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MarilynW
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| Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 11:39am | IP Logged
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I was thinking of starting a series of posts - not sure anyone would be interested in joining in. A kind of High School 101 - esp for those who are facing first time high school homeschooling and who could benefit from the wisdom of those who have gone before. I was thinking of something like:
1. High school goals
2. Advance planning and resources
3. Transcripts and record keeping
4. Various deadlines/tests - when to look at colleges, PSAT, ACT, SAT, CLEP, SAT etc etc
5.Dual enrollment/early graduation etc
6. Extra-curriculars, voluntary work/paid work
My oldest only started Grade 9 this year - but I am doing lots of research and writing about it - so would be happy to share when I can.
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ALmom
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I like the idea Marilyn. I have a senior (maybe?) and a 9th grader plus one who graduated about 4 years ago.
One thing that keeps coming up in high school transcript things is the variety from state to state. It must drive non-Americans crazy how one country can have such a myriad of different rules state by state. That is part of the beauty too, though - but can make counseling through highschool where you don't want to close doors - a bit of a daunting feeling. Plus, if you couple that with some children who have no clear idea yet of what they want to do (and this is totally not uncommon in 9th - then stress can tend to rear up on me). I've also learned to expect drastic last minute changes in goals. My first two switched in opposite directions - oldest never wanted college and now she is applying to graduate school (decided somewhere in highschool that she wanted college after all) and the other started out thinking college - history or english related, then drama. She was actually looking into schools in New York one year. Now she doesn't want 4 year college at all - and is getting hands on learning in a Jr Firefighter program. My big lesson was having plans to cover bases and strategies for switching gears without too much stress. Usually if one door closes, there is another way in. So we cannot go the Jr college route directly from high school - don't have sociology on our transcript and I really don't want to stress over it and refuse to totally revamp from what I know to be important. At first I was trying like the dickons to mimic the state transcripts - but our way of schooling is well more Kolbe like. Obviously it is a solid education - just doesn't meet the requirements for our Jr colleges. But their requirements are only for coming directly from high school - so she can do her first year at a local university and they do have firefighting type courses there - and if she needs to transfer, she can  . I wish I'd known to look for a back door early before spending half a year stressing over how to suddenly meet Jr College red tape.
I know this whole post will be helpful - and give us all ideas of creative ways to get what we need. But you'll also always need to be aware that what is achieved easily in one state, is a challenge in another and vice versa. Universities are relatively easy for homeschoolers to get into here. I didn't even have to send booklists or anything - just our church school transcript and SAT scores.
I can duel enroll with ease as a homeschooler (community college and University) - but even duel enrolling in the community college will not help my child get in there after high school if their transcript does not look identical to the states in terms of courses. However, the state Universities have no trouble admitting with a variety of coursework shown. Looking at requirements ahead of time is about the only way to know. At the same time, some of the more challenging schools to get in - seem to be easy to get into for homeschoolers from our state. I know folks at U of Penn that didn't have access to AP tests at the time and they went on a full ride. Don't know if it is as easy for homeschoolers from Pennsylvania to get into their own school - but didn't seem to matter from here. Several places seemed to actually recruit homeschoolers - IF the SAT score was high.
Of course we are a church school state - so everyone (whether they follow a standard curriculum or not) ends up with a school transcript. Of course questions like class ranking, # in your graduating class, etc. can give it away even coming from out of state - so who knows! I get the idea that some places appreciate the uniqueness of the learning experience and some places you just kind of blend with the myriad of different applicants whose transcripts all look different anyways!
I do know that keeping booklists, curriculum/texts with a course, etc. helps. Also keep a list of hours and things done as community service/volunteer.
One of the best aids we found is published by Kolbe called Parent as Counselor. It is fairly inexpensive, has just been updated and is sold to the public at large (not just Kolbe families). They even covered athletic elgibility which is something I've never seen handled anywhere else.
Looking forward to seeing others pointers - I'm not good on-line and I keep learning from you guys how much is available on-line.
Oh and we just found out about some really great opportunities through civil air patrol - and it isn't just for folks interested in being pilots and/military academies. The group we are in seems very welcoming of family.
The most important thing is to investigate your own community's resources - talk to other homeschoolers in your area.
Janet
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guitarnan
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I think it's a great idea - my ds is finishing high school this year (one down...one more to go!) and I know I learned a lot from the helpful moms here as we got the high school thing going. I was surprised at how the PSAT/SAT thing had changed (calculators!) and had to do some scrambling to get ds ready.
It would be nice to have organized threads of discussion here, so parents have related resources within the same thread.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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jdostalik
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Marilyn,
I have been reading the high school posts with much interest. Sorry I am chiming in a bit late but I would really love a series of posts on homeschooling high school.
My dd, Maggie, is in 9th grade this year and we are using the Latin-Centered Curriculum for her. I am finding it a bit intimidating to be the sole source of record-keeping (always have been weak in that area). We are also taking courses from Homeschool Connections and a few local courses that are specifically for homeschooled students (IEW and Apologia Biology).
I am wigging out a bit about prepping for the PSAT...was talking to a friend and she mentioned that I should start prepping dd now and mentioned Kaplan as a good company to use to prepare dd...All this sounds expensive and intimidating...
I'm happy to share and offer any information I find as we head down this road and very happy to learn from others! 
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God Bless,
Jennifer in TX
wife to Bill, mom to six here on earth and eight in heaven.
Let the Little Ones Come
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guitarnan
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| Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 2:57pm | IP Logged
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We bought the College Board's SAT prep book. Good investment. Maybe using Kaplan would have helped a bit, I don't know, but the money just wasn't there.
Truthfully, the hardest part of the SAT is living through the first one. Once you figure out how it works, your scores typically go up.
The College Board book uses actual SAT questions (since they write and administer the darn thing). You can time yourself on each section, fill in sample answer sheets and write the essay.
Just familiarizing yourself with the test format and question structure is worth a lot, really. Ds spent many hours with the book.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Erin
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I'm interested. My oldest is in 11th grade (second in 9th grade) and I'm feeling quite spiritually attacked at present, so I'm all for support and positivediscussion. Open to constructive direction too.
Re your first point: I'm taking a good look at just what do I want C to graduate with. Not just talking academics here but virtues, spiritual habits, the whole person. Love to discuss this.
Obviously the university entrance system is different here. But all your other points interest me.
I'd like to add, what ways can we socially make the transition from home to the work force/ college / wider world smoother. Have some ideas to share but would love to hear from those who have gone before. In particular if their young adults would like to give some advice.
Looking forward to this series Marilyn.
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Angel
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Well, I think it would be very helpful to have a series of threads like you mentioned, maybe stickied for future reference, too. Especially considering that my oldest is almost the same age as your oldest, Marilyn, so I'm going into this high school thing for the first time, too. I send my dh links to many of the high school threads so he can read them, too. Sometimes I think we maybe spend too much time thinking about all of this, but then something else comes up that I have no answer to so I';m not sure it is really possible to think about it *too* much.
I know that we're especially going to run into some issues that'll have to be sorted through in the near future, because it is highly likely that we will be moving, and I really want to get settled while I can still call my ds an 8th grader. I know we're homeschoolers and it's not supposed to matter as much, but... I would feel much better going into 9th grade having sorted out some of the state issues at least. It does appear as if we might end up in a "church-school state" like Janet, and just when I had decided that I would be doing my own transcript! I know that Cafi Cohen combined transcripts from various places, though -- "official" transcripts plus her own transcript for stuff that didn't fit or wasn't done through the correspondence school they used, etc. I have to admit that all of this kind of makes my head hurt at this point. And I know that my ds is not going to be the kind of kid who is going to pay much attention when we sit down to plan things out ahead of time, and I'm not even sure that going the traditional "study the same thing for a whole year" thing is really going to work for him either.
So... long story short... a nicely organized series of "high school basics" posts would be most welcome! I think I own every single homeschooling high school book ever published, but I keep coming up with questions they don't answer...
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Angela
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Three Plus Two
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jenk
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I'm all "ears" - my oldest is currently in 8th grade and I'm currently looking in the direction of high school. I could sure use some direction.
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Jen
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ALmom
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| Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 9:47pm | IP Logged
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PSAT is normally taken in 10th for practice and then in 11th for scholarships. If you become a National Merit Finalist or even semi-finalist - prepare to receive box loads of literature from colleges and universities (private and public) all over the nation. (Oh and don't feel bad if you miss one by mistake - my official guidance counselor failed to tell me that I had to take the darn thing again to qualify for scholarship so I missed out when I was in public high school. Sometimes we put so much pressure on ourselves thinking we are the only ones that overlook or miss things - but so do the officials that be that are in the system.
In order to take the PSAT, you need to find a place that will let you sit for it. The schools that offer it are not really required to accomodate and some local schools here are not real accomodating. You should ask around early as the schools have to order tests and cannot accomodate you if they do not have a test for you. We ask at nearby public and private schools - some have refused, but we have always found one. It seems I always call the school when the teachers are back at the beginning of the school year but before students arrive - say early to mid August and they seem to appreciate this.
So far I have had no success with AP testing. Not even the large homeschool cover would allow us to take with their students.
Duel enrollment here - agreements are signed between cover schools and the local colleges and universities and basically you only get 1/2 credit for a full course. However you also only pay half and get a full college credit. The community college does not have a standard SAT minimum score for duel enrolling as far as I've been able to tell. The state universities have agreements with the junior colleges which require that they accept certain starred courses. You can go online and learn the exact course numbers that will transfer. Now, if you are just needing to get courses for meeting core requirements - this can be a great option. If you are a science major, you may want to retake some of the math and science at the University anyways. The university has a SAT requirement and you are supposed to be a junior before you do it - but folks have spoken directly with professors, tested for languages or math and science and been admitted as a duel enrolled student prior to junior year.
You can get good inside information from local folks on the best professors, the best courses. For instance - the community college has a superb chemistry professor, and one who explains things far better than most - but he only teaches the daytime courses. We have inside scoop on a great history course (taught from a very fair and Catholic perspective, right here in the deep south where you often have to be careful). You also find out who has major bones to pick or which things are simply glorified sounding social engineering courses.
Many of the college professors will sometimes also tutor if they are part time professors. This is a great source for foreign language instruction - and a means of getting inside recommendations for duel enrolling early.
Our state schools will transfer any amount of duel enrollment credit without it changing your status as an incoming freshman. Schools outside the states may look at this differently - so you have to research maximum incoming college credit that will still allow you to enter as a freshman (more scholarships are available to incoming freshman).
We've never had reason to look into athletic elgibility and there are no agreements with local public schools for playing sports. There are however some large homeschool covers that host teams in the private school leagues.
SAT and ACT tests are easy. You go on-line and register for the one most convenient to you and the school has to admit you as long as your student has all the proper ID. However, if your student is a younger student doing highschool early - think early about your photo ID. If your student will need accomodations, be sure to have this identified prior to 9th grade.
There is a PLAN test which is a practice test for the ACT. It is much cheaper than the PSAT (practice test for the SAT) because there aren't any scholarships riding on it. The score of the PLAN does not go anywhere and it will give you a good idea as to which test is your child's strongest. The reading in the ACT includes a lot more science reading so often the strong math and science folks do better on the ACT. Obviously you take and report the test that your child does best on, if the institution accepts both. The ACT is generally the one assumed in the South (and I think midwest) but our state schools will accept either. You just sometimes have to remind them.
Generally you can take the SAT or ACT 5 times and colleges will look at your best score. Sometimes, schools will take the highest score from individual sections - sometimes it will only be the scores from you highest composite. Check with the institution for their rules.
We, also, were taken by surprise by the introduction of allowing graphing calculators into the PSAT and SAT. They may be used for some portions of the test. However, if your child has never used a graphing calculator, don't even bother - maybe just a regular one. One of the most prestigious local, secular, private schools here actually advises their students not to bother with the calculator - that you do better without it. I don't know if this is true at large or not - but for us it is true and we have just stopped worrying about it. I make sure my children have a calculator that is permitted (the SAT website lists acceptable calculators)and that they are very familiar with for doing any really big calculations or trig type things that might be required and allow the use of calculators - but I don't think any of mine have used it much. They are not whiz bang math people - but they have done very respectably well.
OH, it seems that most schools will also require placement tests in math and foreign languages regardless of SAT scores - unless you have duel enrollment credit or sufficient AP scores to give you credit for the core courses in these subjects. Be prepared to take these on orientation/freshman registration day.
As far as looking at schools - begin getting a feel as early as 8th or 9th grade in terms of just on-line looking at requirements. Start winnowing down in 10th and take advantage of informal visits to any universities that you are considering and that you can get to without spending a fortune. (Obviously visit ones on your top 3 before you decide to go there). We found it most helpful to be unofficial visitors the first few times - talk informally with RA's, students, look at lab or music facilities (or whatever type studio/equipment relevant to your child's interest). In music, we did summer camps or arranged for some private lessons with the professors. Try to visit when school is in session - and also attend Mass a time or two wherever the students go. Look at dorms and don't just assume honors dorms are the best - in some cases they are the wildest, believe it or not.
If you might move - contact homeschoolers in the areas you might be moving just to get the real scoop. Honestly church school states are really not difficult. You look at all the rigaroo on the descriptions and there is a lot of legaleese to protect everyone - but just because you are in a cover school, you don't lose flexibility and can still school pretty much in as many styles as there are. There is huge variety in schools - and they do all the paperwork reporting to the state for me  . Someone from the outside looking in - it just looks so controlling but the reality isn't that at all. One source of names of homeschool contacts in an area are HSLDA - and if you ask for Catholic homeschoolers in the area you are looking at, they most often can give you some names. Of course - this board is also a source and I know I'd PM anyone moving to my state if they asked. This would be especially important if you will be moving say when you need to take PSAT. Around here, schools start in August - well before most schools up north - and each municipality has a different school schedule - even when they are only 30 minutes apart. You'd need to know the schedule to know when to contact schools to order your child's PSAT. You can also save yourself time by knowing which schools to ask and which not to bother wasting your time with.
Generally we outline a 4 year plan prior to 9th grade - but this is just for our own benefit and changes without hassle whenever we need to change it. I have my children keep logs of books, volunteer work, etc. I provide curriculum/booklist to the cover school each year (and note changes as we go). I keep my own copy on the computer so that I have this if any colleges we apply to ask for it.
The FAFSA seems to be required for most scholarship considerations so it has been worth the hassle for us. Be aware that money is divied out early so be sure to send it in my the earliest possible date - which means you have to do your own taxes early.
As far as scholarship consideration, I think it does help to have outside references from folks who have worked with your child in some capacity. I wish we'd asked for letters of recommendation from a couple of our dd tutors even though they were not required.
If you are involved in athletics and/or music - these schools or activities may have earlier deadlines. Look at this. Requirements are listed on-line and I know auditions were early senior year for our dd - before the end of first semester.
There is also a bunch of different ways to apply - one will give you early information about your status but does not hold you to the school, one holds you to the school (and since you are already committed to going there, they are less likely to give scholarships).
I think that is all I know so far - but I know Angie or someone already posted a ton of sources for financial info and scholarship. It is never too early to look at this stuff. I'd love to see those links on a sticky somewhere for easy access for those of us from the dinasaur age.
Gotta go put kids to bed.
Janet
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Nina Murphy
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I'm interested, definitely.
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~~Nina
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and 2 yet-to-be-met
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MarilynW
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| Posted: Jan 13 2010 at 3:08pm | IP Logged
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Erin wrote:
I'm interested. My oldest is in 11th grade (second in 9th grade) and I'm feeling quite spiritually attacked at present, so I'm all for support and positivediscussion. Open to constructive direction too.
Looking forward to this series Marilyn. |
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Erin - I am so hoping this will be positive and encouraging. You see - I need encouragement from people who have been there and done that. Especially from "ordinary people" - those who have large families and medium incomes, those who have to try and figure out how to get the best education for their children on a budget, those who have researched their way and had their children succeed at high school and college on their own merit and hard work.
I have had to spend a lot of time just figuring out high school and college here. Yesterday I spent a long time on the phone with the admission deans of an orthodox Catholic college, a local state school,and a local community college. I also spoke to the HSLDA High School counselor. It was all very useful - but I felt like hiding under my bed at the end of the day - it seemed like such a huge task ahead of me.
BUT - that is when I sit with my husband and we remember what our goals are - and I regain my peace and focus again. I remember that I am educating my children for eternity and that the homeschool life is one of sacrifice. And I believe that my children can learn a good work ethic and become motivated to help out in their own education and succeed on their own merit.
On a different note - I have done so much in trying to find out all the things I know, I just want to have time to write it all up - in case it helps someone else out.
Sorry for all the rambling...
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Marilyn
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guitarnan
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I have friends who've expended so much time and money on travel teams, etc. and hope to see this pay off in athletic scholarships. While athletic scholarships are great, not everyone can get one - even if they are talented - and so it seems to me that it makes sense not to focus only on music or sports or whatever. There are greater goals - a firm faith foundation, good citizenship and a sense of personal responsibility - and these can be taught at home, for sure.
When military academies give information to homeschoolers on their websites - and remember that West Point was rated the #1 school in the U.S. this year - we are mainstream.
IMHO, planning is key to college success - not just admissions, but the academic and social life at a university. Plan for Heaven. Plan for a college prep high school schedule (4 years of English, 4 of math, 3 - 4 of science, etc.). Plan for some extracurriculars (music, sports, 4-H, volunteering, work). Plan for record-keeping. Plan for a few courses that really appeal to your child's interests and set him/her apart (botany...automotive repair...lifesaving...photography...).
I know homeschoolers who are getting into college AND succeeding. Are they all getting a free ride? No. But, neither are all those travel team kids. There are only so many sports scholarships out there.
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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MarilynW
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guitarnan wrote:
I
IMHO, planning is key to college success - not just admissions, but the academic and social life at a university. Plan for Heaven. Plan for a college prep high school schedule (4 years of English, 4 of math, 3 - 4 of science, etc.). Plan for some extracurriculars (music, sports, 4-H, volunteering, work). Plan for record-keeping. Plan for a few courses that really appeal to your child's interests and set him/her apart (botany...automotive repair...lifesaving...photography...).
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Nancy - you are a wise wise lady.
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Marilyn
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guitarnan
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No, not wise. I'm definitely a planner, though!
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Natalia
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MarilynW wrote:
Truth be told I am feeling daunted ...
I have had to spend a lot of time just figuring out high school and college here. Yesterday I spent a long time on the phone with the admission deans of an orthodox Catholic college, a local state school,and a local community college. I also spoke to the HSLDA High School counselor. It was all very useful - but I felt like hiding under my bed at the end of the day - it seemed like such a huge task ahead of me. |
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Marilyn, you expressed how I feel: daunted. Every time I hear all this talk about scholarships, college applications, deadlines, transcripts, record keeping,etc; I feel the anxiety piling up at the pit of my stomach ready to explode. My dd is a junior and I feel that I am groping around blindly most of the time.It feels such a huge responsibility; such a mountainous task! I am glad you are starting these series.
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| On a different note - I have done so much in trying to find out all the things I know, I just want to have time to write it all up - in case it helps someone else out.. |
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I am so glad and thankful for women like you and others I have encountered here where I live: women that are willing to share what they havelearned. I am such not a planner and I can't view things from different angles. I really think homeschooling moms are a great example of the body of Christ.
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Natalia
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Nina Murphy
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MarilynW wrote:
guitarnan wrote:
I
IMHO, planning is key to college success - not just admissions, but the academic and social life at a university. Plan for Heaven. Plan for a college prep high school schedule (4 years of English, 4 of math, 3 - 4 of science, etc.). Plan for some extracurriculars (music, sports, 4-H, volunteering, work). Plan for record-keeping. Plan for a few courses that really appeal to your child's interests and set him/her apart (botany...automotive repair...lifesaving...photography...).
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Nancy - you are a wise wise lady. |
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I think individuality and specification ends up in a large family being the *key*. We didn't plan well. We didn't stay on top of things. We got behind and were scrambling at the end. But we knew instinctively what our daughter was gifted with, and what she was interested in and we went forward based on that....and she knew, and we ended up having to trust that.
Even now, I am tempted to say, "Oh I wish we had insisted she prepare for a good Catholic college. The formation, culture, community is SO crucial for determining so much about their future lives and vocations and that is the best place to be assured God's will WILL be done....."
BUT for her====it is about MUSIC. And for the most part, the orthodox Catholic schools don't offer Music majors or teachers/programs that specialize in this area. Spend the time, if you need to, even more years than the "world" says is "acceptable", determining where the child's proclivities lie and not trying to push them into a certain educational path.
Some individuals, temperaments benefit from more time at home, a longer highschool career (my daughter was 5 yrs. which frustrated ME and her father at the time, not really her), a slower "blossoming", and living at home while attending college---- attending a state school or community college nearby.
God will be there to ultimately shed light on the correct path...but sometimes it takes time. That's what I would say: you don't always need to meet the current "deadlines" for things to work out ultimately. Although, for some children----and you will know which ones these are---moving things along is the appropriate thing. Our one daughter was "late" in everything. Our one son was "right on time". They are both very happy and thriving so far in their respective college programs. I raised them in pretty much the same way, the same environment, with the same values, the same goals.
(My one son in an orthodox Catholic college....he kind of led it all himself ---well, the Holy Spirit--- and "made it happen" kind of in spite of us! And this is a very introverted, reticent kind of child you would usually need to organize things for and light a fire under. We KNEW it was God's Will that he proceed with it!. Thank you, God.)
But I must admit, I thank Him every single day that my first son is where he is. And that my first daughter is so happy. I WAS very anxious about them and found my first two high-schooling experiences very nail-biting (because of ME). It's okay to admit that---it ain't an easy path for all of us.
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God bless,
~~Nina
mother of 9 on earth,
and 2 yet-to-be-met
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MarilynW
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| Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 6:08am | IP Logged
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Nina - thanks for writing. And I so know what you mean about the music - my dd has already checked out the music programs and the orthodox Catholic colleges just do not have the program she wants.
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Marilyn
Blessed with 6 gifts from God
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MarilynW
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Natalia - thank you for your kind words,
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Marilyn
Blessed with 6 gifts from God
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Angie Mc
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| Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 11:39am | IP Logged
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Nina Murphy wrote:
God will be there to ultimately shed light on the correct path...but sometimes it takes time. That's what I would say: you don't always need to meet the current "deadlines" for things to work out ultimately. ...well, the Holy Spirit--- and "made it happen" kind of in spite of us!...We KNEW it was God's Will that he proceed with it!. Thank you, God.)
.... I WAS very anxious about them and found my first two high-schooling experiences very nail-biting (because of ME). It's okay to admit that---it ain't an easy path for all of us.
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I hope to join in this awesome discussion soon...but for now, Nina hits on the point that is most in my mind and heart these days...God is in the driver's seat and *everything* is His perfect will. He has a unique plan for each of my children and the teen years are when I start letting go in order to help them to depend on Him. When a deadline is missed - His perfect will. When a standardized test score isn't up to snuff - His perfect will. When I'm imperfect - His perfect will!
Marilyn, thanks for starting this great topic/s and thanks to all for sharing your experiences .
Love,
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Angie Mc
Maimeo to Henry! Dave's wife, mom to Mrs. Devin+Michael Pope, Aiden 20,Ian 17,John Paul 11,Catherine (heaven 6/07)
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Lisa R
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| Posted: Jan 14 2010 at 12:37pm | IP Logged
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I'm definitely interested in this as well. My oldest is in 9th this year and next year my next son starts high school.
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God Bless!
Lisa, married to my best friend, Ray and loving my blessings Joshua (17)and Jacob(15), Hannah(7) and Rachel (5)!Holy Family Academy
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: High School series - anyone?
