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Wheatheartaca
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| Posted: Dec 27 2012 at 11:58pm | IP Logged
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Hi. This is my 2nd yr of homeschooling Dd 13. Ds 8. Dd 7. We are eclectic (use Seton,CHC, Teaching Textbooks, Time4learning, CLE) but I'm leaning towards CM method. I have been study Mater Amabilis website and I have read "A Charlotte Mason Education A Home Schooling How To Manual." Two weeks ago I began reading aloud "The Story of the World" and we are really enjoying it. But, how do I do narration and dictation and how much and for how long? Can someone recommend a CM hand holding book?  I can't read all of her volumes right now because I also work full-time from home. I purchased an 8th grade MODG syllabus and I like the way it's laid out but I keep thinking my dd would enjoy and learn more with CM method.
Thank you and God bless.
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jawgee
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Welcome!
Simply Charlotte Mason is a great website for those who are beginning a CM education. The site spells out the basics and has a "free curriculum guide" that has been so useful for us in developing a book list.
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Monica
C (12/2001), N (11/2005), M (5/2008), J (8/2009) and three angels
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cathhomeschool
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If you want an actual book, Catherine Levison's A Charlotte Mason Education is short and gives the basics.
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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Wheatheartaca
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Yes, that's the one I have read. I was wondering if anyone could recommend other similar books. Thanks.
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Wheatheartaca
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jawgee wrote:
Welcome!
Simply Charlotte Mason is a great website for those who are beginning a CM education. The site spells out the basics and has a "free curriculum guide" that has been so useful for us in developing a book list. |
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I will check that out. Thank you!
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AmandaV
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Penny Gardner has a short ebook that you may like. Its mostly quotes. Others often recommend Jenny King's Charlotte Mason Reviewed. I haven't bought it or seen it yet. I really have enjoyed When Children Love to Learn. Its by educators in CM-like schools, such as the Ambleside International Schools, including MaryEllen St. Cyr.
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Amanda
wife since 6/03, Mom to son 7/04, daughter 2/06, twin sons 6/08 and son 7/11, son 1/2014
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Dec 28 2012 at 4:40pm | IP Logged
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Wheatheartaca wrote:
| But, how do I do narration and dictation and how much and for how long? |
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Narration is very simple -- it is telling back. And requires only one thing -- the living book.
It IS NOT:
...reading comprehension questions {please don't ask these on top of asking for a narration! ...or you WILL overwhelm the child and burn out will be your new best friend}
...you prompting with thought provoking questions
...you looking to ensure that the child gives you the three main points of the story with the climax and resolution
...cardboard questions like you'd find at the end of a chapter of textbook reading.
It IS:
...what the child takes from the story and tells back. Nothing more. Nothing less.
YOU: "Yesterday in Story of the World you were telling me about nomads and what life was like for a nomad. Can you tell me what you read about today in Story of the World?"
CHILD: Tells.
There is no required time, no required level of detail (though with practice and developing the habit of narrating, the child will begin to offer more and more detail). It's important to note that each child narrates differently - different styles, different levels of detail, different ability to weave together the parts of the story they recount.
There are two types of narration - oral and written. Since you're just working your way into Charlotte Mason, I'd recommend only working with oral narration for the rest of the year and then re-evaluate. Your 13yo is old enough to begin written narrations after completely and SOLIDLY building the habit of oral narration, and not before.
How often to narrate is up to you. I have my children narrate almost everything they read because it is such an essential part of cementing knowledge. I'd recommend narrating history, some religion living books, and even a science living book.
It's important to mention that children can only narrate from a living book. The reason for this lies in the idea of relationship, a cornerstone of Charlotte Mason. The child must be able to form a relationship with a book - the book must engage his emotions. A text won't do this, but a quality, well written living book will. It would be the difference between a history text and The Sign of the Beaver. The child forms relationships with the characters in Story of the Beaver, he's immersed in the time period, he lives through the main character and how he must grow and take care of himself, he welcomes the friendships the main character makes. This allows the child to engage emotionally. The writing opens the imagination and the ideas firmly stick into place. Through narration the child tells back what he reads and often you, the parent, will see the child's developing understanding emerge. After reading the book many ideas are cemented into place - frontier life, courage, resourcefulness, friendship, Indian relationships, loyalty, family, and the historical and geographical layout of Maine in the 18th century. And it sticks with them.
In narrating the child reads, acts on the material and makes it his own by turning it over in his/her head, and gives it back to you. In explaining it, it is simple. But, for the child, it is a challenging skill to develop!!!! And is soooo important for laying the foundation for writing! Allow time for the skill of narration to develop and build. Recognizing that it is something that takes mental muscle, allow the first narrations to be a little shaky, lacking in what you'd consider a full amount of detail. It will take time for all the children to build mental muscle to narrate well. Keep reading living books. Keep narrating.
In case you're interested, I wrote a series of Charlotte Mason language arts posts, one of which is specifically written about narration.
Dictation has a different purpose - it's focus in working on grammar and spelling. If I were in your shoes, just moving into Charlotte Mason, I'd put dictation on the back burner just for a bit. Baby step into this. I'd baby step first into:
** Putting more living books on the kids schedule
** Building the habit of narration
** Begin daily copywork - copying from living, worthy thoughts.
** {Get ready for this...} Getting rid of ALL spelling/vocabulary/grammar/writing programs. All of them. {I know...this requires a gigantic leap of faith. You can keep these programs/workbooks, but they'll be redundant and really add an overwhelming amount to your days. And they're not necessary!!! Think of it this way - maybe you could drop them just for the rest of the year on a temporary basis. It gives you and the children extra time and energy to work on narration and other Charlotte Mason language arts methods. If you see CM methods working for you more and more by the end of the year, consider the freedom of living without spelling/vocabulary/grammar/writing curriculum. Think how much time and money that would free up! And the children will still learn these skills! Through living, worthy thoughts and books! If you're interested more in the why behind these ideas, you might be interested in this article, The Balanced Whole in a Charlotte Mason Education. And, because I know it's confusing figuring out which of the Charlotte Mason methods replaces which standard-school-in-a-box curriculum, I came up with a simple chart that explains very succinctly each of the the Charlotte Mason language arts methods, their purpose, and what they replace - you can download and print it free here. I know this was a lot, but hopefully it gives you some jumping off points.
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Jen Mackintosh
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Wheatheartaca
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| Posted: Dec 28 2012 at 6:17pm | IP Logged
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Penny Gardner has a short ebook that you may like. Its mostly quotes. Others often recommend Jenny King's @Amanda: I will check out the Penny Gardner ebook and Jenny King's book. I think I may have When Children Love to Learn. Thank you.
@Macfam: Uhm....wow....that was fabulous! It is like you knew the questions in my head. I will definitely check out your series & especially the one on narration. I have read some of your other posts and I agree with others that you should write a book. 
Thank youvery much for taking the time to answer my questions in detail, you gave me some great jumping off points. 
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Wheatheartaca
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| Posted: Dec 28 2012 at 11:03pm | IP Logged
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@Mackfam: get rid of all spelling/vocab/writing/grammar books? Ok.
How about daily copy work? I would like to use The Baltimore Catechism with all three at the same time. Is daily copy work used for penmanship or memorization?
I read 1 chapter daily from SOTW. Do I give each child a chance to narrate then the next day the next child the next chapter, etc? What if one leaves out details and another wants to fill in the details?
Also, they always raise their hands to make comments during the reading. I make them hold all questions until I finish otherwise the reading drags on. And I make them sit quietly and sit away from each other so they will not touch each other. Any tips?
I read the article "The Balanced Whole..." it was really great. You really have tempted me to let go of some of our workbooks for the rest of the year. :)
Thanks
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Mackfam
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| Posted: Dec 28 2012 at 11:51pm | IP Logged
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Wheatheartaca wrote:
@Mackfam: get rid of all spelling/vocab/writing/grammar books? Ok.
How about daily copy work? I would like to use The Baltimore Catechism with all three at the same time. Is daily copy work used for penmanship or memorization? |
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Copywork is an important part of a Charlotte Mason education, as well as a Classical education. It's tried and true. Its main purpose is penmanship, but it also has the side benefit of conveying ideas through living, worthy thoughts, and beyond that, children do learn grammar and mechanics simply through the copying of worthy phrases over the years. The purpose of copywork is not memorization, but there has always been a place for memory work in a Charlotte Mason education. The Baltimore Catechism is something I reserve for memory work only. I use excerpts from pieces of literature as well as prayers and excerpts from the Mass for copywork.
Wheatheartaca wrote:
| I read 1 chapter daily from SOTW. Do I give each child a chance to narrate then the next day the next child the next chapter, etc? What if one leaves out details and another wants to fill in the details? |
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What you've just described is a group narration, and it's wonderful! In fact, it's quite close to what CM did in her classes. Simply start with one child, then allow another child to pick up where that child left off. I'd allow a different child to start the narration off for a given day, but then invite the other children (without interrupting) to include their narrations, filling in details that the first child may not have included.
Wheatheartaca wrote:
| Also, they always raise their hands to make comments during the reading. I make them hold all questions until I finish otherwise the reading drags on. And I make them sit quietly and sit away from each other so they will not touch each other. Any tips? |
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I don't allow questions or interruptions when I'm reading aloud either. I do take questions afterward. Sounds like you've got a good game plan in place. The goal is to foster attention - use the tools you need to do this. An excellent habit to cultivate is that of NOT interrupting and it's something we work hard on here. Sounds like you're making great strides in that effort as well!
Wheatheartaca wrote:
| I read the article "The Balanced Whole..." it was really great. You really have tempted me to let go of some of our workbooks for the rest of the year. :) |
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It IS a very, very challenging thought. It does require a bit of stepping off the beaten path. Two things can help:
1) Consider education in the context of history. Benjamin Franklin was not educated with a spelling and vocabulary curriculum. He read. And he read a lot. Of worthy books. And he used copywork. He would challenge himself to observe the different writing styles of authors and then emulate...and then he'd re-write, challenging himself to write better. No expensive curriculum. No flash cards. No tests. No flashy rewards. Reading and learning for the sake of learning. Ideas at work. And Franklin is really a contemporary example...go back to ancient Classical education examples. They are replete with worthy books, copywork, dictation, narration (sounding familiar?)...with not a single mention of special spelling curriculums, etc. I think when looking at education in this context it gives a confidence to step out of the mold of purchasing busywork and curriculum as necessary. And I can tell you the rewards are fantastic and the results are concrete.
2) Give yourself permission to make a concerted, solid effort for a temporary time. Baby stepping. It won't work unless you read (CM books and CM herself...start with Vol 6/Toward a Philosophy of Education) and really apply yourself so you can learn the "how-to" behind these CM language arts methods. I have found this works really well for me in home education: If I'm making a change of course or direction, I make a commitment to really apply myself for a specific period of time (a term, or a half a year) and then re-evaluate my decision from there. I've made no long term commitments, but I HAVE committed myself to fully trying for the temporary amount of time (not a half-hearted effort that will not yield the same results or learning experience from really committing to an idea).
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Jen Mackintosh
Wife to Rob, mom to dd 19, ds 16, ds 11, dd 8, and dd 3
Wildflowers and Marbles
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cathhomeschool
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| Posted: Dec 29 2012 at 11:48am | IP Logged
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Wheatheartaca wrote:
Yes, that's the one I have read. I was wondering if anyone could recommend other similar books. Thanks.
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LOL I see that now. There are so many CM books out there that I thought it was a different book because of the subtitle. 
Jen has given wonderful explanations as usual! For me, one of the important points was to tailor to the child. I had one who could narrate whole books in great detail but he struggled with penmanship, while another child could barely narrate a paragraph but produced beautiful copywork. So length and difficulty level is personal to each child. I also took spelling lists from their own writings.
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Janette (4 boys - 22, 21, 15, 14)
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Wheatheartaca
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@Cathomeschool: no problem With so many books, they all start looking the same. Lol.
I'm glad to hear that about tailoring the child. I have found the same with mine and I'm still trying to figure it all out. Getting out of the "school" mentality of "filling the bucket" has been MY own personal challenge. The more I explore the CM method the more it feels at home. Thank you.
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Wheatheartaca
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Mackfam: thanks for posting on your blog an example of subjects. That really helped me.
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Newbie here
