| Author | |
Cindy
Forum Pro
Joined: Feb 01 2005
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 235
|
| Posted: Sept 13 2005 at 5:56pm | IP Logged
|
 |
|
This is moved from the Unschooling and Self Direction Topic...
I am still a neophyte in this college thing...I did a little more digging into local colleges last night, something I have on my list to do.
We are in Texas and at this point I don't see my kids wanting to go far away for college. So I looked into Collegeboard and did some searches on likely candidates.
I found some interesting things... such as agreements between our local community college system and some selected four year universities in the region where you can have a dual enrollemnt. You can take courses at the community college and they will automatcally go toward the 4 year when you decide to go there.
Just something I had not seen before.. may be in other areas, too, if that is of interest.
I can see why they say to research early. You are right, Julie, the system is complex and seems very regional. I am looking for options for kids who do not test well and for which the SAT will be a hurdle, esp in math. The community college to 4 year university looks like a viable option to get around the test scores if necessary.
I am thinking that doing some research now might open up door for the boys when college looms closer. I typed out some ideas below. Is this a good game plan for those who have done this college thing?
-Start researching early (like Freshman year)
-Find some possible colleges based on regions, potiential interests, philosophy, etc to make a short list
-Look at their websites and begin a dialog with the guidance counsellors
-Determine what areas they are hard and fast on and which they are more flexible
-Find out what their transfer credit policy is
-See if they have any summer programs for teens, or summer only study plans with transferable credits
I am thinking if we begin researching we will have some possible paths marked out and know what it would generally take to get to each one.
Then, keep the dialog open with your child. I liked hearing about Leonie's journey with J--- suggesting he try a course, no pressure, letting his study what he liked and pick up the college experience gradually. And letting the kids see the various options available to them.
To have the college experience be a natural continuation of the homeschool learning experience would be so nice! Online courses might be nice introduction to arranging scheudules and meeting others' demands. We have had an intro with Bravewriter courses- our only outside courses so far. Even though the demands are light, it is a nice way for kids to get introduced to an outside schedule.
(Should I post this under a new topic.. like Unschooling to college?)
Any thoughts?
__________________
__________________
Cindy in Texas
It Is About The Journey
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Leonie
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2831
|
| Posted: Sept 14 2005 at 2:00am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thanks for the re-posting, Cindy.
Leonie in Sydney
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
juliecinci
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 20 2005
Location: Ohio
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 294
|
| Posted: Sept 14 2005 at 8:16am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Cindy wrote:
| This is moved from the Unschooling and Self Direction Topic... |
|
|
Thank you Cindy!
Cindy wrote:
We are in Texas and at this point I don't see my kids wanting to go far away for college. So I looked into Collegeboard and did some searches on likely candidates. |
|
|
This is something I am thinking about. I have one son (still home) who does not want to go away, if at all. And a daughter who does want to go away. Worth figuring that out early if possible.
Cindy wrote:
| I found some interesting things... such as agreements between our local community college system and some selected four year universities in the region where you can have a dual enrollemnt. You can take courses at the community college and they will automatcally go toward the 4 year when you decide to go there. |
|
|
We have that with Miami of Oxford University. They have satellite campuses that are like junior colleges. They are cheaper and the course work transfers your junior year provided you maintain a certain GPA. Kids can even move on campus. With this college, you must go this route if you homeschool. They are notoriously hostile to incoming freshmen who were homeschooled, even with parents who were alumni!
We have friends whose kids are going this route. One of the best features is the cost - save on tuition and housing.
Downside: not the "college experience" of enrolling at a four year and staying in dorms etc. I have one who might do well with this and another (daughter) who would wilt. She wants the football games and late night study parties in the dorms.
Cindy wrote:
| I can see why they say to research early. You are right, Julie, the system is complex and seems very regional. I am looking for options for kids who do not test well and for which the SAT will be a hurdle, esp in math. The community college to 4 year university looks like a viable option to get around the test scores if necessary. |
|
|
Definitely. I was just talking to another friend last night whose three kids have gone to Wheaton, Ohio State and Wheaton (competitive Christian school). She said test scores were critical for homeschoolers. It's the one way they can see how a homeschooler stacks up against his schooled peers.
One way to work on test scores, she said, was to take the tests multiple times. Her kids all took them three times each. They also prepared with a book. We have ACT/SAT test prep offered by a homeschooling mom here who does the math portion. My son improved his scores after doing a prep class.
Also, there is a preparatory test for the ACT that few people know about called the PLAN. It is not competitive like the PSAT (which you shouldn't take unless you beleive the child will score really well). The PLAN was a great indicator of final test scores. My son and daughter have done it and my oldest's PLAN score was right in line with what he eventually scored on the ACT. Check with local high schools for dates.
But you can bypass these by getting a GED and going directly to community college.
Cindy wrote:
I am thinking that doing some research now might open up door for the boys when college looms closer. I typed out some ideas below. Is this a good game plan for those who have done this college thing?
-Start researching early (like Freshman year) |
|
|
Good idea. We did this. One difficulty is that you have a hard time getting your kids oriented to college thoughts that young. But you can do preliminary research.
Cindy wrote:
-Find some possible colleges based on regions, potiential interests, philosophy, etc to make a short list
-Look at their websites and begin a dialog with the guidance counsellors
-Determine what areas they are hard and fast on and which they are more flexible |
|
|
If you can find a homeschooled student who goes there currently, you can ask better questions. We did this with Xavier. One piece of advice I got by talking directly to an enrolled formerly homeschooled student was that for smaller schools, you can go directly to the department of interest and meet professors. Ask to sit in on a class and show interest. When admissions time comes, they will sometimes act as an advocate (a letter or note) for your application. This can really help, apparently.
Cindy wrote:
-Find out what their transfer credit policy is
-See if they have any summer programs for teens, or summer only study plans with transferable credits |
|
|
And they may have what we call in Ohio PSEOP - that means you can take college classes for credit as a high school student and the state pays! My oldest didn't want to do this option, but my daughter is considering it. Each state differs but this is a great option for advanced students.
Cindy wrote:
| Then, keep the dialog open with your child. I liked hearing about Leonie's journey with J--- suggesting he try a course, no pressure, letting his study what he liked and pick up the college experience gradually. And letting the kids see the various options available to them. |
|
|
I liked this too. Last night, my son and I sat in class mesmerized by the professor's digression in Greek class. N came straight home and picked up a book to continue reading on the topic. I thought to myself, "This is education... this is how it is supposed to work."
Cindy wrote:
| To have the college experience be a natural continuation of the homeschool learning experience would be so nice! |
|
|
::Smack!:: That is my hand striking my forehead and leaving a mark! Why haven't I thought to put it this way? That would change how I saw my oldest's current situation. Okay - Julie get your good self togetha!
Thanks. 
Julie
__________________
__________________
Julie
Homeschooling five for fourteen years
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cindy
Forum Pro
Joined: Feb 01 2005
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 235
|
| Posted: Sept 14 2005 at 9:17am | IP Logged
|
|
|
juliecinci wrote:
[QUOTE=Cindy] Okay - Julie get your good self togetha!
Thanks.
Julie
__________________
|
|
|
Julie, you ARE together!! Your comments have been invaluable to me.. and your oldest's journey in particular has helped me so much as I think we will be on a similar if not identical path.
Thanks for all those commnets. They are being printed out to go in my file to ponder...
It really helps to see where others go - please keep sharing, and everyone else, too.
Thanks!
__________________
Cindy in Texas
It Is About The Journey
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cay Gibson
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 16 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5193
|
| Posted: Sept 19 2005 at 1:12pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Cindy wrote:
We are in Texas and at this point I don't see my kids wanting to go far away for college. |
|
|
Hi, neighbor! 
Same here. My oldest ds plans to go to a community college (unless he opts for the military) which will transfer credits if he changes to a regular college later.
Cindy wrote:
| You can take courses at the community college and they will automatcally go toward the 4 year when you decide to go there. |
|
|
Same here.
Cindy wrote:
| the system is complex and seems very regional. I am looking for options for kids who do not test well and for which the SAT will be a hurdle, esp in math. The community college to 4 year university looks like a viable option to get around the test scores if necessary. |
|
|
Yep. I'm in your shoes, friend. 
My oldest does not test well at all. We avoid tests at all cost. Here it is the ACT we take. He took it in June and will retake in Jan. or April in an attempt to score higher.
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cindy
Forum Pro
Joined: Feb 01 2005
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 235
|
| Posted: Sept 19 2005 at 3:45pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Cay Gibson wrote:
Yep. I'm in your shoes, friend.
My oldest does not test well at all. We avoid tests at all cost. Here it is the ACT we take. He took it in June and will retake in Jan. or April in an attempt to score higher.
|
|
|
Hi Cay!
How did the experience go? Did you ever consider just not taking it and planning to go the CC route?
__________________
Cindy in Texas
It Is About The Journey
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cindy
Forum Pro
Joined: Feb 01 2005
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 235
|
| Posted: Sept 19 2005 at 3:55pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
College-- to be or not to be?
I recently talked with a friend who is very intelletual and values higher education immensely. (I always get the jitters after talking to her--  --though I like her very much..)
She has her doctorate from a pretigious university. Her son is in a very highly rated prep school. He is in advanced *everything*- and I am happy for him b/c he is thriving.
The questions I would like to throw out for consideration is this:
How important is attendance in an upper strata university? My friend thinks the friendships you make and the ideas you exchange are critical. Plus it weeds out those who are not serious and might cause the student to waver and drop out.
My husband (who has an advanced degree and values college highly) says that in his reading of successful buisness leaders, most did not come from big name schools But may have come from Abeline University, or some such, but used the college for their needs and found what they needed. In fact he thinks having a pedigree college degree can be a liability in the professional world.
Questions--
Part 1:
So does the univeristy define the student, or does the student define the university?
Part 2:
How can we buffer our choice of university and the PUSH to get in with our faith and other considerations of our individual child?
Part 3:
Do unschoolers give up a lot of choice by taking a non-traditional route to high school studies? As homeschoolers we already will reduce the number of colleges that might be open to us, from what I have gleaned so far.
The only thing I know for sure is to keep prayer in this every step of the way.....
__________________
Cindy in Texas
It Is About The Journey
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JennGM
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17702
|
| Posted: Sept 19 2005 at 4:04pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Cindy wrote:
The question I would like to throw out for consideration is this:
How important is attendance in an upper strata university? My friend thinks the friendships you make and the ideas you exchange are critical. Plus it weeds out those who are not serious and might cause the student to waver and drop out.
My husband (who has an advanced degree and values college highly) says that in his reading of successful buisness leaders, most did not come from big name schools But may have come from Abeline University, or some such, but used the college for their needs and found what they needed. In fact he thinks having a pedigree college degree can be a liability in the professional world.
So does the univeristy define the student, or does the student define the university? |
|
|
I'll throw in my two cents (or rather my husband's two cents) on this part. He says if you want to get ahead in business (not necessarily a leader, but to get a good job), you need to go to a good school that has a good reputation for the area you are majoring. He's a CPA, worked in traditional accounting firms plus the big banking industries and now works at the SEC enforcement division.
He was and is part of the job placement process. When the resume comes in, the place they look first is the school. I can't think of a good example, but say I have a degree in accounting from Franciscan University and someone else has one from Penn State...Penn State is looked at more closely. It's unfortunate, but these places get hundreds of resumes and knowing what kind of education is coming from the schools with reputations helps them sort out what type of hire they want.
It's not cut and dried, but it does play a large role in the job hunting process.
__________________
Jennifer G. Miller
Wife to  & ds1  '03 & ds2  '07
Family in Feast and Feria
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cay Gibson
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 16 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5193
|
| Posted: Sept 19 2005 at 5:04pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Cindy wrote:
| My friend thinks the friendships you make and the ideas you exchange are critical. |
|
|
Cindy,
My teacher-aunt concurs. This is her biggest concern and objection with hsing. She believes that the ideas and discussions exchanged in a classroom cannot be replicated at home with mom.
Are we talking to our teenagers???
Cindy wrote:
| Plus it weeds out those who are not serious and might cause the student to waver and drop out. |
|
|
My dd attended a 9th grade only school last year. This year she is in advanced classes and sees the difference. She said it's so much better. The discussions are more productive, the feedback more mature, the classwork more challenging. She loves her classes!
On the other end of the spectrum, a demanding class like these would suck the life out of my boys. 
HS works for them. Enormously.
But I think I've dropped the ball. My oldest came back home for the last two years to finish his education. I was so proud of him and happy with the decision. But I've failed him with the paperwork.
This is one area where those planning skills and schedule making would have served us both. We signed up with STAA. They were far too demanding for our fly-by lifestyle. I thought they were *unschooling* friendly, but they are more classical in approach. When I mentioned all the outside activities and classes he had done (plus his work skills on the job and shop skills), the counselor suggested we just get his GED.
My dh wanted him to have a diploma. (Have I failed them both!?!?) GEDs down here are still looked upon as something that only drop-outs take. Then, again, I heard the other day that singer Jessica Simpson hsed and got her GED.
I did a sad job on the record-keeping and just got his junior year report back in the mail today. 
They are wanting more to his portfolio, more descriptions, more things turned in. How on earth can I turn in more on a child who has spent most of his *school* time in a shop!
I feel I've dropped the ball and failed my son at the same time. For the first time since he came back home, I wish I'd made him stay the final two years in school. Someone else could have done all this dreadful, confusing paperwork and hoop-jumping.
I've spoken to two hs families here in town who made their own transcripts and diplomas. They graduated their dc from their hs and not a correspondence school/academy. They have encouraged me to just print up our own transcript and graduate him from our hs. But both of their kids scored outrageously high on the ACT with top honors. Colleges were knocking on their doors and scholarships were being handed to them on silver platters.
We don't have the test-taking security. I'm hoping he makes at least a 19 on the ACT (30 is honors) to at least get TOPS. Otherwise, we'll be paying for community college.
In the meantime, I went back looking for Willa's transcript on her ds. I'm hoping I can compile a professional looking transcript and move forward. What's the use in looking back and deploring what didn't work?
But, still, I feel that I was responsible for getting his quarterly grades submitted and turned in. I did not do well and I admit it. Now where do I go with this to make it a positive experience for my son? He should not suffer because of my own lack of paper trail.
At the same time (and in the same breath  ), I have to say that the paper trail is lacking because I was trying to be supportive of his learn-hands-on versus learning-by-the-book. Who can document countless hours in the shop doing welding, carpentry, mechanics, measuring, figuring, and helping mom with countless repairs around the house?
What frustrates me even more is that we did Saxon tests and tests from Warriner's English so we'd have papers to turn in. I copied and sent all his composition papers in (which I have to say were better then ones I've read by public schooled children). But it simply was not enough. I cannot go another year like that.
The other night in the car, my dd was saying how easy Geometry was. I hated Geometry when I was her age. Her daddy asked her about the theories in geometry and how to figure them. She gave him the proper book answers, like a robot. Smart girl!
I don't know if my son remembers those theories and how to figure them, though I did send him to a Geometry class last year through our co-op. But I can guarantee you this...Corey can go outside to that shop and measure and figure and cut and put Geometry to practical use. Kayleigh admitted that she can't. She even told me, "I'm don't know what I'll do when I get out of school." She said it with a laugh but we both know what she is...a perpetual student. She learns it...and she learns it well. But she cannot practically apply it.
Then, again, perhaps she doesn't have to. She just finished researching and biblio a research paper and presentation. She did it well and all on her own. I would have to literally hold my ds's hand and walked him through the whole process.
Different personalities...different God-given talents...different paths. I can only hope that future employees notice (and appreciate) their differences.
Cindy wrote:
| My husband (who has an advanced degree and values college highly) says that in his reading of successful buisness leaders, most did not come from big name schools |
|
|
I'm thinking of all the successful business leaders who dropped out of school or college and still became a success. They all seem to follow this pattern. So why does a degree from a top college still seem so powerful?
Yet, a friend of mine has a husband who does the hiring through a cell phone company. He says that education is important and counts for so much. Like Jenn's husband mentioned, he said that diplomas from good colleges do count and that's why he insist all his girls go to the Catholic high school 9th-12th grade. And on to college after that.
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Willa
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3881
|
| Posted: Sept 19 2005 at 5:06pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Cindy wrote:
Part 3:
Do unschoolers give up a lot of choice by taking a non-traditional route to high school studies? As homeschoolers we already will reduce the number of colleges that might be open to us, from what I have gleaned so far.
The only thing I know for sure is to keep prayer in this every step of the way..... |
|
|
Yes, I agree about the prayer.
I just wanted to highlight what you said to Julie about college being a natural continuation of what you are already doing at home.
This works out in more than one way. One, the mom you mentioned with the son who's thriving in an accelerated learning environment. He'll look for a college that is a continuation of what he is doing now, and it sounds like that will make his mom happy AND him as well. God loves diversity and variety. The "test" would be if the kid DIDN'T love that environment, if he was floundering. Would the mom give up her ideals and dreams to help her son "become what he is?"
Two, the kind of kid who is unschooled but academically gifted and intellectually inclined. Like the Colfax kids who went to Harvard and Christian McKee (who ended up getting accepted to several selective colleges -- I remember reading about his fishing-fly ventures about 10 years ago and really wondering where he would end up!). There's also that article about the kids accepted into Stanford, and there are other examples too. So unschooling doesn't limit EVERYONE. And again, there is the same question: would the unschooling mom do what she could to support the child's need for structure and achievement?
The one other thing that has been in my mind a lot recently is what GK Chesterton said about every choice bringing new freedoms and new limitations. You decide to take road X, the road "less travelled by". Well, then you CAN'T do a bunch of things the people on road Y do, but you can do all the things people on road X do, and maybe road X will end up getting you faster to the final destination than road Y would have, even if you trip and fall a couple of extra times on the way. But in some ways, you never really KNOW for sure; you commit to a path because with the information you have at hand you feel it's the best one, and then you go from there.
All those kids at public school or wherever, they will NOT get to have the life a homeschooled kid has. The structured homeschool kid will have a different teenage experience than the unschooled kid does. I think there are some sacrifices and some benefits from any of the choices. But in some ways, that's how it goes. We can't have our cake and eat it.
The only completely wrong choice (for me, and it may be different for others) is to make decisions based on fear and anxiety, or to let those things drain the joy from my choices. Oh, it's such a weakness of mine to do that! -- I struggle with it every day. But I know it always puts me on a wrong track, or makes the track LOOK wrong even when it isn't. Oh, and the other wrong choice of mine is the one about comparing my kids with others and feeling they are "missing something" by not having one gift or another opportunity. That road's a wrong one too, for me, and I'm tempted to detour into it almost hourly.
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
juliecinci
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 20 2005
Location: Ohio
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 294
|
| Posted: Sept 19 2005 at 6:09pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Hi Cay.
I hear you about the "kicking yourself" for not being a detail paper trail kind of gal. I'm like that too.
One of the difficulties is that I find myself comparing my non-traditional kid to traditional kids. That's such a mistake! Why would you want your son (speaking to myself now too) to go to a top tier college or to a four year college that must have a transcript when his bent and skills lie in all those tangibles from working in a shop? Doesn't a trade school or community college sound more like the ticket?
And can't he transfer to a four year school after two years in community college if this is really the route he wants?
Testing does clarify one thing. It reveals whether or not your child is a likely candidate for scholarship money. If he isn't in that category, then what is the advantage to going to a four year school from freshman year when he isn't inclined that way (toward in class academics) to begin with?
He could work and go to school parttime - honing his skills in the trade and taking courses so that he can eventually trasnfer should he want to.
I don't know if this is even feasible or interesting, but I think if it were me, I'd skip the paperwork, make a homemade diploma and have him go to the local JC while he works. That will eliminate the GED, transcripts and the ACT!
Julie
__________________
Julie
Homeschooling five for fourteen years
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cindy
Forum Pro
Joined: Feb 01 2005
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 235
|
| Posted: Sept 19 2005 at 8:06pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
juliecinci wrote:
Hi Cay.
II don't know if this is even feasible or interesting, but I think if it were me, I'd skip the paperwork, make a homemade diploma and have him go to the local JC while he works. That will eliminate the GED, transcripts and the ACT!
Julie |
|
|
Cay... I don't have a lot of time right now, but you might want to look at Clonlara. They make transcripts in the 11th hour (or 12th year) by looking what the child DID do and not what they didn't. They can take a box full of stuff, help discern where they spent their time and create a transcript. I have not gone through such a process, but have read and heard a lot about it. They have helped me to see half full vs half empty.
Julie is right, too... if we try to push our child in a mold that is not them, they will not be happy.
But I think we as parents rightly, want to make sure we gave our child every opportunity to find out who they are. I think you have done that very well.
I have seen many young people in a suit who are miserable and out of touch with who they are and their faith and their place in the world. And I have seen a lot of very grounded carpenters.
I do think college is over-rated (this from a MUST go to college person ) But we must look at who our kids are, too.
Ok.. begining to ramble.. I will stop. More later-----
__________________
Cindy in Texas
It Is About The Journey
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cay Gibson
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 16 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5193
|
| Posted: Sept 19 2005 at 8:19pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Cindy wrote:
Cay... I don't have a lot of time right now, but you might want to look at Clonlara. They make transcripts in the 11th hour (or 12th year) by looking what the child DID do and not what they didn't. ----- |
|
|
But they're SO expensive! 
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cindy
Forum Pro
Joined: Feb 01 2005
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 235
|
| Posted: Sept 19 2005 at 8:39pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Cay Gibson wrote:
Cindy wrote:
Cay... I don't have a lot of time right now, but you might want to look at Clonlara. They make transcripts in the 11th hour (or 12th year) by looking what the child DID do and not what they didn't. ----- |
|
|
But they're SO expensive! |
|
|
Yes. But I know some people who use them the first year to get their bearings then do it themselves. Or use them the senior year only to create the package if they feel they can't. I think most of us *can* but sometimes it is worth it to have someone help who has done this for 20 years and seen everything.
I think it is child by child, year by year. And if it will give one the peace of mind they may need for at least one year, then it is worth it. But it is case by case.
I think it might be more helpful for kids that have special circumstance... gifted, fast track.. or special with unique gifts that are not as measureable. And they have a beautiful philosophy about children. Ala John Holt. Not specifially Catholic, but one can work around it and they do have Catholic advisors if you ask.
Just some thoughts.. very individual. But could be worth talking to them to see if they are a fit-- again family by family! I used to think I could do it all and took it as a personal vendetta. Now I use what I can when it seems right. And, lots of prayer....
__________________
Cindy in Texas
It Is About The Journey
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cindy
Forum Pro
Joined: Feb 01 2005
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 235
|
| Posted: Sept 20 2005 at 7:14am | IP Logged
|
|
|
jenngm67 wrote:
I'll throw in my two cents (or rather my husband's two cents) on this part. He says if you want to get ahead in business (not necessarily a leader, but to get a good job), you need to go to a good school that has a good reputation for the area you are majoring. He's a CPA, worked in traditional accounting firms plus the big banking industries and now works at the SEC enforcement division.
|
|
|
Hi Jenn!
I can relate to your husband's opinion. I was part of the corporate world and was hired myself and also helped hire people. And relied on my degrees-- I think it 'proved' something to the potential employer that if you made it successfully through this school, you could succed at their company. And there is truth to that.
But, I wonder how limited this scenario is. For example, the graduating college and GPA really only apply strongly to the first job. When you have a fresh college grad, perhaps the school is more important than if you are changing jobs later on?
I wonder if you dh has any thoughts on that. Are we dis-proprtionatly looking at the school when it actually affects the first job more than subsequent?
I know as I went to my second job, they looked more at what I accomplished in my first than my graduating school.
Again, crops up the question of the *real* reason for college, and for what we do in the high school years.
It seems it is twofold:
1) What the person really needs to learn and affect their life and personal education
2) What we need to show the world for an outside 'ticket' to opportunity.
Are we too focused on #2? I know that was all I focused on in my high school and college years. So am trying to help our family find the balance now.
On the other hand, in my quest for grades and degree I challenged myself immensely. Would I have done that otherwise? Would our kids?
Any ideas?
__________________
Cindy in Texas
It Is About The Journey
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cindy
Forum Pro
Joined: Feb 01 2005
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 235
|
| Posted: Sept 20 2005 at 7:45am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Willa.. Your posts are chock full of things I want to respond to! You really make me think!
WJFR wrote:
I just wanted to highlight what you said to Julie about college being a natural continuation of what you are already doing at home....
... Would the mom give up her ideals and dreams to help her son "become what he is?" |
|
|
Yes, Willa. I think that question is a crucial one.
WJFR wrote:
There's also that article about the kids accepted into Stanford, and there are other examples too. So unschooling doesn't limit EVERYONE. And again, there is the same question: would the unschooling mom do what she could to support the child's need for structure and achievement? |
|
|
As the definition of unschooling is further defined, I tend to hold onto that of 'giving your child what they each need'. If you have a child who is academicly gifted and needs structure, then that is what you give them. To me the question is how do we as parents read what they need? When we asked Pat Farenga that, he said, connect by building on their strengths.
This tells me that is a child is not academicly inclined then forcing it is not productive, but instead manage it. But at the same time build on the positive-- like Cay has done with her oldest son's bent toward hands-on vocation.
In theory, unschooling shouldn't limit anyone in terms of their private development if the parents and subesequently the child is tuned into who they are and how they learn.
OK- Here is a scenario if you will indulge:
I know a 17yo girl who just graduated from a suburbian public high school with ok grades. She is not excited about any subject she took. Her favorite activity all through high school was to IM her friends, dress like Brittany and hang. She didn't have the benefit of faith or modeling learning to a great degree.
But, she was accepted into a fairly well known state school. (She went there b/c a freind did). She has the transcript to get in. She had taken tests her whole life, so did ok on that.
What if she had had the homeschool/unschool life? The scenario would be different: She might have developed a passion or interest since all her hours were not spent in school. Taking it further, she might not have had to complete course 'standard' work at home in subjects she did not have an aptitude for, but instead had the time to get more into, say, fashion and found a real interest.
Now, at 17 she might not have a 'well balanced' typical transcript (though I bet Clonlara would help her see all that she DID do in subject areas), but she knows what she likes and is good at. She might not make it into the state school, but she would have sense that her education is her own. That may pay off later in life? If she knew what she wanted to do, had learned what it takes to get there, she might pave her own way.
I don't know. some things I am weighing. Any thoughts?
WJFR wrote:
All those kids at public school or wherever, they will NOT get to have the life a homeschooled kid has. The structured homeschool kid will have a different teenage experience than the unschooled kid does. I think there are some sacrifices and some benefits from any of the choices. But in some ways, that's how it goes. We can't have our cake and eat it. |
|
|
Willa.. I just wrote my 'essay' above and then see you addressed it here, too! Yes. We must choose and can't have the high and the low road.
To me the crux is my responsibility to my child. I feel I am their mentor. I know things they don't know. Such as, if you work hard now, get good SATs you will have opportunities like I did. But, I also know that I was prideful about my degree and it kept me from knowing who I truly was for many years. It made my conversion harder in some ways. I don't want to push my kids on the path that their degrees define who they are.
That is what I pray for. to know how to lead them.
But, eventually I hope they take this education on themselves. When it becomes *their* goal, then I have done my job-- and really become an advisor.
For the child that is not so goal-oriented.. it is harder. Maybe if we spend our time helping them know themselves, build on their strenghts and pray for guidance, that is enough?
Let them know the options. Slowly as they get older. Naturally. Give stories of choices others have made. Their successes and struggles. I know all my college/career decisions were made in a vacuum of sorts. It was not connected and was not real, really.
[/QUOTE]
WJFR wrote:
The only completely wrong choice (for me, and it may be different for others) is to make decisions based on fear and anxiety, or to let those things drain the joy from my choices. Oh, it's such a weakness of mine to do that! -- I struggle with it every day. But I know it always puts me on a wrong track, or makes the track LOOK wrong even when it isn't. Oh, and the other wrong choice of mine is the one about comparing my kids with others and feeling they are "missing something" by not having one gift or another opportunity. That road's a wrong one too, for me, and I'm tempted to detour into it almost hourly.
|
|
|
Oh, Willa, I think many of us struggle with this. To me it tells me how much you really love your kids and want the best for them.
Spiritual reading and adoration help me the most in this area. And if I can stop myself when the worry starts and feel the Lord's presense. He knows I am limited. He also knows I am doing my best. And on days we are weak, he knows that, too.
Can I share something from the Saintly Solutions (by Fr. Joseph Esper) I am currently reading... the chapter on Anxiety?
"St. Paul of the Cross advises us: :When you notice that your heart is moving away even the tiniest bit from that inner peace that comes from the living faith experience of the divine presence in the soul, stop and examine what the cause of this anxiety might be. Maybe it is some worry concerning your house or children, or some situation you cannot change at present. Bury it in God's loving will." Remind yourself that nothing can happen without the Lord's knowledge and premission--and as a loving Father, He will never abandon or forget you."
I have to constantly shore myself up with reading such as this, Willa.
__________________
Cindy in Texas
It Is About The Journey
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Kelly
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 21 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1211
|
| Posted: Sept 20 2005 at 7:52pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Cay,
Check out the NARHS website. They take your info/paperwork etc. and convert it into reputable highschool credit hours. Once you achieve x number of highschool credits, they issue you a true-blue highschool diploma. They are apparently much cheaper than Clonlara, and people I've spoken with about them have been VERY happy with their service. I believe it stands for North Atlantic Regional High School.
Kelly, very far from the North Atlantic, but liking the NARHS concept, in FL
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
4Real Forums : High School Years and Beyond
Topic: Unschooling (or thereabouts) to College
