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MarilynW
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| Posted: Dec 15 2008 at 6:58pm | IP Logged
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I know that this has been debated many times and many ways - but I am really wondering about how much structure? My boys like to get their work done and then get on with the more important business of building forts, fighting with swords, playing soccer etc. If I do not have their schedules and plans ready - they will read (they are eager readers)and do their musical instrument practice - but are not over motivated to do much else.
So I have figured out that they like a plan and schedule - they can check it off and move on with life.
I spent most of the past summer writing detailed lesson plans for everyone - I am wondering about the next summer with a newborn and a toddler - it seems that buying some kind of curriculum or lesson plans would be wiser. I even wonder about enrolling - just as a motivation to them to get their work done.
Any thoughts? I figure that maybe with boys it may be better to use an off the shelf curriculum and make sure the boys do the essentials, than risk them not doing enough because I am out of commission.
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Marilyn
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Philothea
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I think it sounds like you know what works for your boys, and you know your impending limitations ... go with it and don't overthink it. They will do great!
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Shari in NY
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I have found this to be true, Marilyn. We are using more workbooks this year than ever before and it has really been a great year so far!
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Bridget
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Having a list to check off and be done with it is typical for my boys too. However, my high schooler (age 15) has been writing, researching and going deeper in his studies on his own lately. A love, or at least interest, of what he is learning seems to have kicked in.
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Rachel May
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Marilyn, I was just thinking about you and praying for you again!  My boys seem similar to yours: very good workers when given direction.
I have found just having a syllabus from MODG saves me a lot of time in planning and costs less than enrolling, and I love having them to fall back on when other things need my attention. My boys like structure too, and in most of the subjects I like the resources LB chooses and the way she uses them is much smarter than I would think of. We still do unit studies as the spirit moves us, and I don't use everything exactly as written. It takes me 1- 1.5 hours Sun night to write all the lesson plans for the week.
This year for 4th grade we are using her: religion, grammar, history, poetry, geography, music appreciation, and art mostly as written.
I have gone my own direction with science, math, Latin, spelling/phonics and musical instruments.
I have come to understand that the things in her syllabus which seem pointless are usually part of a greater plan which reveals itself over several years. Those "pointless" exercises are not filler, and waiting until later to introduce something that other kids learn at a younger age is not an oversight.
That's my $.02 I hope it helps.
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Angie Mc
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My boys both enjoy having a checklist that helps them to know what they are doing and when it is "done." I use this for specific skills that I want them to learn during a particular season. I keep these skills to a minimum and rotate them in order to leave plenty of time for their "free time." My boys at ages 13 and 9 still need a ton of physical activity, time to take initiative on their own projects (forts, volcano making, cooking) and PLAY...I'm mean, they're like puppies, especially with their 3.5yo brother  . Perhaps you can consider doing what you are doing but without the detailed lesson plans. Pick the skills you want them to focus on, figure out which material you will use, set an amount of time to be spent on each, call it a day:). Leave the broader knowledge acquisition to living books, dvds, stories on tape, discussion, etc. I'm amazed at how much my boys absorb and feel that their broad education is coming along nicely.
If you are concerned about how to handle the constant motion, clutter, and noise of this approach...how to find peace among a pack of boys...that's another topic that could be brainstormed too .
Praying you find a good fit for your family, Marilyn.
Love,
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MarilynW
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Thank you all for all your great ideas. I really want my guys to "be boys" and gain ideas from living books and nature and play etc - but I also worry sometimes as there is a basic grounding they must have. When I am on top of things - we do well, but with the hyperemesis I feel things have slipped. They really are good boys - get all the chores, music and basics done, but at least one gets frustrated without a detailed plan. And they so need the roughhousing and outside time.
I have been reading and listening to Boys Should Be Boys
It really is excellent - and I do not want to quench their 'boy qualities' with an overloaded scheduled day - but on the other hand they do need the discipline of good school work too.
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Lisbet
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It's a difficult balance to strike Marilyn. There is also so much pressure for them to do so much academically because they will (most likely) need those skills to support a family some day. (ahhh, to have the ole days of the family farm back!! )
Try to remember too, that God not only sent you this baby in this season of your life, He sent her/him to your sons too - kwim? This is a season in their life, and a new sibling is part of this season. So don't be so hard on yourself! 
That book was on my list recommended from Amazon - I've not read either of her books yet, though they've come with glowing recomendations.
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MarilynW
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| Posted: Dec 16 2008 at 3:33pm | IP Logged
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Lisbet wrote:
It's a difficult balance to strike Marilyn. There is also so much pressure for them to do so much academically because they will (most likely) need those skills to support a family some day. (ahhh, to have the ole days of the family farm back!! )
Try to remember too, that God not only sent you this baby in this season of your life, He sent her/him to your sons too - kwim? This is a season in their life, and a new sibling is part of this season. So don't be so hard on yourself!
That book was on my list recommended from Amazon - I've not read either of her books yet, though they've come with glowing recomendations. |
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Lisa - I have been trying to pm you - your box is full. Thanks for all the advice
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Marilyn
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Lisbet
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Thanks Marilyn - I emptied it!
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Connections
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My boys do not thrive on a schedule. I started reading this and worried that I am getting it wrong because I do not provide check lists, etc. (I happen to love checklists.) Then I had to remind myself that we need to take our children where they are at and take them for who they are. So, I calmed myself a bit and stopped pondering the making of a list that starts tomorrow!
You know your boys. Your boys require a schedule and they like to know they have completed their work for the day. Since they like a plan and a schedule I would say you should try a curriculum (provided it meets your needs). Sometimes there is great value in NOT reinventing the wheel.
BTW, thanks for mentioned the book Boys Should be Boys.
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Tracey
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melanie
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I second the suggestion of MODG...we use the syllabus too, but we are not enrolled. We plan to be when my oldest is around 8th grade though. Anyway, even if you drop things from it to just focus on the basics, it is nice to have that syllabus as a "back bone"...provided you want one of course! Not everyone needs that, but I do.  I also like that, especially in the younger grades, the syllabus really is just the basics and leaves plenty of time for all that great fort building. We are using the sixth grade and third grade syllabi this year, and my third grader is done with school by lunchtime still. My sixth grader usually needs about an hour after lunch, but she still has more downtime I think than other homeschoolers of her age that we know IRL.
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ALmom
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Marilyn W,
My boys like checklists OR a few of them would only do one subject without this. They are very physical and creative and I never want their time to be so overloaded that they do not have the time to pursue things in their very hands on, non-bookish way. However, some of them, (1 in particular) would not pay attention to anything he deemed irrelevant (like vocabulary, grammar, writing or literatute and some of the math directions until it bit him in the foot in science) if I did not require it. It is a balance to provide the guidance and demand the attention to detail appropriate while letting their creativity still have its reign and not stifling what is so wonderful about the way these boys do things.
I have found a specific lesson plan very helpful - it keeps them on track and they feel free - not tied to mom's apron strings so much. I consult them on the plan as well as dh, of course. I do not have time to plan every detail of every subject for every child and do therapy and ... I find lesson plans from curriculum providers very, very helpful. However, it has always been a disaster if I feel like I am tied to these plans in every subject. I think the most important thing is that you are able to look at the plans and see how much of it you see as being helpful to your boys and a good fit considering the circumstances. I don't know you or your boys so I couldn't begin to say which provider might be a better fit, but I would say to look at the actual lesson plans of each you might consider and consider that you might put different plans from different places together like a puzzle.
One thing we did is sit down and think about what would save me time. I don't need plans in math - the text pretty much provides that so my lesson plans indicate x amount of time spent in math. For the science fan, I don't feel any obligation to follow a plan and we do science according to this child's inclinations and interests. His request was to do Kolbe Physical Science so I do the Kolbe plans for this. If he had not specified a text, I still knew he'd learn plenty here so I simply would have given him some sort of minimal time for science and to do it after other things. I know him and if he had his way, he would do science 24/7 and leave almost everything else by the wayside. He creates his own ideas, I just have to have resources around and anything works for this. History, I've been following RC History and already have that - I specify books to read, specific activities like time line stuff and a history notebook page (I let him know about how much is minimal for me to accept it and since this is just now beginning to become interesting to him and he is not a writer, I printed out the picture pages, asked for dates and a few sentences in summary of why this person was significant. If it was part of religious history, I wanted to know the connection to secular history and if it was secular I'd like to know a bit about how it interrelates with religious history. Then I give him some resources and idea books and set him free on projects for a week or two. Basically I used some loose plans for sequence and books and have a booklist in each section. As we assessed things, I found giving him Kolbe religion tests 1X per quarter keeps him at least a bit more attentive as he reads and lets me know what we need to spend more time hands on with. So I have plans here - just not from the same source as other plans. Literature/writing was the one area I felt we were just not getting and I was overwhelmed with this, especially as I saw how difficult it was for him to say anything more than a 1 sentence, these are the facts, period. We signed up for Seton's reading only course. This has been a help and huge time saver for me while narrowing in on some areas that really need work. The workbooks, though somewhat dry, are gently teaching him to think differently for literature. We do plenty of real reading so I'm not worried about him having to work through the reader. He is enjoying it okay and it is much easier to teach some of his lacking skills with this easier material. He still reads plenty of living books in history and for the book reports required. That is the other bonus - someone else will give feedback on his lengthier writing. We jumped in halfway through the year. I am not trying to do the whole year this year. I simply like having the sequence, specific instructions and someone to hold him accountable for the one course he was weasling out of with me  .
I don't have a baby, but we have been looking at some other learning issues with a different child and therapy is taking quite some time. I cannot do everything. However, if I think about what I really need, then I don't get bogged down in the stress of living up to a plan I don't like (which is a bigger stress for me than doing the planning, even when planning time is short). However, I cannot plan everything from scratch or I'd never get past planning.
If I saw a plan that mostly fit, didn't require you to do a bunch of busywork to keep up with it and which you saw benefitting your boys, then I'd go for it. I'm sure what each person picks will depend on the child and parent and where the help is most needed.
I use CHC with the 3rd grader, combo Kolbe, RChistory, Seton and unschooly for the 6th grader, mostly Kolbe and RChistory for the 8th grader and a wing it for the 6 yo. with a specific time of the day that I sit and do read alouds, some one on one time (may be Montessori or games as the day unfolds) and some painting,clay, music or some such. (Next year I'm sure we'll be doing some CHC stuff)
All the boys go outside at least 2 X per day unless the weather is just totally uncooperative.
Janet
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Shari in NY
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Connections wrote:
My boys do not thrive on a schedule. I started reading this and worried that I am getting it wrong because I do not provide check lists, etc. (I happen to love checklists.) Then I had to remind myself that we need to take our children where they are at and take them for who they are. So, I calmed myself a bit and stopped pondering the making of a list that starts tomorrow!
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Blessings,
Tracey |
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This is very true, Tracey! Using some workbooks is working for us this year but it certainly hasn't in the past. At twelve the twins are a little more motivated than they have been. It definately depends on the boys and the age
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Leonie
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We have routines or pegs instead of schedules - schedules just haven't worked with our seven boys!
But we are unschoolers with a Latin-Centred Curriculum twist. So, today, for example, the kids are doing bedroom tidy up, Maths, reading a book about a saint, helping out in our parish to set up ther nativity scene, helping out at my work - the rest is free!
I use post it pad checklists - write out what we have agreed needs doing that day and they work through at their own pace where possible.
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monique
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Leonie wrote:
We have routines or pegs instead of schedules - schedules just haven't worked with our seven boys!
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Oh my gosh! I bet I could learn a thing or two from you. Do you or did you have one that refused to do most types of schoolwork? If so, what worked?
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Leonie
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monique wrote:
| Do you or did you have one that refused to do most types of schoolwork? If so, what worked? |
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I think we hve had it easier because we never really have pushed a lot of schoolwork. Tried to have very minimal academic have-tos and even those get dropped when and if necessary.
We do a lot of chores and family things and strewing - and following kids' interests and passions. Yes, even when it was Star Wars for one whole year.
We visited the Star Wars exhibition here yesterday and promptly came home, dragged out some DK Star Wars books and put them on display. They zre not schoolwork but they'll be read and perused over this last week of ASdvent - lots of science and technology there. So, our schoolwork doesn't really look like schoolwork, iykwim?
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Leonie in Sydney
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Homeschooling boys - how much structure?
