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Becky Parker
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I have the Laying Down the Rails book but unfortunately is sits on my shelf. We need to work on many virtues and I'm trying to decide what program would be best. As I read the sample pages of Laying Down the Rails for Children, the author talks about how, after 6 weeks of effort she sort of gave up. (Not the exact words but that's the gist of it.) I'm in the same boat and I'm thinking that a program would help.
Jen, if you read this, I noticed in this thread that you were going to give Laying Down the Rails for Children a test run. How is it going?
Lindsay let us all know about the Virtues in practice program in this thread which looks fabulous, and it's free.
So, which way to go? I think I need something really concrete.
I'm wondering if we could talk a little about these programs, or maybe something different.
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Becky
Wife to Wes, Mom to 6 wonderful kids on Earth and 4 in Heaven!
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CrunchyMom
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I, too, have the original version of Laying Down the Rails collecting dust, but the newer book does look a little more concrete in its implementation and appeals to me, too.
I do think that they are really two different things, although some of the habits/ virtues would overlap a bit. I imagine that they could be used in conjunction with each other, choosing the habits from LDtR that seem to mesh best with the virtues being studied. Since we can't see the full VIP program yet, it is hard to say how much is included, but I love the different stories, poems, etc... being coordinated with the intended habits in the books LDTR. I would think it would at least be a worthy resource to supplement the VIP program.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
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[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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SeaStar
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Another dust collector here  .
I am very anxious to see the VIP program- I hope it will be ready soon.
I did have the Every Day Graces book by Karen Santorum, which followed a similar format to the new version of LDTR. Her book dealt more with manners, with selections from famous books and poems to illustrate them.
I didn't care for that format in the EDG book- it seemed very choppy to me, with bits and pieces from so many sources... a chapter from Anne of Green Gables, a few paragraphs from Pinnochio, etc. My kids were younger then, and we hadn't read all the books. They were distracted by not knowing the story lines- I spent a good deal of time explaining all that to them. It might work better now.
LDTR gives concrete examples of things for families to do to practice virtues. I did like the sample I read on line. I am just reluctant to buy another edition of it when I don't use the one I have now.
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CrunchyMom
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As for "which way," unless the VIP program proves to be very different from what I hope, I plan to try and implement it this year. Its organization really appeals to me as a framework for covering these areas over the years. I will likely choose it as the primary course, but I'm definitely looking forward to Jen's review, too, because it does look to be such a great tool to add to the arsenal.
The benefits of LDTR would of course be the flexibity of choosing the habit according to your family's needs and its flexibility lends itself towards a more mastery driven approach. You don't move on until you feel you have made progress. But I do feel like I'm more likely to be faithful to the more rigid VIP program, and the virtues will come around again, and with different ages and different temperaments and strengths, this spiral approach has benefits, too.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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CrunchyMom
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SeaStar wrote:
Another dust collector here .
I am very anxious to see the VIP program- I hope it will be ready soon.
I did have the Every Day Graces book by Karen Santorum, which followed a similar format to the new version of LDTR. Her book dealt more with manners, with selections from famous books and poems to illustrate them.
I didn't care for that format in the EDG book- it seemed very choppy to me, with bits and pieces from so many sources... a chapter from Anne of Green Gables, a few paragraphs from Pinnochio, etc. My kids were younger then, and we hadn't read all the books. They were distracted by not knowing the story lines- I spent a good deal of time explaining all that to them. It might work better now.
LDTR gives concrete examples of things for families to do to practice virtues. I did like the sample I read on line. I am just reluctant to buy another edition of it when I don't use the one I have now. |
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I agree about Everyday Graces. At least in the previews, LDTR for children seems to use more stand alone stories and poems rather than picture books without pictures or excerpts.
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Lindsay
Five Boys(6/04) (6/06) (9/08)(3/11),(7/13), and 1 girl (5/16)
My Symphony
[URL=http://mysymphonygarden.blogspot.com/]Lost in the Cosmos[/UR
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Mackfam
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Becky Parker wrote:
I have the Laying Down the Rails book but unfortunately is sits on my shelf. We need to work on many virtues and I'm trying to decide what program would be best. As I read the sample pages of Laying Down the Rails for Children, the author talks about how, after 6 weeks of effort she sort of gave up. (Not the exact words but that's the gist of it.) I'm in the same boat and I'm thinking that a program would help.
Jen, if you read this, I noticed in this thread that you were going to give Laying Down the Rails for Children a test run. How is it going? |
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We're really enjoying it. My own teaching style, and my kids styles, don't lend themselves well to "program-y" type virtue/habit training. They just don't work well for us - we find them lite on substance and heavy on extras which means they end up neglected. What has always worked well for us is excellent literature and discussions from the complex characters and circumstances we read about. So I was really intrigued when SCM came out with this program which springs from CM's habit training philosophy and couples it with literary bits which undergird particular habits. The literary support comes from a variety of sources: children's books, poetry, Bible verses, literary excerpts, noteworthy quotes.
We move very slowly through the book, giving time for the habit to develop, and also time for the virtue/habit to become a part of our vocabulary. So, I read a lesson from the book 1 - 2 times a week as part of our Morning Basket work. It's short, easy to do, and keeps the habit in the forefront of our days. and wonderful to have readings that coordinate so well with the habit we're working on! Here's how the program works:- The parent starts by reviewing the habit and the parent prep section which is very brief. The book provides a "workbook" type place to jot down notes in the parent section, but I didn't find that necessary. I did enjoy reading through the questions and pointers and I did jot down a few notes on my big yellow pad from the suggestions in this section. The Parent Prep for each habit is always the same and consists of prompters to:
** Goals for this habit (and steps to get there)
** A person or story from my life that demonstrates this habit.
** Additional stories, poems, quotations, Bible verses I want to use (I can see me coming back to this section and adding notes to it periodically - adding resources I might want to use in the future.)
** Other activities we could do to practice this habit
** Celebration Ideas - Following the Parent Prep page are the lessons.
- The first lesson always defines the habit and points to a Bible verse that illustrates the habit. I like this part a lot. Again, it's not super wordy - just has the important stuff which, to me, leaves lots of room for discussion rather than a monologue by me.
- The other lessons are literary based: usually it's just a short reading, or an excerpt from a story that I might ask the kids to narrate and a little suggestion to cover a small part of the habit. For example, one of the lessons in CLEANLINESS is about learning the importance of washing your hands well, and how to do that. I coupled that lesson with reading the picture book Germs Make Me Sick. (something I just pulled off my shelf - wasn't recommended in the program). I find it easy to pull from my shelves to support a habit we're learning about, but it should be noted that there are not supplemental booklist recommendations in this program.
- Some lessons contain a story which might take 10 minutes to read aloud. Other lessons have short poems, Bible verses or quotes from noteworthy individuals that support the habit or promote a part of the virtue.
- There are about 9 - 12 lessons for each habit. I like the program because it works in short bits, is literary based, doesn't have a lot of fluff, which is always a stumbling block for me/us.
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Since I only read from the Laying Down the Rails for Children lessons twice a week in our Morning Basket, on the other days I read from other literature that works well to promote virtue. Here are some of the books that have served well over the years:
:: Character Calendar by Mary Fidelis Todd - love this little book! Again, short and sweet and wonderful to start the day every day! See this helpful thread for Jenn's review and links for where to find this book.
:: Book of Golden Deeds by Charlotte Yonge - this is an excellent book for promoting good moral character and we've been reading through this slowly for the last year! (You can get this free for the Kindle and iPad)
:: George Washington's Rules of Civility and Decent Behavior - these are just short, but wonderful, little nuggets of wisdom from Washington. (These are not meaty, page-long quotations! They do make excellent copywork or dictation selections, too!!) If we have a busy day and I'm getting an abbreviated Morning Basket of work in, I read one of these little quotes and we might have a short discussion of it. I find them excellent sources of vocabulary as well as good general "social skills" instruction!! They're very practical! Here's a sample of one of the quotes:
George Washington wrote:
| Let your countenance be pleasant, but in serious matters somewhat grave. |
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:: Plutarch's Lives are wonderful for illustrating character and moral values and make great discussion points with older kids.
:: We've always enjoyed all of William Bennett's books for reading literary examples of good virtue/habits. There are so many to choose from!
:: Conferences to Children on Practical Virtue by Abbe P. Verdrie - This book is a little gem! We read through it very slowly a couple of years ago and found it wonderful!! Rich in Catholic insight as well as helpful practical direction - it just isn't all bullet pointed out for you so you'll probably want to make little notes as you read through. It's a short book, so not an intimidating read. These can coordinate with the good habits from the SCM book and would make excellent additional reading.
:: Laying Down the Rails by SCM - this is the original book SCM printed and published. It works more as a reference for me and it works well in that way. I don't use it like a program really - but more to flip through and reflect on particular habits I want to work on, CM quotes that support that habit, ideas to implement. I do like the more concrete, readable approach to implement a particular habit with their program Laying Down the Rails for Children: A Habit Training Companion. I use the reference format of LDTR as part of my parent prep before approaching a new habit and it works well that way for me.
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Anyway...with regard to the Virtue based program Lindsay linked, I hope to use it alongside the LDTR for Children program. I really like that the Virtues in Practice program brings in the Catholic viewpoint in building virtue and love that it targets different age groups with a different saint and reading for the same virtue. I can see it being a very valuable part of our Morning Basket for many years! So I'm really looking forward to seeing it and working it in!!
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Jen Mackintosh
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Mackfam
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SeaStar wrote:
I did have the Every Day Graces book by Karen Santorum, which followed a similar format to the new version of LDTR. Her book dealt more with manners, with selections from famous books and poems to illustrate them.
I didn't care for that format in the EDG book- it seemed very choppy to me, with bits and pieces from so many sources... a chapter from Anne of Green Gables, a few paragraphs from Pinnochio, etc. My kids were younger then, and we hadn't read all the books. They were distracted by not knowing the story lines- I spent a good deal of time explaining all that to them. It might work better now. |
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I just wanted to address this briefly.
In Everyday Graces, Karen uses longer selections and excerpts from literature than are chosen in the Laying Down the Rails for Children program. I think Everyday Graces works well for older children as a read aloud or even as an independent read - say 4th/5th grade+. I haven't found Everyday Graces to be a good fit for younger children because of the length of the selections.
In general, I find the selections in LDtRfC shorter and more in context with the habit being fostered. It also contains much more of the practical for mom, who is working "behind the scenes" in helping move everyone toward success in a habit.
And not every lesson has a longer type reading. Here's how short a lesson could be - this is the entirety of...
Order - Lesson 4:
Quote:
Think on point 3 together and discuss the quotation that follows. Some children want to keep everything and have a special reason for each item. It's a good idea to keep some very special items in storage while cleaning out the rest after a period of time.
3. Don't allow sentimental emotions to prevent you from being orderly
"A place for everything, and everything in its place." -- Benjamin Franklin |
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Hope that's a help in distinguishing between Everyday Graces and Laying Down the Rails for Children.
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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SallyT
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Wow, that's a helpful review, Jen. I might have to add LDR to our basket as well. My shopping list grows ever longer . . .
We have been reading and loving Amy Welborn's Book of Heroes, which tells saint stories in the context of the Cardinal Virtues. It's more a big-picture look at the virtues, aimed at defining them through a series of stories, rather than a habit-training book. Amy's style is breezy and conversational, in a contemporary way, and she references school experiences a lot (though pretty much every school reference has its echo in some interaction my homeschooled kids have had, so we didn't find that problematic), but not in ways I find "twaddly." It's very accessible reading, but still meaty. We haven't finished it -- it's been a basket book for us, and we've read it in spurts, with other things intervening at times. I reference it all the time, though -- "Well, maybe this is a time for *fortitude,* dear . . . " Or charity, or temperance, or whatever. Having that vocabulary introduced and emphasized through these very engaging stories has been highly useful for us in our daily life!
But now I'm really inspired to take that groundwork and continue with some of the resources discussed here.
eta: My teaching style is very like Jen's -- we don't do well with lessons/programs, per se, preferring to read, talk, and think, rather than engaging in "learning activities." This does make me think that we would get some use out of LDR, if I put it in the basket, which would make me remember to read it.
Sally
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kristacecilia
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We're using LDTR, too, and the LDTRC book. I can't really add anything to what Jen said, except that we are using it very similarly. At first we were trying to do it with Dad at the end of the day, but with baseball season upon us and the end of the day business often leaving it overlooked, forgotten, or put off, I decided to just move it to the morning basket so we wouldn't forget about it. We started with Obedience (I figured we would do Obedience, Attention, and Truthfulness like the CM and the author suggest). We are just wrapping it up. The kids have enjoyed the activities. I can't say they are as obedient as I would like, and we may end up spending a few weeks extra on this reading stories from Everyday Graces or something similar to supplement, but the seeds have been sown and we will continue to work on it.
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Krista
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pumpkinmom
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Thank you Jen!  I was struggling with implementing this program and your post has helped me see how to use it in our home. I also see how I can use other books that were mentioned (and we have on hand) in our character training. Now I'm looking forward to writing up a plan to add this to our school day. 
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Cassie
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Becky Parker
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Thanks for the great discussion and review! I was hoping to get back here yesterday but we went strawberry picking instead, then, of course, I had a kitchen full of strawberries to deal with.
Jen, I really appreciate the review that you took so much time to type up! I think I'm sold on both programs so I like the idea of combining.
I was really hoping to start some good habits this summer, making our morning prayer and readings a part of our summer days just like when we are doing school, but I'm afraid I need more virtue and good habits! It just seems like during the summer I wake up and hit the ground running. I can't wait until we can get back to the orderly days of school time. Well, "can't wait" might be a little overly exuberant  , but I do miss the structure that seems to end with the last school lesson being completed. This affects my kids as well and I see the need for virtue training more and more.
Now I'm trying to decide if I can put some sort of program together on my own. The price tag for LDTRFC is a bit high now that I've bought so many books for the coming school year. It seems like a daunting task though!
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Becky
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AmandaV
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Great discussion! To be honest, when i first saw the new book I sort of dismissed it. Now I am intrigued. Jen or Krista, could the LDtRfC stand alone without Mom also owning LDtR? I have the DVD talk of it that is part of the all day seminar, but I've never felt I could splurge on the book and its hard to find used. And Jen- thanks for the excellent list of go-along virtue books! I knew of some but not all and its great to have the list in one place!!
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Amanda
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Mackfam
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AmandaV wrote:
| Jen or Krista, could the LDtRfC stand alone without Mom also owning LDtR? |
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Absolutely. I do find LDtR to be a helpful parent resource, but it isn't necessary to make this work.
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Jen Mackintosh
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AmandaV
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Thanks, Jen!
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Amanda
wife since 6/03, Mom to son 7/04, daughter 2/06, twin sons 6/08 and son 7/11, son 1/2014
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pumpkinmom
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Another resource that can be used is The Virtue Chronicles. They were mention in this post.
I read through the obedience one yesterday and the readings are wonderful.
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Cassie
Homeschooling my little patch of Ds-14 and Ds-10
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Lots and Lots of food for thought, thanks so much for this, Ladies. I always feel like we are hanging out having coffee and tea and cheering each other on with threads like this.  
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kristacecilia
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pumpkinmom wrote:
Another resource that can be used is The Virtue Chronicles. They were mention in this post.
I read through the obedience one yesterday and the readings are wonderful. |
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These look like they could be great as a supplement for older kids. Thanks!
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Krista
Wife to a great guy, mom to two boys ('04, '06) and three girls ('08, '10, '12!)
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Laying Down Rails? Virtues in Practice?
