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teachingmyown
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I am just starting to really examine and consider unschooling. I am reading the Unschooling Handbook and to be honest it is making me nervous! 
The quotes that I am reading demonstrate SO much parental involvement, whether it is helping the child find the information or getting them somewhere or just discussing things with them. I already feel pulled in 7 directions and that is simply helping with workbook pages and listening to narrations.
Part of what makes me nervous is that I have a terrible education. I don't remember anything, assuming that I learned anything to begin with. I had 13 years (K-12) of Catholic education, attending a very well respected college-prep high school. I was an A student. But when my kids ask me what direction rivers flow and why, my mind draws a blank.(Okay, don't laugh!  ) And when this happens in the car, the moment is lost by the time we get home. What message do the kids get when I say "I don't know, let's look it up." and we never do?
But if the moment isn't lost, and each child has 10 or 20 of those moments in a day, how can I keep up?
Another question on the same idea: there is so much talk about them learning various concepts from everyday life. The example given had to do with baking bread, I believe, and learning about "yeast and carbon dioxide, grains and gluten and salt...heat convection and conduction..." Okay, I bake bread, but I am missing something obviously because I wouldn't know what to teach my child about the above mentioned things while baking bread!
Is this making sense? Will my lack of knowledge and lack of time doom me to failure as an unschooler? I have a remarkable lack of curiosity and am not very observant of the world around me. Is this a product of my education? My oldest is the same way. I want more for my kids, but can I give it to them or help them get it for themselves?
I am sorry for the ramblings. I am just really trying to be honest with myself as I search for the right fit for our family. Any comments or direction would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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ALmom
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Molly,
No wonder we seem to like some of the same things. You sound just like how I would have described myself - except that my education wasn't Catholic except a Jesuit college with some very funny ideas. I cannot wait to see the responses you get as I'm curious about this myself.
Janet
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Willa
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teachingmyown wrote:
| The quotes that I am reading demonstrate SO much parental involvement, whether it is helping the child find the information or getting them somewhere or just discussing things with them. I already feel pulled in 7 directions and that is simply helping with workbook pages and listening to narrations. |
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Molly,
Your education was probably better than mine since I didn't go to Catholic school. I am not sure if they teach the kinds of things that kids really want to know, in schools. If they did wouldn't we remember more of it?
I am trying to think of what to say that would be helpful for you. I am very interested in hearing about how others unschool with large families, too. Some people seem to do it by doing a lot of things together. My family doesn't tend to spend a lot of time together since we are introverts. We phase in and out of each others' days.
This makes it difficult sometimes for me to assess their progress. I am more confident about it now but it took some time. I think I had a checklist mentality that was hard to let go of.
It helped me to step back from the day-to-day and look at the bigger view. I'm not sure how to express it so it doesn't sound like an unschooling truism, but the bigger picture shows me trends and developments.
Also, conversations have become more important and those can cover so much ground. When I talk to one of the kids, or they ask a question, it shows me what level they are thinking on. It is sort of like a natural narration or Socratic discussion. Sometimes I'm amazed at what they talk about.
When your children ask questions, it seems to me, they are showing you how their minds are working. So even if you never followed up, you would have that feedback from them -- a real question about something real. It is information about them. My 9yo started asking me about gravity one day -- he quickly exhausted my level of knowledge but it was really fascinating to see how he was thinking about things. I actually let that one drop in that I never got him a book or looked up gravity for him, but yet it was a significant conversation because we were really communicating and I was gaining understanding about his view of the world.
About the practical aspect of following up, I try to write down questions and sparks of interest because I am so forgetful -- I can get caught up in other things and forget what doesn't push at my attention directly.
I also look actively for things that might interest them. Not things I think would be good for them educationally, but things that go a step further in a path they are on or things that seem to suit their personality. Books, activities, games, etc.
I guess I don't really spend MORE time being involved than I did when I was using more structured methods; I just devote the time to different kinds of things.
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AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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momwise
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WJFR wrote:
| I actually let that one drop in that I never got him a book or looked up gravity for him, |
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hehe..........
Thanks for the reassurance Willa. I would love to hear more about how moms handle this issue. I had basically no education but that's not what really bothers me, since I've been doing some real learning all my adult life. Like Molly, opportunities are always slipping away due to the pace of life and my brain overload.
Another thing I want support with is the unschooling of math. If a child is simply not getting math concepts in any way, shape or form and you have 2-3 of these problems in a day, how do you get through it? It seems to suck so much life and energy out of me and we never get around to anything else. In our case, we're getting close to SATs and college choices, so it's not a matter of playing games anymore. I guess I just assumed it would all come around by now and it's not 
Sorry Molly, I hope this doesn't take too much away from your original question........
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Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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momwise
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momwise wrote:
| In our case, we're getting close to SATs and college choices, so it's not a matter of playing games anymore....... |
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Just had a thought that I should come back and clarify that. I meant literally playing math games, not figuratively, as in "unschooling math is like playing games." Ihope it didn't come across that way!
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Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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Leonie
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momwise wrote:
| Another thing I want support with is the unschooling of math. If a child is simply not getting math concepts in any way, shape or form and you have 2-3 of these problems in a day, how do you get through it? It seems to suck so much life and energy out of me and we never get around to anything else. In our case, we're getting close to SATs and college choices, so it's not a matter of playing games anymore. I guess I just assumed it would all come around by now and it's not |
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There is a new email list for unschooling maths - here is the info -
yahoo group for math
Welcome to MathingOff, the new list about unschooling math, deschooling
math, deprogramming math anxiety, and just plain having fun with math!
This list is dedicated to exploring how math can be learned without
"school", without canned curricula, without lesson plans, without
artifically dividing it up into grade levels and testing and drilling it
to death; and how math is naturally all around us and how children (and
adults too!) are doing math all the time, whether they realize it or not
LOL!
Whether you're already a dedicated unschooler, or someone who is
"unschooling except for math" but is looking to let go of that last
hang-up, or a homeschooler of any sort who is interested in thinking
about math education outside the box, we hope to provide you with an
interesting, insightful, lively forum!
In addition to being a an open discussion list, this list also serves to
distribute regular "math fun" postings in a feature-a-day format. This
includes Link of the Week (cool math stuff on the 'net), Resource
Recommendation (NOT canned curriculum stuff, just fun books, toys,
games, etc. to play with and enjoy), Mathtivity (math tricks, games,
puzzles, etc.), Math Lingo (fun with math vocab), Math Around the World
(ethnomathematics), and Random Math Trivia (um, did you know that
111,111,111 x 111,111,111 = 12,345,678,987,654,321? LOL).
mathing off
Oh, and Molly, it always helps me to read unschooling blogs - there are some other unschoolers with large families! 
Here are a few -
Graceful Journey
Blest with 10
Eclectic Unschooling
Journal of a Joyful Homeschool Mom of 6
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Leonie in Sydney
Living Without School
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Willa
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Thanks for those links, Leonie.
Here's a couple more:
Apple Stars
Dumb Ox Academy
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AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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Willa
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Gwen, math is still an issue for me. Can't seem to figure out how to do it in an unschooly way. Games and computer drills make the medicine go down a little better, but it's still medicine. The high schooler does a math textbook because she has college plans. But I wish there was some way to make it more "real" to her than that.
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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Willa
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Here's a couple of other large families unschooling:
Ramblings of an Unschooling Family
Letting Life Slip on By
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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momwise
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WJFR wrote:
| The high schooler does a math textbook because she has college plans. But I wish there was some way to make it more "real" to her than that. |
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Dd in high school can't seem to transition to the textbook. I don't know what to do except keep praying. She has college plans too and everything else is on track.
Molly, one thing I would do is rely heavily on Bravewriter , both the subscriptions and the yahoo list. This seems to work well with many dc of different ages. All the dc from 6 up love the "group" activities that we've done through Julie's site
Thanks for all the blogs!! This should be very helpful. 
__________________
Gwen...wife for 30 years, mom of 7, grandma of 3.....
"If you want equal justice for all and true freedom and lasting peace, then America, defend life." JPII
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tovlo4801
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teachingmyown wrote:
Another question on the same idea: there is so much talk about them learning various concepts from everyday life. The example given had to do with baking bread, I believe, and learning about "yeast and carbon dioxide, grains and gluten and salt...heat convection and conduction..." Okay, I bake bread, but I am missing something obviously because I wouldn't know what to teach my child about the above mentioned things while baking bread!
Is this making sense? Will my lack of knowledge and lack of time doom me to failure as an unschooler? I have a remarkable lack of curiosity and am not very observant of the world around me. Is this a product of my education? My oldest is the same way. I want more for my kids, but can I give it to them or help them get it for themselves?
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I saw your question a while back and really wanted to respond, but didn't quite know what to say and since I don't have a large family wondered if any of my personal experience would be relevant.
I'm reading a book called "Homeschooling and the Voyage of Self-Discovery" by David Albert and a quote in the Introduction by Joyce Reed jumped out at me and seemed to be an answer at some level to your question. It's the sort of thing I wanted to say in response to your question, but that I couldn't find the right words for. So I'll borrow Joyce's. :)
Joyce Reed wrote:
We don't teach kids to walk--though we do coach them and cheer them on! We certainly don't stand, tight-lipped, on the sidelines--pen and notebook in hand, observing and grading them as we calculate how far they got in a given time, or how often they fell down! If that happened, we might all still be getting around on our knees. We respect and delight in a baby's learning process, acknowledging s/he will take many falls and bumps (multiple mistakes and errors) while learning to walk, and knowing that the process will create their unique stance and motion in the world. As a consequence, we can see a person walking from a block away, and know who they are....
What became clear to me was that each child had the right (and responsibility!) to approach any learning experience in their own individualized and positively-supportive fashion. Most importantly, as I saw one daughter developing artistic skills that were way beyond mine, and I helped one son read the directions as he built his first computer (which i could not use), I realized that to support their learning, I didn't have to know or do what they were trying to learn better than they could. Instead, I needed the patience and devotion to really, really observe their learning--to pay close attention to their style, stance, natural abilities--then give them whatever support I could to maximize their efforts in mastering what was personally relevant for each of them. |
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I also wanted to pull out something Willa said in this thread.
Willa wrote:
| I guess I don't really spend MORE time being involved than I did when I was using more structured methods; I just devote the time to different kinds of things. |
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My impression with my smaller family is that this is exactly true. Instead of planning whatever the educational vogue is of the moment for their next school year, I spend that time with my kids observing and supporting their interests.
I don't know if that helped, or if you've decided already that unschooling isn't for you, but I know that some of what you said about baking etc. were similar to what I had in my mind about unschooling before I started. I was sort of imagining unschooling schooling. Where I was still the teacher and was overwhelmed with the idea of having to come up with lessons plans out of daily living everyday. I don't. I learn from life right along with my kids. My kids will notice things about the world and share it with me as they notice it, and I will do the same with them. The baking example, in my mind, could be something my children teach me about just as easily as it's something I teach them. It just depends on who's interest it has grabbed and who has gained that knowledge and wants to share it.
I truly, truly think that unschooling is natural and doesn't require any special expertise except perhaps a willingness to live actively with your kids, to pay attention to who they are as individuals, to listen to what they are excited to share with you, and to share with them all that you know. None of us knows everything. We can't. We have to trust that we'll encounter what we need as we make our way through this world by simply living and paying attention--paying attention to our children, to their interests, to our own knowledge base, and to the resources that surround us in our natural environment. We've all got that. What those interests and circumstances will end up creating educationally for each individual and individual family will be as unique as each of our singular gaits.
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Willa
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tovlo4801 wrote:
| I know that some of what you said about baking etc. were similar to what I had in my mind about unschooling before I started. I was sort of imagining unschooling schooling. Where I was still the teacher and was overwhelmed with the idea of having to come up with lessons plans out of daily living everyday. |
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That was my fear, too. I have never done well with spontaneity. When we were just married, DH would suggest on a weekend, "Let's go to X or do Y" (like a trip to the country fair, or whatever) and my heart would sink. I could never understand it since I loved him and usually liked the idea of the suggestion he was making. But I needed time to process and plan -- if he suggested it the night before I could get geared up and even thrilled about the idea.
Sometimes unschoolers talk about the freedom of getting rid of schedules and of getting to learn from real, everyday life. Those things aren't freedoms for me, they are TRIALS. I can do them sometimes if the circumstances require it -- ditch the schedule or have a real life, spontaneous learning project based on what's happening in the news or in our day to day lives -- but as a steady habit, NNOOO, please!!!! I could not bear it! I like some order, I like books, I have to ask my kids to help me when some machine gives me trouble and they are always the ones with the cool ideas for gardening or for tea parties or whatever. I'm not a natural, practical, hands-on person at all. The only way I can be that way is because I have little kids and kids who still need lots of sensory, natural experiences and because life in a large family often forces me to be spontaneous and flexible as well as prepared and planning-oriented.
I think that if you do unschool you are very justified in looking at your family, your own temperament, what your children thrive on, and taking steps towards that. An idea of freedom to do what you would like to do with your kids if you weren't always so tired from whatever else HAS to be done (I'm putting it in second person but not really advising you, just saying what I thought to myself in doubtful moments or when it didn't seem to be "working" very well in our lives).
For me -- I always wanted more time to have conversations; play games; be outside with the kids; research based on their interests rather than what was next on the curriculum schedule; spend more time facilitating the projects that they were motivated to do; and enjoy the little ones. So unschooling meant putting that kind of thing in first priority rather than trying to squeeze them in the cracks when everything else was checked off for the day, which was usually never. Your heart's impulses may be very different from mine, and actually SHOULD be if this unschooling thing really works because your family and YOU are different. To me, getting rid of the "schooly" stuff felt like getting rid of distraction and clutter -- schoolbooks and the kind of housework that wasn't really leaving much of a mark except for the struggles and negativity that resulted-- and going to the heart of things. The things that make our family unique: I often think of JPII's "Families, become who you are."
Oddly enough, for me, unschooling has been a back door into more Charlotte Mason methods. I used to see the CM things as "have to's" and then feel guilty about not doing them -- nature study, art, handicrafts etc. But now I guess our family's "inner CM" nature has come out a bit. It's mixed in with other elements according to our family custom, as well, but it's really interesting to see. My children love to read, write, plan creative projects like sword-making or movies, and TALK and discuss. This has come out as a much more resilient force since we dropped doing it by someone else's scope and sequence. I can still glean neat ideas but not feel guilty about the ones that don't work -- in fact, talking to my kids about WHY some things that work for others don't work for us has been a learning journey in itself. I am learning how my kids think and sometimes it's very revealing since they are native homeschoolers and I grew up in a school environment -- they see things differently than I do.
I'm not saying there aren't moments of frustration too and if you look at the archives you would see plenty of places where I vented about the trouble spots but those rewards are really worth a few thorns and stumbles for me. That's why I am keeping at it though I don't think I'm an expert at it.
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AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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ladybugs
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WJFR wrote:
| Oddly enough, for me, unschooling has been a back door into more Charlotte Mason methods. |
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I think the two compliment each other easily. I think, too, that when using CM's methods it is easy to find those rabbit trails that are unschooling!
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Love and God Bless,
Maria P
My etsy store - all proceeds go to help my fencing daughters!
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Natalia
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In one of the links Leonie provided there is a Unschooling Course Check it out!
Natalia
edited to say that this doesn't have anything to do with the thread but I thought it was interesting
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JodieLyn
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I think unschooling doesn't necessarily mean that schedules are wrong.. but that we don't work to SOMEONE ELSE'S schedule.
Just because so and such "expert" says that at age 8 you should teach __________. Doesn't mean that you have to. That's the freedom.
We can still plan on doing schoolish things after breakfast and read alouds after lunch ;)
As far as the bread and such.. sometimes especially if I know something will come up again (we bake bread rather often here) I can get myself the information. Another fun food for science is making fudge from scratch.. I've got a link around here that explains not only directions on what to do but why it works.
Questions you can't answer can often be turned back on the child.. "why do you think it happens that way?" As Willa said, it let's you know how the child is thinking.
Older kids you can get them notebooks to write down questions for looking up later.
As far as math.. preschool stuff I found easy.. we'd count whatever I was doing (clothespins, cups of flour, items of clothing etc), we learn alalog time because I have an analog clock on the wall that I use. In the car I'd give them simple addition problems to do in their heads. But when they started asking for math problems to do on paper.. I was doing ok with one child.. but when two wanted me to write things out.. I thought.. there's got to be a curriculum/workbook that has already done this.. there's no reason I should be "reinventing the wheel".. and sure enough I found that Singapore Math is done almost exactly the way I was teaching my kids math. Is it unschooling? well, the kids are interested in it. We started at the beginning and the kids will do several exercises or just one or skip a day here and there.. or pull it out in the evening cause they want to do "just one more page"  that sounds like unschooling to me. It's using material that is obviously engaging the child, makes sense to the child and is mostly at the child's instigation.
Though I find it funny that my daughter could double and triple recipes long before she thought she could do multiplication 
Oh and I'd toss some reference books into the car if you know some things will come up.. you're going out for a walk in the woods, you might want something to identify trees and flowers and birds or whatever you family might be interested in (mushrooms?, animal tracks?)
For me, unschooling is less about the materials we choose to use.. than it is about the reasons we're using them.
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Large family unschooling
