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Bookswithtea
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I'm trying to figure out what makes a high school literature course a good one. Sonlight includes approx. 24 books in their Lit courses (not counting history texts). MODG wraps theirs up with history courses but the students are given the option of choosing books that aren't necessarily even literature (that more resemble non fiction history texts). One could get a credit in American literature with them while only actually reading maybe 2 books that are considered classic American literature. It looks from the catalogue that Seton relies on excerpts in a text plus a small selection of whole novels (maybe 4), and one of them may be a saint biography or a saint's own work. I'm imagining courses that don't cover "how to write a 5 paragraph essay" or are endlessly reviewing grammar or vocabulary.
Given the diversity, I'm a bit confused. I could do any one of these courses and they would "count". And I realize that every course needs to be individualized to the child, accounting for some variety. But that doesn't explain to me the disparity between excerpts/4 novels and 24 novels!
If you were going to put together a British Lit or American Lit. course, what elements would you include and how many full length novels would seem right to you? Would you even include a text? And would reading and discussion be adequate for you, or would you expect to see tests/essays regularly throughout the course?
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~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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hylabrook1
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We've used Smarr, which looks really good as far as the reading list goes. The major downside is that the commentary on the books is written by a person with, shall we say, very interesting views. PM if you want to know specifics. You could use Smarr's booklists (which they print on their website) and then semi-write your own lesson plans with the help of Cliff's Notes. These are in our public library; also I think Spark notes are on-line. Most recently, I've used Hewitt, with absolutely no complaints. Just the other day, though, I went to their web site and it looks like they've re-vamped the high school English offerings, so I don't know what to tell you there.
If I were putting it together on my own, I think I'd go for a novel every four to six weeks, depending on length. That time would include writing a serious, thoughtful paper. You might want to include a unit on short stories and/or poetry, along with a Shakespeare play, then make sure you hit the well-known authors. I have a book called something like "Reading Lists from 100 Colleges" that gives an idea of some things you might
want to put in your high schooler's arsenal before college. Not to conform to all of the crazy things the public schools have kids read, but to give some commonality with other students so that, say, your child knows the basis for various allusions that might be part of a discussion with others.
Just my 2 cents.
Peace,
Nancy
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guitarnan
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When I took high school lit, we had an anthology for grades 9 and 10 (each one included a complete novel) and we also read several Shakespeare plays in grade 10. In American Lit and my other lit classes in grade 11 and 12, we had no texts, just original works. All fiction, poetry or drama.
We've gone kind of light on tests and essays, but I think for American lit we'll do more essays and an essay test or two (to get ds ready for college literature courses). Also, we are going to read Undaunted Courage even though it is nonfiction - I think it is the only Stephen Ambrose book my son has not read...don't know if we'll count it for history or literature yet.
I recall reading several works per semester (novellas, plays, novels and poetry) in high school and I was very prepared for college with that type of workload. (We did read a lot more in college, more like a novel a week for 10 weeks, but it wasn't a huge jump for me.) For example, in American Lit, semester 2, we read Huckleberry Finn, The Turn of the Screw, The Sun Also Rises, The Great Gatsby, some Steinbeck thing (I am not a fan, can you tell?) and probably one other book that I don't remember at all - maybe it was One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. (That sounds right.)
I studied British Lit in Ireland and we read Hamlet, Bacon's Essays, and Persuasion in a four-month term. (They teach to a high school exit exam there, so we dissected everything to the point of silliness.)
HTH!
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lapazfarm
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Literature is SUCH a broad topic. I think you could look at any of those scenarios as legitimate literature courses, just having different emphasis within the topic.
I am thinking that the course with 24 books means that either not much in-depth attention is paid to each one, or else this is a serious recipe for burn-out.
Only 4 books seems kind of light, but not if it leads to some real critical analysis of each one, and if other equally important forms of literature (poetry, plays, short stories, etc)are given focus time as well as just novels.
As far a a text goes, my inclination is always to avoid textbooks if possible. But you will likely need something to help with the literary analysis. Something like Sparknotes (free online) is a good substitute for a text, I think. Also, a decent understanding of historical context is an important part of understanding literature. I would think that if your history course pairs well with your literature course then you shouldn't need an additional text for that.If not, then you may want to consider using something to help with that part. Anthologies will often have sections devoted to understanding historical context, and Sparknotes has a nice context section as well. Very helpful.
Writing: how much writing is included as part of a lit course is very subjective. Do you assign weekly essays or do you want to leave room for other forms of analysis, such as writing original sonnets, acting out scenes from plays, creating authentic costumes and sets, or comparing movie vs book versions of a novel? All of these things are legitimate forms of "narration" or expressing understanding. It boils down to what your child needs,of course. If he/she cannot write a five paragraph essay then focus on that until he/she can. But once that is accomplished, why beat a dead horse, you know? Let them explore other forms of analysis.
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KackyK
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Theresa thanks! I had never heard of Sparknotes before...wonderful!!!!!
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Bookswithtea
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for Sparknotes. My oldest has used that before. Thanks for reminding me about that, Theresa.
I also like your ideas for creative writing.
Well, here's one of the things that is confusing me. In the MODG syllabus for American history, you can tell that they have tried to offer a wide difficulty range so that struggling readers can finish the course as well as advanced students. Madeline Takes Command and Juan de Pareja are listed, which I consider upper elem/early junior high level. But there are also Willa Cather novels listed and Uncle Tom's Cabin, which I consider to be definitely high school. Its easy enough to just choose the more difficult ones.
But several of the choices are books I wouldn't have considered to be "literature." One is a book called Mourt's Relations, which was apparently first published in the Plymouth Colony times and is their own reckoning of the experience. There are also choices like the Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin or Thomas Paine's Common Sense. And I guess they do a comparison of the French Revolution with the American one so there are also options for The Scarlet Pimpernel and Song at the Scaffold.
Is it me, or is this not what you would think of when you see "American Literature" on a transcript? What I didn't see is The Grapes of Wrath, The Crucible, The Scarlet Letter, House of 7 Gables...
I'm wondering if I am defining American Lit. too narrowly, or if this seems odd to you as well? I like the idea of using a syllabus that combines history, geography and literature into one, but I'm not sure what to think about this. I can come up with my own, but I am trying to avoid that, if I can.
Here's a link to the booklist for American history/lit. (2 credits, one syllabus). scroll down
Mother of Divine Grace 9th grade booklist
and one for medieval history/syllabus (2 credits)
Mother of Divine Grace 11th grade booklist
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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Mackfam
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~Books....I'm coming out of lurkdom to say that I've been following you around the boards   contemplating many of the same things you are contemplating. I will have a 9th grader next year. I've been benefiting from some of your questions greatly!  Thank you for asking them out loud!
...and...the link fairy fixed your booklist links above. 
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Bookswithtea
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Mackfam wrote:
~Books....I'm coming out of lurkdom to say that I've been following you around the boards contemplating many of the same things you are contemplating. I will have a 9th grader next year. I've been benefiting from some of your questions greatly! Thank you for asking them out loud!
...and...the link fairy fixed your booklist links above. |
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I guess I have been posting more than usual, lately. Reading Gatto and researching for dd's high school at the same time has me wondering aloud...a lot, I guess.
ETA: Thank you for fixing my links. Oh Linkie Fairy, what would I do without you, given that I have yet to figure out how to use those boxes up there...
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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Mackfam
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Oh, don't be embarrassed! I've been learning much and pondering MANY of the same things. Your questions are quite helpful!!! PLEASE KEEP POSTING!
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Jen Mackintosh
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hylabrook1
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Books -
As far as having American Literature on your child's transcript, you could choose to split out the 2 MODG credits into 1 for History, 1 for Lit.. Yes, this might be a kind of arbitrary call as to which place to go with Mourt's Relations, and probably some others. What we did was list a single subject as "History and Literature", give one grade, and count it as 2 credits. Our reviewer (from our umbrella group, not MODG) was fine with that and it didn't cause any problems with college admissions people either.
I agree that I wouldn't want to miss some of the books you mentioned. Could you substitute whatever is appropriate for each time period you study? Kind of using MODG more as inspiration than strictly keeping to it... Or are you enrolled with them?
Peace,
Nancy
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Bookswithtea
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No, we aren't enrolled. I do belong to an umbrella school that verifies our grades, and they don't have a problem with giving 2 credits for this syllabus, as written.
So I don't know if its just me, maybe? That's why I was wondering what other people picture in their heads when they hear "American Literature." I have no question its a decent history program. But I almost feel funny having "Medieval Literature" or "American Literature" on a transcript, given that they may have not actually read what people often think of as standard in a lit course. If its just my mis-impression, then it would be helpful to know that. 
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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guitarnan
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Well, Books, my definition is more like yours, although I'd probably consider an autobiography American lit - just as Bacon's essays were British lit when I studied it. You might look at it through the lens of different types of writing (novel, poem, essay, play).
Also, public school systems choose different works to study...I think colleges understand that. (Our county's American lit program is spread over two years, for example, and includes some choices I wouldn't expect, like The Contender and The House on Mango Street.)
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Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
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Bookswithtea
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guitarnan wrote:
| (Our county's American lit program is spread over two years, for example, and includes some choices I wouldn't expect, like The Contender and The House on Mango Street.) |
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I have a friend who used to be a lit. professor at a college before being a hs mom. She says House on Mango Street is on *every* list now because its the politically correct choice for an example of Latin American literature. The Contender is in SL's Modern History/Literature.
I dunno...I'm getting discouraged by the whole thing. 
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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Bookswithtea
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Well, I'm reconsidering on creating my own, now.
I'm imagining about 12 works of American Literature. What do you consider to be essential? And are there any Catholic works of literature that are American, or will I have to wait till British Lit. to have Catholic works?
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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lapazfarm
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Just FYI, I was just looking at the syllabus for Core Knowledge American Lit and it looks very good. It uses mainly the Norton Anthology (which we have and like) and a few other sources. Might want to check it out as another option.
American Lit Syllabus
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Theresa
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Bookswithtea
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I can't get the link to work, and when I search the site, I only see options for ideas pk-8. Am I missing something?
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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lapazfarm
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Hmmmm...that's weird.
Try cutting and pasting this:
http://coreknowledge.org/CK/resrcs/syllabi /PDF/AmericanLitSy llabus.pdf
Eta: Ugh! Do you see the space in the word syllabus? I'm not sure why, but it keeps popping in there. Delete the space when you paste it in your browser.Ugh!
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Theresa
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vmalott
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Here is the fixed link:
American Lit Syllabus.
Books,
I was just looking through the TOC at Amazon for the anthology Theresa mentioned and am seriously considering it. It's interesting to note that much of what is included for early American writing is what many consider to be primary source documents for history (such as selections from Bradford's Of Plymouth Plantation), so the lines are kind of blurred in that early period.
Like you, I hesitate w/the MODG syllabus, not only because of the "interesting" choices of "literature", but also because of the lack of choices in the syllabus for solid primary source documents. Now, DYOCC gives plenty of choice for both lit and history, and you will see those titles you mentioned above. My primary reason for purchasing the syllabus would be to have a resource for paper topics...but, then, that's a rather hefty price to pay for ONLY paper topics!
I have been working on some things for a few months, based on different reading lists (WTM, AO, DYOCC). I'm trying to keep with our original 4-year cycle (ala WTM), so American History will be split into two years: ~1500-1850 and 1850-present. I'm sprinkling in a touch of European history to help place things in context (like the French and Indian War), but the emphasis for these two years will be American History.
I'm not sure about going public with these plans, as some of the assignments are borrowed from curricula I already own (TOG and History Odyssey), but I'd be willing to let you take a look. I'm in the process of getting things up on Google docs. LMK if you're interested.
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Valerie
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Bookswithtea
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Thanks for fixing the link! I have been poking around on more sites, too, and have discovered that there is quite a lot of material on other lit. lists that could be considered more history based primary source documents. Smarr has Mourts Relations and the autobiography of Ben Franklin, too. Either thats a change or my public school did a lousy job (which wouldn't surprise me ).
I ended up starting the writing process for my own. After I saw the Serendipity plans for the Victorian Era, I started working on ways to create something similar for American History. Its nowhere near finished, but I feel like I have some vision now, at least.
Speaking of Lit, one of the decisions I am still trying to make is whether or not to include The Scarlet Letter. I remember reading it, but its been a loooonnnnng time. I remember it was dark and a case of adultry is the main focus, the victim-husband is a jerk, and something about the woman who wears the letter being a heroine, in an odd sort of way (and the male lover is a prominent citizen whose sin is not known to the community). This sounds like it has the potential to be a feminist nightmare (brave adulteress, two loser guys, blah blah blah). Am I getting it right? And if so, would you include it in a high school dd's program?
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and due 9/10
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Natalia
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Books,
When I took literature in High School (Spanish Lit not American) the course used a textbook. The textbook follow the history of Spanish Lit through the study of literary periods, their characteristic and then main authors and works for each. Then we read a one of the main works for that period. I haven't seen American Lit approached that way. That is something that surprised me.
As you might remember we have been doing Classical Conversations. For 9th grade G. did American Literature and British Lit for 10th grade. Both, it seems to me used the works of literature as a springboard to teach certain skills: critical reading, essay writing, group discussion,etc. There was no emphasis in creating a cohesive idea of American Literature as a whole, the way I was used to study literature. As far as the works to be read there was an effort to have variety-novels, essays, autobiographies, plays, short stories and some poems. I also noticed that, as you mentioned before,there was an inclusion of some books that I wouldn't qualify as literature and certainly not high school lit. (Sign of the Beaver, Johnny Tremain ) I think they were chosen, not because they were classics in the sense I think of classic, but because they depicted a period of American History AND because they provided a relief from some heavy reading.
Re The Scarlet Letter. That was one of the books G. read. She hated it! She thought it was boring. I thought the book was great and it provided some great opportunities for discussion, and the character sketches and the discussions of the themes of the book were great.But I think it wasn't appreciated by her because she wasn't mature enough to see past the long sentences and the long descriptions and see the beauty of the book.
BTW, Books, I am just getting caught up in my forum reading and I have loved reading the posts coming out of your busy mind 
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Natalia
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: High school lit.
