| Author | |
domchurch3
Forum Pro
Joined: July 12 2007
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 245
|
| Posted: May 14 2009 at 9:22pm | IP Logged
|
 |
|
Can anybody tell me their experiences with Kolbe or Seton for highschool? What are their differences? If one or the other worked well for your child, what kind of learner was your child?
__________________
Daniel's wife and mother to two children on earth, Bernadette (6 yrs old) and another child due in Jan 2009.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ALmom
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 18 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3299
|
| Posted: May 15 2009 at 9:46am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Are you talking about full enrollment or just courses? For me it would make a difference.
Seton is more like a traditional school of the 1950s, in a box. They have improved since I last used them in high school many ways, but they tend to have very specific ideas - in black and white about what the child should think which tends to annoy me and my children after a certain age in the courses like history and literature. They do have some great literature selections but the work is more answer questions that show that you read the book, rather than more thought provoking questions. There are the book analysis (which they call book reports). For some of my very strongly science minded folks, this may be ok in doses - but for my artsy kids with strong temperments it doesn't work. Seton also tended to be more cookie cutter in the writing and the comments back were vague. The religion was very heavy on straight memorization verbatim from the text. My oldest still says they almost destroyed her own natural writing style. Seton is not quite as ready to have the student do their own thinking - more like trying to pour it in their head. This is most problematical in their history which has a more triumphalistic feeling - and bookoodles of stuff to just memorize. It is somewhat less so in their literature, where the bigger problem is the only one way to write an essay mentality takes over. We did this a long, long time ago so it may have changed for the better but when we did it, they weren't keen on alternate, more interesting ways to introduce your topic, etc. It had to be there, clearly stated, first sentence. Someone who happens to agree with their point of view, who is more of a science learner and the kind of child who would do well in your typical brick and mortar school might find Seton a nice check off the boxes so I have time to just explore. I know folks whom being full time with Seton just relaxes their whole day. They tended to be more black and white thinkers where the black and white, good guys vs bad guys mentality didn't annoy.
I've found that Seton grammar and perhaps, depending on the year, a geometry course, are the most useful to me personally. I have used the less cut and dry courses from them with younger, science minded kids who need more help just figuring out how to write only long enough to get a feel for it and some confidence. When the children are in the questioning and weighing and don't want to be told how to think stage, I like to use Kolbe, with an occassional grammar or other single course from Seton.
Kolbe is very, very heavy on reading and writing. They can overwhelm with quantity of material and the lesson plans are much less easy to follow - they have so many different tracks all on the same plan. I generally rewrite any plans I use from them to sort out what we are choosing to do from all the other stuff. Seton's lesson plans are easier to use as is - actually quite simple if what they have suits your child. Kolbe is more flexible about allowing substitutions - though it looks like they are becoming less so if you want certain designations. I know both providers are grappling with that issue of accountablity and flexibility. Kolbe tries to preserve the parent as the final arbiter but also protect the integrity of the Kolbe transcript by the various designations. Ie if you don't follow their course plans, you can still receive a transcript from them, but they will have a K designation or H designation by courses that followed the specifics for those things.
Kolbe has great questions, many very thought provoking material essay assignments in every subject. They integrate what you are studying in theology with what you are studying in history and literature. This is very, very appealing to keep that integration going. Soemtimes, I think they are asking the students to read materials too mature for the age - not necessarily reading level, but life experience level or content inappropriate though never what I would call enticing. As a parent you will have to think carefully about your own child and whether or not this particular work is appropriate for them. You will also have to decide if it is really necessary to read every single book on history, literature and theology. These are very deep, lengthy and difficult reading. My very science minded folks might be overwhelmed trying to sort through this when they tend to miss nuances and such. Kolbe does allow a great deal of flexibility, although if you want certain designations on a transcript from them, you are more confined. I like the Enhanced evaluation service where I get one evaluator for the year. They mark up the children's papers with examples, suggestions, etc. My children tend to be very visual (or kinesthetic) so this is much more helpful to them and has improved their writing tremednously. I am not restricted to Kolbe's assignments but am free to have my children send in papers from books and paper topics I have assigned.
If you are looking for support in academic knowledge, Kolbe is great. If you are looking for help with finding alternatives to what they offer, neither place is great, though Seton probably has a larger pool of experienced homeschoolers on staff. Both places want to be genuinely helpful. Each has their own set of beliefs.
Seton's science was very silly and surprisingly used some textbook publishers that surprised me. I think they use Apologia now. Kolbe's texts are AP prep. but they do help in the plan notes to narrow down what you cover. You don't cover nuclear chemistry in 8th or 9th even if it is in the text. And this is true for both the regular and the honors tracks. My serious scientists will need the more serious science courses. My non science folks bog down in these but with a tutor and or help from Kolbe paring down to the real essentials, we manage to learn quite a bit.
Seton seems to think that you must do traditional style learning or it is part of the bad guy environment of relativism (at least that is the feel I came to. If we had trouble keeping up, their solution was to cut back outside activities which may be true in many cases - not in ours). They tend to be more familiar with parents limits in terms of background knowledge. Kolbe is catching up on this aspect, but honestly, many of their advisors are not experienced homeschoolers. They tend to have intimate knowledge of subject specialties so the person evaluating your writing is an English teacher - often someone with a Masters degree whereas we often felt like Seton used random moms to grade with a very rigid checklist since the grader was probably not much more experienced than I was. The history person often had his college students grade - and this resulted in some rather inconsistent grading patterns. Seton has to be more concerned about guarding their answer keys and such due to the way they are set up, so on history tests, we were never told where we lost points. Ie we couldn't learn from our mistakes which resulted in serious frustration for my child.
Seton is more set up where the students can learn to play the game without learning - it really, really depends on the child. Kolbe has been really good for us but was a total mismatch for one of my nephews - so again it really does depend. I think anyone who is not very quick reader, or who really hates to read would have real trouble with Kolbe high school.
Kolbe is set up in the classical mold with expectations that anyone in their high school has reached those higher stages. If not, if they are still at a different stage, then Kolbe will not serve well unless you modify heavily. They are doing more to help with background details in history, but their history is not a typical history course. It goes very deep in ideas, not necessarily sequential, though they do follow an organized and sequential approach to the time periods under study. When they use the Fr. Laux books - Seton has the students memorize all the lists basically (at least when we were with them) whereas Kolbe has you read the CCC and various relevant church doctrines and answer very thought provoking questions. You will not do well with just sheer memorization. You have to be thinking on a deeper level. With Kolbe, church history will be woven in as well - so in studying the Bible the students read huge portions of the Bible itself. I felt the pace was a bit fast if you really wanted reflective, prayerful reading. We divided it into 2 years - OT and NT. Oh and in the same course besides Fr. Laux, almost the entire OT and NT, you also read a couple of church encyclicals.
They do things like this in every subject. So in science, when it touches on areas (like evolution), you read the relevant church documents.
It is really an excellent way to learn, but you do have to be sensitive to the workload and to the child's readiness for some of this. I like that I can modify - demand more in areas of strength and do less but do it deeply in areas where we don't have those skills.
I am enrolled but do not get my transcript from Kolbe so I have a great deal of flexibility. I think, even with my modifications, I could get a Kolbe transcript. I just would have some courses that would not have K designations and probably none with H designation. I don't have my children do the paper in Geometry though they do everything else in the honors requirements for that course.
Hope this helps you some. I'd better go tend to my duty now.
Janet
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
teachingmyown
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 20 2005
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5128
|
| Posted: May 15 2009 at 10:25am | IP Logged
|
|
|
ALmom wrote:
Seton is more set up where the students can learn to play the game without learning - it really, really depends on the child.
Janet |
|
|
This is so true. It is very much the "memorize, test, forget" model. Even more frustrating is that the test answers must be straight from the textbook. The student cannot add any information that he already knows on a topic. It left me wondering if the graders actually knew the topic or if they just wanted to grade as quickly as possible so they would only accept answers that matched their answer sheets.
I had other issues with the lesson plans and the lack of consistency between what was written and what the graders actually expected.
The whole experience was frustrating.
I haven't used Kolbe high school, so I can't compare.
__________________
In Christ,
Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
Remembering Today
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
domchurch3
Forum Pro
Joined: July 12 2007
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 245
|
| Posted: May 15 2009 at 12:53pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Wow! Thank You for your responses. This is really going to help my friend out as she decides the best course to take for her son. 
__________________
Daniel's wife and mother to two children on earth, Bernadette (6 yrs old) and another child due in Jan 2009.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
5athome
Forum Pro
Joined: Oct 01 2005
Location: Texas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 351
|
| Posted: May 15 2009 at 9:27pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
One of my biggest complaints about Seton would be the lengthy time between submitting work to be graded and when it was graded and returned. The turn around is sometimes 3+ weeks! Following their schedul, we were often ready to take & return tests before the prior ones were returned which was very frustrating at the high school level.
Our favorite thing has been the English literature analyses (not the book reports but the actual literature that is studied in depth). My ds and I really enjoyed the Shakespeare section.
__________________
Margaret
ds '93, dd '96, ds '99,
ds '01, dd '04, ds '06,
ds '08
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Martha
Forum All-Star
Joined: Aug 25 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2291
|
| Posted: May 16 2009 at 11:33am | IP Logged
|
|
|
rather sheepishly chiming in to say...
I love Seton, esp their reading/writing/lit programs. It has freed my oldest to express his thought in written form, which does not come naturally or joyfully to him. The format given is very basic, standard, and will carry most students through college very well.
Submitting things online, the turn around is approx 1 week for me. Sometimes 2 if it hits during a high volume time, like the last weeks of May or right before Christmas.
I had/have all of Kolbe's 9th grade courses and materials and I really like them too. esp the lit/history, science, and religion.
I don't think either program is for everyone.
Both programs are very flexible and solid academicly.
I plan on using Seton's english/lit 9-12
I plan on using Kolbe's science and math 9 - 12.
We are waiting to see how this year goes with Kolbe history to see if it's a fit to continue with.
We are also doing Kolbe greek lit for the fun of it.
I am doing both Seton and Kolbe relgion for 9th because they overlap. We'll see which we prefer at the end of the year.
We are using Kolbe's science, which is VERY challenging for my ds, mostly because we have had a rather unstructure approach to science up to now and going from that to an AP level science textbook is a big adjustment. We'll go slow and steady.
I'm using LoF and either Jacobs or Lials for Alg 1. A student that is more math inclined probably wouldn't need both.
We're also going to do a basic biology for a semester for the fun of it. It will not be math heavy at all. Lots of disections and such.
__________________
Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Martha
Forum All-Star
Joined: Aug 25 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2291
|
| Posted: May 16 2009 at 11:41am | IP Logged
|
|
|
thought I'd add..
science has been a major struggle to decide on for me.
science is very tied to math level, so altho my son is not "behind" in math, he is not advanced enough for many courses that presume the student has completed alg 1 by 8th or 9th grade. many courses say the student can take alg 1 concurrently with the text and do well, but for this son, he gets very frustrated and bogged down trying to absorb both at once in one lesson/text.
so the plan is to let him continue along in his math a ways while we do the biology thing, then start the Kolbe science. That way his math is just enough ahead of the science that he isn't getting bogged down. I had considered not doing any science during that time, but he likes science and likes this biology idea and I see no reason not to encourage him.
__________________
Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MarilynW
Forum All-Star
Joined: June 28 2006
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4275
|
| Posted: May 16 2009 at 12:06pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
I do not have a high schooler yet - but have looked in detail at both Kolbe and Seton. My take:
- Seton is very very efficient and organized and helpful. They have spent countless hours on the telephone with me advising and giving information as I try to figure out what to do. If they say they are sending something - I have it the next day. I think theirs is a solid and challenging program. Drawback - very little room for flexibility and adding your own stuff in at high school level. Also cost as you pay extra for adding all independent studies to transcript. College counseling an advantage too.
- Kolbe is more in the classical mode if you follow their program closely. Very challenging and academic. If you want to do your own thing they are a lot more flexible - will produce a transcript with your own options.
Something I find interesting - my dd did a spreadsheet reviewing several high school programs - Kolbe, Seton, STAA, MODG, Sonlight. She is more interested in liberal arts and literature than sciences - and likes to have a say in writing her own curriculum. She has said that she would like to enroll Seton when she does high school - not sure why, but that is what she is saying?!
__________________
Marilyn
Blessed with 6 gifts from God
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Kolbe or Seton?
