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Cheryl
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| Posted: Jan 02 2007 at 7:21pm | IP Logged
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I told him that you ladies would be able to help him out.
Ok here goes....I'm worried about our 8 year old son. He is our oldest. He should be equivalent to 2nd grade in conventional school. He seems to be behind pretty much all the way around in his studies. He has very little interest in learning math, reading or writing. He is very creative which is great but I think most of us would agree reading, writing and math are necessary to a creative life.
We have tried to be more strict with him at times but he still doesn't respond. It is as if he is shutting down. I wonder possibly out of fear. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. My memories of school were just that. Fear!!! I shut down all the time and got bad grades in school because of it. When I got one on one help from teachers I seemed to do better. Very well actually (That's why I was initially attracted to my wife homeschooling). When I grew up and got into my last few years of college and finally let the fear go, school and learning became very easy. The dilemma in my mind is, if he is a chip of the old block, even though I didn't do that well in school when I was behind or didn't understand the teacher and principal threats, and more so, the potential peer ridicule did wonders to get me motivated.
How long do we continue homeschooling him? I wouldn't want to wait too long and it be too late for him to catch up. I am probably just a paranoid father who still gets stuck on the social thing.
I would love insight. And moms if you can drag your dh's in on this that would be cool.
Thanks in advance,
Bob, Cheryl's DH
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Cheryl
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Mom to Matthew 13, Joseph 11, Sarah 10, Rachel 6, Hannah almost 4 and Mary 1
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Willa
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Ah, Bob, I asked my husband for his Dad viewpoint on your questions. His thoughts were (please excuse my paraphrases):
----Moving through the grades in public schools doesn't always mean mastery. In the homeschool, what the children learn they really learn.
---Who defines what is grade-level? Couldn't "they" be wrong? (the point being that sometimes the conventional grade scopes and sequences are somewhat arbitrary -- it's perfectly possible for a "late bloomer" to excel in the long term if he's given time and space and freedom from fear).
---What's really important in what you learn in your school years? If anyone looks back on a given week in second grade year, what do they remember that they actually learned? Even a given week in high school -- what do you really remember?
--I forgot to ask him about socialization. I know from hearing him talk to friends and relatives that he thinks socialization can be a lot more "real" and useful for future life outside of school walls.
Hope this helps give you one dad's viewpoint. We have 7 children and the oldest is 20 and a sophomore in college. Our youngest is four. 
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Willa
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Take Up and Read
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Tina P.
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| Posted: Jan 02 2007 at 10:13pm | IP Logged
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Bob,
My husband worries like you do. "How's he doing in school today?" "What did you do all day?" "What would his grades be if he were in school?" "How does he measure up?"
I can't answer a whole lot of that. So much of our learning is reading books aloud and silently, thinking, playing games (math games are tons of fun) and conversing. Every once in a while we get inspired to do a project, go on a long explore, or cover our walls with creative arts.
Part of our learning too is life itself. We plan grocery lists/meals. We budget on-the-fly (meaning when we go to the grocery store and see a can of tuna for $2.58 and another for $1.49, we discuss what the difference might be (most often just the label) and buy the less expensive brand). We try to save our environment by recycling and going out on errands sparingly, and when we do, doing *all* the errands we need to do in one trip. And when we have another baby in the house, we learn all over how to care for the little one.
First boys seem slow. I realize that this is a huge generalization, but this is what I am experiencing in my family. I think you'll be surprised at the insights he has if you let him ask questions instead of asking him "What did you learn today?" Threats and ridicule don't work. Please don't subject him to that. Some time alone with you just being pals might help. My first born boy is starting to show a lot of promise and he's 12.5.
He's really young. Reading and writing, while they ARE necessary, need to be inspired. Does he have any solid interests? Could you inspire him to read about and then narrate on what HE is interested in?
My vote: homeschool him for as long as you can. Part of the reason I homeschool my children is to keep them from being subjected to teachers who don't care and peers who jeer at and ridicule. Being in a loving environment is much more conducive to learning than being stuck for 8 or 9 hours of the day in an institution. The lessons I learned from my family are much firmer in my mind than anything I learned in school.
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mary
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| Posted: Jan 02 2007 at 10:48pm | IP Logged
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bob, my kids are almost exactly the same ages as yours and the same genders. my first son was also slow to take off with reading. when i stopped pushing, he bloomed. suddenly, he's carrying books along in the car to read. that said, if you truly believe your son is struggling and not just moving at his own pace, then have you considered having him evaluated? if you think he is shutting down, have you considered backing off for a while and seeing what happens?
with regard to him being behind his peers, i'm wondering how this is determined. do you have him assessed annually? this is something my dh asked for when we began homeschooling. it reassures him to see test scores. (this also fulfills our state's hsing requirement.) and each year, i see my kids weaknesses and think i'm not doing enough. then i get test results back and see that he's keeping up with his peers and often ahead of them.
it's clear that you love your kids and want the best education for them. hope you find some answers that bring you peace.
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Sarah
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| Posted: Jan 03 2007 at 9:51am | IP Logged
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Bob,
I didn't get a chance to read the comments ahead of me so I may be repeating same ideas.
I have a son who is 8 who is extremely creative but is not reading and writing. I started him as I did the other son ahead of him (10) at age 5, so technically if you count the years ds8 should be in 3rd greade. There is NO WAY he comes close to what the schools define as a 3rd grader. This has led me to analyze what grade levels mean anyway. I have come to the conclusion that schools need to define grades for grouping purposes, but so many of those children fall below or above what is defined as mastery.
I am ashamed to say that I became very uptight with ds8, yelling, threatening, etc when he wouldn't complete his work. He began to shut down, seem unhappy with me, and we got no where. His approach of life drives me crazy at times. Ds10 mastered reading and writing in Kindergarten and is very quick with language type subjects which is even worse for ds8 to be in the shadow.
I've finally come to understand through this forum that ds8 is going to progress at his own pace, gently led my me, and for him to be happy and learn well there has to be tons of time to build, dream, dress in costumes, draw and whatever.
Ds10 might be a brain surgeon someday and ds8 might be an engineer or whatever, but I can see now that God made different people there and He has a future planned for them that is different and thus their education will be different in the paths they choose.
Bob, you are not the only one that looks at your kids who can barely read and starts to feel like, "Let's go! Hurry! read, write. C'mon what's your problem? I'm going to have to put you in school, etc. . . There are times when I look at ds8 in panic thinking that if I did put him in school he'd be in 1st grade. One of the worst things I did was to look at lists of what ds8 SHOULD be doing. This can really start to get a parent worried. I would suggest looking at curriculums as a guide, but don't pin it down to a certain level. For ds8 he does things at levels K-2. Writing for a boy of that age can be VERY hard. It will come. . .
I've told him that he is not what the schools consider a third grader, then I also told him that I don't count grades anymore. When he's 18 he can go to college. In the meantime he'll plug away at the subjects at his own level, with direction from me. We'll "advance" him gradewise on paper for the State and I told him to tell people he's in 3rd grade when they ask because yearwise he IS and its too hard to explain to the lady in the grocery store that we don't do grade levels, but here he is just "John who learns every day of the year."
Don't worry, if you could see how little an 8 year old is. You look at him and he seems big, but there are so many years when it will all fall in place. If he's shutting down, I would seriously back off. For us, just backing off meant ds8 started to tell time himself (he never look like he was listening when I'd explain it to him) and I see him trying to sound things out. I see him looking at books more.
It will come. . .
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cathhomeschool
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My dh thinks that you shouldn't worry too much since your son is still so young.
I want to add that each child has strengths and weaknesses, and the beauty of homeschooling is that you can tailor "school" to fit a child. It's amazing how much they can learn and absorb and "catch up" once their interest is sparked.
Our second son was a late reader. He had NO interest in reading until his older brother (who read everything he could get his hands on) told him about The Wizard of Oz. For some reason, that particular book sparked his imagination and he wanted to read it for himself. He worked very hard at it and took forever to finish the book, but he did it. Then he struggled through The Hobbit. Now he is 11 and still doesn't devour books like my older son, but he knows how to read and reads what he loves without being pushed. (And I had tried pushing and gently suggesting and reading along with him -- all to little avail.) He is very imaginative and loves crafts and hands-on projects. So I try to use that interest to our schooling advantage. I incorporate lapbooks, scrapbook style narrations, chalk pastel illustrations and crafts of all kinds into our unit studies. I also rely heavily on books-on-tape (in the car) and read-alouds from great literature in the evenings. My older son, who isn't as hands-on, is assigned more reading and fewer projects. Our second son chooses more projects and reads less. Now I won't lie and say that my children love school. They would definitely rather be up in a tree or playing with legos! But I do think that they learn more this way than they otherwise would.
What math program are you using? It's certainly a necessary skill (short lessons are required here, like it or not), but some programs are more hands-on. We use Math-u-See and Jacobs' Human Endeavor.
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1floridamom
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Bob, I'll see if I can get dh's specific opinions, but I wanted to share something that I found helpful. First of all what you describe is right up our alley! My oldest, in particular, would run for the hills when he smelled a "schooly" lesson coming.  We have since changed our focus and tend more towards unschooling, but they have all needed or asked for certain things along the way. Once the pressure was off, in fact, my oldest finished three levels of Singapore Math in a couple of months with no insistance from me. 
One thing that I did recently, which I found extremely helpful, was take the Mercy Academy Learning Assessment with each of my boys. I don't know about the curricular suggestions at the end, but the six-point evaluation of their learning styles was a real eye-opener. It is $20 per child, but I found it well worth that. I haven't seen anything like it in any book that I have bought or checked out from the library.
Another thing that we have tried to focus on with our boys is physical labor.  It's handy that my dh works from home in a labor-intensive job; he rents high-end golf clubs to conventions/groups. Those clubs don't clean themselves! He has employees, but whenever we can, we get the bigger kids out to help. They need purpose. We've also focused a lot on household chores for this same reason. It isn't perfect, but some of the things that have to do with personality or learning style are among the reasons why we homeschool. They wouldn't fit in the cookie-cutter world of institutional learning.  And it's the mom's job to say that's okay; it's the dad's job to help them be men anyway. 
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Tina P.
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| Posted: Jan 03 2007 at 10:44am | IP Logged
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cathhomeschool wrote:
| And I had tried pushing and gently suggesting and reading along with him -- all to little avail. |
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This reminds me of the time I force-fed The Moffats to my now 12 yo (I think he was 10 at the time). This child of mine gets stuck in book series ruts. He likes the Bobbsey Twins, Hank the Cow Dog, and Boxcar Children books. He actually has some of these for sale, and Encyclopedia Brown. I wanted him to break out of the rut. I told him he had to read a chapter a day for three days. On about the fifth day, he had finished the book and asked if there were any more like it! Sure enough, he read the whole series. I love to introduce books to my children via read-alouds. As Willa mentioned in another thread, we go through seasons in our homeschooling when this is just about ALL we can do (besides seatwork).
cathhomeschool wrote:
| What math program are you using? It's certainly a necessary skill (short lessons are required here, like it or not), but some programs are more hands-on. We use Math-u-See and Jacobs' Human Endeavor. |
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I thought Jacobs was a high school curriculum. Hmmm ... how do you incorporate it? My son didn't like Math-U-See.  I've been through a few math programs. Sometimes I think that is why my children struggle.
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cathhomeschool
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Tina P. wrote:
| I thought Jacobs was a high school curriculum. Hmmm ... how do you incorporate it? My son didn't like Math-U-See. I've been through a few math programs. Sometimes I think that is why my children struggle. |
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Switching math programs has been a temptation of mine too, but what I've made myself do instead is just review (or go back several chapters) when someone is struggling. With my oldest, I had to go back 3 times with multiplication and division of fractions, re-covering half the book. But now he really gets it!
Jacobs' books are high school level, but Human Endeavor is a general mathematics book that can be used earlier. We are going through it VERY slowly as a supplement. We read a lesson together and then work on the practice sets a little at a time, making neat discoveries as we go. It is more of a thinking skills exercise for us and we keep it fun and low pressure.
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humanaevitae
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In my past life I had been a first grade teacher so I was very anxious when my oldest showed very little interest in reading. The more anxious I got the more he shut down.
We took long breaks. I didn't push because I wanted him to love reading and I found myself losing my temper whenever I tried to teach him. However he seemed to be making progress despite the lack of formal lessons.
The summer between 2 and 3rd grade he started reading beginning readers. He moved completely at his own pace until he was hooked on reading. Then we started spelling/phonics which he enjoyed.
He is now in 4th gr/10yo old and he LOVES reading! I am so happy he hadn't been in a formal school and forced to keep up with expectations. I KNOW it would have killed any enjoyment of learning. He would probably have been in special ed for reading which would have affected his confidence. Through homeschooling he was sheltered from realizing how different he was from other kids. He was only compared to himself and thus found his slow progress motivating.
Most people will learn to read but few develop a love for learning. This love will help a student out more in the long run than early/average reading skills in the beginning.
Zane just started piano lessons which he wasn't thrilled about but he accepted that they are just part of his music curriculum. His teacher has been very complimentary about his attitude compared to his peers. Again, he didn't want to take piano but his teacher says he comes into each lesson eager to show her what he has worked on and doesn't have a lazy attitude.
Zane is still "behind" compared to his peers but he is quickly catching up. Anyone who loves to read will quickly surpass many peers in high school history or english!
Why does your son balk at his lessons? Is he a perfectionist where it bothers him when he doesn't understand it right away? Is he overselmed? Just a lazier attitude? Teaching styles not meshing?
I would keep lessons short. (In our case we only covered a small math lesson and a small reading lesson until 3.5grade.) Be encouraging and celebrate any progress even if it is still on a first grade level!
In my son's case, peer pressure would have been horrible. He is sensitive and would have felt like an idiot as he struggled to read. It would have changed his whole outlook on learning. I am so happy I was able to give him the space he needed to develop confidence as he perservered at his own level.
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Tina P.
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humanaevitae wrote:
He is now in 4th gr/10yo old and he LOVES reading! I am so happy he hadn't been in a formal school and forced to keep up with expectations. I KNOW it would have killed any enjoyment of learning. He would probably have been in special ed for reading which would have affected his confidence. Through homeschooling he was sheltered from realizing how different he was from other kids. He was only compared to himself and thus found his slow progress motivating.
Most people will learn to read but few develop a love for learning. |
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I wonder how different he is, considering all the responses Bob received. I wonder how many boys in particular who are in school are just pushed along from grade to grade, just barely passing, so that the teachers don't have to "handle" the special needs children. I wonder how many "special needs" children there are out there who are *not* receiving the loving, go-at-your-own-pace attention they need. I know my husband never cared to read. He has a bunch of David McCullough history books that asked me to find for him. They still look like new.  I wish I could encourage him like I can encourage my kids, mostly by leaving them to figure things out themselves. My 7 yob learned to read ENTIRELY without my help. My now 9 yob just started reading when he was 8. He fell in love with those Discovery history books. He wants to dive into Redwall now.
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Erin
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Bob
I asked my dh this morning as he was heading out the door so I apologize in not getting him to write himself.
Dh's main comment was at this age you want to foster a LOVE of learning. To not place pressure on your son (nor on your wife) and he will pick up much knowledge and skills if you can foster a LOVE of learning. Emphasise the world around him. Focus on his strengths and go from there. Discover his interests and use them as jumping off points. Board games are a good way to develop the 3R's in an interesting way.
From myself I would like to add that you mention your final year of college being a success besides the point you already mention would I be correct in guessing that for some reason the content appealed to you?
Eight is very young to be concerned for my boys they never seem to click in the three Rs until they are nine. That is the year they take off in their reading, every child is unique though by girls were much earlier and I would have saved my boys (and myself) much heartache if I'd realised this.
Maybe you should go spend a day in a local school a observe it all may not be as you think.
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ALmom
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I would reconfirm a couple of things from the above posts:
Boys tend to mature later in the reading, writing and fine motor skills department, in general. This means they are not always ready for this at the typical age. When I was growing up, it was very common for parents to start male children one year later than their age. I know my mom did that with my twin brothers.
There is a wide range of normal and many feel that teaching formally before age 9 or 10 can promote visual problems (Dr. Moore is of this school and many of his books are eye opening). Children who begin behind often outpace those who were early readers.
Physical activity is important for all but especially for boys who seem to need it in order for their brains to function. I do tend to short lessons, followed by basketball, or some sort of physical labor/ play. This is also better for the eyes!
Now, to add a few more personal experiences. Our 4 boys (ages from 4 to almost 13) have all learned more of their math concepts by working alongside dad in the house maintenance and in his hobbies. It provides informal schooling and dad bonding. They are learning quite a bit long before we are schooling in a formal way. My dh has had them help him measure for woodworking projects, calculate for replacement of flooring and he teaches them how to use the tools, etc. as they are able. They help him trouble shoot wiring problems and on and on. He has informal conversations at the dinner table (many I don't completely understand) that happen to allow the boys to shine since they have had more experience in the EE field helping dad. They also learned some math helping me cook as toddlers, and in playing any games with 2 dice.
My boys avoid doing any writing like the plague for a long time. It ahs been worse than pulling teeth at times. The boys learned a lot of math facts orally long before they ever would have filled out pages in a worksheet. But when it came time to "do" more formal math, we had to be sensitive to place them where they needed to be - not at the babyish texts for younger children, yet at a point where they would be successful with reasonable effort. There is nothing like success that feeds further study and interest.
The boys all tend to prefer as much independence as possible. My oldest in particular hates to be "taught" by me. He likes to be treated more grown up - general assignments that are to the point, and without extraneous illustrations/pictures/manipulatives. He finishes what he is able, I correct for errors and then he finds his mistakes and we move on. If a concept stumps him, conversation asking him his reasoning usually brings out the best. Now, granted, this boy is much older now - but he has always been like this and learning to read and write was a bit trickier as it, by the fact that he could not already read, required that I have more direct interaction. He just seemed to resist this by nature. I did find that the more I could let him go off on his own, the better. If we were working on phonics - I would let him work on learning a few sounds after they were introduced - or practice a certain letter, etc. until he felt ready - and then he would show me.
I do think that there is natural competition among siblings in the same household (not anything fed or encouraged and not coupled with any kind of ridicule or criticism). You do not need a classroom for your children to have this natural push to try a bit harder. If they don't have siblings, they'll eventually find it in friends, conversations, letter writing. Criticism or ridicule for the slower child always seems damaging, but encouragement, well-earned compliments, etc. helped. The children are smart enough to notice discrepencies without anything being pointed out. My role is to teach character to both - a certain humble appreciation of the gifts and responsibilites that go with their abilities. One son hated for anyone else in the family to watch him work. I think he needed a bit of privacy in order to build up confidence as academics have always been hard for him. If someone was listening in or looking over his shoulder, he'd simply shut down. He went off with audio tapes, flashcards, etc. and studied somewhere by himself - and made forward progress. I don't hold back the younger brother that is a whiz at all things academic but I do not put it in the older boys face, and I do try to form the younger child in humility and have to teach him that his exuberant enthusiasm is great but it must be phrased in a way that does not seem to be bragging or taunting. I avoid comparisons in private and in public. I look for ways to help the older, more struggling child find something that helps him shine. I do think it is important for character development that the older have opportunities to teach the younger something - and the younger have some chances to learn from his older brother. So, for instance, we have allowed our older to sign up for a coop class using mindstorms. The younger could probably do it - and will learn very quickly on his own whereas the older will have a chance to be less frustrated with the assistance of this male teacher (a friend of ours), We are not doing it to hold the younger boy back - as we expect our older boy to pass on what he learns. My guess is that it won't take too long for the younger to be whizzing through it and the older will be plodding along working extra hard but both will have benefitted academically and character wise. The older child, while academically having to work hard, is learning a lot about diligence and perseverence - which in the end may be the more valuable lesson. I do try to compliment on diligence in his hearing. A lack of confidence could be the biggest roadblock to his ultimate ability to learn. The hardest part for a child that struggles is how obvious it is that they are behind. It is discouraging. My dd who was my 2nd child picked up on how far ahead others were simply by writing letters to someone. She started calling herself dumb (we had a totally ungraded classroom where I used materials that did not identify grade level and she was the younger of 2 at the time so there was nothing to have highlighted that she was "behind" - she still figured it out) - she certainly didn't need anyone else to call her attention to it and she was just discovering it about the time we realized there was something else going on. What this meant is that her own confidence did not suffer to the degree that it could have. Once I was convinced that there was a vision problem, I shared that with her. She thought I was crazy, but there was a certain relief, too. I was right, her vision was corrected and she didn't have a lot of pyschological baggage to overcome from years of being taunted, ridiculed or even calling herself dumb. Her vision therapist told us that this child would have been placed in a learning disabled classroom in the school system.
It is also very normal for a student to seem to be just creeping along, and then suddenly make leaps when you least expect it. I watch for signs of utter frustration and offer encouragement but otherwise try to simply provide a framework, assignments that we have planned together, etc. This does not mean that I don't insist on certain things that he may not care for as much - but we do talk about all the plans and taylor them to the child in question.
In our family, we also discovered the very real possibility of learning related visual problems. Of our 6 children, 5 have had vision problems of varying degrees - some quite severe. When our 2nd dd was almost 10 and still struggling, we realized at some point that this was not just a situation of needing time to mature her systems. There really was something wrong. I am not for labeling children - but an accurate diagnosis for the purpose of learning how to help the child and not just to give excuses or pigeon hole the student is not a label. I made long observations of the child before we went in to see anyone - and I looked for something to explain all the symptoms (some so subtle we didn't notice them until we were consciously observing the child). It turns out that our children had correctable vision problems and with appropriate therapy, their challenge was corrected and they very rapidly "caught up". Our oldest son who still struggles does have some vision problems that seem to be more intransigent, so we try to balance expecting appropriate levels of work so the eye-hand doesn't just keep slipping - but also knowing that at some point the eyestrain is too much and we substitute other ways of learning the same things, while continuing to try and correct the vision.
All of our children, except our oldest, started "school" later than most and took much longer to learn to read and write. One child was at least 10 before she was reading and this same child was way behind in math as well (too many problems (more than 5) on a page shut her visual system down and we were way more focused on getting vision corrected than math and reading). This same child could not concentrate for more than 5 minutes in a day. She is the one that would have been labeled in the public school. This child is now an advanced 9th grader and working at or above grade level in all areas. She is certainly not learning disabled and she does not have concentration problems anymore (nothing outside the normal, anyways).
I have started to have all of our children tested by a behavioral optometrist prior to school entry (if problems are found, we do the therapy before beginning school). This is so much like a normal eye exam as far as the children are concerned (and our insurance covered the eye exam like it was no different than your typical exam) that it wasn't something that really had to be a big deal. The important thing was to find someone who knew what they were doing (fellow from the college of optometry, vision development is a definite plus) and has therapy in house that he supervises. Be sure they test for more than just near-sightedness and far sightedness. Ours tested for suppression, eye movement control, ability to converge and to accomodate and a whole range of vision processing problems. We did have to request this specific exam as opposed to the normal eye exam - and fill out a history of types of school problems. It was well worth it for us - and as far as the children were concerned, we were doing the "same thing" as the schools who screen for vision and hearing upon school entry (though their tests are typically simply acuity type things and would have missed our dd problems as she had 20/20 vision but major vision problems).
I will say that teaching a child with vision problems is a real challenge to the parent teacher (but homeschooling is even more important here). I really began to lose my confidence in my ability to teach and often said if it had been my first, I'd have just chalked it up to my failure as a teacher. We tried everything - phonics based, manipulative/Montissori, unschooling, reading and re-reading a single book while pointing out words, etc. I have a houseful of different ways to teach math and reading and we even tried completely backing off for a year. Nothing seemed to work until the vision was corrected. But if my children could catch up (and it took us a long time to find a diagnosis and begin correcting the problem) then there is no need for panic. I rely a great deal on my dh encouragement because at times you will find yourself noticing the same things - some child several years younger than your own are reading,writing and shining and your child is struggling and you begin to second guess what you might have done differently to have made life a bit easier for your child. But, of course, we can always improve and we have to have the same patience with ourselves as teachers that we strive to have with our children as students while not overlooking real ways to improve or excusing ourselves for lack of effort! I can not be an objective evaluator of myself and I depend on my husband to give me very real and honest feedback about how things are going - and encouraging and complimenting me, as well. I couldn't make it without this.
Look at the next few years of homeschooling as an opportunity to really learn how your son learns best, taylor programs to this and see. It doesn't hurt to make sure there aren't any vision impediments. Just try not to compare with what is out there - slow, gentle, etc. I look for forward progress. Are we learning something that stays with us! Most elementary programs are simply repeating the same, numerous concepts over and over again. Look through a first, second and third grade textbook and you'll see what I'm saying. It doesn't matter that you chose to go a bit slower, but learn it more deeply. Then you can skip some of the repetition later and focus on new stuff - which is more interesting anyways. My dd that I mentioned above has just started complaining about her Algebra I - it is too boring and just repeating what she learned last year - so I'm letting her fly through the book just doing what practice she needs in the new concepts, testing and will just move on. This child was doing 4th grade math, 3 years ago (when she finally learned division and fractions)and we seemed to bog down. Then we quickly found her bored with the next level and she tested to her grade level in placement tests so we just started there and then proceeded on to Algebra. She tests well above average for her grade in standardized tests, does not have any problems with the concepts now and so I presume between normal life math, her 3 textbooks and finding what she needed to grasp written materials, we are fine and all the years of elementary age panic on my part wasn't really helpful, though being a normal parent, I suppose it was unavoidable. Homeschooling still does sometimes feel like a great big experiment and if your child doesn't happen to be excelling academically, it is tempting to think the problems are with homeschooling itself. However, homeschooling provides some special opportunities to really work with the child and truthfully, we'll never know for sure if they would have done better at home or at school in terms of academics. But no school can compete with the one on one attention you can give. You can determine exactly where your child is academically and start there and keep moving forward, adjusting as needs arise. You do not have to manage 20 children (even the largest family doesn't do that) trying to strike a middle course so the most advanced are not bored and the weakest have at least some chance of figuring things out. The repeated frustration at the bottom of the heap is discouraging and at the top, boredom often creates trouble-makers and clowns. The kids at the top survive because they have plenty of free time after school to follow whatever interests them and they get plenty of encouragement in terms of compliments - while the bottom kids are left struggling with no free time or they simply decide they are too dumb and what is the use trying. I will say it is encouraging to me when I am seeing repeated recommendations on the part of medical professionals (those evaluating struggling students) for the parents to homeschool. One near us has recently recommended homeschooling as the best way for my sis's child and has even written a letter for the record stating this in an attempt to help my sis do it legally.
I wish I could say homeschooling was stress free. It is probably the most difficult thing we have ever done, but looking back after doing it for 17 years now, it is the most rewarding and the best decision we ever made for all 6 of our children. I still find it stressful at times. This has gotten far too wordy (should have had my dh review it for conciseness and being more to the point) but do hope this helps some.
Janet
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4 lads mom
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Hi Cheryl,
I have an 8 yr old son, as well as 3 other boys, both older and younger. He is struggling as well, and taking his sweet time learning to read. Someone mentioned the books by Dr. Raymond and Dorothy Moore. I highly recommend them. "Better Late than Early" I think is one of the titles. Something that has helped with our reluctant little guy is to slip in "learning" with the things he really likes. Studying Dinosaurs, bringing reading into that, history, math, etc....like unit studies around things which give him delight and a sense of wonderment. Be gentle with your ds, he needs to feel a sense of accomplishment, every day! Even if it is just sitting to be read to, or completing an art project...
Take care!
4 Lads' Mom with one due 9/07
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Mom of four brave lads and one sweet lassie
Scenes From This and That
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BrendaPeter
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Dear Bob,
Great to hear from you!
Just wanted to chime in that we also have boys who are "slow" in the younger years. We do have some vision (convergence) problems here which contribute to the problem. I just want to reassure you that our 12 1/2 year old has come such a long way! I'm so relieved that we didn't push him in the younger years as he's practically a history expert and he loves to learn.
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Brenda (mom to 6)
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Tina P.
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ALmom wrote:
| Ours tested for suppression, eye movement control, ability to converge and to accomodate and a whole range of vision processing problems. We did have to request this specific exam as opposed to the normal eye exam - and fill out a history of types of school problems. She had 20/20 vision but major vision problems. |
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Interesting. Hmmmm .... makes me wonder about my own kids.
ALmom wrote:
| My dd that I mentioned above has just started complaining about her Algebra I - it is too boring and just repeating what she learned last year - so I'm letting her fly through the book just doing what practice she needs in the new concepts, testing and will just move on. This child was doing 4th grade math, 3 years ago (when she finally learned division and fractions)and we seemed to bog down. Then we quickly found her bored with the next level and she tested to her grade level in placement tests so we just started there and then proceeded on to Algebra. She tests well above average for her grade in standardized tests, does not have any problems with the concepts now and so I presume between normal life math, her 3 textbooks and finding what she needed to grasp written materials |
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Wow! That's encouraging as all of mine seem bogged down by math. Hopefully, it's just a brain development process. What texts do you have the most success using, Janet?
God bless,
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Tina, wife to one and mom to 9 + 3 in heaven
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ALmom
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Tina:
I'm the worst person to ask about texts as I am a math major/math lover so it really doesn't matter that much which text I use - I also explain things my own way or substitute for sections or dump the text altogether temporarily.
But to answer your question, my older children are in Saxon (but I freely substitute lessons. For instance, I always introduce fractions with Math-U-See, substitute sections of Jacob's Algebra for Saxon, take breaks to reinforce the concept and dh and I have chats with them around the table/ when real life presents problems that they are or have studied). I use nothing for a while (or sometimes manipulatives/Singapore Math in the younger grades) in the earliest years and then sometime we go to Singapore for sure.
Janet
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Cheryl
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Hi, it's me, Cheryl.
I want to thank you all for your responses to Bob's post. I really appreciate it. His post came about because our ds 8 was not doing his MCP Math B lesson on telling time. We've had resistance with the math a few times this year (usually on Mondays). When it happened I would tell him that he couldn't do anything until he finished (the 2 pages), he would would do nothing all day and then complete it around supper time. Then he'd have a great attitude the rest of the week. Tuesday was the first day back after vacation and he said he didn't understand telling time. I tried to explain it, but he did nothing. I thought he may be trying to get out of doing it, but I told him his Dad could help him with it at night. I figured he would not resist doing work with his Dad unless he really didn't understand it. It turned out that he wouldn't do a thing with Bob, which made Bob very concerned (as he put it).
I don't really agree that our ds is behind in everything. It's true he's not reading fluently, but he is reading slowly and making progress. I can understand why Bob might worry, though. He really leaves all the homeschooling to me. He runs a business and does a lot around the house, but he is not a reader, like he said. I don't think he's read anything about homeschooling besides your posts and he doesn't exactly know what we do. He's a very social person and does worry about ds 8 not having friends, especially since we moved to a new neighborhood, away from his one regular playmate. My view is that friendships take time to develop. We are going out to homeschooling activities and there are empty lots (to build homes on) on our street, so there may be potential friends in the future.
My plan is to skip telling time and move onto the next math topic. Certainly telling time can be learned naturally. He may already know it. He is one to not like to be forced to tell what he knows. (It's hard to get a narration out of him.) He likes to be read to and has lots of interests. My main worry would be that if we put him in school, he would be behind. But if we continue to homeschool, which I expect we will, I think he will do well.
I thank you all for your support and if anyone wants to continue discussing this...I'm for it.
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Cheryl
Wife to Bob ('97)
Mom to Matthew 13, Joseph 11, Sarah 10, Rachel 6, Hannah almost 4 and Mary 1
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Sarah
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Don't worry a thing about telling time. It was so hard for me when I was that age and like I said above ds8 didn't get it until recently and that was completely on his own AFTER I backed off completely.
Threads like these are always good to reassure us all. . .
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Six boys ages 16, 14, 11, 7, 5, 2 and one girl age 9
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Erin
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Cheryl
Just a brief note, you're on the right track just skip time and come back to it occasionally and then leave if he is still not ready. Time is an easy one anyway in real life situations, do you have a clock on the house?
My ds11 had a real hang up about time and I would just ask him 'subtutly' to tell me the time, say I was in the kitchen and he was near the clock I'd say "Dominic what is the time I need to cook this for ..." and although he was right at the clock he would walk all the way upstairs to look at the analog clock  I didn't make a deal of it though and FINALLY he has now just clicked  at 11yr.
School for your ds could also be a big mistake if he is concived as being behind by his peers they are very influenced by things like that 
Just let him be his own self and develop in his time, making sure to focus on his strengths.
One thing I've found that has helped me when I've run into situations like you mentioned is to look at 'the bigger picture'. ie. I'll share a recent conversation with dd13 regards her upcoming books for the year. She really hates a certain grammar/writing text, it is a great book in 'my' opinion but not in hers. I had to take a deep breath and realise that it is not an attitude problem and the book is an aid. The goal is for her to have some functioning understanding of grammar and to write fluently. So when I step back and look at the goal I realise that we can go at it another way, we ditched the book (maybe ds will like it ) and found another way to achieve the goal.
So for your son you discovered that it may not be attitude but a real difficulty with the concept, leave it and try it in other ways. Our poor oldest they are our guinea pigs
Edit:
Whoops I meant a digital clock not analong
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Erin
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: My dh has some questions
