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JennGM
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| Posted: March 07 2008 at 9:02am | IP Logged
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This thread Macbeth posed the question for high schoolers. I want to ask related to elementary age.
Willa wrote:
Cay Gibson wrote:
| I'm reading this over and over again but I had the opposite experience when we began hsing. Corey was entering 4th grade and I enrolled with Kolbe. |
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I haven't ever used their curriculum or lesson plans exactly as written, and sometimes I diverge quite widely. Kolbe has been fine with me designing my own courseplans as long as I sent in samples (a sort of portfolio) to validate the grades we sent in for the kids.
Their philosophy is that of subsidiarity -- that the parents are in charge of the education and the school is there to support that---
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| The Principle of Subsidiarity states that nothing should be done by a larger and more complex organization that can be done as well by a smaller and simpler organization (Pope Pius XI’s Quadragesimo Anno). Nowhere has this found greater expression than in the home schooling movement. Kolbe Academy Home School has embraced the principle of subsidiarity by offering an educational program that you implement in your home. We are not a correspondence program. With Kolbe, you are the teacher and are truly in charge of your children’s education. This is in keeping with the dictum of Pope John Paul II that “the parents have been appointed by God Himself as the first and principal educators of their children...their right is completely inalienable” (Familiaris Consortio 40). |
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I guess in that way it operates just a bit like Clonlara or NARS though obviously without the unschooly feel.
Cay, our homeschools sound quite a bit alike in many ways!
I only have one child enrolled in Kolbe at present -- my 8th grader, who is going to the local high school next year -- I thought they might need to see some type of transcript but in fact it was just a matter of walking in and filling in a bunch of papers -- no past records needed (at least not so far).
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Ah, principle of subsidiarity! I love it! One can look at the news and political situations and almost boil it down to the fact that no one applies it anymore!
Anyway, Willa, do you use Kolbe for the littles? When you say you adapt, can you replace the workbooks for something else? I'm in decision making mode. There are things I need from a curriculum provider, but I know my son is not ready to hold a pencil and fill out workbooks. It will make school a very negative experience for him!
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Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
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Willa
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| Posted: March 07 2008 at 9:56am | IP Logged
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JennGM wrote:
| Anyway, Willa, do you use Kolbe for the littles? When you say you adapt, can you replace the workbooks for something else? I'm in decision making mode. There are things I need from a curriculum provider, but I know my son is not ready to hold a pencil and fill out workbooks. It will make school a very negative experience for him! |
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I have used Kolbe with littlies in the past. You can get a look at their coursework here. Kolbe now offers daily plans as well as weekly. When I was using Kolbe with the littlies only weekly plans were offered, which actually suited me just fine.
My way of homeschooling is to take a few spine texts and use them as a guideline. I too usually work orally with the younger kids and do plenty of things other than those that are in the phonics or math workbook. Having the workbooks around serves as a checklist and fall-back for me.
One of my local friends, who has three boys and works full time, has just graduated her first son magna laude from Kolbe. She follows the course plans pretty much as written with her boys. I just don't/can't/won't manage that. So what I like about Kolbe is the Ignatian philosophy -- forming the child to "speak, write and act well" and the subsidiarity philosophy.
Kolbe has always been willing to work with me on my more non-traditional choices of method and resources. You are asked to send in a course outline -- listing the books you are planning to use -- but they don't second-guess your choices at all. Often I write down a spine text just for convenience but sometimes I have sent an attached book list. There is no accountability in the sense that you are expected to carry out the year with those particular texts -- they do ask that if you change the book you are using for a subject, that you send in a modified course outline that reflects your changes.
They ask to see samples IF I want my grading corroborated by them. But some years I haven't even sent in grades or samples or even a course outline; in that case they don't record those but just have us marked as officially enrolled for our California legality.
Basically, with Kolbe you can use the level of support that is necessary for your individual situation.
Sorry to ramble on and on; if you have any other questions please ask.
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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gina
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| Posted: March 08 2008 at 11:24am | IP Logged
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Willa,
Does Kolbe hook you up with an advisor to guide you in choosing curriculum for a college bound child?
Does the same advisor grade your papers?
Is the High school course work as scary/hard as it looks on the internet?
Do you have to finish a certain amount of lessons and tests per quarter to get a grade for that quarter?
Are you stressed trying to finish course work to get done to get the grade? (that's how I feel with our current provider)
Thanks
Gina
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Willa
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| Posted: March 08 2008 at 1:01pm | IP Logged
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Gina,
The coursework is guided by a proctor. You can ask questions and get suggestions for the coursework. Kolbe does not specifically help you choose curriculum for a child outside of their recommendations (at least as far as I know). They have a recommended set of books and sometimes alternative selections (for example, you can use Saxon or Kolbe, and you can choose between Henle Latin or New Missal Latin). Within that framework, and with advice on grade placement and that kind of thing, they are available for advice. On the website it says that the staff will help the parents modify the coursework to the individual student.
I have rarely asked for advice so I can't speak to how much support a proctor gives. As far as my experience goes they have been very helpful.
With Kolbe, you don't HAVE to use their high school curriculum in its entirety. You can substitute your own choices. If you want to get their honors or "cum laude" high school degrees, you have to follow their plans, however. (At least that is what I remember, but I couldn't find anything on the website so it must have been in the information packet). Personally, I usually choose a few courses to follow closely and with the rest I go my own way. I never went with their high school science recommendations, for instance -- very textbook-oriented except for the senior year, which is like an extended astronomy unit study.
There is a FAQ here
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Do you have to finish a certain amount of lessons and tests per quarter to get a grade for that quarter?
Are you stressed trying to finish course work to get done to get the grade? (that's how I feel with our current provider) |
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The parents give the grades. Kolbe verifies them with a sample of coursework. Here is the relevant information from the site:
Q. What is a Quarterly Report?
A quarterly report is a sampling of the student’s work sent to the advisors by the parent, along with a report card of grades. An advisor reviews the work, verifies the grades assigned, makes comments, and sends a report to the parents. Grades are verified by sending in one sample of work for each grade given.
Q. What kind of sample work and how much should I include in my quarterly report?
You may include any work the student has done in that quarter, i.e. the quarterly test, daily work, or a special project. In order for the advisor to verify the grades, there must be at least one sample of graded work per grade assigned, per quarter. (It is not necessary to send in a sample for electives such as music and physical education. A written narrative will suffice.) However, it should be noted that the more “meaty” the work, the more comments the advisor will be able to give.
I haven't felt stressed. Yes, the recommended coursework is quite demanding and tends to be too "schooly" for my comfort level. That is why I usually modify it. Just to mention one thing, they require a lot more writing in the early grades than my boys are able to do. We work a lot orally.
However, I've noticed them slowly becoming more homeschool-user-friendly throughout the years to meet the needs of the enrolled families. For example, the daily lesson plans; for another example, they have put together a very good literature program for grades 7-8 and now have just introduced a similar one for grades 4-6.
Kolbe started off as a rigorous classical day school (and the day school is still very much in action).. My husband used to donate money to them way back when my oldest wasn't even school age. So we were delighted when we found they had started a home school division. It was an answer to prayer for us -- a flexible, family-oriented classical program with minimal jumping through hoops yet with sufficient support for our preference. Though as I said before, some years we can't afford to enroll and just "wing it".
I hope that helps and is not too longwinded.
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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ALmom
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| Posted: March 25 2008 at 2:17am | IP Logged
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Kolbe has a message board now and I believe a portion of it is available for viewing. It is kolbeforum.org. You may find a lot of answers to your questions there.
I am signed up with Kolbe for my older 3 children and I have utilized the proctor services rather heavily. I tend to need to talk out my ideas. A lot changes with Curriculum providers every year so be sure to ask very specific questions as you contemplate what to do or whether or not to use a particular provider. Kolbe does not accept any 8th grade work for high school credit so know that up front. If your child has done Algebra in 8th, then they will simply meet the 4 year math requirement by doing higher levels of math in high school. Also know that the plans are not concrete - ie unless you finish the entire Wheelock Latin, you don't get your 2 years of credit. Things just don't work this way. We just finished asking about Latin as our daughter is just finishing what is on their curriculum for 1 year, but her teacher has done a lot of supplementation and is very thourough about making sure they really understand declensions,etc. and considers her as having completed 2 years of Latin. We wanted to make sure we were being honest so we asked for advice from the proctor there wondering how they'd handle it(not that it would matter in the end since we are using our own transcript, but it does help me judge if we are putting something on a transcript that is comparable)and Kolbe would not have had trouble letting us claim 2 years given the circumstances and the 1 on 1 tutor situation. I just think it is hard to realize the flexibility if all you are looking at is the printed plan.
I live in a church school state, so I do not use Kolbe transcripts and have never needed to hand things in to them. However, if I did need the transcript, I would have no problem getting a transcript from them as long as I handed in my booklist and sample work. This despite the fact that I do huge amounts of my own stuff. Just some examples - the 11 yo is using From Sea to as a spine, reading real books, building projects and interspersing this with the Holling C Holling books. We throw in some Montessorish geography and that is his history. There isn't a thing like it on Kolbe plans His science is totally textbook free - unless he chooses, and pretty self directed. He has written me papers on atomic weapons, what went wrong at Chernobyl, how to make a hydroelctric dam (including a description of how to turn a battery into a generator), his garden plans (which include how to harvest his own seeds, soil analysis and determination of the only spot in our yard with sufficient light, etc.), he has done electrolysis (all on his own using scrounged parts), and a number of other self directed research. He is keeping a line graph and bar chart of the flea population and the high and low temperature. He has begun labeling and identifying various kinds of rocks with a minor introduction into the basics by the person who comes to help the special needs child. He is always pouring over the periodic table, knows most of the elements, what all those numbers mean, etc., etc. , what is most reactive, all that stuff I forgot long ago. I didn't see the point in restricting this boy to a 5th or 6th grade text he read all in one day last year over the summer for the fun of it. He also did as much of the Prentice Hall Physical Science text as he could do without having Algebra - and is currently motivated to get as far as possible in math to try and tackle this. I'm obviously not on Kolbe's plan for history or science. We use their vocabulary book, but am using Hillside for his literature as he has basic trouble even recalling or retelling a story - though he can tell you everything you ever wanted to know and then some about anything scientific. He is very much improved, but truth be told, we are only even using Kolbe texts for vocabulary and religion. And in these, I use the texts my way interspersed with a lot of living and reading. Still Kolbe would not flinch an eye if I sent in 4 different science papers - 1 for each quarter. I guess if we wanted to give him a literature grade, we'd send in the reading logs. He does CHC grammar so that would be easy to find sample work. Anyways, you get the idea. Every one of my children is something like this in how we do school. It is just that their strong and weak subjects are different because the passion is different.
They will note on your high school transcript/diploma whether it was Summa Cum Lauda (basically no real deviation from the plans and very specific requirements for samples), Magna Cum Lauda (following certain subject matter basically college prep. (ie 3 years of foreign language, etc. )substitutions and modifications of your own allowing for huge flexibility. There are also one or two other diploma/transcript options.
However, I have been told that if you make huge modifications, they are going to begin to ammend the transcript to make note of this. For example, I weave Kolbe paper topics and assignments in Lit and History with RC History. They would ammend a booklist/ text list to your files or something to that effect and note on your transcript that you deviated from the Kolbe recommended texts/plans in this subject. You may also earn honors designation on the transcript if you do a particular subject in its entirety as on their plans for honors.
They are adding significant numbers of options for math and science now.
You may sign up for grading services but this is not generally a part of belonging to Kolbe but something extra you pay for. We have used it some with my oldest and found it a great service for us. I mostly wanted someone other than me reviewing their papers. I did not hand in nearly as many papers as I paid for. However, the few papers that were critiqued, were thouroughly critiqued and we were very, very pleased.
Some of this works only so well as you communicate your needs. I was very detailed in what I wanted from them - asking that they be very tough as they were working with a very gifted writer and someone I knew loved to write. (My oldest, when she handed in papers, I told them she needed to be gently shown what was needed as she could become easily intimidated in her early attempts at writing). Both my daughter and I felt that the feedback of our particular proctor really did help a lot. Teaching writing is not my area. Personally, I'm a math and history person and not a very good editor and definitley not one to guide literature or writing with any great confidence.
I'm also not a sold Classical Ed person so we do some  of our own things with the curriculum. Kolbe's curriculum is very, very cleverly put together and one suggestion I had was for them to include information about a specific skills being focused on at different points (for those of us that do a lot of modifying and jumping all across grade levels). It would give me a bigger picture. I have actually found that with my younger, who is using CHC loosely, I have substituted a number of Kolbe workbooks, particularly the Ignatius Speaks and Writes. I am not one who stresses in the younger grades, so my 8 yo is working in CHC 2nd grade finishing up some of Kolbe's first grade texts.
They have a literature program for grade school and middle school now as well. I rarely use this as my boys are not particularly strong in literature or writing and we are doing quite a bit of work on basics here - but I use some of it from time to time as reading/discussion starters. I use a lot of Hillside guides for actual writing and literature.
I signed up several of my children simply because I wanted another source of ideas of things I might try. I wanted to be able to ask my proctor for ideas about making life sane in a house where I am teaching 6 (one highschooler, one special needs, one pre-reader, a 1st/2nd grader and 11 yo and 13 yo) but children whose abilities range all over the planet. I tend to be a bit of an emotional roller coaster, so my proctor is my sounding board and I often need to brainstorm ideas on how to get a child over a hump or how to manage something with dynamics of working with so many or the particular challenges and joys of one passion children. My 11 yo is working way above grade level as you judge those things, in science, esp. chemistry and other such but is struggling with literature and writing and needed to be forced to look at history. They really helped me settle on a "no need to assign science" but have him write about his discoveries. Whether a proctor has ideas for outside their curriculum or not depends somewhat on the relationship you have built with them and the particular person with whom you are discussing your questions. I had a very long and productive e-mail conversation with their math and science advisor. She did point me to a couple of possible resources, but mostly knew just how to ask the "what about ..." questions that helped me discover my own solutions. I will say this illustrates how typical providers never fit us because my children each have their passion where they do awesome and amazing things and then have a subject or two that take us quite some time before we even sound reasonably informed. We also dealt with vision issues in all but the 5 yo so some things had to be delayed until eye skills were there.
As a part of the idea of subsidiarity, they will call you to task if they ever feel you are not pulling your own weight. We must do our part, they are there to assist us - not do our work for us. However, they do understand that life means that you need support and teaching 6 children, some with special needs, sometimes I just do not have time to dig into everything. Working with them, communicating clearly, etc. really do help. I hope to be able to give back to them in ways as more of my children are grown, but right now, I don't have tons of free time - except when I should be in bed  .
Oops, I'm afraid I've become carried away again. Hope this helps. If you need more clarification on my personal experience being signed up with Kolbe, please feel free to ask or PM.
Janet
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Topic: Further Questions about Kolbe
