| Author | |
tovlo4801
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 28 2005
Location: Minnesota
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 386
|
| Posted: Sept 15 2005 at 9:26pm | IP Logged
|
 |
|
OK. I'm resolved to spend more time this year listening to my son's interests and seeing where they can lead us educationally.
I'm looking for advice on how far to support one of his current interests. He has mentioned for a while now that he'd like to be in the military someday. Our recent trip to D.C. really emphasized that interest. The Air and Space museum was fascinating to him. He was especially captured by the war planes and the stories told of war by the tour guide. The Spy Museum grabbed him with stories of espionage during various wars and all the weaponry.
I can see an angle into understanding history of various times by using his military interest. It will probably help with math and science as well. I'm sure we can find lots of angles for reading and writing. It might even be motivation for learning a foreign language.
I want to support him in his military interest, but I'm also reserved by faith concerns. I know many of you guys are military families. Can you help me reconcile in my head how to interact with my son on military things?
I understand the sacrifice people in the military make to keep many safe. There are certainly virtues to be cultivated there. Yet it also involves the potential for taking lives. I don't want to be idealistic or allow him to be overly idealistic. I worry that the fascination with war and weaponry could lead to an insensitivity to taking of lives. How do I balance this?
I don't think his interest is bad and might truly be a calling for him, but I worry about how to balance it with an honest faith and respect for life. Help?
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Leonie
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2831
|
| Posted: Sept 15 2005 at 11:49pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Just the other morning, my youngest son came to chat to me, while I was folding laundry, about war and killing in self defence and the concept of just war. We looked at the CCC for references.
My eldest ds was war obsessed for many years.  This eventually transformed to a love of history and politics.
I think that balancing out war discussions with books like the Catechism of the Catholic Church helps.
My dh is in the military and these discussions and references help him, too.
Leonie in Sydney
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Tina P.
Forum All-Star
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1638
|
| Posted: Sept 16 2005 at 1:24am | IP Logged
|
|
|
tovlo4801 wrote:
| I understand the sacrifice people in the military make to keep many safe. There are certainly virtues to be cultivated there. Yet it also involves the potential for taking lives. I don't want to be idealistic or allow him to be overly idealistic. I worry that the fascination with war and weaponry could lead to an insensitivity to taking of lives. How do I balance this? |
|
|
My husband is just about to retire from the military. He has never had to be involved in taking a life. There are those who are strictly in the medical field *saving* lives, lives of friend and foe, who are military. Living a military life means you live in a military town. The whole town is made up of people who are in *every* field, from food service to flying F-16s. There are military veteranarians, doctors, dentists, rescue response people (military helped save, supply, and reposition Katrina victims), navigators, you name it. The combined Armed Forces is the largest employer in the world.
Many of these people never see war efforts. So perhaps you can pull it into perspective that way. Looking at it from this angle, the military doesn't seem so militant after all, does it?
__________________
Tina, wife to one and mom to 9 + 3 in heaven
Mary's Muse
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ALmom
Forum All-Star
Joined: May 18 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3299
|
| Posted: Sept 17 2005 at 12:58am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Those that hate killing most are the ones that are veterans and have seen action. They really know the costs and would not be quick to go to war. Movies tend to glorify and sanitize the reality and I would be most cautious here. Our sons were immensely interested and still are with a lot that is military, and I did have to learn to relax a bit (at one time toy guns of any sort were never seen in our home - but the boys used plastic hockey sticks as rifles) and realize that some of that is helping them develop a chivalrous nature as the defender of the weak. Since they seemed especially fascinated, we encouraged them to ask about their grandfather's WWII experiences. When they had seen a war movie they would ask their grandfather if things really happened like that. He shared a lot more than just the event - we learned things that he had never talked about before and he would make comments that really made the boys think.
Janet
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
asoldierswife
Forum Newbie
Joined: March 07 2005
Location: Georgia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2
|
| Posted: Sept 19 2005 at 7:34pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
My husband is a soldier, a tank commander, deployed right now to Iraq. I have seen videos and photographs of things he has done. I probably have a harder time reconciling it than he does. I know they go out of their way to avoid taking innocent lives or damaging property. I don't know what I really want to say here...I guess that he is fighting against bad people, people who don't care about innocents, people who only want to cause fear and destruction. No soldier takes it lightly. As our dear priest said a few weeks ago, no one prays more earnestly for peace than the soldier.
My four year old son considers manhood to be the point when he can shoot a gun and drive a tank. He looks up to his daddy, as do I, and am both proud and afraid that I will be praying for my soldier for many more years to come.
With love,
Jennie
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
tovlo4801
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 28 2005
Location: Minnesota
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 386
|
| Posted: Sept 19 2005 at 8:10pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thank you all so much for your responses. It's a difficult line to walk and I appreciate the sensitivity that you all obviously approach it with. I agree that discussion and study of just war would be good for both my son and me. After 9/11 when there was so much discussion of war, I theoretically considered much of this. I have to admit that while I practically understand the need for military to defend us, I somewhere deep within me resonate with those who say it just has to stop somewhere. Logically I don't see how not defending will do anything but leave us defenseless. But when I really think on scripture it does seem like maybe that is we are being asked to be. At the time I just sort of let my internal conflict slide into the background without resolution. I guess my son's interest has just made that conflict within me more personal.
I've never been a parent who was vigilently anti-violence. We've allowed toy weapons. My husband is fascinated with the idea of knighthood and the protective sorts of male ideals. That has certainly transferred to our kids, but I think at least for right now the interest is just that blowing up things is "cool". I might feel a little better about it if I thought it was motivated by a more heroic ideal.
Jennie, thank you so much for posting. I appreciate your words and I honestly think your husband is a hero, too. Thank him for our family and know that we will include him in our prayers.
God Bless,
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
guitarnan
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Maryland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10883
|
| Posted: Sept 20 2005 at 8:10pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Janet really says it well. My husband is in the Navy and was a targeting officer in the first Gulf conflict. He had many, many long discussions with the Catholic chaplain on his ship, as they worked through the issues everyone's brought up here. As we hit the 20 year mark as a military family, we are even more convinced of the sacredness of all life, and the moral imperative to preserve it whenever humanly possible. Respect for life doesn't begin and end with abortion and euthanasia...everyone's life is important.
Having said that, I also would like to point out that I'd rather have officers like my husband in charge of conducting any war we might find ourselves in...people of faith, people of moral strength...rather than trusting all decisions to politicians who've never been to war, or to generals who are only thinking about advancing their careers. (Don't worry, this is a generic statement, not a political one!)
Our chaplain in Italy pointed out something that I had not thought of, too...chaplains go to war with the military members to serve as a moral compass, especially for the decision-makers. Being a chaplain is, of course, about saying Mass, etc., but it's way, way more than that. Please remember to pray for all military chaplains, as they are held to the highest of standards while performing the most difficult job of all.
In some cases we must unite to defeat a greater evil. I was raised in a totally anti-war family, but I can see through my experience as a Navy wife that sometimes we must try to rid the world of a terrible threat. I know of no military member who wants to go kill people, but I know many who believe our nation is at risk and are willing to put their safety on the line to defend our beloved country.
I try hard to remember Our Lady's message to the children at Fatima. Pray the rosary for world peace. Pray that hearts may convert to Jesus, so that our world may be freed from the evils of war and oppression. Ever since Saddam invaded Kuwait I have prayed for him, and I've prayed for terrorists since 9/11. Only God can change their hearts. All we can do in the meantime is keep our loved ones safe, hard though it might be.
On a side note...my son loves military history. It has helped him remember world and U. S. history, Church history, geography and much more. I try to present a balanced approach and am offering lots of literature (Farewell to Manzanar is an example) to show that every conflict has several sides, and that there is never one right answer or one right solution when lives are at stake.
Thanks for everyone's considerate and thoughtful replies. I really appreciate being here, where folks realize that sensitive issues are, well, sensitive.
__________________
Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
tovlo4801
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 28 2005
Location: Minnesota
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 386
|
| Posted: Sept 20 2005 at 8:55pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
guitarnan wrote:
On a side note...my son loves military history. It has helped him remember world and U. S. history, Church history, geography and much more. I try to present a balanced approach and am offering lots of literature (Farewell to Manzanar is an example) to show that every conflict has several sides, and that there is never one right answer or one right solution when lives are at stake.
|
|
|
Nancy,
First of all, I really appreciate all you said. You made such a good point that had only been floating in the back of my mind until you said it. If there must be military, then better that it be guided by people with moral convictions who wrestle with what God would want.
You are also right about the solution being found in prayer. Maybe this is a wake-up call for me (and my son) to become more vigilent about praying for peace. Including him in regular prayer for peace and those in the military might just be a wonderful way to bring balance to his interest. Thanks!
On a more practical note, I'm interested in the military history suggestions you have. That's sort of what I had in mind as far as tapping this interest for educational purposes. I especially love how you approach it with your son. It sounds like we'd be on the same wavelength. My son is 12. Where would you direct us for good military history?
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Willa
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3881
|
| Posted: Sept 20 2005 at 9:55pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Leonie wrote:
| My eldest ds was war obsessed for many years. This eventually transformed to a love of history and politics. |
|
|
This sounds so much like my second son. We spent hours and hours when he was very small discussing "good guys" and "bad guys" -- so many moral issues came up over years and years.
His battle interests translated into studies of the Civil War, the American Revolution, the Napoleonic War, the USSR, Roman history, the Crusades, then ships, history of aircraft, and countless other areas. He made up a science-fiction universe and wrote newspapers of their battles and "cold" hostilities. He designs his own swords. The spin off possibilities have been very extensive. Yours will probably be very different. It is exciting to follow, and I've learned a lot through the years that I wouldn't have pursued on my own!
I guess the main "theme" I tried to keep on the table was the duty of the individual to act rightly (and that's where the Church's teachings have been of key significance as well as the ideas of other "righteous" men), and more broadly, the moral issues at stake in war -- understanding the issues in more than a kneejerk "good vs bad" manner. Also, the issue of human liberty and dignity comes up again and again in the military field -- what IS a just war, what issues are important enough to war about, how do the clashes between different worldviews play into it, etc.
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
guitarnan
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Maryland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10883
|
| Posted: Sept 21 2005 at 2:23pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Richelle,
We've been doing U. S. history since this time last year and are now on WWI. We plan to get to the present day (and hopefully do a civics review) by the end of the school year.
Here are some of the books I'm having my son read:
Sgt. York's autobiography
Eddie Rickenbacker's autobio, Fighting the Flying Circus
Farewell to Manzanar
The Borrowed House
The Story of the von Trapp Family Singers
Bud, Not Buddy
October Sky
The Watsons go to Birmingham, 1963
Some of these books are below his reading level a bit, but I'm trying to get him to learn to read with a deadline (rather than just divert onto Star Wars novels like he wants to). This is to prepare for high school reading quantities. I tried to find books that showed different points of view, especially about WWII, without graphic violence.
We're tying in geography by using Uncle Josh's map CD to print outline maps for him to fill in. Next week, after he completes his WWI timeline, my son will do a WWI map (with cities, battle sites, etc.) of Europe. My son's pretty visual, so I'm trying to find a kid-friendly DVD to watch about WWI. I'm sure WWII will be a challenge in that regard.
When one studies U. S. history, it's pretty hard to avoid studying wars, really. I think it's different with world, European and Church history. However, you can do things such as study fortresses and castles as part of medieval history (and maybe find virtual tours on the web, or build a castle at home). For ancient history, you can tie in the development of armor or something like that, or warships (Greek triremes!). There's even a website out there that has paper cutouts you download and build; we did a Viking ship a couple of years ago.
When we did medieval history 2 years ago, we studied the topics at hand, then did hands-on projects that were tied to sub-topics (like the Viking ship) that my son enjoyed. We went online and looked at armor at the Metropolitan Museum of Art's website. We enjoyed this approach and I've kept with it for U. S. history.
Does this help?
__________________
Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
ladybugs
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3732
|
| Posted: Sept 22 2005 at 10:03am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Leonie wrote:
| My eldest ds was war obsessed for many years. This eventually transformed to a love of history and politics. |
|
|
Good morning, all...
This is what I am noticing with my eldest dd. She loves playing a computer game called Age of Empires/Age of Kings...It has so many groups from history that we take the ones that she is interested in and study those. Her current favorite to learn about is Genghis Khan. We're going to begin tracking weather from Mongolia's capital to graph, she's working on a Genghis Khan word search that we made up here http://puzzlemaker.school.discovery.com/...I see her pick up various history books that we have from Usborne and just read.
Just adding our experience in the hopes that it helps someone.
God Bless,
__________________
Love and God Bless,
Maria P
My etsy store - all proceeds go to help my fencing daughters!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
tovlo4801
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 28 2005
Location: Minnesota
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 386
|
| Posted: Sept 22 2005 at 11:51am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Nancy,
Yes! That helps a lot. Thanks for all the suggestions.
Willa,
Thanks for the themes to keep in mind.
Maria,
I'm so glad you mentioned this. My dh and son were looking at a new game of this coming out and I thought it seemed like it would be pretty good, but I was actually going to ask for advice here. Thanks for beating me to the punch!
We prayed the rosary today for military people and peace. I talked with my son about it and I was so heartened by his depth of understanding. He looked at me very seriously and told me how no war is good. He agreed emphatically with my brief description of just war and seemed very on board with the idea of praying for peace. I was so proud. I think we're going to be just fine.
God Bless you all!
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
guitarnan
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 07 2005
Location: Maryland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10883
|
| Posted: Sept 22 2005 at 9:22pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
My son adores all the Age of Empires games. They're pretty good, historically. Also, sometimes you get to be the "bad guys" (non-Western army); interesting perspective shift when you compare the game to textbooks. I do know that playing this series of games has helped my son remember lots and lots of historical events!
__________________
Nancy in MD. Mom of ds (24) & dd (18); 31-year Navy wife, move coordinator and keeper of home fires. Writer and dance mom.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
momtomany
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 17 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 505
|
| Posted: Oct 10 2005 at 10:07am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Chiming in late here, but I my oldest ds is military. He always had interest in history and the military. We didn't allow guns, and have no one in our family that ever was military but he always had that interest.
He eventually joined the National Guard. At the time, pre-9/11, I thought that was a safe choice. But he was deployed to Iraq for all of 2004. Through the grace of God, he is home safe now and back in college.
I had no knowledge of the military before, but I have to say that I was very pleasantly suprised by him when he got back from Basics and Infantry School. Great leaps in his maturing process. I kept waiting for it to wear off. But the military has been very good for him. Army values and all. Code of conduct, etc. He takes all of that very seriously. Overall, it has been a very good experience for him. I could have lived without the deployment in Iraq, but we have discussed it many times since he's been back home and he does feel that it is a worthwhile cause. Just my .02 
__________________
Mary Ann in PA
wife to MIchael, mom to Elizabeth, Becca, Tim, Peter, Andrew, Sarah, Matthew, John, Leah and Joseph
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
Forum Locked) 
4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: how far to go with a military interest?
