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folklaur
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| Posted: Oct 25 2007 at 6:29pm | IP Logged
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I didn't want to hijack the other thread...but during it ck said this:
CKwasniewski wrote:
When she is ready, help her to work and play independently. She will find her own identity apart from a social scene. Make sure she has plenty of options for play and "work", and let her choose.
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And that got me thinking....
How much is school influence, how much is homeschool, how much is personality?
My oldest dd18, went to school until half-way through 4th grade. Now, this is a smart kid, but one who still even now is hesitant to speak up unless she is sure she has the "right" answer. She always excelled in school, and knew the "right" answers, and so did well (but she still asked to be homeschooled for almost a year before her and dh convinced me to do it.) Even now, she isn't exactly as independent as I thought she would be at the age of 18.
But the younger ones, who spent little to no time in a school setting - are MUCH more independent. They are question-askers. Ds9 will hang back a little, but he does have Asperger's, and so has to get his social footing in ANY situation. But dd5? She jumps right in, and figures stuff out as she goes. She likes me there in the background, but she will figure it out and do it herself, thank-you-very-much 
I think sometimes as homeschoolers, we get labeled as being "over protective" (like that's a bad thing?) or that our kids are TOO dependent on Mom. But in my own crew, the most dependant on me (in some aspects) is the one who spent the most time in school.
I am not sure there is a question here, just an observation, and I would love to hear other thoughts on this....
~Laura in AZ
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Barbara C.
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| Posted: Oct 25 2007 at 7:04pm | IP Logged
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School does set up an aura of dependence. Children are given very few choices and freedoms. They are told when they are allowed to do anything from eat, use the bathroom, or rest. They are not allowed any time to be on their own. And usually there is only one "right" way to do things. Then there is the peer dependence, which is a whole other story.
That's why so many schooled kids have a hard time when they switch to homeschool. They are so used to having so many of their decisions made for them; they literally do not know what to do. There are used to being told what they may or may not do almost every minute for six hours every day.
Now, I do want to say that I do not believe that homeschooling always equals a more independent child. I think that kind of depends on how authoritarian or how scared of the world the parents are. For instance, there are parents who want to micro-manage and criticize everything their child does. Then you have parents who are so scared of anything that could possibly happen that they do not encourage the child to be independent but unconsciously pass on their paranoia, making the child more dependent. I would say these would be the exception rather than the rule. I think the more dangerous are the ones who pamper their child's every whim to the point where they learn that they don't have to work to get what they want. This is more common in the world in general.
There's my 2 cents.
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Barbara
Mom to "spirited" dd(9), "spunky" dd (6), "sincere" dd (3), "sweet" dd (2), and baby girl #5 born 8/1/12!!
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ozlouise
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| Posted: Oct 25 2007 at 7:12pm | IP Logged
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I also find that my son who has never been to school can play for longer on one thing (hasn't had the constant interruptions from school) and can always find something to do. I started noticing the change between him and his peers as they started to go to school. I had read about this in hs books etc but never thought I would see it so clearly.
I always joke that `my kids can amuse themselves all day - not necessarily doing things I want them too - but they can amuse themselves'.
He isn't very independent with school work yet - but he is young.
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Mary G
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| Posted: Oct 25 2007 at 8:01pm | IP Logged
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Laura,
I agree! My 2 oldest (now 18 and 16) have been in "real" school and homeschooled too. They much prefer the "social life" of "real", like to be told what to do and when to do it (well, not all the time but ykwim), study for tests and forget it the next day, are not self-motivated but need the rewards/acknowledgement of others.
My littles (8, 7 and almost 5) are SO DIFFERENT. They've always been taught at home. They prefer being in "sure situations" with folks they know but also like trying new things, love to be self-directed and prefer to choose what they'll study or how they'll study, and much more creative and laid back.
I'm with ozlouise ... my kids too can amuse themselves ALL DAY and not necessarily what I'd planned but they KNOW and own so much more than their older siblings at the same age.
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MaryG
3 boys (22, 12, 8)2 girls (20, 11)
my website that combines my schooling, hand-knits work, writing and everything else in one spot!
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Chari
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| Posted: Oct 25 2007 at 9:22pm | IP Logged
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very interesting thoughts........I have six independent children (out of six  )
Thanks for the insights, Laura........and CK
ETA: A funny story~~ when I picked up my oldest (who has never been to school) from her first college class at age 16........she gets in the car and sighs, and says, "Why do I feel like I just lost my independence?" 
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Chari...Take Up & Read
Dh Marty 27yrs...3 lovely maidens: Anne 24, Sarah 20 & Maddelyn 17 and 3 chivalrous sons: Matthew 22, Garrett 16 & Malachy 11
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TracyQ
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| Posted: Nov 07 2007 at 3:05pm | IP Logged
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Chari wrote:
ETA: A funny story~~ when I picked up my oldest (who has never been to school) from her first college class at age 16........she gets in the car and sighs, and says, "Why do I feel like I just lost my independence?" |
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That's funny!!!! I wonder if that'll be the same with my son or not next year????
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Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
 homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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TracyQ
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| Posted: Nov 07 2007 at 3:23pm | IP Logged
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I think a lot of it has to do with their educational environment, and only part of it has to do with their personality.
I agree, many people think homeschooled kids are smothered and coddled, and can't think for themselves, when most times, I've seen the opposite to be true.
I just had a situation yesterday when signing our oldest (12th grade) up to take the GED through the continuing ed program. (We're doing this because he's chosen to go to the 2 year community college for 2 years then to switch to the 4 year college in order to save money). The lady who had been nice to me on the phone the first time I spoke to her, suddenly wasn't yesterday. I don't know if she was having a bad day or what.
The application requires parental consent, and a signature, so I wasn't sure whether or not I was supposed to fill it out or our son was. I didn't see anything about it, or didn't think it really mattered, so when I called to ask a question or two before bringing in the application, she replied with something to the affect of, *we really like for them to fill out the application, they should be able to fill out an application by this time*. Can we say, ANTI-Homeschooler?  Ugh!
I replied very nicely and kindly and said, *When my son walked into his place of employment knowing nobody, and asked for a job, he filled out his application all by himself just fine, got the job, and has been working all by himself there since April!
I said that because it wasn't clear on the application, and because I'm still his facilitator of his education, and his parent, and had to sign the application, that I wasn't sure who needed to fill it out, but that I'd reprint it, and have him fill it out. My writing is better, and it said to print clearly, and I just thought I was supposed to do it.
She replied, *Well, there will be an essay on the exam, and he'll have to be able to write legibly,* I replied, *Well, when he took his SAT twice, he had to write an essay in 25 minutes, and he wrote it just fine, and got a wonderful grade on it, so I'm sure he'll have no problem, but thank you for being concerned.*
When we went in to take in the paperwork, I took him with me, and she didn't look at me very much, and spoke directly to him, as if I wasn't there. She said you'll get a letter in the mail and there will be a map on it where to go (who does she think is going to be DRIVING him to the test and will need the map?) )
I just get so sick of people who think our kids aren't independent, and can't think for themselves, and that the only reason we homeschooled them is because we wanted to lock them up at home, and not allow them to ever go out! Ugh. I did make her look silly, but in a very nice way.
It was a good learning opportunity for my son to see how the prejudices and bias against homeschoolers will be with us forever, and that we just have to remain the people God wants us to be and that's charitable, kind, and to be a good example even in the midst of ignorant people who aren't interested in the facts and truth of the situation. We had a good conversation about it.
This same son is EXTREMELY shy, but works with a bunch of men and young men, and is making friends and doing well. He's been on many baseball and flag football teams playing with many other young men, and quietly making friends. He's gone to take his SAT twice and not had any meltdown or problems. He's always respectful to others, especially adults he meets, and even though he's painfully shy, he's able to converse intelligently, and well with people of all ages without mommy there. I'm not worried one bit about him, and I'm convinced that he'll do just fine in college, because he's had time to gradually learn all of the social skills he'll need in a way that's been best for his personality, and has become a very indpendent young man, not in spite of being homeschooled, but BECAUSE of it!
We have over 50 nieces and nephews in our huge extended family, and many of them have been hand held throughout their schooling, including high school, and some have found the transition to higher education and adulthood much more difficult so far. They are very stressed, and think many things are very difficult. My kids just look at them, and shrug their shoulders because these are the same things that are no big deal to them! And my kids aren't stressed, they're blessed! They have the same difficult transition to young adulthood that their cousins do, as it's a very difficult time for ANYone that age. But I do think they find that being surrounded by a loving family every day, and being able to lean on mom and dad for loving, gentle, gradual guidance in this transition time is a very good thing! It's helped them to be able to become more independent gradually and in their own way and time, much like all of our learning has been throughout this journey! 
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Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: School, Homeschool, and Independence
