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Bethany
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| Posted: July 01 2009 at 12:51pm | IP Logged
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I know this post will probably seem all over the place, but I need help!!! My daughter just turned 7 in June but is not yet reading well. We originally started with LSLF but after a few books I decided she really wasn't ready and we dropped it for a while. Then last fall we started again, but during that time we also moved across country so a lot of things were put on hold while we packed, moved and unpacked.
Because of my own personality and temperment, I have decided, along with DH, that a set curriculum with a schedule would be best for us. So, I ordered CHC 2nd grade plans and books and it says you should wait on starting 2nd grade until they have completed LSLF. Well, we haven't finished it and I think it could still take us quite some time to finish. So, am I just suppose to wait to finish this? That seems a little extreme when she loves to listen to books being read and can learn so much that way. And how much reading practice can she really do in a day?
Then I thought again of MODG and looked at their 2nd grade plans. It uses Sound Beginnings starting with the very first lesson, which looks as if it might be beneficial for my reluctant reader.
Does anyone have any opinions or guidance? I'm very frustrated and feel a little lost. She's my oldest and unfortunately my guinea pig. At this point I feel like a complete failure in teaching her to read. I keep praying I'll have one of those mysterious children I've heard of who teach themselves to read  .
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Bethany
Wife to Mike, Mommy to Amelia (6/02), Sarah (10/03), Martha Grace (10/05), Rebecca Anne (12/07), Laura Catherine (3/10) and Reed Michael 7/4/14.
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SuzanneG
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Bethany~
We had this similar situation with my first dd, who is now 8....so I was in a similar situation a year ago. This is where a Charlotte Mason philosophy served us well!
Really, reading by themselves is such a small part of learning at this age. They can be exploring, doing nature study, listening to you read and narrating, drawing, copywork, memorizing poems, biographies of people....there is SO MUCH to do without them reading!!!
Unless a child is reading, workbooks are very time intensive for me, so we avoided them.
Here are some Charlotte Mason sites that we use:
Mater Amabilis - Level 1B
Simply Charlotte Mason Curriculum
Ambleside Online
Tanglewood
I know these are "purchased/set curriculums", and if that's important to you, then maybe it's not the way to go. But, you CAN make a Charlotte Mason education as structured or unstructured as you like. It just takes a bit more upfront planning on your part.....but it's very do-able, especially with the help of the websites above.
I'm hoping others will chime in about using CHC or MODG with non-readers.......
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JennGM
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Bethany wrote:
| Because of my own personality and temperment, I have decided, along with DH, that a set curriculum with a schedule would be best for us. So, I ordered CHC 2nd grade plans and books and it says you should wait on starting 2nd grade until they have completed LSLF. Well, we haven't finished it and I think it could still take us quite some time to finish. So, am I just suppose to wait to finish this? That seems a little extreme when she loves to listen to books being read and can learn so much that way. And how much reading practice can she really do in a day? |
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There have been many families with "late" readers on this board. Now, MODG has Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons for Kindergarten and sometimes First Grade, but very few people finish it all the way. It seems the child just needs things to "click", that magical "Aha!" moment, then they start to read. No use drumming into the child some facts when they can apply it by reading themselves. I'm a firm believer of phonics, but it should be a continual teaching, not just until they learn to read.
We used Sound Beginnings for Kindergarten for my son. He's a wiggly one, but he loves sounds and putting together the writing and sounds worked for him. He actually starting liking to write! We also used LeapFrog videos which really helped him. The BOB books were his first taste of reading, and then he was off. I try to give lots of books that interest him, so that he was motivated to try and read. That included comic strips, like Peanuts and other comic book form...he really wanted to read so as to read the funnies. Right now he's immersed in TinTin. I'm not worried, because he's reading everything else he can get his hands on. But you're right -- we read aloud all the time, too.
What is so crucial in LSLF that requires you to wait until it's done? Is it just the practice of reading? Some of the phonics rules? I'd try to communicate with CHC to ask some questions. If LSLF is just too hard and painful, you might lose her interest in wanting to read. Even though lesson plans state different things, remember how you are the teacher know your daughter -- go from there.
I don't do full Charlotte Mason approach, but I use the MODG syllabus as a skeleton for my planning, but then plug in different things that I prefer (like RightStart Math) and supplement lots of living books. I use those online links that Suzanne gave extensively for inspiration for the living books, and then other booklists for reading....
I'm sure someone else more experienced can jump in.
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Bethany
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| Posted: July 01 2009 at 3:18pm | IP Logged
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Thank you ladies for your help!
Let me add that this daughter has some perfectionist tendencies. Even as a toddler she would place a cup on the table, begin to walk away but decide it was not quite right and go back to adjust. My second two never did this, however, I just saw my fourth DD do the same.
We've used the LeapFrog videos and that is how she learned her basic letter sounds. She gets upset when we practice reading because "she doesn't want to make a mistake". I've tried to explain that making mistakes is how we learn sometimes and that it's no big deal, but she almost gets frozen with worry. And it's frustrating because she seems to be making no connections. Everytime we encounter a word, it's like she's never seen it before, even though it may have been in the previous sentence.
I'm just not very good at coming up with and following my own plan. I also feel as if we've had a "shotgun" type approach to reading and that has been the problem. I know in my heart that isn't the case and that there is no magical program that will instantly make her read. I'm just fighting Mommy guilt. I'm also worried since my 2nd DD is ready to start reading, that I don't make the same mistakes.
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Bethany
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Bethany
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Oh, and the reason for completing LSLF is that there no way she could read Devotional Stories for Little Folks if she didn't. If someones reading took off naturally they would probably not have a problem droppring LSLF.
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Bethany
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Alcat
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I used LSLF and my ds hated it! The print was too small. His reading eventually clicked around 7-8yrs. My now 9yrold dd isn't reading well. She is probably in a 2nd Step reader.
I did go back and do 100 EZ Lessons and finished it. This was very helpful. I am thinking about having her read the last 10 lessons again just for practice and confidence.
Sound Beginnings would be fine. She doesn't have to read- it's more phonics/spelling, and very well done- though intense. It will probably be helpful to you if you didn't get a solid phonics foundation (like me) in grade school. I still have SB and it is very good but we are doing AVKO spelling this year and will probably us SB in another year for my other dd and ds so they can get a heavy dose of phonics.
I now have three dc who I have taught to read (and am still teaching ) and what I have found for my crew is this: teach them to read- like 100EZ or LSLF, Bob Books whatever; then teach them formal phonics. The phonics does help them to read but it can become an end unto itself. Don't get hung up (like with Saxon Phonics) where you code everything, spell it, and then read.
I like MODG because it's easier to do with a non reader, but if your looking for a schedule you might feel that it isn't enough. I felt like a failure with CHC because they couldn't read (even my oldest) the Devotional Stories book in 2nd grade.
You might even look at something like Sonlight K or Core 1. It would give you a schedule but allow you to choose your childs reading level (the readers are sold as a separate package)
One trick that helps with my dd and reading is to read the story to her first so she won't get hung up on trying to understand while reading- I mean she will understand the text she just won't get distracted by wondering about everything. The other thing we do is alternate reading sentences or paragraphs- she reads, I read...
Hope this helps
Alison
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Bethany
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Thanks Alison,
Glad to know I'm not the only one who feels like a failure. Even in CHC's Lesson Guide they say that the reading is at a 3rd or 4th grade level. Well, she just turned 7, why should I feel like a failure because she's not reading like a 9 yo? We do have and started 100 EZ Lessons, but I found the strange print distracting. I did have a good phonics education, but it's one of those things that as an adult, I don't remember the rules, I just do it when needed.
I have thought about Sonlight because I could combine my oldest two together for most lessons (their only 16 months apart) and then choose the needed readers.
I'm just horrible at making decisions. I really thought I had made a good decision with CHC and I now hate that I'm questioning it, but I just don't think it's going to work as I would like it to. I also want to make a decision I can stick with so I don't fall into the trap of thinking there is something better every 6 months  .
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Bethany
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SuzanneG
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Bethany.....don't forget to go to the Living Language Arts forum and do a search for "late readers" or something like that.....you'll get all kinds of threads about kids reading later, which will be helpful. And, FWIW, I don't consider 7 a "late reader."
My first 2 girls are 17 months apart.....just like yours....and they actually started reading together at the same time, and they now do everything together......and it's GREAT!!!
And.....I never really taught my girls to read with a program....we started a few things, it never took off, or was too time-intensive for me.....I was always preg or post partum or something, something, something......and they both did just learn, with "direction" from me.....but certainly no formal instruction. We talked about the "rules" and sounded things out...whenever....and eventually they learned.
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SuzanneG
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JennGM wrote:
| ......but I use the MODG syllabus as a skeleton for my planning, but then plug in different things that I prefer (like RightStart Math) and supplement lots of living books. |
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I think that's how you have to look at MODG and CHC when there's no ind. reading going on at that point. And, a call to CHC is probably a good idea!
I'm imagining:
**skip the independent reading parts
**supplement more living books
**do something else for phonics/learning-to-read
Now, the problem with that is that you paid for a day-by-day curriculum to probably facilitate and lessen the planning.  And, half the things she can't do???? That's why I could never use those syllabi.....it's frustraitng .....but it seems like you can still use the framework of it, and then switch things out a bit. This is the great thing about home educating.....you are tailoring it to your child, but it is more planning and thinking 
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Marybeth
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This is what I did for my ds because MODG and LSFLF didn't work for us. I was very discouraged last summer at our lack of progress. I read extensively on brain development and learning to read. These ideas worked for us...
Review the alphabet and sounds (it sounds so basic but experts say sometimes children still don't know letter sounds at 9-10 years of age, sometimes even until 13 they aren't sure of vowel sounds in some words)
Make up games with rhymes (rhyming helps the brain develop pathways for reading connections)
Work on word families ie: bed,red,Ted,fed,wed,led
I had a poster from the local teachers store of word families next to a large white board. I had my ds read one word family per day out loud and then write the words on the board.
Phonics Pathways taken very slowly with much review. We still have 30 pages to go and haven't touched it since May.
Reading Pathways we did second semester. It is a shorter book than Phonics Pathways. The pyramid approach helped with confidence and fluency.
Ted
Ted read.
Ted read a book.
Ted read a book to Sue.
Ted read a book to Sue on a rug.
Ted read a book to Sue on a red rug.
(not an actually example from the book just an example of the pyramid form)
Writing a note each evening to my ds. It was something he looked forward to each morning. It helped me see how his reading was improving. I could work on words he struggled with and put some harder words in for decoding practice. He would surprise me with what he knew sometimes!
Sight words-we had three envelopes marked TO DO,REVIEW, MASTERED
TO DO- these were words to be introduced on Monday and reviewed daily until Friday
REVIEW-word which weren't mastered the previous week and had to be reviewed
MASTERED-reviewed occasionally
Ordinary Parent's Guide to Teaching Reading-this took us over a year and a half to get through...ds didn't like it but after ditching so many programs my mother's guilt made me hang on to this one!
We had to develop our own way as no formal program had all we needed for our ds. It was frustrating trying to pull resources. I am thankful for all the strides my ds has made.
God bless!
Mb
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Carrie A
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Getting my 8 yo ds to read has been a slow process over the past year. We also tried using the LSLF but he lost interest after a while. After a recommendation from a friend I tried the Explode the Code series of workbooks with my then 5 and 7 ds and they were a huge hit. I also noticed a significant difference in their reading after working with some of the books. They are not parent intensive and not reading intensive. The series is described as a systematic, sequential, and explicit phonics program. You can print out some sample pages from the publisher's web site, EPS, www.epsbooks.com to see how your child responds.
Hope that helps!
Carrie
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Mimip
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Bethany,
I really don't have any ideas more to add, but I wanted to give you support. My second daughter will be 7 in August and going into 2nd grade and can in no way read the Devotional stories for Little Folks and she did not like the LSLF. My best friend uses CHC for her soon to be 2nd grader but she reads fluently. This would not work for us. We ended up using a huge combo of so much that is already above. We are still using it and getting there little by little. I just read aloud to her and she is learning.
I want to send you a huge cyber  . I have a very good friend (a lurker here ) who jokes around with me that our children are the only "average" homeschooled kids out there. My kids test exactly average, year after year, and that is okay by me. I know it can be frustrating but it really will just click, maybe at 7 maybe at 10!
Good luck and PM me if you ever need some encouragement!
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In Christ,
Mimi
Wife of 16 years to Tom, Mom of DD'00, DD'02, '04(in heaven) DS'05, DS'08 and DS '12
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sewcrazy
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My almost 15 year old (this sunday!) wasn't reading yet by his 8th birthday. We used CHC and I simply read the stories to him and we discussed them. A bit of encouragement for you: He turned 8 in July -- couldn't read at all -- and by that Christmas was comfortably reading the Little House books. It just finally "clicked" for him.
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LeeAnn
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Bethany
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Thank you all so much for your advice and support. I do think that someday it will all just click and she'll be off and running. I have absolutely no doubt that she will read and read well, I just feel outside pressure, real or imagined.
I do think I will pass on CHC in favor of some combo of MA and MODG. It's going to require more of me to plan and organize, which is not my strength. I tend to be a more fly by the seat of my pants type, but I no longer can continue making it up as I go along. Especially, since I have a feeling my 2nd dd is going to need more structure.
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Bethany
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ALmom
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Bethany:
I'm just now seeing this but wanted to assure you there are plenty of ways to adjust plans - whether you do MODG or CHC. All of our readers have been late and I have used CHC for most in 1 - 3/4. I'm going to use MODG 4 with my current child. I never stuck strictly to a grade level and they moved as slowly or as quickly as needed. If we needed to substitute phonics work and delay other workbooks, we simply did more read alouds and did what we needed to do. MODG sounds like it might work for you, but feel free to substitute as you need to between plans and grade levels. I'm notorious for totally ignoring grade levels on texts, books and plans. It is all about what my child needs at the time.
IF you want to use CHC since you have it, here is what I've done: substituted for reading lessons, whatever we felt worked (used LSLF, Little Angels Readers or some other phonetic program - phonics always is what worked best in our house - and supplemented with things like games, etc. to build confidence). Skipped any of the workbooks (do my own math) until they are reading. Substituted something else if felt it necessary but usually we did things like art, or read aloud or learning games. I might notice things to talk about - ie rhyming words, etc. which they would hear in poetry. I read aloud to them from the stories assigned in whatever grade level until they were reading them on their own. We might discuss them as well. I generally did this on a day that said independent reading. I might let them dictate answers which I wrote down for them and modeled correct grammar (if I had time between therapy and 6 folks).
I picked the level of CHC dependent on whether or not it was a sacramental year for us. So if we were planning on preparing for 1st Communion, then I picked 2nd grade plans. If not, then I picked whichever plans seem to be the best fit between reading ability and interest. I freely substituted up in math or other subjects and at some point the children moved quickly.
When I look at this, honestly, we didn't do a lot of CHC stuff exactly but I liked their framework (reminders of blocks for the day) and I had room right on the paper, to mark in whatever we were doing. Probably cheaper to go with a different plan and get a lesson plan book - but hey it worked for us at the time because we had the plans and I really did love the sweetness of CHC stories and their supplemental things. I often borrowed from other plans I had. So we might do poetry from MODG - or I might get the idea and then use the memory gems in a similiar manner. I cut those out and laminate them from year to year so we aren't on any schedule.
Looks like MODG has more copy work - I couldn't do that with some of mine who had vision/visual memory problems until we could make them reasonably successful through therapy so I had to do other things. But this seems the perfect fit for a child who is just timid, late bloomer type and it is because of the copywork dictation plans that I'm going to MODG for my 4th grader who still doesn't like to write anything. I still may pull a thing or two from CHC but a bit later when the child is more confident and quick about things.
In our house the magic age seems to be 10 - eye skills come together then. We adjust and make sure there is a variety of good read alouds that we do in various areas and lots of hands on stuff to go along with my main focus of reading and math and religion.
I am one that must have plans for my and my childrens's sanity. I've been looking at Materabilis on-line too, but I'd have to break it down into definite days to do specific things just so I had a sequence (not to be a slave but a road map so to speak) so a lot depends on how much time I have by the time I'm working on plans for the youngers. There are some great helps there as well. In the end, my plans are always a patch of various things - from Montessorish to Kolbe and everything in between. My children just do not fit neatly into any particular philosophy or grade level - so we do what works.
Wish you the best.
Janet
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Lisa in WI
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Just a thought, is spelling easier for her than reading? I don't mean memorizing words, but sounding out a word and putting the letters down. My dd is not a visual learner. For about a year spelling was much easier for her than reading. Then one day her reading just took off. If you think this might be the case, something like Sound Beginnings or All About Spelling (which is what we use) might help. As far as perfectionistic tendencies go, this approach gives them all of the tools they need so that they don't need to guess. Good luck!
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Bethany
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Thanks Lisa!
I think she is better at hearing the sounds and then spelling the word. She's very much an auditory learner. I've really been looking at Sound Beginnings as that is was MODG uses and you've probably convinced me now.
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Bethany
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: CHC, MODG, & Reading?
