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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: June 18 2011 at 8:45am | IP Logged
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I know some people here do the Dave Ramsey envelope system or something similar. We did it for some time but got out of the habit once we were debt free (except for the mortgage).
We're in a new house, 4.5 months now, and we know we need t o get back on the wagon. We'll need a new vehicle in the next couple of years and likely a new furnace as well. Plus, this economy really means we want the cushion of a strong emergency fund more than ever.
The system itself is straight forward, but I have heard some variations on it that are different . For instance, I order most things online, so a cash only envelope system isn't rally convenient. However, I'm not sure that a ledger only system would work--but maybe some variation with separate little books instead of envelopes? Gift cards to specific stores (like Amazon) for some. A combination of gift cards and cash? Monopoly money. The psychology of spending cash vs. credit is strong, and the tangibility helps. Have others found a similar self-limiting system?
Where do you keep your envelopes? Not trying to gain specific info so I can burgle your home!!! I just mean that the logistics of where and how to keep cash accessible to two people who may be using the same budget at different times gets tricky.
Anyway, I thought that some brainstorming and sharing on how different families in similar situations (i.e. Homeschooling) logistically follow a strict budget would be helpful and encouraging.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Mackfam
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| Posted: June 18 2011 at 9:29am | IP Logged
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We apply many of Dave Ramsey's recommendations, but with variations because like you mentioned, we do most of our purchasing online.
Here's how we work this:
** My husband and I work out a budget on paper, just as recommended. We spend money on paper first, setting aside money for various things we know are coming up (like we saved over a period of a couple of months for a new printer for me so that I'd have money in a *virtual* envelope when it was time to make the purchase.)
** My husband LOVES.LOVES.LOVES Excel and Quicken and works with those two programs exclusively to set up *virtual envelopes* for us in which he divides up the amount of money we have in our checking account. In Quicken, he creates new accounts (again, they are virtual, not real, but he names them for what we're saving for....like *truck*, *printer*, *weekly allowances*. He creates the budget-on-paper in Excel. (I am not a HUGE fan of Excel, I mean...it's ok...but I'm not in love or anything.  My mom and dad do the same thing we do, but Mom uses a really neat program to set up her virtual envelopes for her and she swears by it - Snowmint Creative. They have a neat app for the iphone, too.
** I'm given a set $$ amount as a weekly allowance and Rob and I decide together what things must come out of that allowance - groceries, paint, clothes, shoes, etc. I use a debit card for purchases, and I keep up with my receipts in an envelope in my purse, and have a pretty good idea how much I spend on a weekly basis. Rob has a little box in his *drawer* where all his stuff collects, and I drop my receipts in the box and he enters them in the books on the computer. Between the two of us, we **usually** have a good idea of the amount spent, and what's left.
** Online purchases - we make probably 80% of these through Amazon because of our Prime account and because I can buy homeschool needs there. I get a monthly amount allotted for homeschool at the beginning of the month, I purchase myself an egift card to Amazon in the amount we decided on. I email the gift card to myself, apply it to my account, and that's how I keep up with my Amazon purchases. When the gift card money is gone, my budget is gone, and spending for that month is over. Sometimes I have extra to roll over to the next month...but not usually!  This helps us in accounting too...Amazon charges for each individual purchase and that can be a book-keeping NIGHTMARE...so having one gift card receipt to enter in the books each month is MUCH EASIER.
** Other online purchases are either bigger purchases and these are discussed and saved for....or they come out of my household allowance because they're clothes or shoes or something like that. If the purchase comes out of my weekly allowance, I email receipts to my husband and he enters it into the books and we keep up with our spending that way.
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Hope this helps. It IS different when you make all of your purchases using a debit card, or purchasing online, but I do think that this type of budgeting can be brainstormed to find an intuitive-for-you-guys system that works to keep you accountable to each other. For me, I NEED to see that monthly budget my husband works out because I have significant input in what we spend money on and save for and knowing what's going on behind the scenes helps me stay disciplined on the front lines so-to-speak.
Good luck!
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: June 18 2011 at 10:49am | IP Logged
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I don't use Dave Ramsey's system as far as I know.
But I use Quicken (any computer financial program would work).. And I set future transactions (umm hold on and I'll explain).. so that I can see where money needs to go.
So for instance.. I a "transaction" that says "save for bills" and that's the amount I need from each paycheck to pay bills like phone, electricity, mortgage etc. I set it for the date of the paycheck that I will take that money from... then when I pay the bills and they go into the account with the amounts of the money.. I take off that transaction because it's been paid.
I set the kids money aside in this manner.. they have virtual accounts. The actual money stays in my checking account so that I can write a check or buy online for them. But I keep the money seperate so that I don't see it as available.. it's in their account.. and when they had me say $10 cash of birthday money.. I put it in their account and it comes out of my checking account (because I have the cash in my pocket now).
But for me it works really well because I have a very hard time keeping track of anything loose.. papers etc. So having it all on the computer makes it work way better than cash in hand in multiple envelopes.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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Stacy Y
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| Posted: June 18 2011 at 11:54am | IP Logged
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Jenn, the amazon gift card idea is gold! All the amazon transactions really are an accounting nightmere, I never thought of that. Thanks so much!
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Mom to 4 boys, 2 girls, and baby due this fall
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Angel
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| Posted: June 18 2011 at 6:56pm | IP Logged
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I'm glad you posted this question, Lindsay, because we are sort of in the same boat... except that we have never been disciplined enough to use an envelope system. My dh's goal is to pay off our new house before everybody starts going to college. So we both need to figure out how to be more organized.
I have been keeping track of my grocery spending (and saving) using a free tool called The Savings Tracker. I really like this spreadsheet even though I am not an "extreme" couponer because I can see how well I am doing in trying to keep the grocery and personal/paper product budget in check. I haven't had the guts to try using cash instead of a debit card at the grocery store yet, mainly because I am terrified that I will wipe out the calculator total halfway through and have no idea what everything costs. But the savings tracker has helped me stay pretty well on track, as long as I come home and input my receipts in the next day or so after a grocery trip.
I just downloaded the free 7 day trial of You Need a Budget. This software is mentioned in Large Family Logistics. I have to say that I find Quicken really annoying, but the YNAB software seems (in this trial anyway) to be a lot more intuitive and easy to use for me. Also, I think it is pretty much based on Dave Ramsay's principles, as it comes preloaded with a category for Charity (Tithing). My dh and I have talked about it and I think we're going to buy it and start using it.
Jen, the amazon gift card idea is genius. However, I am not sure I should have told my dh about it, because I think this will severely impact my amazon habit!
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Angela
Mom to 9, 7 boys and 2 girls
Three Plus Two
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stefoodie
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| Posted: June 18 2011 at 7:51pm | IP Logged
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We use Dave Ramsey's system with our own modifications.
Our budget is on a spreadsheet that we adjust from time to time as needed.
I gave my hubby a list of my projected expenses per month. So at the beginning of every month I get
money for groceries
toiletries
household expenses (light bulbs, batteries, minor repairs)
clothing
gifts
education
my personal allowance
I used to use a credit card for most purchases and then gave him the cash for anything I spent, but it was too easy (for me) to lose track of things.
So now I spend cash 99% of the time. Whenever I order something online I immediately take the cash out of the envelopes and set it aside for him to deposit into the bank so when the credit card bill comes the money is there waiting. I have an Amazon credit card that I use for purchases and I also have Amazon Prime so we save a lot on shipping.
I have the grocery money for the week in my wallet.
The rest is in the envelope thingie that came with the Dave Ramsey package.
I take both with me when I go shopping, that way if I want to make a stop somewhere to buy a gift I get it out of the gift envelope instead of paying with the grocery money and then moving money later (tried that method and didn't work).
At the end of the month I check to see how much money is left over for each category. If there's a lot I set aside maybe 1/3 or 1/2 of the leftover stuff for things that hubby is saving for but that I'd like to help out on. Right now it's a car as his is 20+ years old and starting to rust in spots.
Hubby also has "virtual envelopes" through the bank so he knows where all the money is at any given time. But that's for the bigger stuff like college tuition. We tried using a virtual system a while back for everything else but it was just so tedious trying to keep track of spending and categorizing after the fact, transferring money from virtual envelope to virtual envelope, etc.
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stef
mom to five
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: June 12 2012 at 9:00am | IP Logged
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Bumping this thread.
How are those using new systems working?
I'm so embarrassed to admit that I'm pretty much in the same place I was last year. 
I bought the envelope software, but we've not managed to use it. Sigh.
I don't think it is the software, we've just been super busy with tons of projects. Projects suck money quickly, and they absorb so much of dh's time, he neglects the finances. And I'm left not having a CLUE where we are and what I can do to save, etc...
So, I think we are going to try having me in charge of finances. He still set up the budget in Excel (we rivisited that and made some adjustments, like, why dh thought $10 a month made sense for haircuts for 1 man and 4 boys (3 who have hair  ), I have no idea
[Sidenote: I have clippers, and I have done the boys hair in between professional cuts, but dh and my oldest have AMAZING cowlicks. Seriously, even the barber thinks they are impressive, so I'd rather just leave them to professionals.  ]
Anyway, dh manages large budgets and accounts skillfully, prudently, and frugally for work (he is in charge of a few different departments, including general operations), but for some reason, the nitty-gritty of home finances have alluded him, partly because doing the finances at home feels secondary to completing x project during those few hours he has on evenings and weekends, and he procrastinates doing it a lot, even though he knows it is *actually* a key factor to navigating all our projects and plans. I think it will be a relief for him, and I will be able to know better what we can and can't afford. I'll be like his financial secretary.
In these new duties, I REALLY want to implement more of this (all ideas my husband likes, but can obviously put off implementing).
So, like I said, I bought the envelope system software that Jen's mother likes. I like it, too. And it is mobile and can go on dh's phone (I don't have a smart phone), and frankly, he does the majority of our spending outside the house, including groceries. I run the occasional errand or shopping trip during busy weeks or when he's at home (and then, I often take his phone) or for a specific need, but most of my purchasing is online.
But, we also have Quicken. Quicken has a lot of great features, and I think that dh will still be using it to manage and pay our fixed expenses. It is all those variable household expenses I really need to manage.
Part of me thinks that all the variable expenses could be tracked individually in the envelope software and then on Quicken as "Household" or something (and if there are envelopes for Savings and such, tracking savings more generally in Quicken). Or do you think it would be worthwhile to do double entries? I'm trying to wrap my head around utilizing the best of both systems, and an "envelope" system makes the most intuitive sense for me.
Sorry this is long and rambly, but the disorder in this area has been stressing me for a while now, it is just SO foundational. We worked hard to get debt free and build up our savings, and we're seeing that start to unravel a bit, and I just know we need to nip it in the bud. I resisted doing this for a while because I didn't want to "take the reigns" from dh, but I'm starting to see it isn't really that at all, it is relieving a burden, and even CEOs have an accounting staff  He mentioned my taking over it first, btw, and it has been me warming up to the idea.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Servant2theKing
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| Posted: June 12 2012 at 10:31am | IP Logged
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We use Quicken as our version of a virtual envelope system, posting amounts for given categories in advance. We post projected amounts for the date funds will be available, then subtract expenses as we spend any amount from that category. We actually project expenses for the entire year on Quicken (older versions of the program can do tricky things, such as skipping to later or earlier dates, so it's best to use a newer version of Quicken for this purpose).
Whenever we use funds from a specific category on Quicken we post the expense and subtract from the amount allowed for that category for the given time frame ~ i.e. Dh is paid weekly and has a weekly gas allowance ~ when he purchases gas he subtracts the amount from the posted amount for that category, while posting the actual expense at the same time. We also move the remaining amount for a given category to a later date as we subtract from it, so the available amount always remains visible and current.
We also track our yearly budget and projected expenses on Excel, but we seldom refer to our Excel budget since we started projecting and tracking expenses on Quicken in this manner. It mainly serves as a fast all-in-one reference tool for setting up our yearly Quicken amounts. (I print up a single page version of the Excel budget when I set up the yearly projected version in Quicken ~ usually 2-3 months before the New Year).
Whenever we plug in projected expenses for the year on Quicken we use the FIND tool to make sure we've consistently posted individual categories or expenses for every week or month, as they apply.
An antique receipt spindle on top of our command center corrals gas, grocery or local purchase receipts waiting to be posted to Quicken ~ once we've posted them we place recorded receipts in a drawer specified for that purpose. Binder clips, clipboards or file folders could work just as well. We keep a cheat sheet with account numbers, usernames and password variations for bills we pay online and have the same information taped to individual compartments in an accordion file for paid bill receipts. Unpaid bills are attached by binder clip to a cup hook inside a command center cabinet door.
Another helpful tip ~ we post appointments and important tasks on Quicken. Since we post in Quicken almost daily we seldom refer to a print calendar or planner. Whenever appointments or tasks are set up we immediately post them in Quicken. (Using CAPS for appointments and scheduled tasks helps distinguish those items from budget categories and expenses.)
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All for Christ, our Saviour and King, servant
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Amber-v
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| Posted: June 12 2012 at 10:49am | IP Logged
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We have used YNAB for several years now and I highly recommend it. We used Quicken before that and found that the budget didn't really end up reflecting reality. The way that YNAB handles the budget makes it more flexible and realistic for us - not just wishful thinking! I credit YNAB with helping us get out of debt and helping us to be much more mindful about our spending and saving. It has been an extremely effective tool for us.
Amber
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Amber
Mom to dd (born 2002), ds (2005), ds (2008), ds (2011), dd (11/2013)
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mamaslearning
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| Posted: June 12 2012 at 11:02am | IP Logged
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I do our budgeting in Excel with a weekly budget and all expenses are broken down into weekly amounts. I budget to "0". I use MSMoney (the free version still available) and have my budget lines entered in the check register with future dates. I accumulate money in each category as we get paid, and any purchases are just subtracted out of the balances. MSMoney tracks categories if you want, but most of our purchases are on our Credit Card and our credit union gives us a yearly statement with purchases categorized.
Our budget doesn't change since his pay is consistent.
I've tried YNAB and I love the concept, but couldn't retrain my years and years of using MSMoney brain to do it a different way. (YNAB is a different budgeting concept).
I love using gift cards for budgeting purposes like Jen mentioned. I do this for my MNO budget. I purchase a Panera card at our local grocery store and get double fuel points, plus it limits my spending.
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Lara
DD 11, DS 8, DS 6, DS 4
St. Francis de Sales Homeschool
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mylonite
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| Posted: June 12 2012 at 11:13am | IP Logged
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Here's our system:
-- We budget everything down on paper. We were using just a spiral notebook, but we've had to upgrade to a ledger-type notebook in order to keep track of what's going out. We budget 2-4 weeks at a time. DH and I did the budget for the entire month of June so we could see where we're sitting (just put a mortgage in the budget, whooooo!).
-- We have specific amounts for food, $150 for the two-week pay period. We've been adjusting that as needed. So tonight, DH and I will hit the grocery store, spend however much we need for two weeks worth of food (after menu planning). The amount left in the "food budget" is recorded in the ledger. When we run out of milk/cheese/sanity, we know we have X left and can go to Costco or Jimmy John's as the money permits.
-- I always look at my planner and figure out appointments, co-pays, medicine refills, etc and put those in the ledger, too. They're on their own line, ie "Lovenox shots: $15
Neurontin: $15
Zoloft: $8
ABX: $4"
as opposed to just "Medications: $42". We need it all broken out like that.
-- We don't use cash unless we need to, and everything is tracked via debit card. DH has a smartphone so he can add the exact total needed for groceries/milk/etc at the check-out.
-- We have a special account where we put online money - sometimes sellers take a few days to process the payment. Or if we (God forbid) get our number stolen, only $20 or so dollars is lost. The gas station kept really messing us up because they would take almost a week to process debit cards, so we now buy a prepaid gas card and use that to fill up the cars. Apparently they process gift card payments right away! And we don't go over the gas budget that way!
It's not perfect and I really would love SOMETHING for the computer to track all this for us, but it's working well. Our biggest hurdle to get over is to update the ledger IMMEDIATELY with amounts left for things like food, blow money, etc.
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~ Kim
Mama to DD1 (6), DS (5), DD2 (2), DD3 (1), DS2 (08/16)
Mama also to four in Heaven
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CrunchyMom
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| Posted: June 12 2012 at 3:43pm | IP Logged
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Thanks, ladies. It does help to see how others use these tools.
I do think I need a two`stage receipt system like you describe, Servant. Though, I hope dh will become diligent in recording expenses in his phone so that I won't have to rely on receipts and he can just synch his phone each evening.
I set up the Snowmint Budget for our discretionary expenses in spite of being a bit confused at first. And I figured out what we needed to do to take a few baby steps back so we can have Dave Ramsey's Baby Step #3 finished in the next year. It is discouraging to have to admit we are that far behind from where we were before our move, but I guess it took us about a year to end up where we are, so it makes sense it will take us about a year to get back!
You Need a Budget looks interesting, but since we already have two budgeting software programs, I don't think I can justify another!
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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ctrivette
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| Posted: June 12 2012 at 3:43pm | IP Logged
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I've been using Mint.com, I have the app on my phone and itouch....there is really no reason for me not to keep up with it. I still need work with budgeting but it tracks everything and that is a great start!
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DianaC
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| Posted: June 12 2012 at 6:45pm | IP Logged
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We keep ours as simple as possible.
I found this template free online and love it. (This site also has other helpful templates including annual budget templates that I think are helpful).
We budget everything for the month on this sheet. We first deposit any surplus into a savings account which is not touched. Much of our outgoing money is kept in the checkbook to pay bills like the mortgage, offering, power, water, phone, cable, etc. The rest of the outgoing money is put in cash in envelopes for things like groceries, household needs, haircuts, clothing and spending money.
If there are purchases that we can't make in cash and need to use the debit card, we leave that amount in the checking account too.
The template has been very helpful in keeping us up to date on periodic bills like property taxes, insurance, gutter cleaning, dryer vent cleaning, etc. I just pull up the current month's sheet from last year and tweak the utility amounts and have a built-in reminder to make appointments for the extras that are due.
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4Real Forums : Planning and Ordering our Days
Topic: Finances--Envelope System, etc...
