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Barb.b
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| Posted: Nov 11 2009 at 7:21am | IP Logged
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Ds has English 11 from seton. Anyone else have problems with the graders? There are instances in ds's last test where I outright disagree with what they marked wrong, I sent it to the grading department and they only raised the final grade by 2 points (they took tons off this test originally and gave it a poor grade I didn't think reflected the work). Dd test in 7th grade was the same, except they did raise the test significantly that time. I don't know - it is as if these are college kids grading, who haven't read the book and stick exactly to what the answer key says and if it is not worded exactly like the key its wrong!
Wish I had a key to these tests, I know I don't have to use their grading; but I know it will take a bit of my time to grade them!
Barb
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Martha
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| Posted: Nov 11 2009 at 8:15am | IP Logged
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hmm care to PM with your concerns?
I might or might not agree with Seton.
I will say that I've had college instructors the same way. If they ask for a, b, c, they better see a, b, c, or the grade will hurt. Even if the item d offerred is very good and thought provoking.
I can say that if you have a problem, I'd CALL the advisor and ask what's the deal. I find that altho they are "okay" about responding to email, I don't think they are very verbose via internet and I get clearer answers with a phone call.
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Barb.b
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| Posted: Nov 11 2009 at 1:55pm | IP Logged
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Does anyone have any general experiences with Seton graders good or bad. Not really looking for help with our situaltion, just wondering if I'm alone in my frustration with them. For example, it is very hard to figure out what they want in a test or essay. Also, they have exactly what they want in mind and never really share what that is (even in the lesson plans and discussion leading up to the tests and essays.
Barb
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Martha
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| Posted: Nov 11 2009 at 3:16pm | IP Logged
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Well I'd be interested in s sharing of minds too.
I have found their plans to be very clear about what is expected on exams and compositions. 
You are paying them good money, so please make them earn it! Send an email requesting an english advisor or grader to call you.
Also, is this the first time you've used seton?
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Martha
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Barb.b
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| Posted: Nov 11 2009 at 4:13pm | IP Logged
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OK - in essays it sometimes seem that a grader is looking for the student to use a particular example and if it isn't there they mark off. It seems they don't accept similar and just as good examples. So one has to try to read their minds as far as what exactly they want. Also, in tests they sometimes are requiring an in depth analysis on something that was never covered in the lesson plans. I don't expect students to be "spoon fed" but there should be some treatment of the topics in the discussion questions. I have used Seton 4 years. I find I really like the subjects I use for before High school (religion, reading , english and some years history). Anyway, I'll stop babbling and check back again to see if any similar experiences.
Barb
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Barb.b
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| Posted: Nov 13 2009 at 7:05am | IP Logged
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I've been thinking - in the long run - there is no other place for english for us but seton (frustrations with their grading and all). Dh has not had a problem with me grading most subjects but has liked someone else grading english papers/essay tests because he thinks its too subjective I guesse. Anyway, any others I see that I can enroll in for English and are Catholic are also classical. Now, don't get mad, but classical literature (in the sense of ALL greek/roman ancient lit) would not only drive my kids crazy, but me too. I just looked at Kolbe, I really couldn't find (this was a quick glance last night so I might of missed something) anything past greek or roman writing from long ago. Now I think kids need some of that, but having 4 years seems nuts. So, I wondered to myself - because I have had problems with graders - doesn't make the English they provide bad. For ds - he really does need the Seton type writing. He is a math and science guy and needs the framework for writing a lit. paper that seton provides. SOme say that Seton doesn't let a child think - but maybe some kids to think need a framework to start with - and yes some limits or they won't know where to start.
Thanks for listening to my ramblings!
Barb
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Bookswithtea
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Barb, run a search and see if you can find Janet's old posts on her dd's experiences with Seton before she switched to Kolbe. This was her dd's exact frustration, as I remember. There was no room for even individuality, let alone a unique opinion.
Ds did one year of Seton high school English (10th). Knowing Janet's experiences, we gave Seton exactly what we thought they were looking for, and looked at it as an experience in "testing to the teacher" as opposed to testing to the textbook. Fwiw, I would not choose to use Seton again and I wasn't impressed with the grading process. It felt almost claustrophobic to us, but every family is different. Hope you get it worked out. I would definitely call them. I always had better experiences in discussing an issue with someone on the phone.
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mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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Paula in MN
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A friend of mine used Seton high school English and had the same problems you have mentioned. You are not alone!
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Paula
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Tami
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Barb, do you need enrollment somewhere to satisfy your dh? I'm wondering if you could find a retired (or active) English teacher in your area who would grade your ds's papaers? You pick the book and the paper topics, teacher does the grading. I would think that an English teacher would be familiar with most of the literature that you're likely to choose for a high schooler.
Another thought might be a local college student, someone that the English department would recommend: either a grad student or a top-notch undergrad.
Just some ideas...
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When we are crushed like grapes, we cannot think of the wine we will become. (Nouwen)
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ekbell
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You can buy writing courses and buy an evaluation service from Catholic Heritage Curriculum in their new e-book section (the evaluation service is offered on a first come first served basis every semester).
If the main need for grading is to have an outside person to evaluate the writing then this or a similar service may work well for you.
Love2learn also has a recommendation for this individualized service (which uses assignments that you or your child set) http://www.writeguide.com/course.htm.
This would separate literature study from writing which would free you to study literature that is more to your and your children's liking.
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BlessedBGod
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| Posted: Nov 14 2009 at 8:38am | IP Logged
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Yea, I have two ds's in eleventh grade right now with Seton. I am not enrolling my 6 year-olds because of my frustration with the grading systems at Seton. I was told by a man at the Seton English department that when I find a good grader, I should have the boys request that same grader each time. And that goes for each subject. I have been frustrated with Seton's English lesson plans for grades nine and ten and now that they are eleventh grade, they do it all themselves and don't use the lesson plans. (Though I would like them to.) So, I really don't know how they are. They just do the work that is graded. (I cannot for the life of me figure out why Babbitt is a book on their book list either.) Oh well. Anyways, they keep sending out a note on top to the tests to keep re-reading how they want the tests done. Also, our kids have to do it exactly the way Seton want it done. I do think if they had some people who have taught for thirty or forty years :) then they could grade the papers with more flexibility. (And I wish they would.) So, for now, we have the recent college graduates who want it done a specific way. Oh well! That's what we get with the kind of schooling we do. I'm pretty sure each college professor and public school teacher is the same way though. They like it done the way they want it done. Although, with Seton's history tests, Mr. Clark is the same way and he's been teaching for years and years. He wants specifics in his tests chock full of essays. It takes so long to memorize all those minute details. He wants particulars though and won't except less. It's tough but the tests get done the way he wants it. I just want to add that it is possible to bend to their way of doing things. Just keep re-reading those directions. My kids just re-do the tests each time to raise their grade a bit. I wish I could be more help. I am going through it too. I am set on not giving up though. The end is near. :) Eleventh grade and then twelfth grade is the end of it. Ahhh. A girl can only dream. :) From BlessedBGod, whose ds just got a re-do grade of 94 on the Screwtape letters test.
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Barb.b
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BlessedBGod, Ds is wainting to get his redo on screwtape back. Now he is working on studying for THe bridge over San luis rey. Seems like this one may be a bit easier for him as it seems cleared what to study and take notes on? I do go back and forth. I like the plans and assignments just not all the grading difficulties. Even with that, I think we will do English 12 next year. The books are ones ds will like. And English is something I need some sort of plans with otherwise we would probably end up just reading books because I wouldn't want to take the time to make and grade tests! Wish I could find a program, not classical, that came with tests AND the key for the tests. But, I don't think what I want is out there so we stay with seton. I figure if DS can end up with decent grades with Seton that he could probably write for anyone in college?!
Barb
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MarilynW
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My dd just completed Seton Grade 9 Q1 - and I really want to add to this discussion - but I have a crazy schedule until late this afternoon. I hope I can get back tonight. Just to say that I am very into individual writing and encouraging imaginative expression - and I have been really impressed with Seton English - and so has my very imaginative writer daughter. My problem is with quantity rather than quality - we have taken extra weeks to complete it. My friend is a college English professor at a university in DC- and he said that when his daughter completed Grade 9 Seton English, she was writing better than most of his college students.
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Kristie 4
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| Posted: Nov 14 2009 at 11:03am | IP Logged
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Have you seen Lightening Literature- you could try something like that but find someone else to look at the papers (a grandpa, teacher friend etc.- even rotate through your contacts)...
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Martha
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| Posted: Nov 14 2009 at 11:47am | IP Logged
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Yes, what Marilyn said.
And yes barb, he will be able to write for anyone in college.
I've seen a LOT of programs that might be easier or that claim to be more creative, but I haven't seen any that fully develop like seton does. It is hard. And they are demanding. It's difficult to see the results until you look back over where they started.
I also want to suggest that so far our biggest difficulty really had little to do with seton. It had to do with developing study skills. I was thoroughly skeptical about everyone raving over Superstar Student, but now I really think every student should do it no later than the start of 8th grade. Learning that having to repeatedly read lessons, how to take notes and how to know what to take notes over, how to manage time and to hear it from a college teacher has made a HUGE difference to my son. He now really understands that I'm not punishing him by having him reread materials or write things out and he sees the logic and benefit of it. Best money I've ever spent.
Seton has a free study skills course, but I haven't lookedat it yet. So far SSS is meeting our needs. But maybe that would help?
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Martha
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Barb.b
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Marilyn and Martha, Thanks for your imput. You both have enabled me to focus my thoughts! We will continue with Seton. The graders may be hard and at times I am sure I won't agree. BUT - I realize the English courses are good and will prepare him for college! I should know better then to start 2nd guessing my first choices. I think we are good right where we are in Seton English! Thanks for the advice!
Marth, I agree with Super Star student! My ds has been studying much better this year due to it. I had my 6th grader even watch it. I actually forgot I had it - we need to finish some of the lectures Stupid me - we didn't watch the ones on writing yet! Thanks for reminding me. The study lectures were a success - perfect timing for his lectures on writing!
Barb
Barb
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MarilynW
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| Posted: Nov 14 2009 at 3:25pm | IP Logged
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Ok I'm back
Firstly re grading - I was not happy with one grade on the composition (Compare and Contrast) and I called until I manage to speak to someone. They did go through it with me. What I had not realized (until I followed the thread above) is that my dd could do a redo test - she got a B, but given that she Aced all the others I am going to give the chance to redo. I would definitely call again to try and get an explanation of the grade. Like Barb I wish there was a key that would be issued so we could see what the perfect A+ essay looks like
General re Seton - this is my first high schooler and first full enrollment. Positives are that I love having the lesson plans and that much of the work is of very high quality. Negatives are the sheer quantity. Our family motto is multum non multa and I refuse to let my dd get in the mode of "do what it takes to pass the quarterly tests and get a good grade" - I am trying to have her develop good study skills, methodical working, good notetaking - and the problem with that quantity is the temptation to cut corners to get it done In addition my dd does a lot of extra things - a couple of musical instruments, band, ballet and also joins in things with the family during the school day eg religion and world geograpy (that Seton has approved as independent study for 1 credit) We have to really try and get organized for Q2 to make sure she does important things well. (esp as she will be taking an external science class - which uses the Grade 9 science book)
I am looking at things very carefully. My main reasons for enrollment are
-lesson plans
-transcript (the biggie for me)
But I know that a full enrollment may not be the way to go for future years - and certainly not for my boys. The problem is that if I only pick and choose certain classes from various places, I have to do my own transcript - and right now that looks very daunting to me.
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MarilynW
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| Posted: Nov 14 2009 at 3:26pm | IP Logged
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Superstar Student - I had never heard of this! My interest was piqued and I googled - wow it looks good as done a lot of the TC materials.
Question re SS - how do I fit in with an already full schedule? Is it a lot of work?
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Marilyn
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Barb.b
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NO, just watch and discuss and then encourage to implement. I think it is about 12 lectures.
Barb
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LLMom
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| Posted: Nov 16 2009 at 9:58am | IP Logged
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Martha wrote:
It had to do with developing study skills. I was thoroughly skeptical about everyone raving over Superstar Student, but now I really think every student should do it no later than the start of 8th grade. Learning that having to repeatedly read lessons, how to take notes and how to know what to take notes over, how to manage time and to hear it from a college teacher has made a HUGE difference to my son. He now really understands that I'm not punishing him by having him reread materials or write things out and he sees the logic and benefit of it. Best money I've ever spent.
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Can you give a link for superstar student? When I googled it, there were several things that came up, and I want to make sure I have the same one you are talking about.
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Lisa
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: Seton high school users:
