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Angel
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| Posted: April 25 2014 at 5:34pm | IP Logged
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I wondered if we could have a discussion about how CM writing works in high school -- whether you combine it with more standard, college-prep high school writing instruction or rely only on CM's methods. (Maybe we could have some clarification of how CM taught writing in the upper forms? Jen?)
I've never been very formal about writing instruction in the past. Mostly I have asked for what amount to written narrations, with some more analytical questions thrown in (usually under the guise of CM-style end of term exams), as well as a few longer research paper/project-type pieces. We would pick a few papers every year to revise, and I would lead them through the editing process. Both my teens seemed (to me) to be good writers.
This year I have made an attempt at teaching the five paragraph essay. I must confess that I hate the five paragraph essay. I understand that it is a convenient and easy template that will turn out a coherent essay under duress. But five paragraph essays always sound to me like... five paragraph essays. And what I think has been happening is that the kids' writing is becoming less vital under my tutelage.
Now, this could totally be my teaching and not the fault of the five paragraph essay, which, incidentally, I do think is a good tool for a writer to have in his toolkit. But I don't think I want to belabor it too much. I'm just wondering... did CM ever teach composition formally or did she *always* rely on the narration? If you have done language arts "the CM way", how have you approached writing in high school? (And if you have, care to share any resources?  )
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Angela
Mom to 9, 7 boys and 2 girls
Three Plus Two
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SallyT
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| Posted: April 26 2014 at 11:25am | IP Logged
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Well, I do teach the 5-paragraph essay and find it useful, though obviously it does produce a kind of constraint on kids' writing. I don't know that that's necessarily bad, however. It's a little like taking a kid who's always played piano by ear -- beautifully -- and retraining him to read music. To go back and have to plunk out simpler tunes by sight is obviously not as fun, beautiful, or expressive as the playing-by-ear was . . . but at the very least it's a useful skill set and trains the mind in a different way, which may bear richer fruit in time.
Over time, a basically good writer will learn to marry structure and voice in a productive way, and in the meantime, to have a sense of a structure that can be adapted to various writing contexts is a kind of survival skill -- especially when you have seven papers due in three weeks and just have to bang out something coherent. That's my college student's life right now -- she just turned in the first, so it's down to six major papers in three weeks . . .
We don't do a *lot* of formal writing, though. I run my kids, usually in 9th grade, through Jensen's Format Writing, because I do think the sense of structure is helpful. And I've used some of CK-12's Commonsense Composition, mainly because I think their chapters on writing about literature and doing rhetorical analysis are good. I will probably have my current high-schooler take a rhetoric course at Belmont Abbey in his senior year -- from what I understand, their newly-revamped composition program is very much, in spirit, like the Progym which Jen talks about in . . . um . . . some recent thread. I can't remember which one right now. I think that will be very good preparation, as a bridge to college writing, on top of the writing he's already done for me. Possibly with my younger set my own composition program will start to look more like the Progym from the get-go.
In the main, I do think that writing exercises meant to teach a certain aspect or form of writing -- while the result obviously sounds more like an exercise than like a live piece of writing -- are good and useful. In the long run, I don't think that a high-school student's written voice is going to be seriously stifled by this kind of thing, any more than my own voice in poetry was stifled by having to write sestinas and villanelles, when I didn't feel like writing sestinas and villanelles, in workshops in grad school. Those were awful poems in and of themselves, but doing them as exercises did contribute to greater facility with certain forms and constraints in poetry writing in the long run, and I'm glad I had to do them. They did make me a better writer, in my own voice, ultimately.
Sally
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Mackfam
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| Posted: July 15 2014 at 10:10am | IP Logged
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Been saving this in my email inbox to respond to!
Angel wrote:
| Maybe we could have some clarification of how CM taught writing in the upper forms? Jen? |
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Great question, Angela!
From Charlotte Mason, Volume 6, p. 193:
CM wrote:
| “Forms V and VI: (my note…this would be roughly the equivalent of grades 10, 11, and 12) In these Forms some definite teaching in the art of composition is advisable, but not too much, lest the young scholars be saddled with a stilted style which may encumber them for life. Perhaps the method of a University tutor is the best that can be adopted; that is, a point or two might be taken up in a given composition and suggestions or corrections made with little talk. |
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I'm going to include here for review some compilations I pulled together - I needed to get a sense of what CM's students were doing *specifically*, so I compiled their books and assignments from the Fall 1921 term of work and also pulled from The Curriculum in Volume 6. These cover from 8th grade - 12th grade, and they're not meant to dictate specifics, but give a general sense of what CM was doing with her students at these stages/grades:
2014-07-15_092706_CM-FormIV-Grades_8_-_9.pdf
2014-07-15_092722_CM-FormV-Grades_10-11.pdf
2014-07-15_092741_CM-FormVI-Grades_11-12.pdf
So, the above is the best answer I can give you to your question, "How did CM approach high school writing?"
1) She taught composition as an extension of written narrations
2) She was insistent that a student not be given so much instruction and writing requirements that might trespass on the child's natural sense of style and "writer's voice" (borrowing a julie Bogart/The Writer's Jungle).
3) Writing should be relevant, sharing the same vision as in Classical Education: Writing is a way of expressing and entering the "Great Conversation."
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So, that's CM's take.
Here's my approach:
4th grade - 8th grade - written narrations. Exclusively. We may free write 1 - 2 writing projects and walk them through the editing process. That's it. I spend my focus and energy in helping that age student transition from oral to written narrations and getting their words onto paper. I don't teach the 5 paragraph essay. I've never liked the model and think it reads like cardboard.
9th - 12th grade - Continue with written narrations. Walk more written narrations through the editing process. Freewrite/brainstorm --> essay (more below). I do teach outlining, finding it a useful tool for a writer, so I do teach that in upper Forms (sometimes I begin this in 8th...just teaching it). I do teach basic tools for building an essay. I tend to approach upper level writing using Classical resources, but don't prefer those that are overly structured, time heavy, labor intensive, insist on long/essay-ish writing projects at ages earlier than 8th/9th grade.
RESOURCES AND HOW I USE THEM:
Memoria Press --> Classical Composition Series (Teacher's Manual Only!)
I have found and REALLY enjoy the Memoria Press Classical Composition series. This series uses the Classical exercises of the Progymnasmata as its basis for teaching writing, progressing from one stage to the next. The series is not twaddly or nonsensical - just typical Memoria Press straightforward style. I like it because I can take the books (I only purchase the Teacher's Manual, not the child's workbooks, because we don't complete all assignments as written) and easily fit it to our CM methods of short lessons. How I use the series
** First, I read through the T.M. extensively - I might take a week, and make notes in the margins, and come up with a general vision for how I'll approach this "stage."
** I weed out busywork (copy vocabulary words...fill out worksheet), and do much of the background work orally with the child.
** I tend to only use the first half of the book to teach the concept/tool for that particular stage...but this really depends on the child. If they "get it" - great, we're done with lessons and I encourage use of the tool/methods, applying it to our own booklists/reading for the rest of that term/year. It may be that a particular child needs to move a little slower through a stage - again, this can be totally flexible - just teach segments of a lesson, and spend longer time practicing that particular "tool." (Example of a tool would be teaching outlining in the Fable Stage).
** I teach my children the "how-to" of that particular stage (through short, reasonable lessons in the T.M., and then we springboard from there using the style tools, applying them to their old familiar friend, the written narration. I'm trying to convey that I'm not locked into using the ENTIRE book for an ENTIRE year! We don't have to repeat lessons and practicing ad nauseam! My goal is to teach until a child "gets" the tools of that stage and then put the book away as reference, while allowing the child to use the new tools with his/her own reading - this makes the writing RELEVANT! Does that make sense? SUMMARY ** I think the series gives tools and help, can be molded easily to fit a CM day/approach, and then the tools spin easily so that we spend a few weeks learning the "tool/how-to" of that stage of the Progym, and then we apply it to our own booklist/reading. It doesn't become yet another curriculum to slog through the day with.
Help For Highschool by Julie Bogart (for teaching specifics of an Exploratory Essay)
I REALLY enjoy taking one year (I did this in 9th for my first student, but will likely complete it in 10th for my next) and letting the student walk through Julie's Help For Highschool book. It gives a lot of hand-holding for the essay writing process, and fits VERY WELL if you've been using her tools and methods from The Writer's Jungle.
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Hope that gives a few ideas to work with, Angela! Or maybe it's enough of a review/explanation to weed some resources/ideas completely out, too - which can also be very helpful!
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19 , ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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SeaStar
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| Posted: July 15 2014 at 10:52am | IP Logged
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This is a bit off topic. but something that really has had me thinking over the past several days.
You can learn to write using many different methods. However, at the college level your writing will be judged by a professor according to what he/she thinks is good writing.
Andrew Pudewa explores this idea in one of his talks. When writing, no matter how you learned to do it, consider who will be evaluating it.
If it's a college professor, go to the library and find and read works that professor has written. Does he like the 5 paragraph essay and use it himself?
Does she use a lot of very short sentences, because clauses, lists, quotations.... how does this person write herself?
You can write a masterful piece only to have someone else find it lacking if the style is too far off from what he thinks good writing should be.
I had never thought of that before and wish someone had given me that hint before college. I think it is worth at least exploring a bit with high school students.
It's a version of "know your audience", but with a twist.
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Melinda, mom to ds ('02) and dd ('04)
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: CM vs. standard high school writing
