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Erin
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| Posted: April 09 2008 at 2:05am | IP Logged
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What sort of expectations should I have regards my teenagers 13 and 14.7, studies? They are both bright children, but I am afraid I have not done the best in installing good study habits. I am still struggling after two years of highschool (highschool here starts in grade 7) with just how much, what is reasonable to expect.
I imagine they are probably rather lopsided in some areas and lacking in others. I even looked at Kolbe the other night wondering if that was the answer, but in my heart of hearts I know that going it alone is still for us. Dh spent last week at home and he validated my feelings that the oldest two are not working hard enough. I don't feel its too late or anything but I do feel I need to do something NOW!
So what does your day/week look like for your teens? What subjects are they studying? How many hours do they study for? How do you extend them?
I'd be grateful for any, all and varied advice,  Please 
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Erin
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cathhomeschool
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| Posted: April 09 2008 at 3:59pm | IP Logged
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Erin, this is exactly where I was for much of this year. My older two are just-turned-14 and almost-13 (7th and 8th grades by school standards). Transition years are always hard for me. Are they doing enough? Am I expecting too much? Where should our focus be? How best do we prepare for high school at this point?
I looked at Kolbe. I spent lots of time pouring over their online catalog, sample lessons, and high school curriculum suggestions. Based on that, I bought Apologia Physical Science for my oldest (to give him a taste of textbook science and the opportunity to read/pace himself without Mommy having as much input/control) and started both boys on Christ the King, Lord of History. I purchased Koble's Junior High Literature Course Plans, but we've not really followed them. We're reading (or re-reading) the books and then discussing them as we read through Kolbe's questions/thoughts.
I spoke to the advisors at Kolbe a few weeks ago about my oldest and how best to prepare him for high school should we go with Kolbe (still up in the air. If we do, I know that we'll substitute heavily, which might defeat the purpose. Like you, I like going it alone. The only reason the boys are “on track” with history and science is that I’m not involved!) They suggested that if we'd not covered the Ancients much that we brush up on the literature of that time (Iliad especially). I don’t like that Kolbe spends so much time on Ancient History in High School. I asked about writing in specific. They said that in a "book report," they want a child to include three things: a synopsis of the book (beginning, complicating incident, climax, resolution), the overall meaning/theme of the book (with evidence/citing passages), and the moral of the book (how it should affect the child). So part of how we’re working on stretching my older two is to look at a book more deeply – to think on the Whys of what happened (and ramifications) and not just on the Whats. We’ve discussed how that is a part of being a discerning reader (and we do the same with movies).
Stretching them has also meant letting them pace themselves. They have to finish history and (oldest) Apologia by August. We didn’t start until mid-year. Every few weeks, I look at where they’re at and tell them when they’ll be done if they keep the current pace. They have control over how much they do each week. We talk about how they’re going to need to buckle down if they want more time off, etc.
What’s “required” of them. Well, I wanted to cover religion, math, reading (assigned read alones or books on tape), and either lit. discussion or some sort of free writing (or editing – using Writer’s Jungle and Kolbe’s course) every day, and then history and science weekly. I also like to hit Latin (using Latin for Children) and vocabulary work (Words on the Vine or Vocabulary Cartoons) periodically. This plan isn’t happening, though. Three of the kids are in music lessons. They are all in choir/orchestra. Then sports practice take up the evenings and we’ve got to make time for free play and projects (soap carving and sword making are the biggies right now). What gets dropped most often is the writing and discussion of literature and formal catechism study (they read about the saint of the day every day and some of their read alones are saint books). I know that we have plenty of hours in the day to do what I’ve listed. None of these subjects takes very long. BUT, a part of me leans towards unschooling, so really the majority of their day is self-directed. If I see that they’re spending too much time in the Lego room or if they start quarreling, I ask if they’ve done their math or history. That usually gets them in “school” mode for a while, and then they take another break.
You might just talk to Kolbe. At first I thought that we'd be "so far behind" because I go with the flow and have changed the plan so often, but after talking to them I realized that it wasn't so bad. If we did end up with Kolbe next year, and my son wanted to take the "regular" graduation route (as opposed to one of the honors routes), we wouldn't even have to do physical science, math or history at all this year. Even things like Latin, which are on Kolbe's middle school plans, aren't "required." The advisor said that they start at square one in high school. So what I'm saying is that much of 7th and 8th grade is "icing" and prep for stuff they will cover again in high school anyway. To me, the important thing this year is really *habit formation.* Get them used to pacing themselves, asking *why,* going deeper every day, beginning note taking skills, how to find information. The subjects covered are just the vehicle for this formation.
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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cathhomeschool
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| Posted: April 09 2008 at 3:59pm | IP Logged
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Boy that was long! 
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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Willa
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| Posted: April 09 2008 at 6:33pm | IP Logged
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cathhomeschool wrote:
| Boy that was long! |
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 I really enjoyed it Janette! I don't think I've ever gotten to read such a lengthy post from you!
I always feel embarrassed answering this type of thread because the truth is I NEVER feel like we're doing "enough" in the middle school years. And this is my fourth 8th grader, this year.
He usually gets done in about 3 hours. Math takes an hour and "the rest" is about 2 hours give or take a bit.
That was about par for the course for the other three, too. Some work a bit faster than others. It doesn't count free reading, help around the house, and their own interest-directed things -- which usually start taking up quite a bit of their day at this age. My older three wrote a lot; my fourth is very into athletics and spends quite a bit of time in a day on that.
By high school their work usually takes a bit longer -- my oldest was spending six hours a day on schoolwork by his junior and senior year. But he was never a fast worker, though a good one.
From what I've seen, so much depends on the kid and the family culture. I have a friend who was requiring more work from her first grader than I required from my fourth and fifth grader. I think you just have to find a comfort level -- for me, as for Janette, that came about from studying several different types of programs, and then developing my own that roughly corresponded, with some variations for our family.
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Willa
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Willa
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| Posted: April 09 2008 at 6:42pm | IP Logged
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Also, I made this schedule for my 8th grader:
here
I hope it's readable. It shows roughly what he does at what time frame. It shows 4 hours but he is pretty fast and usually finishes earlier than that. The "hours" aren't exactly hours -- they are just a guideline to show general order of subjects.
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AMDG
Willa
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Lauri B
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| Posted: April 09 2008 at 8:35pm | IP Logged
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Here's an example of two weeks from 13yo Andrew's schedule this year:
Week 3 (Oct 1-4)
History - do some History reading this week
English Lit week 1: FRIENDLY PERSUASION
Weekend: Watch the movie (straight through) one evening for entertainment
Monday -Thursday: Watch movie again in portions, answering several Qs per day - take notes. Discuss w/Mum each day.
Analytical Grammar Season 1: 1 lesson per day w/Mum & Gabi (30 min)
Pre-Algebra: One lesson per day, Monday - Thursday
Science - w/Mum
Wordsmith - 2. Verb Power. Do 2-A through 2-D, Monday through Friday.
Spelling
Week 4 (Oct 8-11)
History - do some History reading this week
English Lit week 2: FRIENDLY PERSUASION
Monday - Thursday: Answer ONE essay Q using 5FM. Re-watch portions of the movie as needed. Choose one essay. Science - w/Mum
Analytical Grammar Season 1: 1 lesson per day w/Mum & Gabi (30 min)
Pre-Algebra: One lesson per day, Monday - Thursday
Science - w/Mum
Wordsmith - Mon: 3. Adverbs. Tues: 4A Adjectives, Wed: 4B, Thurs:4C
Spelling
Here's 17 yo Gabrielle's from this autumn:
Week 7 (Oct 29 - Nov 1)
History of Science: Four chapters per week. Note important vocabulary, maps, diagrams, timeline information.
English Lit week 1: ARSENIC AND OLD LACE
Weekend: Watch the movie (straight through) one evening for entertainment
Monday & Tuesday: Preview questions & composition topics, then watch the movie again taking notes, pausing and rewinding as needed.
Wednesday & Thursday: Discuss questions 1-22 ALOUD w/Mum or Dad and begin discussing possible essay answers.
Analytical Grammar Season 1: 1 lesson per day w/Mum & Andy (30 min)
Curious Case: XX?
Algebra: One lesson per day, Monday - Thursday
German: 20 m Rosetta Stone plus 1 show daily, Monday - Thursday
Master’s Knitting
Spelling Workout 5
Week 8 (Nov 5 - 8)
History of Science: Four chapters per week. Note important vocabulary, maps, diagrams, timeline information.
English Lit week 2: ARSENIC AND OLD LACE
Monday - Thursday: Answer essay questions using 5FM. Re-watch portions of the movie as needed. You may choose to do one question per day and wrap up on the fourth day.
Analytical Grammar Season 1: 1 lesson per day w/Mum & Andy (30 min)
Curious Case: XX?
Algebra: One lesson per day, Monday - Thursday
German: 20 m Rosetta Stone plus 1 show daily, Monday - Thursday
Master’s Knitting
Spelling Workout 6
They work from 8 or 8:30 until 12-12:30 at which time we have lunch and then they finish up after lunch if they have anything to finish. (Sometimes yes, sometimes not.)
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Erin
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| Posted: April 12 2008 at 3:06am | IP Logged
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Janette
Thank you so much for your post. Thank you for giving me a close look into what you do. I'm pouring over it.
I agree with you over Kolbe and the Ancients. We're currently studying Early Church and I want to be up to modern history for next year, particularly focusing on Asia, being part of Australasia I think it particularly important for us to do so. These are the little details that that hinder me from buying a set curriculumn.
Cathhomeschool wrote:
| So what I'm saying is that much of 7th and 8th grade is "icing" and prep for stuff they will cover again in high school anyway. To me, the important thing this year is really *habit formation.* Get them used to pacing themselves, asking *why,* going deeper every day, beginning note taking skills, how to find information. The subjects covered are just the vehicle for this formation. |
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This is what my husband tells me all the time, and it is true I know. With my 7th grader I worry over his poor habits, but you've made me realise that is fine, this is what these years are for.
What I didn't make clear in my post is my dd is already in 9th grade. Actually looking back over the last two years have seen an enormous change with her attitude, we are talking a different child with a new maturity. Now she is ready for work, how much do I give her? What areas are important? What is not so important?
An example, she reads an enormous lot, she generally reads 100 books per term, however we never 'study' the books. We never use literature guides, is it really important? These are the sorts of questions I need answered. I realise for this child vocabulary lessons are not needed the words she uses reflect the quality of her reading. But should we do something more than reading?
Willa wrote:
I always feel embarrassed answering this type of thread because the truth is I NEVER feel like we're doing "enough" in the middle school years. And this is my fourth 8th grader, this year. |
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Willa
I laughed uproariously over this comment, I do hope you understand. But I have spent hours over the last year studying your Schola et Studiumand comparing and thinking, oh my Sean is doing lots more than Chiara. Actually I used some of Sean's work to Step up Chiara's. You have made me stop and think, we(as in hs mothers) maybe sell ourselves short, if youthink you're not doing enough, oh funny.
I think some of the problem is there is no concrete answer as you say' there is individual children and family culture is bought into play.
Thanks for sharing your schedule, it was very readable.
Lauri,
Thank you so much for showing Andrew and Gabrielle's schedules, it was really helpful, and I was reassured as to the time frame. I have been wondering whether my children should be working after lunch, but perhaps I should relax with their reading in the afternoon.
When I have time I'll post Chiara and Dominic's list and I'd love to have some input.
I appreciate the help from you dear ladies. I was thinking I should think of the areas that I feel are the weak ones for us and ask specific questions regards them. Such as literature.
Must feed the troops, I'll be back.
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Erin
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Willa
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Erin wrote:
I laughed uproariously over this comment, I do hope you understand. But I have spent hours over the last year studying your Schola et Studiumand comparing and thinking, oh my Sean is doing lots more than Chiara. Actually I used some of Sean's work to Step up Chiara's. You have made me stop and think, we(as in hs mothers) maybe sell ourselves short, if youthink you're not doing enough, oh funny.
I think some of the problem is there is no concrete answer as you say' there is individual children and family culture is bought into play. |
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I understand, and you are so right about the different family cultures. But it is funny because I ALWAYS look at what other people are doing and think our little homeschool looks rather meagre in comparison. Even after 15 years I never feel altogether sure I have the balance right and I expect it's because every child has been different from the one before.
Also keep in mind that our harder work is seasonal -- since Easter break Sean has been getting his work done in an hour and a half. During Spring we usually do more outdoor, unschooly type things and then of course, in Summer, we rarely do much at all -- usually just projects, field trips and reading and drawing, nothing much required.
I am interested in seeing your children's schedules if you get time to post them.
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Willa
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Willa
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| Posted: April 12 2008 at 12:23pm | IP Logged
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Also, Erin, you mentioned good study habits, worrying that you hadn't instilled them. Perhaps I am not the best person to address that since I never felt like I was very good at instilling study habits either.
Yet I thought I would mention that most middle schoolers I know (that is, 7th and 8th graders) do NOT have good study habits. Even if they have acquired good "grammar school" work ethic, a different type of energy seems to be needed for the higher grades. I am sure there are exceptions, but in general my adolescents are hormonal, sleepy, hungry, and seem to be in a scholastic "consolidating" mode. All mine have SEEMED capable of so much more than they actually DO at that age.
Sean is just now coming out of that stage. All four went through it. Liam, my oldest -- was SO slow and distractable at that age. It thoroughly surprised me when he went on to be such a good student in high school and college. Clare's path has been similar and Brendan's too, though in a slightly different way because both of them are more "visual spatial" whereas Liam was more auditory/sequential. Clare got strongly interested in music and theatre and Brendan developed an interest in delving into history and science type arcana.
I think that a combination of some patience and some expectations worked for this stage. I tried to work with their natural strengths and do minimums in the areas that were more challenging. I do start focusing more on "habits" and methods and less on just simple task management skills that were suitable for the younger ages. For instance, many of Sean's subjects are "short lessons" because he is an active kid whose work falls off if he has to study for too long a time period. I can see it happen when he works too long at Math, so we've broken up algebra into sections -- one to discuss, one to work alone, one to correct and review -- so that he maintains his attention span. His grades have gone from low B's to A's since we changed to this format, since before he was making silly mistakes towards the end of the work session and forgetting what he had just been doing.
Sorry to go on and on -- these are things that I am pondering since it IS after all the time of year when I'm planning for next year. I'm expecting my 12 year old Kieron to hit that adolescent slump any time but so far he hasn't, really.
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Willa
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4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: How much should I expect-teens studies?
