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MaryM
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| Posted: May 09 2008 at 12:10pm | IP Logged
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There is such a wealth of information on the 4 Real boards from all you wise and creative homeschoolers that has accumulated over the past 3 1/2 years. I frequently find myself going back to past topics/old threads for inspiration and motivation. But with volume of information can come challenges in narrowing down a search. (Like finding a particular piece of paper in the not-too-organized and overflowing stacks on my desk  )
Why use the search function?
-Sometimes you may ask a question that no one seems to jump in and answer. Maybe no one currently is familiar with that topic, but in the past it was discussed.
-You remember vaguely a discussion on a topic that didn't interest you at the time, now you'd like to find it.
-You're new to the message board and you want to see if a topic has been discussed in the past.
-You're studying a specific topic and looking for all the pertinent resources and discussions.
One of the advantages of the message board over a Yahoo group is the more specific search function. If you're not familiar with the search function, it's one of the tools in the upper right hand corner of the screen. Check it out!
With the high volume of posts I know that it can sometimes seem overwhelming when the results come back. Maybe the search didn't seem to narrow it down very much and there were too many threads found to sort through.
The purpose of this thread is to help you feel comfortable with the search engine and share tips and techniques to make searches more productive and effective. The suggestions and information will be compiled into a FAQ type post to aid members for years to come! Please share your tips and suggestions here.
So what are your tricks for getting the most out of a search?
How do you narrow down a search to get more accurate hits?
Also share your challenges if you've tried using it and been frustrated. Others may have just the suggestion to help with that.
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Mary M. in Denver
Our Domestic Church
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Paula in MN
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I'm so glad you posted this. I have used the search function, sometimes with a favorable outcome and sometimes not. I get frustrated because I know what I'm looking for, and can't always find it.
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 Paula
A Catholic Harvest
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Mackfam
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MaryM wrote:
So what are your tricks for getting the most out of a search?
How do you narrow down a search to get more accurate hits? |
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It's really a lot like googling something - it's just a matter of choosing the right words to search. If one search doesn't yield anything, I might change the wording or eliminate a word altogether. For example, practically every other post here contains the word "catholic" so no need to include that word in a search - it will only yield numerous unrelated finds.
I also always search in "All Forums." Even though I know a topic would most likely be found in Our Lady of Good Remedy for example, sometimes wonderful solutions or ideas might be found for the same topic in the prayer forum if someone happened to discuss it there. Also, last year a few of the forums changed names or relocated after a re-organization of the forums so it's best to search everywhere since I'm not really sure which topic went where. An example: a new member might be interested in the topic of Montessori Geography and since most of the folks who use Montessori post in the "Early Learning" forum you might think to search there. But, all of those type threads (I believe) were moved to "Across Time and Place." So, I don't usually limit the search in any way unless I know for a fact that I remembered a discussion taking place in a particular forum. Then I might limit the search.
I really like to search the archives here. There are so many treasures on every topic you could imagine.
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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Rachel May
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As I've gotten to know people better, I've found the "posted by" field very helpful for finding half forgotten conversations.
For example, I wanted to find the thread about the St. Baldrick's fundraiser but could only remember "St." and that it was posted by Mary Chris. It came up first in my search.
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Rachel
Thomas and Anthony (10), Maria (8), Charles (6), Cecilia (5), James (3), and Joseph (1)
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LLMom
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I too have had some trouble with the search. I know there was a topic about something but when I type it in, only a couple of things come up. Also, some threads aren't in the pages anymore but appear to be in the archives. Is that correct?
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Lisa
For veteran & former homeschool moms
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MaryM
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I've been working on basic instruction post for using the search, but wasn't finished and the boards will be closing soon. I'll post it tomorrow night when they open then hopefully more folks will adding their tips and tricks. There are definitely things that can help increase the success of searches. Tim has also been making some changes/improvements to the search engine. I'm finding it's working more effectively.
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Mary M. in Denver
Our Domestic Church
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MaryM
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I have realized that a "basics" discussion would be helpful before everyone gives the other hints and tips. During the retreat and following it Tim been working on improving the search function.  I like what I'm finding with many of the features.
When you click on the Search button (found with other buttons in top right corner), you will get a menu with the following boxes for your search criteria.
In the Search For box type the words/terms you are using in your search.
Right under that box you have a Search On choice so can decide if you want to search by "All Words", "Any Words", or "Phrase."
Searching by phrase (which will give you only those occurrences where the words are together in that order)can help narrow down the hits that come back, but if that phrase doesn't exist in the thread even though all the words might be there, it won't pull it up. I find it helpful to search both ways and compare the results. Searching "any words" is the least specific and if the words are common will probably give you way more hits than you can sort through.
The next box Search In gives you the option of searching in the "Message Body", "Topic Subject", or "Username."
Searching in the "Message Body" will give you hits if those terms are in the body of the message. Searching in the "Topic Subject" will give you hits when those terms are in the title of the thread (though I'm finding bugs in this - not working consistently like one would expect - I'll check with Tim). When threads are titled well by topic of what they are covering then this search is pretty effective - it gives more specific topic hits not just where it is mentioned. This is a point to consider when starting and naming new threads with the topic - "Would it be easy for something to find in a search?”
The next option is Search Forum You can choose to search “All Forums” which will search in the most possible threads at one time in case you don’t have an idea of where it is posted. Jennifer mentioned liking that option because some topics may seem to fit one forum but have been posted in another. A challenge with this option is that you will get a larger number of threads pulled up (depending on the search words/terms) and it may be too many to go through individually. So you can choose to search only in one of the specific threads by choosing it from the drop down menu. An advantage is fewer hits but you might have guessed the wrong forum. A way to maximize the success of the search I have found is to try both ways and compare.
The Posted by option is helpful if you remember who it was that posted something. You have to type in their username which is not necessarily the name they go by or sign in posts. Usernames are the ones you see in their profile and in the upper left corner of the individual posts. (For example would need to use Lapazfarm, not Theresa.  ) The search tool has a great option to help you find usernames. If you click on the magnifying glass next to the Posted by box you’ll get another box. If you think you know a username but aren’t sure of spelling or initials used with it you can type in part of the name (has to be the beginning though) and search it will give you a drop down menu with all members that start with those letters. For example type in “mom” and you get all members that begin with mom-something. When you search a specific word posted by the member then your results will only include threads where that member has a post which includes that word. If you don't want to search by a member leave it blank.
The final search criteria option is Sort Results By. You can choose “Last Post Time” which is the default setting and results will be in order starting with most recent thread that meets the criteria. You can also choose "Topic Start Date." This would be helpful if for example you knew it was a couple years old so it would come up in the chronological order of the starting disregarding recent posts which would throw that timing off for the search by recent post. "Subject alphabetically" is useful if you know the word you are searching is the first word in the subject. This is more limited. “Number of Views” helps you sort by how active/popular the topic was. This could be especially helpful for new members looking to see if there is an existing thread on a particular topic where a lot of discussion took place or to anyone looking for a thread where more people participated (for instance if you are looking for opinions on a curriculum.)
When ready hit the start search button.
I really hope people take some time to experiment and practice with all the features and combinations of search criteria and see what you come up with. And we're still working out some bugs, but improved search features are making it more effective.
So give the search engine a try! Play around the the criteria. See how your results differ when you use different combinations the the search criteria. Ask questions.
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Mary M. in Denver
Our Domestic Church
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MaryM
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| Posted: May 12 2008 at 4:03am | IP Logged
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LLMom wrote:
| I too have had some trouble with the search. I know there was a topic about something but when I type it in, only a couple of things come up. |
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I am having the most challenges with putting the search terms in the "Topic Subject" box myself. It works fine with some terms not others. Can you give me an example of a search that hasn't worked when you know it should bring up a thread? In that case it might be best to limit to searching body of message using the tips we will hopefully be generating.
Quote:
| Also, some threads aren't in the pages anymore but appear to be in the archives. Is that correct? |
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There is no longer an archive. All past threads are just stored chronologically in the forums (newest first, oldest last). When you are looking back for older threads in a particular forum you click on that forum. Above the Topics is a box titled "Show Topics." If you pick "all" then it will list all the threads ever posted in that thread. The default is 6 months so unless you change it that is all the will come up.
So when you are doing searches using the search tool, it will search all threads ever posted (since there is no distinction between current and archived posts as there once was).
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Mary M. in Denver
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MaryM
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Mackfam wrote:
| It's really a lot like googling something - it's just a matter of choosing the right words to search. If one search doesn't yield anything, I might change the wording or eliminate a word altogether. For example, practically every other post here contains the word "catholic" so no need to include that word in a search - it will only yield numerous unrelated finds. |
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Very good points, Jennifer. The word choice can make a huge difference and sometimes more terms is not best. One or two terms that are really specific or unique can help a lot. And with words like Catholic that are so common if it is combined with another word as phrase that can help a lot. For example "communion" is in many, many posts, but searching the phrase "communion notebook" narrows it down a lot. TIm has done an awesome job improving the search criteria tools - this is one area it really shows.
So these are some thought on tips I came up with last week while we were discussion this on retreat.
-Try to use the most unique words possible in your search to narrow down hits.
-Avoid articles (the, a, an) or short prepositions(of, by, with) unless searching as part of "phrase" because they are too common and will increase results with posts that aren't pertanent.
-Avoid small words which can be part of larger words (ex: pen which will come up with every mention of pencil, aspen, penance, penninsula, etc. or era which will give you average, several, literature, operation, temperament, therapy, Rivera, camera, aloe vera, and on on, on, and on  .)
-Consider a search in one forum at a time where it would be most likely to be placed
-Searching in topic first gives a smaller hit return, then expanding to message - but one word searches in topic seem most effective. I have problems with multiple word searches in subject topic. Going to talk to Tim about that.
-Encourage people to write their subject/topic line with search engines in mind.
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Mary M. in Denver
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cathhomeschool
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This is great, Mary!!
One thing that I do if the board's search feature is returning too many results is to use google. I go to the Advanced Search page, put in my search phrase in the appropriate box, and then I put "4real.thenetsmith.com" (no quotes) in the "Domain" box. Sometimes that helps.
Stef (stefoodie) pointed out that you can do the same from Google's main page by typing in to the search box:
"search term or terms" site:whateversiteyouresearching.com
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Angie Mc
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Here's my search engine use at Picture Books to see if our 2008 Picture Book a Day Challenge is helpful.
My first search: Easter using "all words" in the "message." Looking at just over 1 page, I was quickly able to choose the following books to check out:
Rechenka's Eggs
A Tale of Three Trees
The Donkey and the Golden Light
The Easter Story
Plus several listed in this topic.
There are promising larger topics that I can choose to look at later. Next I searched "picture book Easter", all words, in the message, at Domestic Church. This brought up 2 pages with several promising leads.
I do wish that there was an *Exact Word* search option, this way, searching for Easter wouldn't bring us everything Eastern  . Is there a way around this?
Awesome work and help here, ladies. Thanks!
Love,
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Angie Mc
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julia s.
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Angie Mc wrote:
I do wish that there was an *Exact Word* search option, this way, searching for Easter wouldn't bring us everything Eastern . Is there a way around this?
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Maybe it you put quote marks around the word, e.i. "Easter" and searched for it that way. I don't know, but some search engines need you to define the word with quote marks. I know I'm jumping in late here.
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amyable
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julia s. wrote:
Angie Mc wrote:
I do wish that there was an *Exact Word* search option, this way, searching for Easter wouldn't bring us everything Eastern . Is there a way around this?
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Maybe it you put quote marks around the word, e.i. "Easter" and searched for it that way. I don't know, but some search engines need you to define the word with quote marks. I know I'm jumping in late here.
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That sounds great but I just tried it and it didn't work. It *did* bring up all posts that had Easter in quotes though! (so it searched for the exact - "easter" - quotes and all)
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Amy
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TracyQ
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When I search online, I type in words different ways. Sometimes using more specific terms helps, and sometimes a more general topic helps more, it really depends.
But what helps me a LOT, is that when I search, I search with different words and phrases several times, and switch terms around, etc. For some reason, this gives me a more well rounded search than if I only try words or phrases one way.
An example of this is:
Let's say I'm searching for Charlotte Mason ideas for High Schoolers (something I've been TRYING to find lately online that is not easy to find let me tell ya )....but in the search engine, the different searches I may try would be:
Charlotte Mason for High School
CM for High School
Homeschooling High School the CM Way
Homeschooling High School Charlotte Mason
Homeschooling HS CM
Charlotte Mason in your Homeschool High School
High School homeschooling learning strategies
Learning Philosphies in the homeschool high school
etc.
Then I'd move to a more general search....
Charlotte Mason learning in the homeschool
Homeschooling with CM
Etc.
And also, I do try to search back pages too, even though the most common or most obvious are the first sites up on a search engine (or a website). You just never know what little gems are in the pages that are further out in the search. I've found some great resources, ideas, and help this way.
Searching takes patience, and tenacity. I absolutely LOVE doing it! I take it as a personal challenge to find something online, so it's a hobby of sorts for me.  I have tons of people email me to ask me to try to find something specific for them, because either they don't know how to find it, or don't have the patience to find it, and know I love doing it.
Hope this helps some.
Tracy
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Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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amyable
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Angie Mc wrote:
I do wish that there was an *Exact Word* search option, this way, searching for Easter wouldn't bring us everything Eastern . Is there a way around this?
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I hope this hasn't been said earlier, I'm having trouble scanning the thread...
what you CAN do is go to Google. In the seach box type exactly: site:4real.thenetsmith.com easter
I tried "easter" with and without quotes and it didn't matter, although I thought it would. It still brought up only threads with the word easter in it (not eastern, etc). I also tried with a smaller word like "era" - with and without quotes - and I didn't get all the words like therapy, general, etc that I thought I would.
So this is one way around it! :)
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Amy
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MaryM
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Thanks for mentioning this again, Amy. Janette did suggest it earlier in the thread, but I was planning on pointing it out again as well. It is a trick that does help to correct the problem of this search engine picking up all words with a partial word in it.
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Mary M. in Denver
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amyable
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Sorry! I had a feeling I wasn't the only one who knew this. I'm glad it works though, I was afraid it would cause the same problem as the current search engine.
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Amy
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JennGM
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Here's one I have difficulty with, "St. Patrick's Summer" by Marigold Hunt. This engine won't search with the apostrophe, and even in Google I can't seem to pull up all the old threads that discussed the book. I know I raved about it a few times.
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Jennifer G. Miller
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cathhomeschool
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JennGM wrote:
| Here's one I have difficulty with, "St. Patrick's Summer" by Marigold Hunt. This engine won't search with the apostrophe, |
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This is one I've been meaning to tinker with for some time...and I finally did!
If you type TWO apostrophes into the search term, it seems to work.
Searching ALL WORDS saint patrick''s summer in subject.
Searching ALL WORDS st. patrick''s summer in subject. (If you leave out the period after St, though, you won't come up with anything.)
Searching PHRASE st. patrick''s summer in message body.
Now, it won't highlight "st. patrick's summer" in the threads or the titles, but it does pull them up.
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: "Search" & Rescue - Search engine use
