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Cay Gibson
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| Posted: July 23 2005 at 11:45am | IP Logged
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I was just wondering after reading some of the posts under the routine thread...
Does unschooling and schedules/routines go together?
When I've visit the unschooling eloops, they are very anti-schedules/anti-routines. Can the two co-exist? How so?
I've been *blasted* on radical unschooling eloops for asking questions like this. So...please be gentle. 
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Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
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mrsgranola
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| Posted: July 23 2005 at 12:10pm | IP Logged
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Hmmm, that's a good question, Cay. I'm eager to hear what others think about this. I struggle between extremes of wanting complete and total order and wanting to be a very unschooler, too. There's a constant moral quandry as to what's best in my mind going on..
JoAnna
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: July 23 2005 at 12:18pm | IP Logged
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Well, I am not an expert, but I spent yesterday with Suzie Andres and we talked about her summer routine versus her schoolyear routine. So, apparently some unschoolers have routines.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Willa
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| Posted: July 23 2005 at 1:02pm | IP Logged
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Cay, I wonder how a person can NOT have a routine?
I mean, just by "not-having-a-schedule" you are having a schedule, so to speak? It's just determined by something like your personal biorhythms or your kids' sleep habits or whatever. Or if someone was VERY anti-routine, their routine might be consciously doing everything different every day -- but it would still be a routine
Maybe to some unschoolers, "routine" means something like "scheduled feedings" does to nursing on demand mothers.... and has bad connotations of institutionalization and rigidity and compulsion. .....
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juliecinci
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| Posted: July 23 2005 at 4:34pm | IP Logged
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Cay, it reminds me of scheduled feedings versus nursing on demand, like Willa said. In La Leche League we got this question all the time. The truth is that most babies settle into a routine, but it is one determined by their bio-rhythms and sleep and hunger cycles, not by a book. The routine fluctuates and changes with age, but it isn't hard to detect if you are paying attention.
Similarly, unschooling is not a "by the book" proposition. So I would think that the "routine" you settle into will be one that is organic to the season, your responsibilities, and the children you have. If you are wanting to establish a schedule *for* your children rather than paying attention to what they need and want, that might be when you're departing from an unschooling lifestyle. But if you are working together to create a rhythm in your life that works for all of you and everyone is thriving, then I don't see why that would automatically mean you aren't unschooling.
For instance, with my business and grad school pressing on my time last year, I had to make a routine for when I read aloud, had teatimes and did family projects with the kids. I chatted with the kids about what would work best for me and asked them what they preferred within those times.
We came up with me being fully available in the mornings and then we would flow in the afternoons (sometimes I would be with them still, sometimes I'd be studying or working). I needed to set a routine (schedule) though to make sure that reading aloud and playing games and making art projects and lap books etc. still happened. It wouldn't if I just waited for the "unction to function." 
Does that make sense?
Julie
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Leonie
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I find routines to be natural - as I said in the routines thread, I often mentally journal what we do and I *see we naturally have routines. I just builkd on those, when I think the need arises.
Unschooling for us means an enriching environemnt and an atentive mum - therefore, building on natural routines is part of our unschool ( although I don't like the label !  )
Unschooling is not no structure - for us, its life and our life has structure. Appointments, outings, activities, you name it.
And unschooling doesn't mean I leave the boys on their own - but I strew ( as Sandra Dodd says). I strew books and activities, I strew new things by pegging them to another activity, I strew movies and read alouds.
Unschooling and time is a balancing act for us - my boys know they have uninterrupted time with me in the morning, on the days we are home. Of course, I am avaible any time but other things often come up in the afternonons - last year it was my part time work! Some of what we do looks like school, some doesn't. Funnily enough, my kids still call it "school" - it helps when talking to other homeschoolers. 
Some of the thigns we do are by my suggestion and some by theirs or related to their goals ( we have goal meetings each "term" - Australian schools are set in terms and we are all aware of school schedules becaue of friends who go to school). These are the things that go on our post it notes.
Leonie in Sydney
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Cindy
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| Posted: July 31 2005 at 9:50pm | IP Logged
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I must ditto Leonie....
I have found myself that the perecption of unschoolers as doing nothing and having no routines or other contact with their children to be really annoying! Not that I see that here, but it is a shame that that seems to be the general definition of unschoolers... (one reason I have searched for an alternate handle..)
I don't mean to start an 'unschool definition' discussion again!
I had it said to me last month in a wonderful way... complete hands off in raising your children is not unschooling.. it is neglect! Love it. Unschooling, to me is really knowing your kids and giving them what they need- curiculum or a blank sheet of paper.
Cay, I think that routines are essential in the interest-led home. I have found over the years as we relaxed that my role has changed from curriculum finder/coordinator/implementor to idea-strewer and facilitator. My research time has not lessened, but it is spent in different areas.
I have to know my kids.. listen to them, see their interests, and this takes time. So, it is a must that my home is fairly organized and we know when we will be doing what, to allow me to have the TIME neccessary to be with my kids and be present.
If I had no routines or schedule that time would never happen. In A Mother's Rule Of Life, I really latched on to the author's idea that one should do what they are doing... know that at this time I am supposed to do a grocery list, so I don't lament that maybe I *should* be doing something else. And when I'm with my kids, I *know* that is where I should be, too. To really know that means that I have planned my other responsibilits for other times, so all is well and my mind is at peace.
We do much like Leonie is looking at our week and seeing where we are responsible to spend our time-chores, errands, housecleaning, etc. We also put in our desires, trips, social, etc. -- Mass on Tuesday, voluteering on Friday, for example. With what is left the boys have time for thier projects. I have things I strew casually and also more formally.. and I plan that, such as scripture reading and discussion in the am after breakfast, and a read aloud and math time mid-afternoon after they have had a few good hours on their projects.
I also will make time to put my things aside and spend time with them. So much of the day is free-flow, with me attending them and them being involved in some of what I do, but underlying it all is a sense of structure, which I think also gives us purpose and peace.
Hope this helps.....great question.
Oh, p.s. Cay, I have stopped reading the unschooling lists out there due to the perceptions you are getting... guess I still need to look for a new handle..
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Unschooling & Routines
