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Leonie
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I read the quote below at Ambleside Online.
<<...in fact, Charlotte Mason herself warned that simply taking her booklist and applying it to a school would not be enough - her method is more than a booklist. It is the principles and philosophy behind the approach as well as books with a high literary standard that are the distinctions of a true CM education.
Does that mean you should not use any booklist, or curriculum? While Charlotte Mason warned against simply applying the booklist she used, she never intended teachers or parents to attempt to school without a plan, and always provided them with a booklist and schedule, and it was expected that her books (what we know today as the 6-volume Original Homeschool Series) would be studied. >>>
AO seems to imply that one must follow CM's ideas in full, alongside study of her philosophy, in order to gain the excellent education that was a hallmark of the PNEU/PUS programmes.
So, my question is - do you think one needs to fully implement all of CM's ideas, - or is a pick and choose method, an individualized education, using some of CM's ideas and adapting others, still an excellent education?
Pondering right now  ,
Leonie in Sydney
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tovlo4801
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Leonie,
This is a GREAT question! I have to admit that every previous time I've begun to look more deeply into CM I've gotten stopped by this question on the Ambleside site.
Amblesideoneline.org wrote:
Question: "I use Living Books, we go on nature walks and I have my children narrate--aren't I pretty much already doing a Charlotte Mason education?"
The Charlotte Mason method is more than these elements. It's more than a curriculum. In fact, knowing what Charlotte said, agreeing that it makes sense, and doing it 'more or less' is not a really Charlotte Mason education and won't get the kind of results seen in her students. A Charlotte Mason education is one that fully attempts to follow her 20 Principles as detailed in her books.
Charlotte Mason wrote in Volume 6 page 19: "The reader will say with truth,--'I knew all this before and have always acted more or less on these principles'; and I can only point to the unusual results we obtain through adhering, not 'more or less,' but strictly to the principles and practices I have indicated. I suppose the difficulties are of the sort that Lister had to contend with; every surgeon knew that his instruments and appurtenances should be kept clean, but the saving of millions of lives has resulted from the adoption of the great surgeon's antiseptic treatment; that is, from the substitution of exact principles scrupulously applied, for the rather casual 'more or less' methods of earlier days." |
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As I've mentioned in different places before, I really believe all children and families are different and because of this every homeschool will look different. (I've become even more convinced of this over the past month of reading and research.) The idea above, that CM only works if you do it "exactly", just repelled me from reading any further. The quote didn't seem to allow for incidentals being adjusted for the individuality of families. To me at first reading, it seemed to suggest that you had to take the whole package and follow it down to the letter. I was not interested. The vision of CM that I had picked up here and other places did not seem to be so constricting.
From following the CCM conversations, reading Real Learning and discussing things here, I think I did come away with a different vision of CM than what I'm picking up from reading her original writings. It's not that anyone did me a disservice by feeding me poor information. It's just that everyone that I've absorbed CM information from has done the sort of thing CM talks about. They've read ideas, chewed on them, and made them their own. When they recited what they'd understood, they each had replayed a very original idea because it had been processed through their unique personalities. Certain things that attracted me to CM through the ladies who practice it, might not technically be CM, but CM altered slightly by the minds that chewed on her ideas. I think that is good and from what little I've read so far of CM, I think she would expect that. She seemed to understand that what would be narrated back would be original because it was being processed by a unique person.
Now that said, I'm beginning to understand a little bit what might actually be meant by not following CM 'more or less'. CM is not at it's core just about reading good books, narrating, and enjoying nature. Before reading her writing, I truly had sort of thought that was the core. Now I'm seeing that these things are almost externals to the core. I think the core is her philosophy of educating children; how we should view them and how their minds are properly fed. I think maybe what they're saying is that the results will not be so good if you follow the methods, but don't really understand her philosophy underlying those methods. So in that sense, I can agree with the fact that CM has to be done on a whole to be successful. If you just read good books, expect an accurate re-telling afterwards and then send your kids outside to draw pictures of nature later, you've missed the core of CM, I'm thinking.
I've tried narration over the past two years of homeschooling and it's always been an unpleasant, tortorous time. My son stutters and I didn't really know what level of re-telling to expect. I made it into a very serious, almost testing of his reading comprehension. I would get frustrated if he didn't seem to remember all the important points that I would have picked out. Now that I've read some CM, I'm thinking that narration is really a joyful exploration of how my child sees the world by seeing how he processes the information he's been fed. There should be no "right" re-telling of the information. The joy of communicating to others how he sees the world is the motivation for the child to get better and better at narrating how he's processed what he's read. (OK. That's probably not actually what she wrote. It's how my mind processed what she wrote.  ) That's just one example, but it's clear to me that CM could be a miserable process of jumping through hoops without that base understanding of her philosophy. I think it's the philosophy that makes CM so wonderful! In fact, I'm finding that much of what I thought was attracting me to unschooling is truly to be found in that underlying respect for children's intellect in CM. I much prefer this to unbridled unschooling, now that I've given it a true look.
But it would still have to be mine. So if the truth of the assertion is that no individualization is allowed, then I just won't be a "true" CM practicer. I just find it hard to believe that this is truly what CM would have advocated. It doesn't make any sense to me. Deep down I think the problem was with people following the externals and missing the essential underlying philosophy.
I'm pondering the same sort of things you are. It's helping me work through them to put them down in writing. My ponderings are decidedly uneducated since I've only read the first few chapters of book 6 of her writings.  Do you have any counter ponderings to add to the mix?
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Willa
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tovlo4801 wrote:
| From following the CCM conversations, reading Real Learning and discussing things here, I think I did come away with a different vision of CM than what I'm picking up from reading her original writings. It's not that anyone did me a disservice by feeding me poor information. It's just that everyone that I've absorbed CM information from has done the sort of thing CM talks about. They've read ideas, chewed on them, and made them their own. When they recited what they'd understood, they each had replayed a very original idea because it had been processed through their unique personalities. |
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Richelle, I just had to clip out this quote of yours because it seemed so charitable and insightful. Yes, I think you are right. Even the Ambleside curriculum, which tries to stick closely to the original PNEU method, has definite variations and would have to have, because we don't live in the same day and age -- even the books used by PNEU, if 20 or 50 years old back then, are a century or so more dated than that now. Of course, Ambleside acknowledges that and tries to take advantage of modern resources, but that's my point.
Similarly, Karen Andreola or any of the other CM "experts" will focus on what's transformed their thinking and so it will be a synthesis, or a development -- it won't be simply a restatement of her thought. And you are right -- I believe CM wanted it that way and that was one of her ideas about what education should produce.
I am on a CM study group which tries to read and study and apply CM's original books and that quote you both mentioned really struck me too for the exact reasons you describe, Richelle. But I think you are right (and it's a great point) -- her vision was to go back to what the philosophers call "first principles" -- so she wasn't saying that you have to stick EXACTLY to her method, but almost the opposite. I read in a couple of the Parent's Review articles (and these are really good reading too if you can take the time!) that CM said that when in doubt about how to "teach" in a particular case, go back to the basic principles and try to figure out how to apply the method from there.
Anyway, I guess I'm just "narrating" or retelling what you said so well already, but I wanted to put in a ditto and I can't seem to write short!
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Willa
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Elizabeth
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I absolutely do not profess to be a CM purist, any more than I profess to be a Montessori purist.In both cases, I CANNOT duplicate exactly what the philosopher intended in my home. Nor do I think I should. I think God gave me the children He did, in the circumstances He did, after the life I'd already lived,with the husband I have, because He wanted me to drop to my knees and ask Him what to do next (every day) and He knew I'd make every effort to listen and to act on HIS inspiration, His philosophy. Then, He gave me the grace and the wisdom necessary to do the right thing. He knew I'd be very imperfect and that is all part of His plan for my children. If I thought the He wanted me to do exactly what CM said to do in exactly the manner she said to do it, I would have a crisis of confidence. I can't. I know I can't. If nothing else, I don't have the time to read and research everything CM said (she's not an easy read  ); I don't have the resources or the inclination to leave my family and fly to England to walk where she walked and study those things which are only available there. In both the case of extensive time spent researching and travel, my family would suffer while I tried to make a nineteenth century British woman's shoes fit my feet. They won't. And that can't possibly be God's will for me or for them. I came to that recognition a long time ago. And then I came to the same recognition where Montessori and Cavaletti are concerned (and honestly, this was more difficult to accept). But I really do believe God knows all our human limitations and considerations and that we would not be called to this vocation (home education) if He wasn't going to pour out sufficient grace to make it possible to succeed. A pure CM education as CM intended would not be succesful here, of that I am certain.
So, I embrace what parts I know to work here and I remain open to other ideas. It's funny sometimes to think of all the information in home education that has become available since I began. When I allow myself to listen and to learn from the women and men who are contributing to that body of knowledge now, I find more nuggets of treasure. Pure CM as CM wrote it would exclude that mentoring at the feet of some very wise, very learned women, some of whom know CM much better than I do, and some of whom know something else.
I am sure that for the families who can make it work a pure CM education like AO does indeed provide an excellent education. Hopefully, they have discerned that it's exactly God's intent for their families. And, God bless them, they are able to pull it off. But I don't think that's the only excellent education. And personally, getting back to the original question, I don't think it's the best education. It can't be; it's not Catholic.
From the very beginning, Real Learning is expressed as more than CM. St. Teresa Benedicta (Edith Stein) is as heavily quoted as CM in the introductory chapters. The chapter on reading isn't CM at all and it doesn't try to be. The religion chapter defies a neat category. Real Learning is my earnest attempt to take what I'd learned up until that point and put it between the covers of a book in the hope that it would be an encouragement to other women. I saw so many people beating themselves up because they couldn't do this method or that perfectly. I found great freedom from that sense of failure in allowing myself to take what worked from CM and Edith Stein and Montessori and my own observation of children and then--and this is what really matters to me where the book is concerned--I found community in CCM  . And I wanted so much to share that community. It was in the company of the contributors, as we all journeyed together to provide "the best education," that I started to recognize that what we were doing in each of our homes was good. It looked different in Leonie's Australian house full of boys than it did in Willa's SF apartment in the shadow of the hospital or MacBeth's home on the outskirts of NYC where music could be heard incessantly or my home in the Virginia suburbs where soccer balls were constantly being bounced off the walls. But it was all good. And when I recognized that "good" could be different, while also being grounded in the same principles, I wanted to tell the world. What freedom there is in that knowledge! And what support. So WE wrote the book--the community. And then the community grew. And then other people brought their talents and their strengths to the discussion. And now, here we are. Still pursuing excellence in education and still committed to each individiual family's understanding of God's best. And, as an aside, one person from that original community did feel called to pursue CM to its purest possible application and she (Michele Quigley) has made Mater Amabilis available to Catholic women who are called to a purer application of CM but who want it more Catholic than AO. So, now you might not have to invest all that time and research into it. You can click onMater Amabilis and have a neat, thoughtful program all laid out for you to bring before God.
It's all good; really it is
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Mary G
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It's funny, but we had this discussin more than once at the recent CM conference -- from both school folks and homeschoolers.
Which is more important -- CM's philosophy of placing the child first, allowing masterly inactivity, structured curriculum with 20 min lessons, etc; or following her very structured curriculum?
We all cmae away with a sense that CM would say "philosophy first" and the curriculum will follow. Curriculum is to back-up the philosophy -- things like only giving the student what he can do well, not pushing the student beyond her limits, allowing some choices but not total choice, etc.
Does this help? I know it is so hard to not have a "one size fits all" -- that's why all those who have "built" a CM-style curriculum (ie, Ambleside Online, Mater Amabilis, etc), "suggest" things and give choices for read-alouds, recitation, etc.
The best thing to do is to read CM's writings yourself and do what YOU think is best for YOUR situation.....
Blessings!
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MaryG
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my website that combines my schooling, hand-knits work, writing and everything else in one spot!
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Leonie
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<<in that sense, I can agree with the fact that CM has to be done on a whole to be successful.>>>
(I haven't figured out, yet, how to do that cut and paste thing!).
Richelle,
I guess I am questioning the fact that one has to follow all CM's principles, in order to be successful in educating one's children.
If, as Willa describes, I agree with some of CM's philosophy and with some of her methods and then apply these in my home, within a Catholic family - isn't that successful, too? In a sense, aren't we are all educating for eternity, whether we use some or all of CM's philosophy?
Will we get her *good results* or will we get equally good results?
I am pondering the fact that I have made my homeschool, with dh and the dc and God, a Catholic, loving to learn, CM flavoured family education. Would my older sons be *different* if I had followed all of CM's principles? Or all of her methods? Or would that have been an impossible task, given my personality and our family circumstances - a task I may have been tempted to give up?
Perhaps the reason we have homeschooled so long and are happy with homeschooling is not because of any one philosophy or method but because we took ideas and made them our own?
I ponder too much! But, then, I never want to be complacent. 
Leonie in Sydney
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tovlo4801
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Leonie,
OK. Here's what I actually think. It is so central to the way I think about things that a person would look for wisdom where it can be found and put together something that makes sense for their family, that I just sort of innocently assume everyone is on that same page. In my heart I truly believe that an excellent education can be provided by a parent who loves their children with all their heart, is responsive to the needs they see in their children, and prays to God for wisdom and strength regularly no matter what form that education takes. I don't have a solid, well-backed up answer to your question. I just don't have the depth of understanding or experience to be able to support my belief. I find it very unsettling to know so much depends on my philosphy of education being right and not being able to say with any authority that I am right. The truth I keep bumping up against is that God made us all unique. That's got to allow for how we educate to be unique. I can't support this belief, but I'm hoping that if I just keep reading and questioning and praying maybe someday I'll be able to.
If it helps that a complete homeschool rookie with no education experience believes that you're on the right track, then you've got it 100% from me. If it helps in anyway, you are one of the people that I'm glad I have access to for wisdom. You are a role model for me in how I view educating my own children. I think what I truly love about the home educators on this forum is that flexibility.
It's so obvious that we are questioning and searching and trying hard to make sure that we're headed in the right direction. I really think that God would not allow so many faithful women to go astray if there was actually one "perfect" method of educating all children. So for lack of a better authority, I think it might rest in the fact that this site is home to a faithful group of women who all employ some level of flexibility in their homeschool and God has allowed us to continue in this direction. Not great, but about all I can offer. Still a great question. I hope someone else can give you a better answer.
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Willa
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I wonder if perhaps another reason that CM warned against just adopting bits and pieces was that one might inadvertently just focus on the parts that were of interest to oneself as teacher, or the parts one was especially good at?
I sometimes worry about "balance" -- if I get TOO flexible I will end up compensating for my childrens' weaknesses -- and my own. So my tendency might be to ignore nature study because it's so hard for me to go outside. Her emphasis on time outside at least keeps me stretching a bit even if its a counsel of perfection.
That's just an example. But that's one reason I study structured curriculums, to see that "big picture" and make sure I'm not missing a developmental "food group" so to speak.
I do think though that we somehow as parents seem to have an instinct that allows us to provide that balance without fully conscious intent. It is personalized, of course, to our own selves and to the selves of our children, so Leonie's children won't look just like Richelle's, etc. But that's a good thing. That diversity is what God wants.
And the most harmful thing I see across the board in homeschooling is anxiety and stress! I can't really think of an exception right now! I think that was one of the messages of "Homeschooling with Gentleness" for me -- that homeschooling can acquire a kind of confidence based not on one's own ego but on trust in God and in the natural learning process; and that we should work without fear, but with hope, and in delight with what our children are already and are becoming.
So I just thought I'd add that thought. A lot of homeschool is about "examination" to me -- not like exams , but about reflecting, praying for grace and light, "repenting" of failure and picking oneself up to try again. Leonie, you have written before that "anything works if the teacher does" and I think that's the heart of it. I think in a lot of ways the process that we are modelling for our children is the core of our homeschooling.... the subjects play a part, but it's HOW we do them that the kids learn, just like how we live is the most fundamental form of discipleship for them.
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Willa
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Kathryn UK
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Leonie wrote:
| So, my question is - do you think one needs to fully implement all of CM's ideas, - or is a pick and choose method, an individualized education, using some of CM's ideas and adapting others, still an excellent education? |
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I keep trying to reply, then get interrupted and lose my train of thought ... finally wrote part of a reply and my computer crashed and lost it. Now I'm running out of time 
A CM education as CM herself intended it - broad, structured and in line with her philosophy of education - is one way of providing an excellent education. IMO, a CM influenced education can also be excellent. I think Richelle is right to say that the absolute essential is CM's philosophy, not any particular aspect of her method. I'd go further and say that CM's philosophy can be reduced to one phrase: "For the children's sake". Her idea of an excellent education was not one in which children learn a fixed body of knowledge, or learn to jump through particular educational hoops, but one in which children are given the skills and knowledge to become fully the people that God wants them to be. This is why CM fits so beautifully with a Catholic education.
Something that strikes me about CM "purists" is that they tend to talk in absolutes - that certain things must be done a certain way to be CM. However, when I've read accounts of PNEU schools, and personal recollections of CM or a CM education, they always seems to indicate that in practice there was a gentleness and flexibility that doesn't often come across when reading about CM (or even when reading her own books). And this, to me, is an essential aspect of any CM education - the education must be made to fit the child (and in homeschooling, the family), rather than the other way around. I have a deep-seated conviction that CM would never, ever have reduced a child to tears over maths, or narration, or any other aspect of her school curriculum.
Here are a couple of links to accounts of a PNEU education:
http://wonder.riverwillow.com.au/home_education/PNEU_Educati on.htm
http://www.muddlepuddle.co.uk/Misc/MY%20CM.htm
I think a CM style structured education, with short lessons, a broad and varied curriculum, a mix of interesting reading and worthwhile activities, and an emphasis on the child telling what he knows rather than being tested to see what he doesn't know, is a great way to provide an excellent education. I don't think it is the only way.
__________________
Kathryn
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Leonie
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Thank you everyone, for your replies.
Richelle, your words were very gracious. I *do think that taking things in, and ruminating on them and putting them together for our own families, is important.
Kathryn, I agree - we do all for the children's sake.
Willa, even though I have homeschooled a long time and have homeschool graduates, I don't want to be guilty of picking an education just to suit me. :-) That is why I mentioned avoiding complacency - its importnat for me t reflect and examine my life and therefore my homeschool.
Leonie in Sydney
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MicheleQ
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Leonie wrote:
| do you think one needs to fully implement all of CM's ideas, - or is a pick and choose method, an individualized education, using some of CM's ideas and adapting others, still an excellent education? |
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Leonie,
Personally, I prefer the latter. Pick and choose individualized education, using some of CM's ideas and adapting others. It's what my family does and it works well for us. And yes, I do think one can provide an excellent education that way.
Surprised? Well, I'm not a CM purist. I use more of CM's ideas than some people but I don't use them all.
I was extremely fortunate two years ago to be able to travel to England and walk in the footsteps of Charlotte Mason. It was my husband's idea and for me that is almost always a sign of God's will. I can say with certainty that my family did not suffer in my absence - my husband made sure of that. While there I was able to gain insight and get a clearer picture in my mind of who CM was, what she did and what she stood for. But that wasn't all. I also got to spend time with two families who have become dear to my heart. I got to visit a country I have long wanted to see and came away with a love for it and the people there. One woman in particular - Kathryn Faulkner - has turned out to be one of the best friends I have ever had. Together we put together an online Catholic Charlotte Mason curriculum and made it available for free to any and all. Mater Amabilis isn't CM to its purest possible application. It can't be because Charlotte Mason wasn't Catholic. Kathryn and I make no claims to having the perfect CM program, though we do think what we offer is valuable and apparently so do the many people who use the program. It is structured in style but by no means rigid and in practice it's really quite flexible. Most importantly, Kathryn and I are very clear in letting people know that although we are happy to offer the program, our families always come first and I am willing to bet that those who are frustrated with our slowness in getting all the levels online would back that statement up! .
Kathryn wrote:
A CM education as CM herself intended it - broad, structured and in line with her philosophy of education - is one way of providing an excellent education. IMO, a CM influenced education can also be excellent. I think Richelle is right to say that the absolute essential is CM's philosophy, not any particular aspect of her method. I'd go further and say that CM's philosophy can be reduced to one phrase: "For the children's sake". Her idea of an excellent education was not one in which children learn a fixed body of knowledge, or learn to jump through particular educational hoops, but one in which children are given the skills and knowledge to become fully the people that God wants them to be. This is why CM fits so beautifully with a Catholic education.
I think a CM style structured education, with short lessons, a broad and varied curriculum, a mix of interesting reading and worthwhile activities, and an emphasis on the child telling what he knows rather than being tested to see what he doesn't know, is a great way to provide an excellent education. I don't think it is the only way. |
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I can't say it better so I'll just say "Amen!".
God bless,
__________________
Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
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Leonie
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Michele,
You were blesed to be able to go to England!
Maybe I'll get there one day....
Leonie in Sydney
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Elizabeth
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Michele,
I'm glad you got to go to England too! And I know that many, many women have benefitted from your trip. I think this is a perfect example of how we are all called to different things. I couldn't have gone.God never put that desire on my heart. Circumstances in my life would prohibit such a trip. Circumstances in your life made it possible. That trip and all the hard work you and Kathryn have done since then have multiplied the blessing immeasurably.
But, I don't think everyone needs to go such extraordinary measures to ensure an excellent education for their children. Perhaps you were the pilgrim on behalf of this generation. I think that they key here is to follow God's promptings. God prompted you to go to England. Someone else might be called to focus more on home. Still another person might be called to consult with an outside expert to meet a special need. And yet another person need do nothing more than go to mater Amabilis and follow your plan, enlisting your help as necessary. In a very broad sense, all of that is CM, if it's all undertaken it's all "for the child's sake." I would never want a woman to exclude herself from home education because she didn't have the time or the energy or the resources to research educational philosophy. In the end, I think we are all called to be careful observers of our children and to ask God what to do with what we see there.
__________________
Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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MicheleQ
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Elizabeth wrote:
| I don't think everyone needs to go such extraordinary measures to ensure an excellent education for their children. Perhaps you were the pilgrim on behalf of this generation. I think that they key here is to follow God's promptings. God prompted you to go to England. Someone else might be called to focus more on home. Still another person might be called to consult with an outside expert to meet a special need. And yet another person need do nothing more than go to Mater Amabilis and follow your plan, enlisting your help as necessary. In a very broad sense, all of that is CM, if it's all undertaken it's all "for the child's sake." I would never want a woman to exclude herself from home education because she didn't have the time or the energy or the resources to research educational philosophy. In the end, I think we are all called to be careful observers of our children and to ask God what to do with what we see there. |
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Elizabeth,
I totally agree. But I must admit I am a bit puzzled as to why you're stressing this. Have you heard of women that are excluding themselves from home educating their children because they don't have the time, energy or resources to research educational philosophy? This hasn't been my experience so I'm curious.
God bless!
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Michele Quigley
wife to my prince charming and mom of 10 in Lancaster County, PA USA
http://michelequigley.com
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: June 13 2005 at 10:16am | IP Logged
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I have absolutely heard this. They are too busy with diapers and babies and toddlers etc.. and they have the humility to know that they don't have a background in education (though some of us think that's not worth much ) and they can't imagine being adequate or qualified enough to do the job justice. So they leave it to the "professionals" who have researched. Sometimes, the professionals are curriculum-in-a-box developers, but more often they are school administrators who have laid it all out and hired "qualified" people to implement.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: June 15 2005 at 4:33pm | IP Logged
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I have a few more minutes...
what I hope that mothers will recognize is that they can be the best teachers their children could have. They don't have to go to extraordinary measures and they can do it and change diapers and wash faces and get dinner on the table. I do think it can all be summed up in the phrase "for the children's sake." I know that for me, much of the researching and the planning and the agonizing over what has been best has been for my sake. It's been about my insecurities and my pride and, sometimes, just my own curiosity and desire to chat about all things educational . If it's truly for the children's sake, I think we can minimize a great deal. We need to be with them, to KNOW them, to pray with and for and about them, and then to trust God to show us what they need and how to provide it.Charlotte Mason, Maria Montessori, JOhn Holt, John Bosco--all of them stress observing the child. When we love a child, truly love him and sacrifice for him, God qualifies us to teach him well.
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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Willa
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| Posted: June 15 2005 at 5:10pm | IP Logged
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Elizabeth, you sound like my conscience a bit. I believe that some of you homeschool moms who have been my mentors, like you and Michele and Leonie to take a few examples, have a special "charism" -- so Michele's trip to England contributed to her work on Mater Amabalis which has helped a lot of other families, and your researching and pondering has borne fruit in a book and curricula and other things.
So I do believe some peoples' mission is centered on but ripples beyond their own families.... and I also think that some time researching and basically self-educating contributes to making a better homeschool. Our children often become like us, so it's good to try to keep progressing ourselves so that they have that model.
HOWEVER, I have been struggling recently with the balance -- how much of my self-education, reading and just plain chatting about education, as you said, is just about ME and just self-centered and taking away from my primary duties?
How do you all figure out how much is too much (with that kind of thing) and how much is not enough (talking here about time spent with children, dh, housecleaning and doing charitable work in one's own locality?)
I meant to ask this question on a new thread but since it came up here, at least in my fragmented mind............
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Willa
hsing boys ages 11, 14, almost 18 (+ 4 homeschool grads ages 20 to 27)
Take Up and Read
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Elizabeth
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| Posted: June 15 2005 at 5:39pm | IP Logged
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Now that we're hijacking Leonie's thread...
I think we know if it's too much by the fruit that is borne. Recently,I seem barraged by the message that if you are bitter and depressed, complaining and arguing about or to or near your immediate family, you are diverting too much attention from them. If you can't (or I can't ) answer the call of my primary vocation with genuine sweetness and joy, something is amiss. And that something is my choice, my decision to lose focus on the very thing for which I am certain I was created--to be a wife to my husband and a mother to my children (and the household goes with that).
On the other hand, if you are generally happy, cheerful and sweet, chatter away. You probably have just the right balance . I think the question is: Is what I am doing genuinely contributing to making me a better wife and mother? Is it for my children's sake? My husband's sake?
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Elizabeth Foss is no longer a member of this forum. Discussions now reflect the current management & are not necessarily expressions of her book, *Real Learning*, her current work, or her philosophy. (posted by E. Foss, Jan 2011)
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ALmom
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| Posted: June 15 2005 at 6:04pm | IP Logged
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Willa,
Boy, I'm glad you asked the question because I think that has been our whole struggle with figuring out this year. There isn't time to do all I think I ought, so some of what I think I ought to do may not really be what God wants me to do. He gives me 24 hours in a day, my primary duties and whatever else He calls me to plus sleep and eating. In all those wonderful things out there, what is it God really wants! I think I have come to the answer that prayer in all we do is paramount! It's the only real way to find out beyond the very basic essentials of daily duty.
One mom opened my eyes - I was expressing frustration in trying to find something decent for my teenage daughters and dreaded going shopping (I, unfortunately do not sew and cannot spend a fortune on mail order clothes and right now am not adept enough to make anything fit to wear). This mom told me that she says a prayer before events like that and makes the whole shopping expedition (grocery shopping too and she had to be able to purchase food for $50/week for a very large family with growing boys) a prayer. Just chit chatting she really moved me with her assurance that things that had to get done got done very efficiently when she prayed like this. Her attitude was after all these were the very things she knew for sure God wanted her to do because it was a part of her daily duty.
But how much of the self - education is really essential. I like it and perhaps at times it becomes necessary for me to re-evaluate where we are but how much of all this just confuses me. It kind of reminds me of beginning with our first puppy - we consulted all the experts and were told all kinds of things to do and not do and we tried following all that and got to the point of tears wondering how we could play with our puppy because you weren't supposed to chase, let it chase, play tug of war, etc., etc. They also told us it confused the puppy if more than one person trained it - but somehow it also had to obey everyone in the house. When we finally just let all the books alone and went by instinct, we were much better. But some of that reading at the beginning was important for the ideas - we had all kinds of things we could try, change adjust, etc. as the need arose but we were not micromanaging our dog training according to anyones philosophy. We did what worked for us. I sometimes think we've done the same thing with our child rearing - a lot of child books, experience of our own families, new insigts from experts and the assurance that we are given the grace to raise the children God has entrusted to us if we ask for it. A lot of those books were good to read while pregnant with the first and gave a wide variety of ways to address different common issues. It could become confusing if dwelt on for too long or slavishly followed, but at some point the books go on the shelf and you keep on going until something just doesnt' seem right - then you look back at what you have, try the ideas out, see what works, pray a lot and maybe even look for more ideas. If I pray, I come to the right stuff for me much more quickly than if I panic, read everything under the sun, etc.
Janet
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Leonie
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| Posted: June 15 2005 at 6:11pm | IP Logged
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Its not hijacking - its all related.
I try to listen to that small inner voice - my conscience. If I feel a nagging that I am too busy researching or helping others, at the neglect of my home and family, I TRY to listen. ( TRY cos sometimes, lets face it, we don't want to hear what our conscience is telling us. )
I make some changes and work on finding the balance for this current season.
And I am awre that this balance changes, as our dc and our circumstances change.
Self education is a good thing for a mother, but sometimes it can become the means of ignoring our primary vocation. At least, thats been my experience. Sometimes, I just need to live and pray and learn from that.
Leonie in Sydney
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Is it best to follow CM's advice fully?
