| Author | |
Cay Gibson
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 16 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5193
|
| Posted: May 02 2007 at 11:37pm | IP Logged
|
 |
|
I keep passing by my copy of LB's "Designing Your Own Classical Curriculum" and pondering the realization that, though we are using it (with CHC) in a sporadic manner and I love both resources, these curriculums have prevented us from truly "designing our own curriculum".
The plans I've taken from them seem to be the part of the day that my children like the least. But isn't learning work? And we don't usually "like" work, do we? though we should learn to embrace it.
I'm not even sure which of Willa's post to link because Willa has so many awesome reads (she always does), but I'll link this one because it links to a book I was curious about after seeing it in her sidebar: What is Learning Anyway?
The book is The Book of Learning and Forgetting.
After reading all this, I'm back to my unschooling state of mind.
This is all so interesting and, while labeled classical, it sounds very unschoolish to me.
And I can't help but wonder if all the designing and planning and pondering I've been doing for the past 10 years has been for me rather than my children.  and where on earth does all this leave my children.
When and where amd HOW do I stop "Designing my Own Curriculum" and let them design their own?
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
mariB
Forum All-Star
Joined: Dec 20 2006
Location: Vermont
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3815
|
| Posted: May 03 2007 at 5:16am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Cay,
This is a wonderful topic. I would love to unschool but I don't have the nerve to do it. The best part of our day does not include all those workbooks but when we pray and do a read aloud together.
This summer I thought I'd keep a notebook and write down everything the
kids do each day. Then I will probably see all the things they do on their own. I think I'll take out the Colfax book again that I haven't read in years called Homeschooling for Excellence.
I too have been following Designing Your Own Curriculum for years with lots and lots of tweaking. I feel all this planning is for me too. You brought up the subject of school being work. It's funny. I just told the kids yesterday that it's called schoolWORK for a reason. My 15 year old laughed when I said, "It's not called schoolPLAY or schoolFUN." THen I said,"Just get it done guys so we can move on to the fun stuff. You know I dislike this as much as you do."
I guess I'm no help with that kind of attitude. But everyone is always excited and anxious for "gathering time".
A big part of me feels that children need some sort of direction or else they wouldn't need parents just as I, an adult, need direction from God or else I would be a wandering nomad.(Of course children need direction from God too!)
I know unschoolers have some sort of plan--they must, like leaving interesting books all around the house, TV off during the week, some sort of math requirements, etc.
I notice that my 15 year old likes to focus on ONE task at a time and does it very well, by the way. But when he has to complete 7 subjects in one day, he feels disoriented. I also like to focus on one task until it is completed.
I am such an admirer of unschoolers such as Leonie. I guess I'm not very brave. I wimp out at having to come up with those dreadful end of the year portfolios for our state. Would I have anything to fill them up with at the end of the school year? Deep down I feel I might have more than enough to put in portfolios after a year of unschooling.
I can't wait to hear more about this.
__________________
marib-Mother to 22ds,21ds,18ds,15dd,11dd and wife to an amazing man for 23 years
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cheryl
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 20 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 978
|
| Posted: May 03 2007 at 6:10am | IP Logged
|
|
|
mariB wrote:
This summer I thought I'd keep a notebook and write down everything the
kids do each day. Then I will probably see all the things they do on their own. |
|
|
I love this idea.
__________________
Cheryl
Wife to Bob ('97)
Mom to Matthew 13, Joseph 11, Sarah 10, Rachel 6, Hannah almost 4 and Mary 1
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JenniferS
Forum All-Star
Joined: Nov 09 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1049
|
| Posted: May 03 2007 at 7:27am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Thanks for the links. Your post could have been mie. I've tried to compromise. Our morings are scheduled to please dh, and our afternoons have more of an unschoolish feel. Our mornings feel like drudgery. UGH!!! I like the idea of keeping a notebook throughout the summer.
Jen
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cay Gibson
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 16 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5193
|
| Posted: May 03 2007 at 9:00am | IP Logged
|
|
|
JenniferS wrote:
| Our morings are scheduled to please dh, and our afternoons have more of an unschoolish feel. |
|
|
That's how it's always been here as well. Since we're at the tail end of most our work, I've been letting loose of this structure.
mariB wrote:
This summer I thought I'd keep a notebook and write down everything the
kids do each day. Then I will probably see all the things they do on their own. |
|
|
That's what I did last week. and I was pleased with what they did.
But then I begin to worry about them learning accountibility and discipline for the future. That's what I've always believed our seatwork was for.
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Rachel May
Forum All-Star
Joined: June 24 2005
Location: Kansas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2057
|
| Posted: May 03 2007 at 10:15am | IP Logged
|
|
|
I've been thinking about this a lot lately too. Here are my quick thoughts, fwiw:
The curriculum I'm designing has to be balanced between what I need and what they need. It also needs to take individual children into account. I cling to my security blanket (MODG syllabus specifically) because it helps with my homeschooler's anxiety, but I definitely tweak a lot. However, I'm resisting tweaking unnecessarily.
For example, we've used Sound Beginnings for phonics for the past 2 years. It bores me to tears, but my kids LOVE it. This is a case where I will have to WORK to do use what my kids love instead of using our limited resources on another phonics program which would essentially be for me.
I'm considering giving up my syllabus because I realize there is so much tweaking that I barely follow it. I need the essence (what subjects to teach, how often to narrate, how quickly to progress, etc) without the substance (day to day instruction). Again that means more work for me. But I feel like if I do the work now, then during the school year, school will feel less like work for all of us.
This is getting too long and I want to read the links before I contribute more, but I wanted to put my footprint here before the thread grows too fast and I feel like I can't participate.
__________________
Rachel
Thomas and Anthony (10), Maria (8), Charles (6), Cecilia (5), James (3), and Joseph (1)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
lapazfarm
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 21 2005
Location: Alaska
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6082
|
| Posted: May 03 2007 at 10:32am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Cay, these are the very same thoughts that keep swirling around my head.
It seems to me from your questions that you recognize the value of interest-driven education. What I sense, though, is a hesitation to trust that you can provide a thorough education that way. I often have the same doubts. But I don’t think that total unschooling is the only alternative to what you describe. I tried that route and it didn’t work for us for many reasons, though it may work well for others. But I think we have finally found a balance here between ds’s interests and my need to guide his education.
I wonder what it is, exactly that your children are balking at? Is it the subject itself (grammar, Latin, Greek myths?), or is it the method of delivery (workbooks or copywork, or whatever)? Can the same concepts be learned through more interest-driven means?
If I were to do a cost benefit analysis, I would have to admit that I get much more benefit (learning) for my cost (effort) when ds takes the lead. I almost find he schools himself and I can sit and watch from the sidelines. That would make me an unschooler if that is all I did. But, I also find that, like in a sports game, he needs a coach to call the plays (“I think this project will work well”) and he definitely needs a referee (“penalty for sloppy work, go back and try again!”). That’s where total unschoolers and I part company! My job is to see to it that he wins this game, not just cheer him on!
But more to your question. Designing your own classical curriculum is great because of the built-in flexibility. But the flexibility is limited because it assumes that a classical curriculum is right for your child. Sorry, but there is no method that is right for every child. I don’t think there is any way I could bend, stretch, twist or turn a classical curriculum so that it would inspire my son. I have to break out of that box for him. Perhaps your children are also finding that it doesn’t suit them?
Sorry, I know this is kid of long and rambling, but as you can tell, my thoughts on this are evolving, too. I keep thinking that through the years we are spiralling closer and closer to our true center, and eventually we will be very close to being there!LOL!
__________________
Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Willa
Forum All-Star
Joined: Jan 28 2005
Location: California
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3881
|
| Posted: May 03 2007 at 10:34am | IP Logged
|
|
|
The interesting thing is that the word "school" originally meant "leisure, discussion, spare time" -- see here 
When Smith uses the word "classic" model of learning he defines it as "archetypical, universal, deeply rooted, and uncontaminated". So he is not talking about classical education as we know it today, but rather, about the traditional "folk wisdom" view of learning.
Up till recently, everyone knew (he says) that if you wanted your son to be a blacksmith, you signed him up as apprentice to a blacksmith. If you wanted your child to grow up respectful and disciplined, you didn't let him run around with undisciplined peers.... and so on.
My experience has been that children do usually end up designing their own curriculum by the teenage years. Even in my school days, I realize that though I went to school I simply ignored what I didn't want to learn and spent my extra time on things I did want to learn. My kids usually do some things they don't really enjoy, because they trust us to have good motives and reasons for our guidance, but they seem to "specialize" in certain areas of their own. What the Dorothy Sayers "trivium" model would call the "Rhetoric" stage of self-expression and development.
Typing in a hurry so I hope this makes sense.
__________________
AMDG
Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cay Gibson
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 16 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5193
|
| Posted: May 03 2007 at 11:15am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Rachel May wrote:
| I wanted to put my footprint here before the thread grows too fast and I feel like I can't participate. |
|
|
HoHoHo 
You sound just like me, Rachel May.
lapazfarm wrote:
What I sense, though, is a hesitation to trust that you can provide a thorough education that way.
|
|
|
How perspective you are, Theresa. I am agonizing over this. My learning notes that I keep on my blog are my way of saying "Look! You're doing enough! You're doing good work. They're learning!"
But I'm having to do this for myself because I don't hear anyone around me telling me this. Then I correct myself that I shouldn't need someone to tell me this. "Offer it up." (But it is a nice thing to hear  .) I mean, if our children need to hear approval from us, then don't we need to hear approval too?
It's times like these when I need a label, yet I know there is no label for this family of many different skills, personalities, capabilities, intelligence, etc.
Perhaps some of you could look over my learning notes and give me a label.
lapazfarm wrote:
| I wonder what it is, exactly that your children are balking at? Is it the subject itself (grammar, Latin, Greek myths?), or is it the method of delivery (workbooks or copywork, or whatever)? Can the same concepts be learned through more interest-driven means? |
|
|
My 14 yr old ds doesn't balk at all. He loves hsing and does his work without any prompting or fuss. But I don't think he's up to his grade level. He's always been behind and I worry about his motivation in the real world. He's quite content at home. Too content? 
Then there's my 9 yr old who doesn't seem challenged enough here at home.
I just can't seem to find a good balance. I'm thinking of ditching everything and picking up our FIAR books and study guides and have her and Annie use those completely. We've neglected FIAR and lapbooks far too long.
lapazfarm wrote:
| If I were to do a cost benefit analysis, I would have to admit that I get much more benefit (learning) for my cost (effort) when ds takes the lead. I almost find he schools himself and I can sit and watch from the sidelines. |
|
|
This is pretty much what I do with my 14 yr old ds but I wonder if it's enough. I see what he does and what he knows, but other people think he's just at home doing nothing. He doesn't like manual work and he isn't super smart or highly motivated enough to scale the corporate laddar.
Do I sound worried about him? SOmetimes, like today, the cloud of doubt hovers over me.
My 9 yr old dd on the other hand is the opposite, constantly reading, writing, learning...and she wants to try "real" school. Yet she's the one who balks and fusses when it's time to get the workbooks out. <sigh>
I don't doubt that that she's learning all the time, I'm just trying to find a way to make home-learning completely appealing to her. Goodness knows I try. 
Thanks for letting me get this off my chest. I didn't realize how lengthy this was getting. Your post was really helpful, Theresa, and everyone has written something I could relate to and mull over.
Now I'm off to read Willa... 
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cay Gibson
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 16 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5193
|
| Posted: May 03 2007 at 11:22am | IP Logged
|
|
|
WJFR wrote:
| The interesting thing is that the word "school" originally meant "leisure, discussion, spare time" -- see here |
|
|
How wonderful! This reminds me of what Jenn wrote about college being a time of leisure that society gives you to learn. (I'm paraphrasing here).
But did any of us really view it that way?  I know I didn't. I feel richly privileged to be able to stay home and school my children. I feel this is my leisure time because no one has high expectations of me. Does that sound sordid?
WJFR wrote:
When Smith uses the word "classic" model of learning he defines it as "archetypical, universal, deeply rooted, and uncontaminated". So he is not talking about classical education as we know it today, but rather, about the traditional "folk wisdom" view of learning.
|
|
|
How on earth did schools get so sidetracked and derailed?
I read the part of Smith's book available on line. I kept nodding my head in agreement. I'm going to check with my library, but is this book worth the $$, Willa?
I'm asking this but I still have "Myth of Laziness" unopened at my bedside because I'm in the middle of three other books.
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
JenniferS
Forum All-Star
Joined: Nov 09 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1049
|
| Posted: May 03 2007 at 11:43am | IP Logged
|
|
|
Oh, Cay...you have voiced what I have been thinking myself. I keep typing and deleting my post because I can't seem get what I want to say into words(having a lot of trouble with that lately). I do so worry about the structure and discipline part of it all. I think it is the formal classroom teacher in me, even though I ran a fairly loose classroom that centered around learning centers.
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MicheleQ
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 23 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2193
|
| Posted: May 03 2007 at 1:59pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Cay Gibson wrote:
| How on earth did schools get so sidetracked and derailed? |
|
|
If I may.
Smith writes, "The justification for change was --as it still is--efficiency, as defined by some external authority. People of influence thought pupils weren't learning very much during their time in school; pupils seemed to do what they liked while they were there, and their teachers didn't appear to have much control over them. There was a total lack of organization--and organization was what enabled western civilization to take off in the nineteenth century. This was an age when management, drawing on science and technology, seemed capable of solving any problem. There was a search for a model of what school (and teachers and students) should be like. And one was found. The model was nothing less than the mightiest fighting machine in Europe, the Prussian army.
In short, this was the "militaristic model that invaded the one-room schoolhouse." The same model was used in factories and also in agriculture.
And its "language" still exists today. "We talk of deployment of resources, the recruitment of teachers and students, advancing or withdrawing students, promotion to higher grades, drills for learners, strategies for teachers, batteries of tests, word attack skills. . ." "The fact that this language seems natural to us, ...perfectly illustrates the insidious infiltration of militaristic thinking in education."
Interesting isn't it?
Thanks for bringing it up Cay. I haven't looked at this book in a while and now it's off my shelf and on my desk again.
__________________
Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Cay Gibson
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 16 2005
Location: Louisiana
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5193
|
| Posted: May 03 2007 at 2:06pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
So it's worthy my money.
Thanks for sharing these excerpts, Michele.
Now, to throw a wrench in the whole concept , while it makes me grinch, I'm thinking of all the young people who have seriously gone astray in life only to join the military freshly out of school and the military has straightened them out.
Not in all cases, mind you. But children do seem to need a certain degree of routine and schedules and discipline.
This might be two separate things entirely but I'm just mulling...
__________________
Cay Gibson
"There are 49 states, then there is Louisiana." ~ Chef Emeril
wife to Mark '86
mom to 5
Cajun Cottage Under the Oaks
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Rachel May
Forum All-Star
Joined: June 24 2005
Location: Kansas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2057
|
| Posted: May 03 2007 at 2:18pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Fascinating, Michele!
One thing I'm finding is that what people think education is for is wildly different. A woman whom I met last year did some work on No Child Left Behind (I can't remember her capacity). She said education is to make useful workers. I was horrified. I think it is to elevate the human person, to not waste our "talents" in the gospel sense, and to move us closer to Heaven. I believe that will produce good workers as a byproduct. But what I think the goal of educational is effects how I'll get there, right? This is probably old news to you veterans, but it's new and eye-opening to me.
OK, off to get ready to go out to dinner with Bill.  Lots to discuss.
Cay, I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way!
Theresa, I was so hoping you would be here. I was thinking of so many things you've said as all this was swirling around today!
I so love these thinking threads.....
__________________
Rachel
Thomas and Anthony (10), Maria (8), Charles (6), Cecilia (5), James (3), and Joseph (1)
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MicheleQ
Forum All-Star
Joined: Feb 23 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2193
|
| Posted: May 03 2007 at 2:28pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Cay Gibson wrote:
So it's worthy my money.
Thanks for sharing these excerpts, Michele.
Now, to throw a wrench in the whole concept , while it makes me grinch, I'm thinking of all the young people who have seriously gone astray in life only to join the military freshly out of school and the military has straightened them out.
Not in all cases, mind you. But children do seem to need a certain degree of routine and schedules and discipline.
This might be two separate things entirely but I'm just mulling... |
|
|
I don't think it's separate. Children do need a routine but there's a difference between routine and regiment. The military setup of the school system made learning comparmentalized rather than flowing and organic.
This issue of some children getting "straightened out" in the military has more to do with discipline or more precisely self-discipline. But children don't need a regimented system of schooling to learn self discipline. They need an opportunity to grow and learn in an environment of love and acceptance and in relationship to their teacher(s).
FWIW the military model of schooling didn't produce the dramatic effects that were expected and those looking to place blame looked to the teachers rather than the method (which is where the problem lies) and teaching went from being an art to being a science. The significance there is that if something is an art it is limited to those who have a bent for it - an artistic ability if you will. But if it's a science, it's a technique, something anyone can learn.
In reality we can see the result of this kind of thinking since most likely we have all had teachers who were just naturally good at what they did. Teaching was their art. They did it well and we remember them AND what they helped us learn (There's the relationship aspect as well but that's part of the art of it). We have also probably all had teachers who had the science of it down but never really touched us. We have for the most part forgotten them AND what they tried to teach us.
__________________
Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
nicole-amdg
Forum Pro
Joined: April 16 2007
Location: Georgia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 387
|
| Posted: May 03 2007 at 2:35pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Oh, my.
First I used Hahn and Hasson's Catholic Education: Homeward Bound to pull together resources I wanted to use. Then I enrolled the kids in Kolbe Academy and read Designing Your Own Classical Education and tried to incorporate it. As soon as my second child started (in 1st grade), we quickly fell behind, but I always thought of that as my own lack of discipline (self-discipline and teaching discipline to the kids). So I just started doing my own thing, picking up more things, e.g. CHC and even KONOS, trying to inject everything I thought was good until it blew up on me. I know it's an old story.
So. I got oversaturated. Now these days I am just making sure we more or less nominally hit the state-mandated subjects, something liturgically relevant, and essential things like sacraments prep. I know I'm missing things--resources, feast days, "subjects" like memorization and art (at least a systematic approach to them). We did almost nothing for St. Patrick's Day. I don't even know what FIAR is yet. But right now I'm trying to concentrate on making the hammock strong (to borrow Elizabeth's metaphor) by assuring good supports. Then I can choose the ropes to construct it.
This is a great thread. I look forward to reading more.
Nicole
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
lapazfarm
Forum All-Star
Joined: July 21 2005
Location: Alaska
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6082
|
| Posted: May 03 2007 at 4:06pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Michelle, I find those quotes fascinating! Really, I had no idea how pervasive that military model was!What an "aha!" moment you just gave me!
Here is the thing: no matter if you think of traditional modern schooling as a military" or factory mentality, the fact remains that the model is a failure. What it produces (intended or not) are a bunch of mediocre "products" that can fit neatly and uniformly into boxes. Creativity and true genius are squelched in the name of conformity and efficiency.
This is not what I want for my children.
I do agree that children need discpline. Just ask my kids and they will tell you all about it!LOL! But I think there can be both a seperation and a connection between school, where we nourish ideas, and home life, where we feed the soul. We hope that what they learn in both arenas will spill into the other. But do we need the same methods for both? In order to teach children discipline for "life," that they should wake at a timely hour, keep their rooms neat, etc, do we need to enforce discipline in the educational arena as well? Or can we leave the disciplining for life skills and keep education more purely interest-based and fun? Do we make little Suzy write those words three times each whether she likes it or not because it teaches her discipline? Is that really our educational goal? Or is it a life goal? Can't we seperate the two?
No answers, just wondering.
__________________
Theresa
us-schooling in beautiful Fairbanks, Alaska.
LaPaz Home Learning
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
MamaJen
Forum Rookie
Joined: March 04 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 20
|
| Posted: May 03 2007 at 4:14pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Cay wrote: "Now, to throw a wrench in the whole concept , while it makes me grinch, I'm thinking of all the young people who have seriously gone astray in life only to join the military freshly out of school and the military has straightened them out.
Not in all cases, mind you. But children do seem to need a certain degree of routine and schedules and discipline.
This might be two separate things entirely but I'm just mulling..."
(sorry - I have no idea how to "quote" :-)
This is something I've been really mulling over recently. I have tons of thoughts, which I hope to pull together into a blog post soon. But, I too, feel your conflict between "real" or maybe "interest-led" learning, and routines and discipline. Because I believe in the former, and see the need for the latter, and am "mulling" how to pull it all together.
One thing I've thought of - I think that perhaps the military "straightens some kids out", not because of the regiment and routine in and of themselves, but because it is very *meaningful work*. What I mean is - I think, like someone else sort of indirectly mentioned, our current public education system compartmentalizes learning in a massive way. Kids zone out, get bored, don't see the point - and why would they? Sometimes that even happens in our homeschools, because we are so focused on "getting in the basics" or following rabit trails of interest - there is still no meaningful work involved. Am I making any sense?
The military is one example of very meaningful work - the regiment and routine are in place to train soldiers for the important work of defending our country. And I think of the stories my dh's grandfather tells, of carrying eggs and a message to the neighboring farm 4 miles away - when he was 6 years old! Now, certainly, we can't do that anymore - but that 6 year old child knew that he was needed, and important. I don't think my own kids have that sense of meaning and importance, not really. I'm contemplating ways to develop that, but it's tough!
Anyway, this is sort of off on a tangent - but I'm really wondering if it's not interest or routine so much as *meaning*. And how do we pull that into our school planning?
MamaJen
Aquinas Academy Adventures
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Erin
Forum Moderator
Joined: Feb 23 2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5814
|
| Posted: May 03 2007 at 4:23pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
Cay Gibson wrote:
That's what I did last week. and I was pleased with what they did.
But then I begin to worry about them learning accountibility and discipline for the future. That's what I've always believed our seatwork was for. |
|
|
Can I wonder aloud that a good reason that you can relax now is because you have already done the necessary discipline of reading and writing in the earlier years. I have discovered through trial and error that you (well me really) can't skip these years or they do hinder progress.
[/QUOTE=Nicole-AMDG]
But right now I'm trying to concentrate on making the hammock strong (to borrow Elizabeth's metaphor) by assuring good supports. Then I can choose the ropes to construct it.
[/QUOTE]
I agree wholeheartedly with this.
I can easily see once they have mastered the basics thoroughly they could go on in an easy relaxed manner of learning but until then they must be disciplined in the language arts and also in my opinion maths. Just my 0.02cents
__________________
Erin
Faith Filled Days
Seven Little Australians
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
Tina P.
Forum All-Star
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: N/A
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1638
|
| Posted: May 03 2007 at 4:57pm | IP Logged
|
|
|
MicheleQ wrote:
Children do need a routine but there's a difference between routine and regiment. The military setup of the school system made learning comparmentalized rather than flowing and organic.
This issue of some children getting "straightened out" in the military has more to do with discipline or more precisely self-discipline. But children don't need a regimented system of schooling to learn self discipline. They need an opportunity to grow and learn in an environment of love and acceptance and in relationship to their teacher(s).
FWIW the military model of schooling didn't produce the dramatic effects that were expected and those looking to place blame looked to the teachers rather than the method (which is where the problem lies) and teaching went from being an art to being a science. The significance there is that if something is an art it is limited to those who have a bent for it - an artistic ability if you will. But if it's a science, it's a technique, something anyone can learn. |
|
|
May I address this from a personal standpoint? My husband joined the military to escape his homelife. His mother and father divorced when he was 11. His mother moved the family to Florida. And then she worked like crazy to support her family, since in those days, if the father did not follow up with ... oh, what is it? ... alimony checks (?), it wasn't followed up with any legal action. He basically grew up without a father or mother, with *no* structure besides school in his days, and with very little time for love.
No, the military didn't provide the love he might have been looking for having escaped from his home, but it did accept him. He accomplished a great deal in his military career. And he is the most responsible and law-abiding person I'd ever known. I realize that the military doesn't do this for everyone, but it worked for him.
MicheleQ wrote:
| In reality we can see the result of this kind of thinking since most likely we have all had teachers who were just naturally good at what they did. Teaching was their art. They did it well and we remember them AND what they helped us learn (There's the relationship aspect as well but that's part of the art of it). We have also probably all had teachers who had the science of it down but never really touched us. We have for the most part forgotten them AND what they tried to teach us. |
|
|
How can there be teachers who touch some, but whom others think are rotten teachers? Is it just the bent for the subject on the part of the student in that case? I can think of two writing teachers and a science teacher that I liked that others said were boring, awful, too strict ... And then there was that science teacher who jumped up on his desk to illustrate ... hmmm, what *was* he trying to illustrate? ... anyway, you can see that his energetic tactics didn't faze me.
Also, I have long held that science and art are interrelated. There is a certain science to well-done art. And there is art interlaced all through science.
Opposite of Rachel May, we rely on CHC's lesson plans ... sometimes and use just the Laura Berquist book, Designing Your Own Classical Curriculum, to balance what we do. While I love the idea of getting your hands dirty in the learning process, CHC is too craft-oriented for me at this time. And their science  leaves a lot to be desired. I think that is why I started to look at LB's book again.
Cay, don't you think that by blending what's already out there and tweaking as someone mentioned, you *are* designing your own? Do you really want to reinvent the wheel?
Cay Gibson wrote:
| But then I begin to worry about them learning accountibility and discipline for the future. That's what I've always believed our seatwork was for. |
|
|
JenniferS wrote:
| Our morings are scheduled to please dh, and our afternoons have more of an unschoolish feel. |
|
|
More than I do, my husband does. Our relationship is summed up like this: "I don't suffer from stress. I'm a carrier." My poor husband! He wants to see structure, regiment, pages of work done. We, as Jennifer has, have three subjects that we diligently tackle in the morning workbook-style. Those three are math, spelling (not workbook style exactly, but there is proven work to show him), and grammar. How much workbook-ish work do you do? Do you feel your kids *must* learn Latin? Or can they choose their foreign language? I'm a huge proponent of Latin or any romance language because it so helps the student understand the grammar and roots of our current language. But if we're considering children participating more in choosing their own education ...
Theresa, I really like the coaching image you presented. I want to be a fly on your wall and watch you work together.
Cay, your 14 yos sounds like my almost-13 yos who says he wants to go to the Air Force Academy. I think he'll not go very soon. He's unfocused on most of his subjects and is working below grade-level. He'd still rather play (not saying that your ds is like mine in this aspect). I think part of it is maturity. And I wonder whether it's such a bad idea to hold onto our kids until they *reach* the maturity level at which they can succeed at college. Is it so bad if my son graduates from college when he's 25?
__________________
Tina, wife to one and mom to 9 + 3 in heaven
Mary's Muse
|
| Back to Top |
|
| |
|
|
Forum Locked) 
4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Designing Curriculum
