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tracym
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| Posted: Dec 14 2005 at 10:32am | IP Logged
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Hi. I am new to posting to these boards but they look great. I am not sure if this is the right place for this post but I'll try. I have always homeschooled my children and would love to continue but am not sure if I should or not. My oldest ds is 8 and we have a lot of conflict with one another. He is not obedient or respectful to me. He also seems to have sensory and learning issues but is not diagnosed with anything. Well we did take him to an OT so we know there is sensory issues. However everyday it is a struggle to get him to do any work. Especially writing or reading. I try to do alot oral and to follow his interests but he seems to take advantage and throws fits if I ask him to write one or two sentences or read more than 2-3 pages in an easy reader. I am so frustrated that I end up yelling a lot. Which is good for noone of course and effects the whole house. I spend so much time seeming to chase him to get to do a little work that not much else gets done. I am at my wits end and my dh is saying send him to school. I really don't feel that would help with the situation except to "give me a break". But my dh is tired of hearing and seeing how my ds behaves. I think he is also below level of social skills. Or he seems to be to me. I don't really have anyone I can talk to about this so please don't mind the long vent. I am open to suggestions and would love to change things in my house but I don't know where to start.
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juliecinci
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| Posted: Dec 14 2005 at 10:55am | IP Logged
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Hi Tracy.
Welcome. This is a great place with lots of smart ladies with experience to help you.
I am thinking that either he is a normal little 8 year old boy (not unusual at all for them to not want to read or write at this age) or he does have sensory issues and trying to get him to do what you might expect of a "normal" child is unfair.
In the first scenario, I would just let reading and writing go. Really. Focus on making your days joyful and peaceful. Play games, listen to music, read books aloud to him, write notes to him (maybe make a treasure hunt for him to follow!), watch movies, build Legos, jump on the trampoline.
Do the things with him that bring him to life!
I remember when my now 11 year old boy was 8, he knew how to read but wouldn't do it and he didn't really start writing until last year at ten. But he would read online (gaming) and he now writes in a live journal online as well as posts to other gamers.
We played a game where I would have him and his little sister stand on chairs. I would hold up signs with the months of the year, the days of the week and so on. They would chant these and then jump off the chairs! We did a counting backwards game that ended in "blast off" and you guessed it, jumped right off the chairs again.
We covered lots of "basics" like seasons, colors, shapes, months, days, counting, skip counting by fives and tens, the alphabet forward and backwards and so on. Something about doing it while standing on a chair waiting to jump off as far and high as you could made it exciting.
We also did lots of writingon the sidwalk with chalk, or in the sand, or made words out of clay.
See if you can break out of the idea that you have to sit at a table and write or sit on a couch to read.
What if you left him a note on the bathroom mirror in lipstick every morning that told him a joke? He'd be reading that, I'll bet! 
If he really does have sensory issues, then you will want training in how to work with those at home. I would not put him in school. I would find out what the issue is and find out how to get the support and training I needed to work with him myself first.
Hth,
Julie
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Julie
Homeschooling five for fourteen years
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Taffy
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| Posted: Dec 14 2005 at 11:23am | IP Logged
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Hi Tracy,
Welcome to the boards! I know exactly how you feel except with my 8yo ds we have a diagnosis of PDD-NOS (autism) so I know for sure why he's got sensory issues and is behind socially. Fortunately, he likes to read but, unfortunately, he doesn't like to talk about what he's read (or talk much at all for that matter).
I agree with you, school will probably not help your son much and any break you might get will be ruined because you'll be worried about how your son is doing (at least it was that way for me). And, frankly, if the teacher can't get your child to mind, they blame you (the parent) and that just doubles the stress!
Julie has some great suggestions that I plan to use too. Before any learning can be done, we must have a willing student after all. Thanks for reminding me of this Julie!
I do have some suggestions for the sensory difficulties though. These two books are worth an interlibrary loan or purchase for dealing with sensory issues. The Out of Sync Child and The Out of Sync Child has Fun are very user friendly with clear explanations for some of our kids' baffling behaviours. They also have a lot of practical advice and activity suggestions for dealing with it.
Good luck! The battling is tough but, as my dh points out, no one is going to be more stubborn and dedicated to helping your son grow than you!
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Susan
Mom to 5 on earth and 1 in heaven
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~Rachel~
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| Posted: Dec 14 2005 at 11:32am | IP Logged
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Hi Tracy,
You know, there are a number of us in Virginia that you may be able to meet up with and vent to 
I second the 'drop it' idea... I think the place you may wish to start, is on instilling good habits and great character in your son. My son is 6, and he too has issues with obedience... so it is definitely at least partly because he is a boy even if there are other issues.
find out the things your son enjoys... start there with that as the jumping off point.
And feel free to vent any time... most of us do
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~Rachel~
Wife to William
Mum to James 13, Lenore 8
Lighting a Fire
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~Rachel~
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| Posted: Dec 14 2005 at 11:34am | IP Logged
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Oh... and for what it's worth... boys are notoriously bad at the reading/writing game... most homeschool veterans recommend letting them go at their own pace... when you find the key to getting him going, he will leap for the stars!
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~Rachel~
Wife to William
Mum to James 13, Lenore 8
Lighting a Fire
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Martha
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Well, I can pretty much guarantee it won't get better in a school. 
Have you tried taking the learning styles test for him that Mercy Academy offers? We're planning on doing this for our oldest for several of the same reasons you mention and I've heard raves about how helpfull it is from other moms in deciding what materials and methods work best with their children.
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Martha
mama to 7 boys & 4 girls
Yes, they're all ours!
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Willa
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| Posted: Dec 14 2005 at 12:11pm | IP Logged
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Tracy,
I was going to recommend the Out of Sync Child too, but Liz beat me to it. Anyway, if you know your son has sensory issues then it's worth concentrating on that in my opinion. A good school would do the same but it wouldn't know or care about your child the way you do. Sometimes the sensory issues can affect social and academic skills more than you'd realize. The Out of Sync Child book describes that very well.
I have a 6yo son with sensory integration problems. He is cognitively delayed so not quite in the same shoes as your ds. However, his behavior has improved SO much since his sensory issues have been addressed as part of behavior management.
Have you heard of the concept of Floor Time? The article I'm linking to is about "typical" kids though the floor time concept is used for kids with autism and sensory issues as well. But "floor time" can be used with any difficult child to build relationships and connect and build on interests. Whenever I'm having a difficult time with one of my children, it helps to connect this way. It helps defuse the tension and also gives me more insight into how they tick and how they learn.
Anyway, I'm very glad you posted and I hope something that has been shared is helpful to you.
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AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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Sarah
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| Posted: Dec 14 2005 at 1:07pm | IP Logged
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Tracy-
I just have a minute here and I confess to posting before reading what others have wrote so forgive me if I repeat the same ideas.
My son- 9 is like yours in many ways. We have a lot of conflict in power. I say do something and it is often met with not wanting to do it. I've decided that since he is my oldest, I didn't really understand that I was asking more of him than was reasonable. I have cut back a ton of what I've asked and he told me the other day- I actually like school, now Mom. Discipline should still be there, after all we are the parents and they are the children who do not know better than we do. . .and yes there are things he has to do that he doesn't like. I changed to start the day with his favorite subject-history read-aloud. I read for 30-45 minutes an exciting book, but I make it clear that after that he is to do some writing. I also changes the type of writing I expect from him. He copies several sentences or write from my dictation. I think that for an 8 or 9 year old boy-expecting them to write pages of creative stories, etc. is not realistic. Through this forum and listening to others I have learned also to be much more laid back and not try to do EVERYTHING! Maybe try a less uptight approach. Back off for a while. Ask him or try to figure out what works for him. I have a 7yo boy who learns well through art-type stuff-i.e. creating, looking at things, etc. Maybe find a great book to read, not expecting him to write, and and have him listen and discuss only. Afteral part of the Language Arts are speaking, listening (and then reading and writing). If I were you, I'd try to establish a happy environment first (it won't be all hearts and roses, though-that' reserved for heaven, ). When my ds9 absolutely despised writing from Serl's Language Lessons, I decided that maybe he would write about baseball since he loves that. He dictated to me about the World Series and then over a course of three-four days (a paragraph or so/day) he recopied it and loved it because he could think about his games. T
here's a CM book, of course I forget the name, that says to give your child
1-something to do
2-something to think about
3-something to love
everyday.
At first I thought this was impossible but I've come to figure it out.
For us it is usually:
do:
project like making christmas ornaments (ds9 is doing that now with simple paper & crayons)
think about:
a great read aloud. We're in the middle of He Went with Magellan
love:
for my kids its baseball and their new baby brother. I foster the love of baseball by allowing them to watch archive games on the Major League Baseball website. My computer is out in the open and they never search the web. This March when the World Tournament comes on we'll follow it and we're going to make flags for the teams, find their locations on a map, etc. . .you get the idea. There are many loves a boy can have. Some kids love animals.
hope this helps
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Six boys ages 16, 14, 11, 7, 5, 2 and one girl age 9
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TracyQ
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| Posted: Dec 14 2005 at 5:47pm | IP Logged
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Hi Tracy! Welcome to our boards! It's nice to meet you.
My name is Tracy too, Tracy Q. I'm a homeschooling mom in our 11th year of homeschooling in a suburb of Buffalo, NY.
I have something else for you to think about regarding your son. I too agree that I don't think it'll get any better in school. As a matter of fact, I think you're the best one to deal with your son's difficulties.
Some of what you have mentioned rang a bell with me, as we have a son, who's now 13. He was having trouble with many of the same things you are having with your son. We were at our wits end, not knowing what to do. Someone, a homeschooling friend of mine mentioned that it seemed our son was struggling with many of the same things her son was.
They had her son evaluated at the Behavioral Optometrist, and he was found to have vision learning difficulties. We took our son to the same doctor, and he indeed had visual tracking, and sequencing problems.
After vision therapy, our son has improved SO much! He still deals with some difficulties, but when we're diligent to keep working with the therapy at home, it is much improved!!!! He is SO much better now! His reading has improved tremendously, and his self esteem as well!
You can read about it at this website Children's Vision and there is a syptoms checklist list there, to help you decide if you think this is something that your son may be experiencing or not. And there is lots of information there as well.
I have lifted you in prayer as well, so that the Lord will lead and guide you in finding what is His will for your son, and to lead you to find what will help Him. Pray, and trust in His leading, and He will indeed lead you to what's best for your son. He did for us, and I trust in that completely!
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Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
 homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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JSchaaf
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| Posted: Dec 14 2005 at 8:26pm | IP Logged
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Hi Willa-
I loved the article about floor time-I didn't know my parenting style had a name! I first started doing it when I was pregnant with #2. Near the end, my first was just 10 months old, I would get down there for floor time and not be able to get back up!!
I need to continue it now that they are older. It was easier when they were babies-I have a harder time now "getting into" their imaginative play. (sometimes I just don't want to be the cow escaping the barn, kwim??)
Jennifer
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tracym
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| Posted: Dec 15 2005 at 9:01am | IP Logged
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Thank you all so much! I have done alot of research and I do honestly feel he is better at home(but not if I am mad at him alot!) But my dh needs more convincing. He wants to see work Allen has done. He doesn't like that I let Allen do oral work or not push him alot in writing and reading. So that adds to my stress. The OT did suggest we get his eyes checked and we just took him to a regular eye dr. who said nothing was wrong. However he does complain about there being too many words on a page or too many math problems. If I find easy readers or write his math out for him one at a time it is much better. I have read the out of sync books also.
So I think what I need is to work on is my attitude and not complain to my dh. I love the idea of the 3 things everyday. And I agree that I think our family environment needs to change. While he may need some extra help- we all need to work on it. Thanks! I just feel like I've been keeping a lot inside and that is why I am wondering if I am doing the right thing.
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~Rachel~
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| Posted: Dec 15 2005 at 10:24am | IP Logged
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Tracy,
We all wonder from time to time, if we are doing the right thing... because we care about what is best for our children.
Perhaps it would be wise to sit down with your Dh and speak frankly to him... ask him how school would benefit your son. Ask him what his concerns are. You can point out that, in a class of 32 other children, it is unlikely that your son's 'problems' are going to be 'fixed' in a public school, and even in a class of 15 in private school... there are 14 other children to occupy the teacher's time!
It may be a good idea to ask your son to 'tell Daddy' the things he did today... skim through the forums (I saw a great post yesterday about a different style of reader and how they learn) and find out all the information you can
use the Charlotte Mason method of narration... copywork need only be a very small sentence... why not let your DS pick it ...
follow your DS's lead and I am sure you will figure it out
The best advice I heard was to prioritize everything... take the things you think are most important, make them short and sweet and daily. hth!
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~Rachel~
Wife to William
Mum to James 13, Lenore 8
Lighting a Fire
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ALmom
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| Posted: Dec 15 2005 at 10:15pm | IP Logged
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A regular eye doctor may not find subtle vision problems. Since the OT recommended vision testing, I really would find someone who is specializing in vision develpment. The PAVE website has a contact number for finding someone in your area. Also check the phonebook and look for C.O.V.D. after the name, especially if it is a fellow. Be persistant about finding the answers. We went to four local eye doctors before we finally found one 3 hours away - but he actually diagnosed our dd, showed us exactly what he saw and referred us to local help for therapy while still working with us. The time and effort made a tremendous difference for all of us.
Before vision therapy, our dd could not do Math unless it was 5 problems on a page that I wrote out very big! She could concentrate for a total of 5 minutes (on good days) and was still struggling to read at age 10. Trying to learn to print the alphabet was really a chore - almost every letter, she reversed and often reversed numbers as well (21 and 12). There were a few years that I prayed no one would challenge our education, because most of the day consisted in doing therapy. I did religion orally, read aloud to her and had her do the 5 Math problems. We made it - but it was through the support of our vision therapist that I was able to be confident that we were not doing the wrong thing by having such a "light school."
I really think that having a diagnosis is a real aid - not to label the dc, but to be able to know how to work with them. In our case, this meant a complete correction of the problem with no further therapy or extra work involved. Many tried to diagnose our dd as ADD and Apraxia - neither was the correct diagnosis and I knew it in my heart because they weren't addressing all the symptoms and I could tell they were just placing a label on her for lack of anything certain. Then we got the diagnosis - it explained everything I had observed and we knew where to go to help our dc.
Perhaps your dh would be happy to give you time to do things as you are until you have a diagnosis and a game plan. A heart to heart talk with honest expression of your fears, struggles and the needs of your dc. Be kind to yourself, too. Working with the unknown is tremendously stressful - and under that kind of stress, we generally find it difficult to be at our best. We're quicker to anger and impatience. We will pray you find all the answers and support you need.
Janet
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TracyQ
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| Posted: Dec 29 2005 at 12:43pm | IP Logged
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Yes, it was our optometrist that referred us to the behavorial optometrist that did the evaluation and therapy for our son Zach.
It has to be done by a specialist, not just a normal optometrist. It wasn't his VISION that is the problem, vision problems and vision learning problems are two different things.
It has to do with the way the eyes are connected to the brain, and each person's is unique it seems. For a child with vision learning difficulties, there's is even more unique, and there are problems with the connections that need to be corrected through vision therapy.
Tracy
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Blessings and Peace,
Tracy Q.
wife of Marty for 20 years, mom of 3 wonderful children (1 homeschool graduate, 1 12th grader, and a 9th grader),
homeschooling in 15th year in Buffalo, NY
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Advice please
