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pigeonberry
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| Posted: Feb 13 2010 at 9:33pm | IP Logged
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I hope I can express my thoughts clearly on this post. I had recently come to the realization that our family is becoming more unschooly as the months pass. I had recently posted asking what other homeschooling homes look like and I was excited by the responses. Blue Yonder blog was one of the blogs I read that gave me encouragement in the project-based sort of unschooling that we were doing. Every so often, I would read her link about how they homeschool for affirmation and inspiration. A few days ago I went back to her blog and was surprised to find out that they have decided to go with the boxed-curriculum Sonlight. They just felt that the amazing uschooling journey they were on (has anybody read their nature posts?) wasn't enough. My first thought was, "If they think that what they're doing isn't enough, then my own home is severely lacking". Their hopes and goals for their children are similiar if not the same as mine, so I'm just wondering if it's possible to meet those goals in an unschooling environment. They don't seem to think so and if they had the unschooling life I'm striving for, am I wrong to think that unschooling is enough? Does any of this make sense?
Here's the link where they talk about deciding to use Sonlight.
Here's the post where she lists her goals
Again, her hopes for her children are similar to ours but I would add that I want my children to come away from our home knowing fundamental life skills. I think that's when I started getting fed up with seatwork and busy work. I realized we could be somewhere in our house, learning how to manage a household and learning how to create beautiful things. I wasn't taught basic skills myself, everything was done for me and I don't want that for my children. My husband feels the same way.
I guess I'm struggling with the question most moms ask themselves, "Am I doing enough?" I guess reading her post made me think that I'm not.
I hope some of this makes sense.
If anybody has any links or books suggestions or insight, I'd love to hear about it.
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: Feb 13 2010 at 9:58pm | IP Logged
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Unschooling is tricky.. because by definition.. there really isn't a set of things that you should do.
And just because you have the same goals doesn't mean that for your family, your particular abilities, your children's particular abilities that you should follow the same pathways to those goals.
We use a math curriculum.. horrors.. works books! 
But when the kids are begging for math problems to do.. is it really unschooling to say.. no we can't do that.. we should pull out this math game instead? Since a great deal of the point is to follow the child's interests.
So unlike many unschoolers I think if the child is wanting to learn something and the way to access that information is through a curriculum.. great.. it's one pathway. That doesn't mean that another pathway might not work.
Also, there are outside pressures.. different for each of us. And how well we handle those may also make a difference. Sometimes it's better to sit down and learn grammar than it is to give outside entities more say over what you are doing.
Some children learn better free form.. but some actually thrive more with a more set schedule and curriculum.
The best you can do for your children.. is what works best for each child but also the family as a whole. Just because one family needs to add more structure doesn't mean that what you are doing won't work.
__________________
Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
-Sir Walter Scott
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Bethany
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| Posted: Feb 15 2010 at 7:22am | IP Logged
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Well, I have also been moving more and more towards unschooling. After reading a lot of John Holt, The Moores, and Ruth Beechick, I'm more convinced that a set sit down curriculum wouldn't work for us and isn't necessarily the best. We have had periods where I tried to do this with much frustration from all.
I don't believe, and I "think" this is true for most unschoolers, that it's not so much anti-curriculum as it is picking and choosing what works to get the child where they want to go. If my child asked for math problems, I wouldn't say no, I would give them some math problems. If they wanted to know about chemistry, I wouldn't send them to the back yard to think about it. If they were old enough, I would give them a text or find an appropriate class. I think of it as complete freedom to pursue knowledge in any way that works and not feeling guilty because your not doing "school" at home. Just the other day my 7 yo asked what a molecule was because we had previously talked about what made up water. I wasn't sure how to explain it and couldn't remeber the exact makeup of atoms so I pulled out a child's encyclopedia and we both learned so much. Now since she's only 7, I doubt she'll remember everything we read but it's a start.
I was searching the internet and found this article which I thought very nicely described unschooling. I particularly liked the quote from Anne Sullivan at the bottom.
The hardest part of homeschooling (and the internet) is to want to model or compare yourself to others. I know this too well  . But I just have to keep reminding myself that I'm not them and my children are not the same as theirs. I can even be discouraged by the coloring pages of some children. But again, I have to remember that I really never liked coloring pages when I was a child and I've never really directed my kids when they color to make sure the complete it or color in the lines, so why would I expect them to fill in some coloring page beautifully  .
My children are still young and I do believe I have seen the dscouragement that can occur by being too formal too soon with my oldest. This is one reason I have backed off and haven't even gotten formal with my younger children. I can see our future as being a tide that changes with everyones interests and abilities/readiness. I've gotten very sensitive about people thinking their "behind" or not doing enough. What's behind, aren't we all behind in some way in some area, or maybe no ones behind we just haven't gotten there yet? Who decided what had to be know at a certain age? That's has more to do with the process and system of school. It's an assembly line that believes you have to constantly insert little drips of information repeatedly in order for children to come out educated at the end of the line.
Oh well, I could go on forever since this has been on my mind so much recently. My biggest advice would be to not let one persons decision affect how you live your life with your children. I know it's hard and we all want to do what's best for our children. I just pray, trust, and hope that I will do what's best for my children because I love them and God entrusted them to me for a reason.
__________________
Bethany
Wife to Mike, Mommy to Amelia (6/02), Sarah (10/03), Martha Grace (10/05), Rebecca Anne (12/07), Laura Catherine (3/10) and Reed Michael 7/4/14.
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Chris V
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| Posted: Feb 15 2010 at 10:22am | IP Logged
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Bethany wrote:
| I've gotten very sensitive about people thinking their "behind" or not doing enough. What's behind, aren't we all behind in some way in some area, or maybe no ones behind we just haven't gotten there yet? Who decided what had to be know at a certain age? That's has more to do with the process and system of school. It's an assembly line that believes you have to constantly insert little drips of information repeatedly in order for children to come out educated at the end of the line. |
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This is really well said! I really understand what you are thinking here and have been mulling over these same thoughts with my own family life. This is really something to ponder about.
Bethany wrote:
Oh well, I could go on forever since this has been on my mind so much recently. My biggest advice would be to not let one persons decision affect how you live your life with your children. I know it's hard and we all want to do what's best for our children. I just pray, trust, and hope that I will do what's best for my children because I love them and God entrusted them to me for a reason. |
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Thank you for this. My dc are still so young, and I'm a novice home-educator when it comes to the 3 R's ~ but getting rather good at modeling good life-skills to my little ladies  .
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Chris
Happy Wife with my Happy Life
Mama to My Five Girls ('04~'07~'09~'11~'11) 
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pigeonberry
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| Posted: Feb 15 2010 at 12:32pm | IP Logged
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Thanks ladies for your thoughts thus far. I wrote this post minutes before the forum was locked on Sunday so I had to spend some time to sit and reflect on what is bothering me. I think what it comes down to is our lack of routine in the home. I used to think that unschooling was a sort of "do whatever you want, whenever you want" approach to life. But what I have found in slowly becoming more unschooly is that this sort of learning feels lovely and right on the days when we follow a routine and there is structure to our day. Somehow we've lost that routine and in trying to get it back, I don't know how to arrange things.
I also understand the importance of pursuing my own learning alongside my children but what seems to be happening is that our individual pursuits oftentimes take us into different parts of the house so then were not relating as much as we did. (Of course she is 7 years old and more independent than the 4 and 5 year old she used to be). On the days we don't have a good routine, the family learning connection is lost and that's a vital part of unschooling; family connection. I'd like to plan a little time in our day where we come together and learn whatever it is we want, but sometimes my daughter digs her heels in because it takes her away from a project she is working on.
The nice thing about desk work is that it fits nicely into a chunk of your day. It's something you can check off.
And maybe I still have some "deschooling" to do myself but I have to wonder if it's okay that my daughter wants to spend the whole day illustrating storybooks of fairies and mouse tales (without words because she hates to write. She'll joyfully tell you the story orally though) while listening to Beatrix Potter and Narnia.
I don't think I'm making any sense. I should probably spend some more time thinking about this before posting.
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lapazfarm
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Hmm.Okay. Well, the one thing I see here that may be a problem is the thinking that unschooling means we each go our own way and do our own thing. That's not how we experience it here at all.
True, we lead by example. We need to be students, too, always learning new things so that our children see the joy of lifelong learning, and sometimes that means we are off in separate rooms (more and more as our children get older and go off on their own more).
BUT.
We need to be students of our children first.
Our primary job as unschoolers is to be available to our children, to be ready to provide help, encouragement, guidance, materials, etc. Unless we are right there closely observing them, making it our business to know exactly what it is they are doing and thinking, we cannot know what it is they need.
Unschooling is not easy and it isn't about leaving your children alone to grow up feral, feeling their own way from one thing to the next without parental guidance. I know you were *not* saying that, but that is the impression some people have of unschooling.(That isn't unschooling, it's neglect).
Far from doing our own thing, unschooling is about learning together,mostly. We explore together, we read together, we go places, build things, make and take apart, we find the joy in every little thing *together*. Sure, we have our own personal projects,but we need, as adults, to arrange our own time and our own projects around our children's needs, not the other way around.
I don't have this down perfectly by a long shot, but I have personally addressed this by setting aside the main part of the day (from say 9-3) to be available to my children for learning. I may have some chores to do that interrupt from time to time (a batch of laundry to fold, for instance, or I may pop online for a minute or two), but it is always something that can be dropped or that does not really require my full mental attention (this post has been interrupted probably 20 times, the last one to help dd compare the size of China and Australia on a globe), so that I am immediately available to my kids. (And I bring the laundry to wherever they are to fold it, and my computer is right there as well).I save projects that require more of my focus (say sewing or art) for the late afternoon or evening when the kids are just playing or watching a movie.
So, at this point, with so many interruptions this post has gotten rambly and off topic, and for that I apologize. But I hope at least I've given you a peek into what a successful (at least by my standards) and committed unschooling household looks like in real life.
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Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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KauaiCatholic
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Pigeonberry, thank you for starting this post. (and you're making a LOT of sense to me.) before I discovered this forum, I thought unschooling was an excuse to let your kids run wild and surf all day, since that was all I had seen IRL. learning about other experiences here has really broadened my horizons and made our homsechooling journey much more peaceful ... and productive, in the long run.
and one of the most important steps for me has been to stop trying to define what it is we do to other people. here, I might say we're more tidal or chunky, and know that people will understand. but really it's all a matter of degrees, isn't it? my chunkyness seems pretty unschooly to extremely regimented friends, so I tend to skim over the details when talking to them. (does that make me a chicken? well, I'm a work in progress.)
anyway, I guess I'm trying to say I understand and empathize with your struggle, but have faith in yourself and the decisions you make for your family. right now, we're in sort of a waiting-for-the-baby lull (is THAT unschooly? probably), so I have plenty of time to offer prayers for you and everyone else who is pondering these issues. hang in there!
ETA: while I was writing this, my favorite most-inspirational unschooler weighed in from Alaska. and even interrupted, she is an eloquent voice of experience. way to go, Theresa! you ROCK! 
__________________
Viviane
Grateful mama of Jonah Augustine ('01), Sophia Marie ('05) and Luke Dominic ('10)
We can do no great things; only small things with great love. -- Blessed Teresa of Calcutta
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teachingmyown
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I have been thinking about your post, and read a little on the blog you linked. I think you could look at it as the whole concept of "seasons" which we discuss on 4Real alot. We all have seasons where different things work. Sometimes, the very laid-back, unschooly approach results in a smoothly running home, mom and kids are happy and feel like they are all growing in some way. Another season would find every one a little restless, maybe looking for a fresh approach or inspiration. Maybe mom and/or kids just really wants a more organized study of history. Sonlight is perfect for this. It can be as involved or unschooly as you want.
I would consider us pretty unschooly. I use the term relaxed homeschooling. We do our own thing. We buy various curricula from year to year. I buy Sonlight about every other year. I often start off with the intent to "follow" the plan, and usually end up just reading the books. Basically, we try to take what serves our purpose and not worry about following it to the letter.
It is so hard when we look to others for direction, because every family is so different. I certainly understand your feeling of confusion. There have been numerous times over the years that I have taken a recommendation from a trusted source only to find a few months down the road that that source has abandoned the recommended book or resource or whatever! But that doesn't mean that the resource won't work for me, just like there was no guarantee that it would work for me if it worked for her.
A very hard learned lesson that I think many of us who've been doing this for awhile have learned, is that you just can't compare. You can't assume that what is working somewhere is will work for you. You can't assume that what you read on a blog is a truly accurate picture of what's going on in a home. Not because that mom is lying, but because she is putting her best on display, AND because she is thinking out loud. This post of mine might sound like I have the unschooly stuff down and you all should follow me, but the truth is that I spend a lot of time re-thinking, and tweaking, and even occasionally panicking and making huge changes. What I say today will have truth and value, but I may come to different conclusions down the road as children get older and situations change.
My point is (yes, there is a point!) to take inspiration where you find it, but follow your own gut feeling about schooling. This journey is very fluid and changeable. The beauty of embracing a more relaxed philosophy is that you can adapt to each new challenge.
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
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blueyondergirl
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Hello there!
I'm Stefani, author of the blog that you referenced here, Blue Yonder.
First, let me say that if you were here, I'd give you a big hug and tell you that the fact that you worry that you are so clearly invested in your child says so much about you as a mother. You are doing a good job, mama. Hang in there!
Second. it made me so sad to think that something I'd written left you feeling discouraged. That is exactly the opposite of what I hope to do at our site. I added a few sentences to our "how we homeschool" page in the hopes that it would clarify things.
I wrote that page because we often get questions about just what school looks like in our house... what books we use, how our days are spent, why we chose homeschooling, etc. I try to be very clear though that OUR needs and OUR path work for US. I hope that by talking about what we do it will encourage others on their own journey, but it isn't by any stretch of the imagination meant to be a formula for every family.
When we first started homeschooling I read everything I could get my hands on and in the end was left so confused. I was drawn to a classical style of education but then Charlotte Mason sounded so very like us and unschooling seemed so natural and freeing to me... I really had no idea which way to turn. So, I spent a good deal of time waffling back and forth between different ideals of the home education environment, and feeling awfully frustrated that we never seemed to measure up to any of them.
After a while though, we found what works for us, and then... as my children grew I've had to modify that a bit. What works for a while doesn't always work forever. If you are feeling some anxiety about what you're doing it might just mean it's time to reevaluate things. Perhaps what you've done up to now has been exactly right for you, but now you might be at a bend in the road. You know? Only you (and your child) can decide where "forward" is on your journey.
I didn't choose a curriculum because I felt like we were missing anything, or because I felt like what we were doing wasn't "enough" as you say, but because I felt like we needed some structure... a sort of scaffold on which to build our days, a jumping off point. I loved our homeschooling days, but they often left me feeling cluttered, unorganized and like a very UNtalented juggler. I wanted to retain the freedom and fun but somehow find a little organization in there too.
If you read our series of posts on choosing that curriculum, than you know that it was a long and very careful process of evaluating just what our needs were and just where we were headed. I wanted some structure, but I did not want our days ruled by charts and filled with unnecessary busy work. I didn't not want to squash all the zest for learning that lives in our home.
To make matters more interesting, I am working with very different personalities. My oldest LOVES marking off charts and lists. My middle son though RAILS against too much organization. In the end I involved them very heavily in the decisions about how we would educate ourselves (because I am learning so much too!). Just the process of deciding what and how to learn has taught us all a great deal.
My middle son agreed to try the CLP math, reading and language arts for one month even though it is very contrary to his tastes. After that month, he was ready to admit that while he doesn't always love it, he does feel like it's really helped him learn and he feels a real sense of accomplishment over the work that he has completed. So we are continuing. For now. He has learned that sometimes slow and steady, HARD work get him where he wants to go.
All of that said, I fully expect that the way we school will change as they grow older. More and more we are seeing that our boys have ideas of their own as to where they want their education to take them. So these decisions are always up for reevaluation. I try to be a guide, not a dictator.
So, I guess what I'm saying is that I think the most important thing you can do for you and for your child is to constantly ask yourselves if you are working toward your schooling goals, and if not, how can you better do that? Get ideas from other families, but in the end trust yourself and follow your family's own path!
And by the way... illustrating story books, narrating and listening to classic tales sounds like an absolutely wonderful and exciting day for what must be a very imaginative, bright little girl! I kind of think I'd like to join her!
My best to you and my wishes for many more wonderful learning adventures,
Stefani
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Bethany
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I went away after your last post Pigeonberry and was thinking how you described your daughter illustrating the stories and how wonderful that was, but how you felt sometimes seperated. I will say that everyday we have some (or a lot) of reading aloud. Most of this I choose and it comes from Ambleside Online. Then when the 2 yo is napping we tend to play a game, go outside, or do a craft, in general do things that are more difficult with a grabby toddler. This is my goal at least. I'm also in the waiting for baby mode, which definately has an effect.
I have to ditto everything Molly, Theresa, and Viviane said  . Our homeschool seems to change all the time. My oldest is only 7 but we have worked more traditionally with CHC, more classically with MODG, and everything in between. I can't tell you how many times I've longingly looked at Sonlight . I use to feel like I was a terrible waffler and couldn't make a decision. Now, I just embrace it as me trying to find what fits for our family. As everyone else said, it will probably change many times over during the next 18 or so years that I'll be doing this. I've very often wished I could just order Seton or Kolbe and just follow the schedule, but we've never fit perfectly in with the schedule so I always abandon it at some point.
I don't know whether I've helped or not, I just know first hand the self doubt that can take over. But I also think if we didn't have any self doubt, we probably wouldn't be doing a very good job.
__________________
Bethany
Wife to Mike, Mommy to Amelia (6/02), Sarah (10/03), Martha Grace (10/05), Rebecca Anne (12/07), Laura Catherine (3/10) and Reed Michael 7/4/14.
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pigeonberry
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Wow! What a blessing it was to me to receive these sweet replies to my posting. I want to thank each and every one of you for making my evening.
I've been pondering the responses quite a bit. I'm sure some of you can relate in that I didn't wake up one day and decide that we were going to be an unschooling family. The changes as the months passed have almost been imperceptible. I didn't really notice some of the changes until I re-read Melissa Wiley's posts on Tidal homeschooling. I couldn't relate to them the first time I read them, and now, just 2 years later and I find myself thinking how she took the words right out of my mouth!
In the same imperceptible manner, certain things have happened to shake up our routine which has affected negatively how I'm viewing our current home learning life. For instance, read-alouds used to happen at the breakfast and lunch table. It was easy with a nursing child. I've abandoned that now that I'm spending that time feeding him table food. And we finished our Math-U-See Alpha book, and stopped doing Math while waiting for the beta book to come.
At the same time, I'm really struggling with how to meet the needs of two children that are seven years apart. Learning out of books sometimes gets put aside to chase down a VERY active and curious 1 year old. (I know many women here can relate). When my first was born we didn't have a set routine for years! I see the folly in that and I'm trying so hard to have that for us now but old habits are hard to break. I've been reading a lot of Montessori and Waldorf and their emphasis on routines. By golly, I'm trying but I don't know whose needs should dictate the schedule, Fulton's or Bernadette's.
lapazfarm wrote:
We need to be students of our children first.
Our primary job as unschoolers is to be available to our children, to be ready to provide help, encouragement, guidance, materials, etc. Unless we are right there closely observing them, making it our business to know exactly what it is they are doing and thinking, we cannot know what it is they need.
Unschooling is not easy and it isn't about leaving your children alone to grow up feral, feeling their own way from one thing to the next without parental guidance. I know you were *not* saying that, but that is the impression some people have of unschooling.(That isn't unschooling, it's neglect).
Far from doing our own thing, unschooling is about learning together,mostly. We explore together, we read together, we go places, build things, make and take apart, we find the joy in every little thing *together*. Sure, we have our own personal projects,but we need, as adults, to arrange our own time and our own projects around our children's needs, not the other way around.
I don't have this down perfectly by a long shot, but I have personally addressed this by setting aside the main part of the day (from say 9-3) to be available to my children for learning. |
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Setting aside the specified time is what I think we need to do. When we were following a more regimented Charlotte Mason approach, I carved out 2-2/12 hours in the morning before lunch. My question is how do I go about implementing this in a delight-directed fashion? We walk into our learning room at a specified time and what? What do you do to get your kids asking questions? Am I making sense?
I have no idea how to quote more than one poster at one time so I'll have to save more of my thoughts for another post, which I'll write up tomorrow.
Again thank you dear ladies. And Thank You Blueyondergirl (Stefani)for taking the time to post on this forum. I wanted to comment on your post but it will have to wait till morning as my son is stirring. I have no idea how you found this post but I'm glad you did and my curiosity is leading me to learn more about the internet so I can find out. Learning never ceases...
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lapazfarm
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pigeonberry wrote:
Setting aside the specified time is what I think we need to do. When we were following a more regimented Charlotte Mason approach, I carved out 2-2/12 hours in the morning before lunch. My question is how do I go about implementing this in a delight-directed fashion? We walk into our learning room at a specified time and what? What do you do to get your kids asking questions? Am I making sense?
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First of all, we do not have a learning room. We have stuff all over the house. So that helps in that there does not have to be a break from regular household activity in order for learning to happen.
Second, after so many years of doing this, we just flow naturally into that learning mindset as soon as breakfast is done. The kids know that this is their time to get busy on projects, read, write, whatever.If they have trouble getting started (as youngers tend to do) I may remind them of an ongoing project they want to get back to, or if there is no ongoing work, I may offer suggestions or do some brainstorming with that child to get the wheels in motion.
Mostly, rather than "What do you do to get your kids asking questions?" it is more like, "what do I do to help them address all of the many questions they have!" LOL! They are naturally full of questions, and all it takes to get them asking even more is something as simple as a trip outdoors, a Discovery channel show, an interesting article, a good book, a beautiful picture...it could be *anything* to set them off on a learning tangent!
Once inspired, with my older son, it is simply a matter of keeping him organized and pointing him to resources he may want to use.
With my dd (age 8) who has a learning disability, it is a bit tougher. For her, my focus is on getting her reading independently (which may be a long way off)so that she can learn more through books she reads herself. In the mean time, I have to be her main source of information.I read to her a lot. And I try to help her find hands-on projects that will lead her to discover things naturally.
Other than that, we just do things together. As soon as the weather clears a bit, we have a trip to the Raptor Rehab center planned. Ds has asked the folks there about volunteering and they have said he is welcome, so we need to get that set up.Another friend has offered to take us out on a boat to a nearby bay to see the resident porpoises. We go to parks and identify plants, go to the seaside and explore tidepools, go to museums and historical sites. Last week we watched an Alaska Native man carving a traditional Haida totem pole with authentic period tools. Very cool! Tomorrow is a career fair for high school students and I think the governor will be speaking there, so we will be sure to stop by. Any and all of these are learning in and of themselves, and also great potential sparks for further exploration. Trust me, there is no end to opportunities to get your kids asking questions!LOL!
And I hope this answers your question a bit.
__________________
Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Unschooling Fear
