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cornomama4
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| Posted: June 24 2008 at 8:03pm | IP Logged
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I have been thinking about how to phrase this post all day. Part of me thinks I should just let it be and not say anything, but I just can't NOT say what I'm going to say. Please believe that what I'm about to write is only done in the most sincere interest in the well-being of you wonderful ladies, and is in no way meant to judge, examine or criticize anyone's choices about homeschool topics or literature.
I read Theresa's blog about the Harry Potter Potion class and so much sounded cool and interesting and scientific, but the part about knowing the magical properties of the different herbs gave me pause. Then I looked at the Hogwart's Correspondance School link and was even more uneasy. Why was this? I can only say it plain and simple...spells, charms and potions are dabbling with the occult. I know HP is all suppossed to be make believe and fun, and it's such a great story, but the magical part of it is opening the door to the world of darker forces.
Before I go on, let me say again that this is an FYI post more than anything, and not meant to criticize or judge what someone is exposing their kids to. Many Harry Potter fans have no idea how similar the imaginary world of HP is to the very real Wicca and Witchcraft culture. How do I know? Been there, done that.
I was a practicing Wiccan back in the mid-90's (I became Christian in 2002 and became Catholic in 2003). It all started out so innocently. Someone in the school orchestra at college was getting out of a concert on halloween "for religious reasons" and it turned out she and like 10 other people in the school of music were wiccan. I really fell into it big time, and I spent many hours learning spells and magical properties of herbs and colors and moon phases...blah,blah. I wrote things in Runes and did many spells...never negative to hurt anyone, just to try to get things to happen that I wanted to happen.
I always felt a little weird after I'd do these...not at peace at all. Lots of things happened both good and bad, but I think I opened the door a little too far a couple times. What all seemed like a little fun and cool and a real distraction from my problems at school (it never felt like religion to me) was really putting me in serious danger of inviting satan in.
I know the Harry Potter controversy is old news and probably people are well aware of the two sides to the issue. I like the story fine, but the big problem I've always had is that while we all know dragons and flying broomsticks and vomit-flavor jellybeans are all fantasy and fun, magical correspondences for herbs, potions, spells, transfiguration are not so made up.
Like I said, this is the FYI post for anyone who wasn't aware that this kind of stuff really is studied by Wiccans, Pagans, witches, Occultists, etc. I'm sure your children are strong enough in their faith formation not to be led astray by dabbling with a fantasy approach to magic, but I could never sleep tonight if I didn't at least mention this. Please, please, nobody be offended or insulted, I'm not criticizing...just informing from one who's been there. Maybe I should write a book....
In all humbleness and with only protecting intent,
cm4
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MrsM
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| Posted: June 24 2008 at 9:00pm | IP Logged
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I'll preface by saying I'm a huge HP fan, and have enjoyed all of the books immensely.
That being said, I still feel like your warning has real merit, and I appreciate you sharing your experience. I am not really comfortable with HP as a children's book, for some of the reasons you've expressed. Thank you for sharing!
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Lynn in California
Homeschooling dd13, dd11, ds10, and ds8
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Mom to darling Elizabeth and Francis, held in Mary's arms and always in my heart
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ElizLeone
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| Posted: June 24 2008 at 9:02pm | IP Logged
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When Harry Potter was a new sensation many years ago, I thought it sounded interesting. I read the reviews pro and con and thought it might be okay for my kids when they got older. (They'd be "old enough" now, but weren't then.)
At some point shortly after coming to that conclusion, I googled "Harry Potter." I was stunned to find, in the first two sites on the google list, direct or indirect links to occult websites. As I recall, neither of these were official sites, but rather fan sites. On one site, there was a direct link to an occult site that detailed real spells for those who practice the occult. On the second site, it took just two links for me to get to an occult site, but there it was nonetheless. These were not other Harry Potter sites with Harry Potter spells described; these were actual occult sites.
After that startling online experience, I decided that Harry Potter was not for us. I know many good Catholics who love Harry Potter, but my gut feeling was that if Harry Potter's fans are so closely aligned or interested in the occult as to have occult links on these Harry Potter sites, then I was not comfortable with my kids reading Harry Potter. The links, it could be argued, do not imply that the series itself is, in any way, linked with the occult. And yet, for me, that connection was too much.
Like cm4, I am not one to question the choices that others make for their family. However, since the issue has been raised, I thought my experiences in this area might be relevant.
Like cm4, I post this message with humble intent and great respect for the varied ways that good Catholics raise their children.
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Elizabeth in Wisconsin
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folklaur
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| Posted: June 24 2008 at 9:54pm | IP Logged
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cornomama4 wrote:
| I have been thinking about how to phrase this post all day. Part of me thinks I should just let it be and not say anything, but I just can't NOT say what I'm going to say. Please believe that what I'm about to write is only done in the most sincere interest in the well-being of you wonderful ladies, and is in no way meant to judge, examine or criticize anyone's choices about homeschool topics or literature. |
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It has been my experience, that when someone is planning to say something that they know is offensive, they preface it with something like this. So that when I read it, and AM offended, then it is all my own fault, as you didn't *mean* for me to be offended at your offensive statement.
cornomama4 wrote:
| I read Theresa's blog about the Harry Potter Potion class and so much sounded cool and interesting and scientific, |
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it is
cornomama4 wrote:
| but the part about knowing the magical properties of the different herbs gave me pause. |
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people thoughtout history have used herbs for their medicinal properties. Before 'medicine' was understood, people thought it was magical. Just because they thought it sure didn't make it so.
cornomama4 wrote:
| Then I looked at the Hogwart's Correspondance School link and was even more uneasy. |
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In a previous thread, which I am guessing you didn't read, I explained that there were some questionable links in the HSS. However, there are also tons of crafts, recipes, projects, etc. I am assuming most of the Moms here are smart enough to glean what they want and toss the rest.
cornomama4 wrote:
| Why was this? I can only say it plain and simple...spells, charms and potions are dabbling with the occult. I know HP is all suppossed to be make believe and fun, and it's such a great story, but the magical part of it is opening the door to the world of darker forces. |
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You are entitled to this opinion. I happen to think you are way off base. WAY off base. And yes, I am also speaking from experience. YOu can think I am wrong too. But there is a difference between saying "I don't agree with you" and saying "you are letting your children dabble in the occult."
cornomama4 wrote:
| I know the Harry Potter controversy is old news and probably people are well aware of the two sides to the issue. |
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A quick search would have turned up a bunch of thread you could have read through to see just how thoroughly this has been discussed here before.
cornomama4 wrote:
| I like the story fine, but the big problem I've always had is that while we all know dragons and flying broomsticks and vomit-flavor jellybeans are all fantasy and fun, magical correspondences for herbs, potions, spells, transfiguration are not so made up. |
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Cornstarch and glue mixed into playgoop and called Potions Class and Goblin Slobber is not going to lead anyone astray.
I refuse to live my life in fear, and to run from things that are fun and fantastical just because some people twist things into evil.
And the only reason I am replying on list is because I *am* quite offended at your public rebuke of me, and of seeming to suggest that I am parenting my children in a way as to lead them into sin and danger and witchcraft.
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cornomama4
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| Posted: June 24 2008 at 10:02pm | IP Logged
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I just wanted to add that I have always felt this way about HP, and nothing about the sites I mentioned specifically sent me "off the deep end". I'm as cautious of small-minded sanctimonious diatribe as the next person and recoil at the idea of censorship or "forbidden" books or ideas.
I just want to share my experiences so people can consider another point of view. It's all valid, and teaching my kids the medicinal properties and latin names for the herbs we use at home is a really inspiring idea. IMHO, HP doesn't "teach" the occult, it's not linked with the occult,that's a knee-jerk reaction. But, again IMHO, it can evoke an interest in things that should be approached with caution, with a parent's guidence, things that are all to available now days with just a click of the mouse.
Those of you who love HP and include it in part of your schooling, don't for one minute think I'm criticizing you. Good grief, I'd be the last one to tell anyone what to do after all my mistakes in life. It is, however, impossible to bring up a concern about a topic without somehow implying that the opposite viewpoint is flawed. It's very hard to add a different opinion or contrasting view of the subject without it seeming to be condeming the original idea. But love of HP is an idea shared by millions (billions?) of folks all over the world, and I would express these feeling to anyone I cared at all about. Same with the Golden Compass, BTW, but that's a completely different topic!
Not everyone's faith is as strong as the people's here..we all have friends we want to help. I don't live in fear of the world, but I feel that knowledge is power, and someone naive to this subject may benefit from at least considering my concerns.
cm4
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ElizLeone
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| Posted: June 24 2008 at 10:31pm | IP Logged
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I did not realize that HP had been widely discussed here, and I apologize for jumping in on what is clearly a controversial and already-discussed subject.
Having said that, I read cm4's posts as humble and kind expressions of her experiences. I know that when I make decisions, I enjoy hearing all the pro's and con's of an argument, especially when both sides may have merit.
God bless one and all, and I'll jump off this touchy subject. 
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Elizabeth in Wisconsin
7 kids, 1 little saint
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Jen L.
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| Posted: June 24 2008 at 10:49pm | IP Logged
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nevermind
In peace,
Jen
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MacBeth
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| Posted: June 24 2008 at 11:06pm | IP Logged
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Oh, I hate putting on my moderator badge and acting as sheriff... 
It seems that, cm4, you were posting in good faith, but there are many members who have enjoyed the good fun of the HP chem or science units, that there are bound to be feelings hurt. When beginning a discussion, it's always a good idea to check for past threads for information, to prevent redundant threads, and to get a feeling for the sensitivity of the board members.
No one likes a lecture (and I do recognize the irony of this lecture I'm giving here ). This board is meant to be a conversation between friends. If I were concerned about the occult among members, I think I would start with a question to engage discussion, not a warning.
Meanwhile, let's all grant the premise of good faith and move on. Please limit further discussion to enjoying HP while avoiding the occult  , and avoid any more discussion of the intent of the original post.
Please? 
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God Bless!
MacBeth in NY
Don's wife since '88; "Mom" to the Fab 4
Nature Study
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cornomama4
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| Posted: June 25 2008 at 12:27am | IP Logged
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No problem, MacBeth. I think I have coined a new phrase: PBP...Pray Before Posting. If I'm concerned about something, I can pray for that God will send any message to the hearts of those that may benefit from it, and if it has no merit He can just sweep it under the rug!
I also didn't know this had been discussed ad nausium here, this particular aspect of it anyway. Some of us are newer and not privy to the hashings of old, and much posting seems to have disappeared after the whole fairy thing?
cm4
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Mackfam
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Non Nobis
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| Posted: June 26 2008 at 7:28am | IP Logged
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It is a challenge as a new member to know what has been discussed before, and in particular to gauge the potential reception and sensitivity level from the members here.
MacBeth wrote:
| When beginning a discussion, it's always a good idea to check for past threads for information, to prevent redundant threads, and to get a feeling for the sensitivity of the board members. |
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Old posting and threads do not disappear - they are a valuable source of information (from diapering to lesson planning  ) and are available for search by pressing the search button in the top right corner of your screen.
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Jen Mackintosh
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Wildflowers and Marbles
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florasita
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| Posted: July 01 2008 at 11:57am | IP Logged
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I just wanted to let you all know I quite often post regrading other religions etc. on my Mission Blog
Lately I posted a tad on the differences between my catholic belief ( the virtue of faith ) and that of my wiccan friends . One of which is my sil my dear dear friend . wicca is merely a religion just like hinduism islamic , cree , apache etc.
Many of my friends are pagan secular I think they were called gentiles 2000 yrs ago many are catholic and don't know it yet I just did a daily reading for a dear friend who is dying of cancer he is definately not catholic ( yet ) but it is is openness to accept me into his home to lay hands and read from the bible that leads to his conversion which is happening eachy day I will testify to this
If you've any questions etc. I'd be happy to answer what I know or even have my sil write to you she has been a wiccan for the last 20 some yrs
If you have much fear regarding other religions I always refer people to Mother Teresa who can really help take that fear away . She work with and took advice from people of many varying religions .
Maybe there is need for a debate board where opinions can be stated and debating civily can be done not heated or hate felt arugments
again I'm very happy or willing to help and my sil would also be willing to answer anything she has a masters in religious philosophy and is from a huge french roman catholic family
Much Love , Roxie
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Mackfam
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| Posted: July 01 2008 at 3:51pm | IP Logged
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Roxie,
You are thoughtful to offer insight here, and I always appreciate the advice to look to Mother Teresa for example. Your missionary spirit is always so clear every time you post.
In the past I think we've really discussed very carefully and charitably the many viewpoints associated with the Harry Potter books. There are a variety of perspectives here. I am always so grateful for the charitable tone this board offers because it allows for discussion in an unintimidating and humble and open way on the varying methods we as home educators choose to educate our children with.
Still, I think there are limits to the discussion here. Our statement of purpose from the 4Real Homepage:
"4Real is a volunteer ministry providing family-to-family support for Catholic parent educators and friends who emphasize Living Books as they design or adapt curriculum to meet their family needs. This message board is moderated by Catholic home educating mothers who value a respectful and courteous online haven, strive to choose the choicest part of educational opportunities, hold fast to what is good, share a loosely defined educational philosophy, and enjoy its related methods. Many members identify with a similar philosophy and use similar methods while all members have ideas, methods, materials, and experiences to share."
I do appreciate that you sensed that this is not the place to discuss Wiccan philosophy.
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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florasita
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| Posted: July 02 2008 at 1:10pm | IP Logged
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No prob Jennifer thanx and well said
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May I rise & rest with words of Gratitude on my Breath
May I have the Heart & Mind of a Child in my Depth
May I forever remember to be a Light
May Peace Love & Hope be My Sight
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4Real Forums : Philosophy of Education
Topic: hogwarts and potions
