried for ages to help my oldest to read - no waiting with her! - and it still didn't help.  She read at 8 (sort of LOL) when she was ready(ish).
I think there will be plenty of little ways to sneak in letters/phonics in real life to get him over the "hump" of thinking school is boring.
My moment of silence is over! I've got to run but I'll keep thinking about this.
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amyable
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| Posted: July 24 2008 at 1:03pm | IP Logged
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lapazfarm wrote:
| You might try having him sit at the table doing a coloring page or soothing sensorial work (like pouring rice) while you work opposite him with the sandpaper letters with the twins. He is bound to overhear (and see) and his natural curiosity (and competitive spirit when he hears all the praise the twins are getting) may win out and he will learn them despite himself. |
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Theresa was posting while I was writing. I love her idea more. 
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nissag
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| Posted: July 25 2008 at 9:49am | IP Logged
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Angela,
I think that the Montessori approach might be very wise choice for your son. It's just possible that he's having some trouble with the shapes of letters and assimilating or synthesizing them into something that is meaningful to him. Often, kids resist by saying "it's stupid" when they are having a little trouble getting it. Best not to push, but to offer some free choice alternatives (especially at such a young age) for him to explore. Montessori has some fantabulous tactile tools to help kids understand letters (among other things).
If you really want to guide him towards mastery of his alphabet, I would reduce the numbers of "other" avalable activities and lay out a wider selection of letter-recognition tools. Shapes and colors help a lot with children being able to visually acquire letters/writte language. "A" is a triangle, "O" is a circle...
Once he's comfortable there, move onto sounds that each letter represents. Try to find examples around you to point out. I've found that by musing aloud to myself softens the balky kids. 'Oh, you know what? My wedding ring looks just like an "O"!' Then you will begin to notice that he points things out to you, and then you can begin to play games with it together. Very covert - I love it.
HTH!
Blessings,
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Lara Sauer
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| Posted: July 25 2008 at 10:46am | IP Logged
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I start my kids formal education when they are closer to 6. You might find this a better solution with your son than to try and lead where he will not follow. I can't think of an instance where another year of unstructured play time has been detrimental to the overall education of a child.
Good luck.
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Angel
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| Posted: July 25 2008 at 6:51pm | IP Logged
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Well, he'll be about 5.5 in September. My older two seemed to learn the alphabet by osmosis, which is how the twins seem also to be picking it up (actually, probably from Superwhy  ). But my 5 yo still has trouble recognizing some of the letters, and phonics has not made much of a dent at this point. As Amy rightly pointed out, my older 2 *did* have vision issues which interfered with learning to read, and we've already had my 5 yo examined by a developmental optometrist. What I *think* I meant to say was that "just waiting" didn't really seem to work well for either of them; it wasn't just the vision, but -- as for my oldest, who cannot handle frustration or changes in routine and does not like to do anything that he hasn't come up with himself... not dealing with those behaviors didn't make those behaviors go away.
My 5 yo is very different from my oldest in many respects, and certainly does not react as intensely to frustration!! (Thank heaven!!!!) But, as Sally says (and Ben and my ds did get along so well!  ), it's tough dealing with a kid whose initial reaction is always (or often): "No. No, I don't want to. No, it's boring. No, I want to do *this* instead..." When he was 4 he used to wreak havoc during read alouds because *he* didn't want to be read to, and he didn't want anyone else to be read to either. He's got more social skills in his little finger than the rest of us have in our whole bodies, and I think that just makes everything worse sometimes, because he knows how to push buttons very well, KWIM?
Anyway, round about way of saying... I think my lack of sleep is affecting my brain. As soon as I finished writing that question I realized what a dip I was, because *of course* -- as you all have pointed out -- the Montessori route is probably best, as a way just to get him acclimated to doing something schoolish, and of course, he will listen in on anything I'm doing with anyone else. I think I'm just suffering a little burnout here... Montessori works for my kids (most of them anyway), but it's tough on me. I just can't seem to keep up with the environment and was thinking longingly about sitting down and reading a bunch of books. (Like we don't do that anyway!)
--Angela
Three Plus Two
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RamFam
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| Posted: July 25 2008 at 7:16pm | IP Logged
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Angel wrote:
| (actually, probably from Superwhy ). |
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We love this show! And my almost three year old, whose name just happens to be Wyatt , already knows his capital ABC's from it!
Sorry, just a side note.
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SallyT
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Angela -- It's so not-Montessori, but Ben and Rachel have both learned most of what they know about letters and phonics from Starfall.com. And then we've just gone straight to looking at words, thinking about the sounds, and sounding them out.
Rachel also likes ABC books, I think just because she likes having my attention and I could read her the phone book and she'd be happy, but Ben never has. In fact, he hates readers, too. Can't use anything that looks like a reader. So we use whatever we happen to be reading, and I'll have him read the chapter title or first sentence or something, and then he goes, "No, YOU read." But he has learned to read that way. He's not fluent in the sense of being able to read to himself yet, but neither were my olders at this age. He surprised me not long ago by pointing to a book I was holding and saying (correctly), "That says, 'Catholic Prayer Book,' doesn't it?" He had enough basic sounds, and the desire at that moment, to decode the sounds and read those words. So I think we're getting somewhere, albeit not very formally or directly.
He's done the "Don't read to me/don't read to anybody else, waa waa," routine, too. Drove me UP THE WALL. I tell you, they were instant kindred spirits, weren't they:)! He spent weeks before his birthday telling me he wasn't having a birthday or presents, then he amended that to "guessing" that people could come to his party, but that they could only sing "Happy Birthday" when he wasn't in the room . . . of course, when his birthday actually came he was over the moon, the happiest boy on the planet, but I really had to keep myself from tearing my hair out during all these tearful "Well, I guess I'm NOT having a birthday, I hate my birthday" conversations for weeks prior to the event.
I love the idea of the command cards! My kids would like that. I'm really trying to focus on the youngers more this year (and more consistently . . . I always begin with high hopes for them, and it always turns into "Just go play while I help your brother/sister."). I'm definitely going to make a "sandbox" with rice, too, so that they can play with that while I work with Joel, who's 10 and was the one who wasn't with me that day at the park. He learned so much when he was little from overhearing me with Ada, who's 4 years older, that I figure the youngers will benefit from watching me do sentence diagrams and Latin with him on a more regular and formal basis. I'll finally have a place to put up a big whiteboard, so words and numbers will be up where everyone can see them!
We'll have to compare notes as the year goes. I'll be very interested to know what works/doesn't work for you.
Sally
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sunny
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I really dont feel qualified to respond but I do feel compelled to. I generally dont allow my dc TV however we do own the Leap Frog dvds My ds 41/2 and dd 3 both know all the letters upper and lower case from them and are beginning to read (of course only when it interests them...never at my request!). I also want to add that Amy's approach really speaks to me and my situation because ds does not like to be "taught" anything! It is amazing what he is capable of learning if I am able to make it "his" idea. Maybe I could begin to set proper school times but call them something else to his liking. I dont know...just my thoughts and once again, I am not even homeschooling yet so I feel I am speaking somewhat out of turn.
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lapazfarm
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| Posted: July 28 2008 at 2:57pm | IP Logged
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sunny wrote:
| I dont know...just my thoughts and once again, I am not even homeschooling yet so I feel I am speaking somewhat out of turn. |
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You are definitely NOT speaking out of turn! We ALL have things to share here and your advice is as valuable as anyone's.
The Leap Frog videos are a favorite here, too. In fact, that's how my dd learned her letters and sounds.
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: resistant five year old
