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amyable
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OK, in hindsight, maybe this is more like a vent, but I really would love to know if I'm expecting too much or too little...
How does one teach and or just read aloud when no one can stop talking/crying long enough for me to get a word in edgewise? Or they wander and pick up other things and start reading them while you're talking?
This morning's example had me sending them to their rooms (so that I wouldn't scream at them - I'm now writing this to cool down  ): We're doing Prairie Primer and there are a few pages in it of historical background that I just wanted to get through to give them a bit of an overview. The baby was wandering on the floor being alternately whiney (loud) and getting into trouble (you know, like eating the one Polly Pocket shoe I missed ), the 3yo is alternately chattering (loudly) and lying on the baby, the 5yo keeps interrupting to show me something she's working on, the 8yo picks up another book as I'm reading aloud "just to look at the picture Mom" (yeah, right, not this child), and well, I don't remember what the 10yo did but I know she wasn't paying any attention. And this was probabaly a GOOD day for the little ones who are usually even more loud/getting in trouble/having a diaper blowout .
MUST I make everything FUN FUN FUN so that they'll listen? It was really only a few minutes tops I needed to get through, and I told them that beforehand.
Do your kids listen?? What do you do when they're not? How do you handle the multiple ages? Am I having problems because they are girls and always look like this: (that's the 4 of them chatting) LOL!
I am regretting the day I became a speech-language pathologist and learned how to turn out articulate little children. 
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ElizLeone
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I'm going to be no help over here, Amy, but perhaps my empathy will at least be beneficial in some not-so-practical way.
Yesterday's lunch provides a snapshot into my house: Over lunch, I was reading history to the five munchkins. My two oldest girls (11 & 10) were listening quietly--for the most part. Even the four-year-old was doing his best and looked almost engrossed. That's where the nice image ends. My two-year-old was screaming at the top of her lungs--not crying, just screaming for no apparent reason. An attention-getter, to be sure. Holding her didn't solve any problems. So we finally decided it was time for her nap. My seven-year-old-son-who-should-certainly-know-better had all manner of antics and interruptions going. I was reading to the kids from the kitchen side of the island. The kids were on their stools around the counter. I finally had to take the offender and have him sit at my feet on my side of the island, so that the other kids couldn't see him and he couldn't be an ongoing distraction. My hand hovered just over his head as a constant and much-needed reminder that he needed to stay in line. And I must add that my oldest, by the time the seven-year-old was spiraling downward, was laughing and egging him on. Calgon, take me away!
I have to say, my picture-perfect image of read-alouds does not reflect my reality. I try to continue nonetheless, but it can drive me batty if I let it. I do try really hard to be calm, remove the offender from the room if necessary, and assign consequences for those who are not being respectful of our reading together. But that is much easier said than done on most days.
Even if I can't provide much advice, at least you know you're not the only one, Amy!  And I do so think it's worth it to keep persevering in order to keep the read-alouds going.
P.S. I personalized Cay's Picture Perfect Childhood with self-adhesive tabs for my favorite sections and made my first PPC library run. I'm now more inundated than ever with picture books in the to-read pile. I'd better hope that I can glean some wisdom from responses to Amy's post...
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Elizabeth in Wisconsin
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missionfamily
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| Posted: May 20 2008 at 9:42am | IP Logged
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Amy--When it comes to something like that, that's really important for the older kids, would it be possible for you to let the oldest read it out loud to the ones who need to hear it while you entertain the littles somewhere else? Then they could come to you one at a time and give an oral narration so that you know they attended to the material?
Read-aloud time is so hard with little ones, I concur. Beeswax helps here. Hope you get some good input.
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dh Greg
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amyable
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| Posted: May 20 2008 at 10:03am | IP Logged
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Elizabeth - I'm very happy to know I'm not the only one.
Having an older one read is a good idea, Colleen - it wouldn't have worked with this (my 10yo is a struggling reader and this was just too over her head, while the 8yo just doesn't have a good delivery yet-too quiet, rushed, but can read anything). But it may work in the future. If I could get on the ball enough, I may even be able to pre-plan enough to have things read in the evening or on weekends. Or I could tape myself! Or I could become twins!
Sorry, just trying to laugh so I don't  LOL
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teachingmyown
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Don't try!  No, really, don't try to read it to them or lecture. Read what you want to cover first and then discuss it with them in brief. You can even do this over breakfast (when mouths are full ) or in the car (when they are restrained and maybe little ones sleeping).
I go through this at the start of every year. "Okay, guys, let's all sit down and do this read-aloud!". Then I have one nursing, one on my head (WHY!), two pushing each other and then ones I really want to listen are sitting there with a "let's get this over with" look! I can't do it. I think we get more accomplished by casual conversation and one on one (or two) time than when I try to do something structured with everyone in the room.
We have to find what works for our family at this point in time and give up our vision of what it is supposed to look like. It is not supposed to look like a mom screaming. Trust me, I have seen it, too often, I know.
God bless!
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JodieLyn
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I've been known to put kids at certain locations.. generally out of reach of each other.. you sit on that corner of the rug, you sit on the other corner, you sit on the end of the couch etc. Sometimes they just need some very strict definition of what to do, where to be.. while I'm getting started.
Once things are calm (relatively speaking ) and I've got some attention to what I'm reading I can relax some of that.
Realize that some kids can look like they're paying no attention whatsoever (my 9 yr old boy) and then be able to repeat verbatim what I just read.. I know for myself I often needs my hands busy to be able to process auditory only information.
Make sure other noise is minimal.. get out a quiet activity for those that need to be busy in order to listen.
And learn to project while you read so that you can be loud without straining your voice
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Willa
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When I'm in that situation I first decide whether they really weren't very interested, or were just feeling spring fever/hormones/whatever, or if the baby and toddler were just too distracting.
When that's decided, I try to figure out if I really need them to listen, or not. Let's say they weren't that interested and were showing it, not simply distracted by what's around them.
Well, maybe I'd decide it wasn't that important, or MAYBE I'd decide it was important either as a matter of discipline, or because I really wanted them to have that information.
If I decided it was important, I would go on from that basis. A few suggestions that occur to me:
1. Narration boot camp -- you read a paragraph then quiz random children. Not necessary to be punitive, we used to fall into a Who Wants to Be a Millionaire type format. But whatever works for your family -- I could imagine excitable children like my 5 year old getting way TOO worked up in a game show format
2. Read a bit per day, so they have the information but in bite size pieces.
3. As someone mentioned, summarize in your own words and maybe interactively -- if they like to write the older ones could take notes? Little ones color or draw?
4. As Molly mentioned, learn the information yourself and present it in bits and pieces while they are busy doing the Primer Projects. Or do the same, but reading or narrating while they are making something.
Anyway, just some thoughts. I have boys -- not as chattery as your girls, but inclined to be distractable too at times. Sometimes I am reading to my 12 year old and he stops me in the middle of a sentence and says, "When you go to the store next time could you buy some Koolaid?"  Honestly, children really pull the perfectionism out from me every day.
Oh and I have to admit I literally couldn't get through the PP background information myself. Put me right to sleep. Others love it -- maybe your kids need to get more excited about the LIttle House world before they want to listen to the context facts.
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Willa
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Cheryl
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Amy,
I can relate. Right now, the boys are often more disturbing than the girls. They remind me of Beavis and Butthead... saying things to each other and both laughing after every comment. It seems that interruptions are inevitable. Willa's Koolaid example happens frequently. I think how I handle it depends on how I feel. Yesterday I knew I was too tired to handle dd2 and school, so we took off to the park. It was awesome. We rarely do spontaneous things like that.
Other things I do...
I let them draw while we read.
I send dd5 into another room with dd2. (Although they keep coming back.)
If someone keeps talking I separate them like Jodie said.
I say, "If you don't want to read aloud right now, we'll just do math then." Then they say, "No no we'll be quiet."
I nurse dd2 (that's starting to hurt now.)
I have to go. Little people are in need. I look forward to reading what others do.
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Maryan
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Cheryl wrote:
| I say, "If you don't want to read aloud right now, we'll just do math then." Then they say, "No no we'll be quiet." |
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joann10
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One thing that I have done with my kids is to read to them when they are in there beds at bedtime. Our house is so small, I can sit in the hallway reading and everyone can hear, they are told to stay in bed, and imagine they are in the story. WARNING: Don't read anything scary! or you will have them all up all night long.
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lapazfarm
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Ok, here are some things I used to do with my 7th grade class when I had to deliver some info that might be considered "boring."
If you have time, type up a sheet ahead of time with excerpts from the readings, but with words missing. Tell them to read their sheet ahead, and then listen as you read to see if they can hear the words to fill in the blanks.If they get them all they get a prize.
Cut up a photocopy of the passage into strips, give them a roll of scotch tape and see if they can put it back in order. Let them work together. Then they have to check your original to see if they got it right.
Give one paragraph (or two, if they are eager)to each child (readers) and ask them to study it, illustrate it, and then teach the rest of the family.
Hope that helps some.
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Lisbet
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| Posted: May 21 2008 at 10:41am | IP Logged
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Cheryl wrote:
They remind me of Beavis and Butthead...
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OHMY!! I am here! We have referred to our two middle boys as this before...(but always in secret!)
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cathhomeschool
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Great suggestions from everyone!
We've employed several of the tactics mentioned. What worked best when my older ones had short attention spans (too wiggly) was to give them coloring pages while I read (Dover snowflakes -- detail required, but not much brain thought or questions on "What color is X animal or flower supposed to be?").
Once we had "littles" that we *very* distracting, we:
had the older ones read to each other
used LOTS of books on tape (you could even record yourself if you had time and necessity)
read aloud at bedtime or naptime
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: May 21 2008 at 2:53pm | IP Logged
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amyable wrote:
MUST I make everything FUN FUN FUN so that they'll listen? It was really only a few minutes tops I needed to get through, and I told them that beforehand. |
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No. It's certainly nice if the reading is engaging but you're not a circus clown and you're educating, not entertaining. That doesn't mean bore them to tears, but expecting attention to read alouds is not unreasonable. I think you've gotten some good suggestions. I really find that divide and conquer at bedtime works best. I read to the littles and nurse the baby to sleep while dh or a very big kid reads to the next age up. If they are over ten, they do a lot of reading in bed at night silently or they make good use of audible.com. Those big, cozy, everyone listening raptly on the couch things happen rarely here.
The other thing that works very well is reading aloud while they are eating. Baby is contained in a high chair and everyone else has a mouth full.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Willa
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Oh, I just thought of another idea:
Have the oldest or second-oldest child read while you keep an eye on the other ones
Making education real and "living" isn't the same thing as making it "FUN FUN", I so agree with Elizabeth.
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Willa
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Lisbet
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Elizabeth wrote:
. Those big, cozy, everyone listening raptly on the couch things happen rarely here.
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Elizabeth,
You have no idea how relieved I feel to hear you say this...seriously, I have images of you all cozy with all of your children gathered around you quietly hanging on every word... I know, I know, keep my eyes on my own work...
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The problem I sometimes face is arguments about "who gets to sit by mom on the couch" or some child irritating another child sitting beside them 
Meal time and tea time works great for read alouds.
Drawing and playdough during read alouds helps.
I sometimes have trouble dealing with constant questions and interruptions which mean that the whole storyline is lost.
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Elizabeth
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Lisbet wrote:
Elizabeth wrote:
. Those big, cozy, everyone listening raptly on the couch things happen rarely here.
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Elizabeth,
You have no idea how relieved I feel to hear you say this...seriously, I have images of you all cozy with all of your children gathered around you quietly hanging on every word... I know, I know, keep my eyes on my own work... |
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The best time for this is early in the morning--like first thing.My children love to snuggle when they first get up. And then it's just my early birds: Nicholas, Stephen and Katie. When Karoline enters the mix, it lasts only as long as she is nursing.
The other time we listen to books as a family is in the car. We refer to family trips as the "Anne of Green Gables trip" or the "On to Oregon" trip. They are really memorable experiences shared together. But I don't read--they are on audio. I can't read in the car and neither can my kids.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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missionfamily
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I love the idea of everyone snuggling on the couch for read-alouds, but it is a rare event here...sometimes with the olders when the littlies have gone to bed, sometimes when one or two kids are off at Granny's...and common listening in the car. For school time, I find being seated around the table is the only thing that works decently. Lunch time and tea time are good read-aloud times for us or if I can take the kids outside and read from the front porch rocker or while they putter around the back yard.
Another thing I find is that teacher tone brings out the worst in my kids. When I seem tobe approaching a piece of material like it is a school room lecture, they bristle, rebel, and back off. I find if I can relax a bit about it and not be so attached to "teaching" to them, but more ready to share it with them when it is more natural, they are much more compliant.
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dh Greg
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Maria B.
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It seemed to be so much easier when they were all younger and everyone could be engaged in the same book! I have struggled for years with making sure I read aloud to all my kids. At some point I just realized that it was one of those things to put in the "I Can't Do Everything" category. I try to be sure and read to the little ones at least once a day. Then one of the older kids does a read aloud later in the day to them. I read to the middle age kids at night - a nice chapter book. My big kids .... hmmmm I dreamed once that I was reading to them and we were sharing back and forth. This is a goal I have. To read something together, like a book club with my older kids. Haven't figured it out yet, but still pondering it. Books on tape are one of my best discoveries as a mom of many. And when Elizabeth introduced me to audible books, I thought I had died and gone to heaven. My mom has also recorded a few books on tape for the kids. Those are real special and favorites too.
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: How can I teach if no one can/will listen
