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Tina P.
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| Posted: June 23 2009 at 1:10pm | IP Logged
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We struggled through (and haven't even finished) MODG 9th grade. His greatest difficulty with the 9th grade MODG subjects is writing, though he claims most of what he has to read is incomprehensible and "boring" as well. He's finishing up 8th vocab and was struggling in 8th TT math. He's currently in TT7 and is flying through it. My hope is that he tests directly into the middle of 9th. Latin is more of a joke with this child than a subject. His interest is all science, so classical/literature or history based curriculums tend to drown him. I've searched these forums and have found lots of these approaches to high school and I *do* want him to have an understanding and appreciation of history and literature, too.
Any advice out there for how to navigate through the high school years with this child?
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Tina, wife to one and mom to 9 + 3 in heaven
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ALmom
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| Posted: June 23 2009 at 7:34pm | IP Logged
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Not a lot of specifics but a few ideas that might help narrow down specifics and empapthy as we are there with one of ours in some respects (writing not vocabulary and not a science strength - a math one).
1) Since you are enrolled in MODG, then utilize them to help you narrow in on problem areas. How can you use his strengths to build in weak areas. You don't have to accept or even follow everything they tell you, but they ought to help you at least brainstorm and talk through things till you have a strategy or two. Do you know any major areas that are the stumbling blocks in the math - in the writing? We discovered that my ds just didn't see the point of learning his facts and wanted to race on. I convinced him of how important the facts were by giving him very complicated problems (ie large numbers not something he didn't know how to do) and how much easier and how fewer mistakes if you know your facts at the drop of a hat. We devised ways, together, where working on this would be fun as well as productive. We had some crossing the midline issues (which made it difficult to retrieve information and the difficulty in mechanics of writing - ie using a pencil which we had to correct with therapy) We had some vision issues which we corrected for some. We also found that due to other things going on, we had to readdress a couple of areas - spelling and writing primarily.
2) Often strong science folks have to be taught to read literature. It is a totally different kind of reading. My literature folks find they have to mentally adjust to reading science (esp. textbook science). My science guy has had to learn to read history and literature a bit differently. He finds with questions, too, that he has to stop and remind himself that the question asks more than just the obvious when the subject is a non-science one. Let me give some examples:
We have to specifically discuss symbol (use of color, or allusions to myth or such).
We have to discuss the way the author creates a mood - sometimes by color or dark/light, but also mood words, symbols, the kinds of things that are around. Don't forget foreshadowing here.
We have to teach them to infer from context. If a bunch of dust is stirred up - perhaps this group of folks are riding horses (honestly, my son literally could not see this even as we went over it over and over. Finally, in his very science geared mind, he pointed out to me that just because a bunch of dust is kicked up, doesn't mean anything - the person could be running - after all, he kicks up a lot of dust when he runs). It has taken him a while and he still has to mentally remind himself that he is now reading literature, not science. If they ask a question about the kind of priest someone is, they are not just looking for the religious order to which he belongs.
I really was baffled about why this highly intelligent child could bog down so seriously in things like literature.
We found that a vocabulary book (we happen to like the one Kolbe sells) was actually beneficial to him. It really has helped him. For my non-science folks, vocabulary workbooks seem like such a waste of time. For this guy, it really was helpful to him. The book had short passages to read and answer questions (where the vocab was used), some analogy type things, etc.
Also, for the mad scientist type at least, other habits we had to pay attention to were: following directions, orderliness and attention to detail. We had to work on these deliberately a bit as well. (Most of my others, they sort of figured this stuff out on their own - this guy needed me to come down a bit harder on him).
As far as writing, something that holds them accountable to actually write helps loads. You may need to help him through the process. A lot depends on personality and learning style - but try to use some things he really likes for his first writing assignments so he gets the feel for what a good paper looks like. Actually having my son write about his experiments was great. See his brain thought way faster than most - but writing what he did, so much was left out that it was hard to follow. Since I'm a dunce in science, I had to ask a lot of questions 'cause I really didn't know what he was talking about - until he explained it. So you were talking about xyz. Where did this generator come from? What was it? Turned out he turned the battery into a generator and then described the process for him. I'd stop him afterwards and tell him, "ok, go write down just what you told me. That should go in there so the rest of the world knows what you are talking about".
You say your child is non-academic but science is also academic. Do you mean that his learning style is more hands on/experimentation? Use the way they learn best to help them over the hump. We did grammar using cards that we moved around until they got the concept -then went deeper with Seton kind of stuff.
Oh, my guy was not strong on vocabulary - in any field. He did lots of things and learned what was relevant and useful to his experiments but didn't really see the point in things like learning math facts, writing math problems down on paper (could do it in his head most of the time anyways), vocabulary, and rarely paid attention to directions on a test. Now, he is the confident type, so bombing a test or two because he didn't read the directions didn't upset him - just learned that maybe he'd better study and read the directions next time. I did kind of point out that he really knew the material as I asked things orally before giving him the paper and frequently had to ask why did he put down xyz? He avoided lit on me (to do more science) until I discovered this and realized that accountability beyond me was critical for him to jump start in this area. (He knows I'm distractable and he used that to prime advantage).
It honestly did not take him long at all to figure things out once we made these minor adjustments. (His first book report was Swiss Family Robinson and to entice non-science reading, I did do the Minn of the Mississippi and such books). He is not quite high school age yet.
Also seperate the mechanics of writing from the thoughts on paper, just long enough for them to get the idea. We used some visual organizing templates we got on-line - search under visual learners or visual spatial learners, if he has a strong visual learning style. Outlining is great for the more sequential type folks so if your guy is sequential, then get something that shows him how to outline - or use a textbook to outline from. My guy isn't naturally sequential. He didn't even answer questions after a chapter in order - nor did he number them initially. He often had one of the middle questions on the top of the first page, the first question in the middle of the next page - upside down and some other crazy things that made it a nightmare for me to even figure out what he did. I had to be gently firm and require certain things for my sanity's sake and he did learn. I did everything I could to make being organized easier for him.
Each child is different. This child would not have been appreciated in a classroom until very, very recently. Actually most of my children would not have been "strong academically" until somewhere into their high school years. I think just keep figuring out where they are, where they need to go, how they learn best and what is the most efficient way to help them over humps and you end up just fine - really!
I hope you get lots more ideas from other folks. I know it is most nerve wracking when you are dealing with high school as opposed to middle or elementary where you feel that you have time. (You still do have time, just it doesn't feel like it as much).
We have some work on spelling to do with one of our highschoolers - and writing. One suggestion our advisor gave us was Copy work - and it kind of hit us that this child missed a lot of this because he had visual memory issues for a long time (and is a strong visual/spatial learner). The visual issues are corrected - now maybe we just need to go back to copy work for a while to give him that model that he missed.
Janet
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Leonie
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| Posted: June 24 2009 at 6:58pm | IP Logged
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I find that movies and music are a good way of introducing classical literature ( via movies) and history ( both movies and music). Great for a child who may not really be into these areas on their own but also fun for everyone! 
Could you use the time period from MODG and the literature suggestions and find appropriate movies to watch together, with snacks, making it family time?
This has worked really well for us.
I try to think exposure. Exposure to these books, even if via other media. 
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Tina P.
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| Posted: June 26 2009 at 11:03pm | IP Logged
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ALmom wrote:
1) Since you are enrolled in MODG, then utilize them to help you narrow in on problem areas. How can you use his strengths to build in weak areas.
my ds just didn't see the point of learning his facts and wanted to race on. |
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Janet, we're not enrolled in MODG. I was just using the materials to see whether we might fit in a grade at some point. We still don't.  I think my son, like yours, doesn't see the point of learning many things. His life goals are a bit idealistic. And he thinks he has already learned what he needs to know. He's almost 15, so he already knows everything, doesn't he? 
A local friend of mine is an MODG consultant and encouraged me to try MODG. She cited the benefit of it being an accredited school. Ah, safety, I thought. And I like the *idea* of the day-to-day guidance. I don't like the 9th grade science (like the topics, hate the way it's presented) and the religion seems rather dry. The kids are beat over the head with grammar between Latin and Engish grammar texts. And while history is fun and the kids benefit from practicing writing from many viewpoints, literature is nonexistent in this grade.
My packaged curriculum friends as me why I "reinvent the wheel." I guess because you can't fit a square spoke in a round wheel. No "wheel" has ever fit us. Lots of kids adapt. Grin and bear it. But if their MOM doesn't buy the whole package, is it fair to ask the kids to love it? I'm excited to plan this next year. I just hope I don't freak out after planning the sixth child's schedule. 
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Tina, wife to one and mom to 9 + 3 in heaven
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Tina P.
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| Posted: June 26 2009 at 11:07pm | IP Logged
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Thank you, Leonie. You are SO right. We have to make it fun.
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Bookswithtea
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| Posted: June 27 2009 at 9:12am | IP Logged
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I tried to post the other day and sweet ds decided to reset the forum while I was typing/nursing!
Have you read High School of Your Dreams? I don't usually recommend it because I think people often expect a concrete plan (like CHC offers for K-8) and its more of a brainstorming book instead. But its one of the few resources I know of that addresses high school for non-academic teens. Maybe you could borrow it from someone first to see if it would be helpful?
Also, NARS has a free catalogue. They are an accredited school that allows you to choose the curriculum. In their catalogue they have examples and samples for students of all levels and interests, academically. They also sell some resource guides that are helpful for making a plan for children who don't want to go the college prep/accelerated route. Fwiw, I have had no problems working with them, they are no more expensive than MODG, you can still have religion courses on your transcript, and your child will graduate with a Maine accredited diploma/transcript. I hear Clonlara is also excellent.
ETA: In reading what I wrote, it sounds like NARS is only for those who are not academically inclined. I didn't mean that...they have plenty of students with stacked transcripts who go onto the best schools. I just meant that while schools like Seton/Kolbe/MODG cater to the academically inclined, NARS works for all kinds of students. Sorry for the confusion... 
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mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: Help for a Non-Academic Teen
