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MicheleQ
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I don't know if this is the right place for this so please feel free to move it if it fits better someplace else. 
I hear a lot about these two books and I am just about to hit the "buy" button on them but want some input of WHY (or why not as the case may be) I should read them.
One is:
The Latin-Centered Curriculum
and the other is
A Thomas Jefferson Education
I like to read, I like reading about educational philosophy. So would I like both or either of these books?
Thanks!
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Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
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teachingmyown
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Well, there was a whole thread on the Latin-Centered Curriculum not too long ago. At the beginning of the thread, I put the book in my Amazon shopping cart. By the end, I had taken it out. Elizabeth made some very good points about the book.
I personally love the book A Thomas Jefferson Education. For me, CM is an ideal, a sort of romantic way of educating that has never quite become a reality in my home. TJEd comes across to me as more concrete. The book is inspiring, not just in terms of the how, but the why of homeschooling using classics and mentors.
It isn't revolutionary. I would say it is a mix of classical and unschooling, certainly not far off from a CM education of living books. But it was a fresh perspective, and I use the book to remind myself why sticking with homeschooling is so important.
Gotta run. Hope that helps some.
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Molly
wife to Court & mom to ds '91, dd '96, ds '97, dds '99, '01, '03, '06, and dss '07 and 01/20/11
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JuliaT
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I have both books. I can't tell you if you should buy them but I can tell you what they are like and if I liked them.
LCC is based on the book by Tracy Lee Simmons --Climbing Parnassus. The basis of LCC is to give you a practical look at how to give your child a traditional classical curriculum. It is the trad. classical version of The Well Trained Mind. Campbell ascertains that you need only to have math and latin as the foundation of your curriculum and the rest is gravy. If you get to the rest that is great, if not, it's not a big deal. The other thing that is controversial about this book is that Campbell advocates not doing a separate grammar curriculum. If you are doing latin, you do not need any more grammar.
TJED is based on 7 principles on how to give your child a leadership education. You can apply these 7 principles to any method or philosophy of education that you are using. They are of the 'later is better' mindset when it comes to academics.
Of the two, I found TJED to be more beneficial. I found it inspiring. I have taken the points from TJED that resonated within me and have incorporated them into our learning time.
hth,
Julia
mom to 3 (8,6,4)
http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/Juliainsk
p.s. I have written a series on TJED on my blog. It's in the archives for April if you want more info on it.
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stefoodie
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No time to write long, but here's my take on it:
TJE did not appeal to me, mainly because we're already doing a lot of this in our homeschool -- there wasn't a lot that I could take away that was new to me. Many of the things in it that I wasn't aware of before we started hsing, I had already picked up from Classical and CM educators here at 4Real, at the CCE and CCM lists, etc. So I'd say TJED for a beginner homeschooler who's still thinking through their educ. philosophy. Or someone rethinking their methods.
LCC puts in practical terms what CP contains. But if I had to choose I'd pick CP (okay, I know that's not one of the 2) because it enabled me to put my finger on exactly why I would want (or not) a classical education in our home. CP answers the question WHY. LCC provides the HOW. At this point in our hsing I needed the WHY answered. But if you want the HOW go with LCC.
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stef
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~Rachel~
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I have both books...
TJEd... that is not all there is to it, in order to get the most out of it, the other books by Oliver and Rachel DeMille are needed. It does adequately outline his theory, the other books give more practical advice (I think they are Core and Love of Learning, and A Thomas Jefferson Education in Our Home BTW).
I know there is a new TJEd book out there the TJ Home Companion. This might have the rest of the books in it... I know there was a forum discussion on it somewhere...
LCC... this is a great read in that it is a good guide to 'how to do a climbing parnassus education'. CP is a tough read though... it takes a lot of focus (or just plain early morning reading) to understand it (not a light read, I couldn't get it if I read it in the evenings... too tired  ).
Depending on whether you want the how or the why, then as Stef said, you can choose between them
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Mare
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MicheleQ wrote:
I like to read, I like reading about educational philosophy. So would I like both or either of these books?
Thanks! |
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 I recently ordered both of these books for that very reason. In my opinion, if you lean towards a classical education, you may enjoy these books.
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Bookswithtea
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Mare wrote:
| In my opinion, if you lean towards a classical education, you may enjoy these books. |
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Thank you! Now I don't feel guilty for not reading them.  I just can't get excited about classical education compared to the CM books I've read, even though there are so many similarities. I have a hunch part of it is personality/temperament.
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Blessings,
~Books
mothering ds'93 dd'97 dd'99 dd'02 ds'05 ds'07 and  due 9/10
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Willa
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Ditto what Stef said.
CP was a good read. LCC is more nuts and bolts, curriculum to use, and formal-academics-oriented. As for TJE..... If you've already been hsing in a family-centered way for years and years, TJE seems sort of like restating the obvious -- though some of my veteran friends enjoyed it because it affirmed what they were already doing by instinct and trial/error.
I like reading educational stuff, too. I bought CP, but read TJE and LCC through friends' copies -- don't have them on my shelves. For me it's nice to be familiar with what's out there. I did buy the TJE Home Companion because it was said to be more practical wisdom than TJE itself; so far haven't gotten around to reading more than a chapter or two.
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Willa
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MicheleQ
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| Posted: Aug 03 2007 at 10:46pm | IP Logged
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JuliaT wrote:
| Campbell ascertains that you need only to have math and latin as the foundation of your curriculum and the rest is gravy. If you get to the rest that is great, if not, it's not a big deal. |
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OK scratch this book off the list I totally don't agree with that. CM wouldn't either.
JuliaT wrote:
| The other thing that is controversial about this book is that Campbell advocates not doing a separate grammar curriculum. If you are doing latin, you do not need any more grammar. |
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Well I do agree with this - but I already know it - don't need a book to tell me. 
Actually I think I'll skip both books. I already feel confident in our method. I just thought I might find them interesting and well, I might but there's so many other things to read . . .and so little time!
Thanks everyone for the comments. You saved me a few bucks!
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Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
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knowloveserve
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Never underestimate the benefits of a public library either!
I've read many educational philosophy books by borrowing them from the library and only a couple have been good enough that I want to buy them.
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Ellie
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MicheleQ
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knowloveserve wrote:
| Never underestimate the benefits of a public library either! |
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Oh I agree! I love using my library. But ultimately my question was why should I "read" these books. Because there are a lot of good things to read and only so much time. . .
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Michele Quigley
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cathochick
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I have LCC and love it!
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Jessica
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MicheleQ
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| Posted: Aug 06 2007 at 12:53pm | IP Logged
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Can I ask why? I have heard many people say they like it and I am curious.
Based on what Julia wrote
JuliaT wrote:
| Campbell ascertains that you need only to have math and latin as the foundation of your curriculum and the rest is gravy. If you get to the rest that is great, if not, it's not a big deal. |
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I cannot agree with this as it goes against what a true liberal arts and a truly CM education would include as necessity - MANY living books.
BUT, maybe I'm not understanding it correctly so I'm open to understanding better.
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Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
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mariB
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Maybe because Campbell says it's not necessary, makes reading for enjoyment (read alouds and booklists) and all other subjects so much more enticing. Get my drift?
It feels more fun when you don't HAVE to. It helped me to loosen up. But your curriculum and book suggestions are quite freeing anyhow...
After reading LCC, we have stopped using Seton for highschool which is a big step for us if you knew me. So LCC was quite freeing for me. This is only my perspective though.
Although following lesson plans has never been my preference, I much prefer a guideline instead. I like to fluctuate within a plan... and i can't shake the Latin!!! Something inside me keeps prompting us forward with it.
I like Campbell's suggestion that you wouldn't drop math because it was difficult so why not treat Latin in the same manner?(In my own words)
Just my thoughts:)
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MicheleQ
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mariB wrote:
| Maybe because Campbell says it's not necessary, makes reading for enjoyment (read alouds and booklists) and all other subjects so much more enticing. Get my drift? |
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I understand what you are saying and I can see where that could work that way for some. . . but for others (some boys I know in fact ) it would be a really easy excuse to just not do it. But I just think the value gotten from books is FAR too great to be missed.
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| It feels more fun when you don't HAVE to. It helped me to loosen up. |
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OK sure I can see that - anything feels more fun when you don't HAVE to. But, if it's worth doing. . .well, I'd prefer to train myself and my kids in the habit of self-discipline. I don't mean that as a criticism, just that sure it may work but it's like a way to trick yourself into doing something you should be doing anyway. Something that really should be done for its own sake. I just read something from Fr. Schall last night that explains what I mean, actually he's quoting Richard Weaver in his essay "Lee as a Philosopher" "The notion that obligations are tyrannies, and that wants, not deserts, should be the measure of what one gets has by now shown its destructive power. We have tended to ignore the inexorable truth that rights must be earned. Fully interpreted, Lee's 'duty' is the measure whereby freedom preserves itself by acknowledging responsibility. Man, then, perfects himself by discipline, and at the heart of discipline lies self-denial."
Quote:
| But your curriculum and book suggestions are quite freeing anyhow... |
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Well thank you but really I am just trying to get a handle on this premise.
Quote:
| After reading LCC, we have stopped using Seton for highschool which is a big step for us if you knew me. So LCC was quite freeing for me. This is only my perspective though. |
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And I respect that, truly I do, because ultimately it has to be about what works for you and your family.
Quote:
Although following lesson plans has never been my preference, I much prefer a guideline instead. I like to fluctuate within a plan... and i can't shake the Latin!!! Something inside me keeps prompting us forward with it.
I like Campbell's suggestion that you wouldn't drop math because it was difficult so why not treat Latin in the same manner?(In my own words) |
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Well I'd use the same argument for literature. You don't drop it because it's hard. We talk about this with our kids. Sometimes it IS hard. All that reading and for the older ones reading stuff that really can be a challenge sometimes - but I have gotten them to understand (at least I think so - I hope so) that it's worth it - it's important. And SO many times what starts out as something being done because they have to ends up being a joy, a really worthy endeavor. They gain so much from a book they didn't want to read and/or resisted me on. But they trust that I think it's valuable and so they try...and that's important because I REALLY stress that I can only offer knowledge to them, THEY must be the ones to work for it.
This mindset has really changed things for us here. Their education is their responsibility. Mine is to make it available, to set the atmosphere and give them what they need as best I am able but ultimately they must choose.
And like you Maria I can't shake the Latin thing either, BUT if I had to choose between Latin and Literature - Latin would be gone. Fortunately I can choose both!
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Michele Quigley
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cathochick
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The bit about saying that only Latin and Math are essential isn't quite accurate. That's his plan for a "bare bones" day and isn't supposed to be the norm.
I like it because my first real homeschooling book was the Well-Trained Mind and it was overwhelming. I like that Campbell strips down the tremendous amount of classics to a few essentials. I like the emphasis on Latin (rather than as an optional side dish). Even Designing Your Own Classical Curriculum seems more of a "let's do it ALL!" book.
The scope and flow just seemed to click for me. But take my opinion with a grain of salt as my two are currently too young to implement most of what he says.
I just think that it's a worthwhile read to compare to the "cup runneth over" books.
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Jessica
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mariB
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Wow, Michelle! I just really love LCC. I would really recommend LCC to those who are attracted to classical homeschooling.
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JuliaT
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Can I clarify something? I didn't mean to imply that latin and math were the only subjects that are done when following LCC. They (as well as music theory) are the main focus. The other subjects (history--Ancient and Modern History, science, writing) are included but if you are having a day in which life is in your way, then it is okay to forgo the other subjects or let your children do them on their own time. I didn't mean that this was the norm. LCC is trying to give you a guilt-free view on your child's education.
Blessings,
Julia
mom to 3(8,6,4)
http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/Juiainsk
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MicheleQ
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I think I understand better now. I'm glad for the discussion - it helped me to get a clearer picture. Obviously I wasn't seeing the whole thing and you all helped to clarify that. Thanks!
I still think I will skip LCC - at least for now. I have enough to read already!
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Michele Quigley
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Leonie
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mariB wrote:
| Wow, Michelle! I just really love LCC. I would really recommend LCC to those who are attracted to classical homeschooling. |
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I loved LCC - and would recommend it for those with an unschooly bent, too!
Unschooling meets classical meets CM???
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Leonie in Sydney
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Why should I read these books?
