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teachingmyown
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| Posted: Oct 27 2009 at 1:47pm | IP Logged
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Or one similar?  Andrew Pudewa gives a talk on boys who would rather build forts than "do school", so I know I'm not alone.
I want to describe my son and get input on how to approach his academics. He will be 12 in December. He is officially in 6th grade. He read late, but loves to read and seems to have good comprehension. But he hates to do school, any school. He balks at every book, every subject, every approach. He does have a dysgraphia, where he has difficulty remembering how to make his letters. I can see where this might discourage him when it comes to writing, but he doesn't want to type, do math, read his religion book, etc. He wants to play soldiers and Legos. He wants to jump on the trampoline.
Yesterday, he found a snap-circuit kit that had belonged to his older brother and he had a great time with it. He will listen to read-alouds, and likes to read, although he resists things he is assigned to read. He says he likes science, but, of course, that doesn't mean he likes to read science books.
I am praying about whether to push him by enrolling in CLAA, which we have been discussing in other threads. Does he just need a clear cut purpose and something truly challenging? Or do I hand him a bunch of workbooks and say get it done and then you can play? Or do I keep waiting for him to mature and become interested in academics, meanwhile strewing a variety of books, magazines, videos, and science resources? I don't know what to do. His lack of academic work drives me crazy. His brother didn't like academics either and I pushed him to do what amounted to busywork (later he went to high school which also amounted to busywork) and he is now graduated and on his own but still isn't mature enough to balance his checkbook. 
I know boys, typically, want to play and be physical rather than buckle down and learn what we want them to learn. I have hung back for years with this kid, now I am wondering if the time has come that he needs a push.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
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Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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jenk
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No advice, but I'll be eagerly following this thread- I know 2 of these boys (14 and 8)... and they live at my house 
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Jen
with 2 boys, 14 and 8, and a girl expected 1/09
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melanie
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I have a boy like this...
This year, we have resorted to the workbook method,,,as in, having workbooks for at least just the basic subjects and he has to do a bit in each one before being "done". I'd like to plan more hands on history and science for him at some point, but in the meantime, at least I know he is getting a bit done. His workbooks go like this...
--Explode the Code
--Language of God
--Spelling for Young Catholics
--and then either a maps workbooks, Let's Learn Music, or cursive. One of the three each day, not all three.
We do religion in the morning all together after breakfast, and a bit of memory work then too. After lunch he has to read for 30 minutes, a book of my choosing..right now it's a Vision book about St. John Bosco..., and he has to do Aleks math for a bit in the afternoon.
Pretty painless, huh? Not to hear him tell it.
Oh, and I read aloud to him out of a history related book at bedtime, but he likes that.
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Melanie
homeschooling Maria (13yo), Kain (10yo), Jack (5yo), Tess (2yo), and our newest blessing, Henry Robert, born 4/23!
slightlycrunchycatholic.blogspot.com
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Erin
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This boy lives here but he is 14. Maturity will make some difference, he will now do maths. sounds so much like my boy who is also currently creating snap circuit wonders.
Oh and to make history painless I purchased an audio of Gombrich's 'A Little History of the World" apparently its not painless though but the best option.
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Erin
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Lisbet
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I have one of these guys to the extreme - except mine does not like to read. I do make him cover the basics each day - Teaching Textbooks has helped SO much for math - I can't even tell ya - worth every penny. We do catechism, math, spelling (workbook) each day. He tags along science experiments that his big brother does, and I do require him to read from a book that we generally choose together each day.
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Lisa, wife to Tony,
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Gabe, 13
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Molly, 6
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teachingmyown
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Ditto on the Teaching Textbooks! I wish they had one for each subject. I am half ready to buy the Abeka video classes and stick him in front of them. I have never seen them, mind you, and don't really expect that they are what he needs, but anything that could count as schoolwork at this point.
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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onemoretracy
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No advice, but this boy lives at my house. Only he's a bit younger.
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Tracy
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teachingmyown
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Okay, so this is common. So, what is it with us moms? Are we just not tough enough? Or are we doing the right thing supporting our boys to grow up at their own pace? Would these boys tow the line in school or fail miserably?
I remember a thread a while back about how children were expected to be mature so much younger in generations past. Someone referred to 12 year olds taking charge of ships or running a farm. I think my boy could probably take charge of a ship long before he could sit through a regular school day.
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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Lisbet
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Molly, I really try not to measure him up to 'school' standards. He's a very bright kid, better at some things than others. wish I had more time on this. Let me think on it and come back...
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Lisa, wife to Tony,
Mama to:
Nick, 17
Abby, 15
Gabe, 13
Isaac, 11
Mary, 10
Sam, 9
Henry, 7
Molly, 6
Mark, 5
Greta, 3
Cecilia born 10.29.10
Josephine born 6.11.12
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teachingmyown
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I try not to, either, Lisa. I wasn't very clear, maybe because my thoughts are not too clear.
I guess it's just hard because the girls seem to be doing something "constructive" most of the time and he is playing.
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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Milehimama
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My 11 yo is like this. What's finally working more or less is workbooks/workboxes. Workbooks for the very basics- spelling, language, and math. More "unschooley"/workboxes for the other. He has a "minimum" but can choose other, which we put in workboxes.
And he loves SnapCircuits, too!
Now, he was in sp. ed and is behind, so he's only in 4th grade. But it's working so far.
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JodieLyn
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Maturity isn't a single issue. You can be mature and be responsible, do your work (because it's active) and babysit and keep a level head in emergencies, and still have a difficult time sitting still.. you can also be immature and unable to care for yourself let along others and be able to sit still for classes..
A boy that needs to run a lot in an agrarian society would be a huge asset as a sheepherder.. He could be smart and fit in well.. but stick him in a modern classroom and he's a failure.
It's so much less or more (depending on how you look at it) than just maturity.. this ability to be able to sit still.. but maturity does help force yourself to do the things that you don't wish to do. Think of the toddler you have to hold down or he'd run away from getting a yucky medicine.. as an older child he could probably take the medicine and just make a yucky face.. maturity doesn't solve the problem.. the medicine is still yucky.. it just gives the child more ability to do that which is distasteful.
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G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
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melanie
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"Would these boys tow the line in school or fail miserably?"
Well, his father was just like him, and he failed miserably, all the way through. This is actually my nephew, we are his guardians, and his father is my brother. He failed all the way through school and droppped out at 16. Now he is 29 years old and earns minimum wage at Blockbuster, and we are raising his son. So...maybe it wouldn't be so bleak for Kain, but then again, Kain has lots of strikes against him that even his dad didn't...at least his dad was raised in a decent home. Not that Kain doesn't *now* live in a decent home. We are decent enough.  But he's had a rough start. It's awfully hard for these boys, especially ones that mature later than "normal", or that have gifts that are not so apparent in a classroom setting.
Don't I sound so mature and reasonable and accepting of this child? 
You'd never guess I was looking up the local school district's website after a morning of total desperation, would you? 
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Melanie
homeschooling Maria (13yo), Kain (10yo), Jack (5yo), Tess (2yo), and our newest blessing, Henry Robert, born 4/23!
slightlycrunchycatholic.blogspot.com
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teachingmyown
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Jodie, do you suggest holding them down for their medicine?
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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JodieLyn
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I don't know.. I don't know how necessary it might be for them. Not as easy as a toddler with a prescibed yucky medicine huh? It was just the first thing I could think of that helped give a picture of what I was thinking.. that maturity doesn't necessarily change them but that it helps them do something they dislike.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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SeaStar
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I have the 6 yo version. One small thing I have learned that has been helpful... I let him keep his hands busy during lessons. That means he zooms a car over his math pages and squishes playdough while reading.
Somehow that makes it all easier for him. Even when I read aloud I let him draw pictures... I used to think he wasn't paying attention but have learned that having something to do with his hands actually helps him focus more on the task at hand.
I have also read that chewing gum improves concentration during school work.
He still complains, but we have the understanding that there is no playing outside with his friends until all the school work is done.
I also show him the beginning and end of the work (ie, today we will read these 6 pages), and that helps a tiny bit because the end is in sight.
I don't ask him to do a lot, but I expect him to do the work without too much squawking. Some days go smoothly... some days are tougher...
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teachingmyown
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It seemed so simple when he was six. I really bought into the Moores' better late than early philosophy. I still do. I am just not sure how late is too late.
My plan was to do workboxes, and I do think that if I can get my act together that could work for him. The worst thing is that he disappears whenever we finish something and then I have to call him back and he gets so upset. The workboxes would show him exactly what is expected of him. I just haven't been able to pull myself together this year. Too much of what I planned requires for him requires me: Language Lessons, Writing with Ease, reviewing Faith and Life, Sonlight read-alouds. It's crazy with five students and the wildest pair of little ones along for the ride.
I like the idea of some core workbooks in the workboxes. However, whenever my kids do workbooks, like CHC, they seem to retain close to nothing, especially this son. So, it is almost like a little game I am playing with myself to ease my worry. "Here, Honey, do this grammar workbook and then you can go play even though we both know that you can do it without actually learning what is there." Is he not better off with some good books and time to play and mature?
This is really a struggle for me.
Do any of you fall on the side of a rigorous course of study with the hope that given something real to sink his teeth into, he may actually be interested and enjoy the sense of accomplishment?
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In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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JodieLyn
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Molly can you give him something active to do when you finish a subject? something that would ahve a definate end but would get him moving while you shift to the next subject.. then rather than him disappearing, you'd be sending him with him ending up back.. like here we live on a dead end street and I could send my kids to run to the end of the road and back maybe just around the backyard... and then snag them again.
It's a transition ritual type of thing.. but it would both give him a break and bring him back for the next thing.
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Jodie, wife to Dave
G-18, B-17, G-15, G-14, B-13, B-11, G-9, B-7, B-5, B-4
All men who have turned out worth anything have had the chief hand in their own education.
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Bridget
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This is all my boys. The thing is my older boys are clearly 'academics' yet they would still rather be building some contraption or something outside.
At 12 he does need to prepare for the transition to high school work. His high school work will affect his college or vocational choices and these choices will affect his ability to support a family one day. So he needs to move up to the next level of structured work and effort according to his ability and aptitude.
This can be tailored to his interests, 4 real style, but workbooks and texts can work. I have found that if I either sit with them for part of the workbook lesson or ask them to tell me about what they just worked on as they put the book away, it helps the retention level immensely.
I would only push/encourage a little in one area at a time and slowly move forward that way.
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Bookswithtea
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teachingmyown wrote:
Okay, so this is common. So, what is it with us moms? Are we just not tough enough? Or are we doing the right thing supporting our boys to grow up at their own pace? Would these boys tow the line in school or fail miserably?
I remember a thread a while back about how children were expected to be mature so much younger in generations past. Someone referred to 12 year olds taking charge of ships or running a farm. I think my boy could probably take charge of a ship long before he could sit through a regular school day. |
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It has nothing to do with us moms. In these societies, these boys would have schooled for far fewer months each year and they would have likely been working alongside their fathers for the rest of the year, or jumping into ponds from big trees. The amount of school that was expected of them was more intense and focused, but the bulk of learning expected of them was much much less. So it was easier to get them to focus on the important stuff. They knew their math facts well, but didn't have to know algebra, etc...
I don't know how they'd do in traditional schools. Epstein (The Myth of Adolescence) gives lots of examples of boys who drop out and then do amazing things in very out-of-the-box ways as adults (think Bill Gates). But I don't think there is something wrong with our boys. I think there is something wrong with our society that emasculates boys and forces them to *sit* for hours and hours, year after year. 
My now 16 yr old was like this. I would do things differently in the middle school years, having walked this road. Mine liked to read too. That helps tremendously. I should have switched to efficient, independent, more workbook oriented school with him around age 12. Instead, I tried to keep him on Sonlight style stuff. Big mistake. He found it discouraging because it never feels "done" to him. He would have never tolerated Structure and Style, but IEW's The Elegant Essay would have worked, or maybe the writing workbook they make that goes along with high school biology, for example. Teaching Textbooks did work. I should have given him the most interesting textbook I could find for history (something like History of US) and then given him readers, given him a list of what to do each day and then left him alone with it. Science could have been something like Jeannie Fulbright's texts that have chapters and clear finishes, but are more interesting than average.
For high school, The Teaching Company would have worked better than what I did, for both science and history. I used Kolbe's Jr. high lit program for 9th grade lit. and that went very well. I should have stuck with that model, just buying study guides that he could follow through on his own at a normal pace. He responds very well, for religion, by choosing 12 books on a variety of topics (think Scott Hahn, Patrick Madrid, etc), giving him 2 weeks to read the book and then one week to respond in a narration to it. Its possible to hit most of the main topics covered in high school religion this way, over 4 yrs, without ever cracking a text. Texts for religion would have been a fatal blow, I am sure.
What I missed was that he needed daily closure that felt very very closed. He needed efficiency (by contrast, think of Serendipity's gorgeous Victorian study where everything is interlocked and overlapped. This style drives ds crazy). Unschooling wasn't the answer at all. It only made things worse. So did Seton. While it is clear and independent, its not efficient. But picking one Seton subject would have probably been fine.
And in my ds's case, he needed something that felt like school. He absolutely hated it when I took a passion of his and tried to make him write about it, for instance. He saw that as me somehow taking over something that was a love and turning it into school. He wanted school to be school, done efficiently and quickly (like taking medicine) and then to be left alone to follow his passions the rest of the day.
Hindsight is 20/20. I wish I had figured this out earlier...
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~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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Topic: Do you know this boy?
