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SaraP
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| Posted: May 20 2015 at 10:25pm | IP Logged
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I haven't posted here for ages, but was active in the past and am hoping for some discussion and encouragement with a current struggle. My 12yo son will not do his schoolwork. Period. He also very much enjoys pestering his siblings until they freak out and engaging in a lot of very loud, physical play in the middle of where we are trying do lessons. He's a terrific, bright, curious, hardworking kid...who is making me absolutely nuts. I've had him going to the public library for a few hours a day for the last few weeks to see if a change of environment would help and, as a result, our home atmosphere has been significantly less chaotic all day long. He's also become buddies with the library staff, gotten really good at running the 3D printer and started studying chemistry from the books he's checked out. But he hasn't done a bit of the work I've assigned. So now what? Unschooling seems the obvious answer, but I've never been totally comfortable with it philosophically and I'm also very unsure about unschooling one child while requiring the others to follow more prescribed curricula. Thoughts? (For reference, my other kids are 13, 9, 8, 6 and 3 and use classical curricula.)
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SaraP
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| Posted: May 21 2015 at 10:42am | IP Logged
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Specifically I worry about unschooling resulting in 'flitting' - continuing with a subject or course of study only until it gets tricky and requires real work and then, rather than doing the work and mastering the material or developing new skills, flitting off to the next thing. I'm sure this isn't a problem for every person, but I think it can be for some and certainly for this particular child. Are there any unschoolers here who share this concern and have found ways to address it?
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ekbell
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| Posted: May 21 2015 at 10:53am | IP Logged
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Recruit the children who want to be involved in your lesson planning?
I've found this to be useful with problematic subjects. I provide the child or children with a number of options (curriculum materials, independent 'project' possibilities, etc. etc.) and my hard limits (we will cover these subjects in some manner). And then we discuss the options and the child or children either choose or at least say what they don't want.
Ideally the child then takes ownership of that subject and all major problems are over, but even when they don't the existence of an prior agreement goes a long way in dealing with my children.
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SallyT
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I think it's not inappropriate to have some give-and-take with a child approaching the teen years, with regard to his schoolwork. I'm not sure you necessarily have to call it "unschooling" -- maybe it would help to think of it as "classical collaborative learning, with an emphasis on the development of self-motivation and time management."
So, what your son is doing is really impressive. And if he is covering general bases that your assignments were meant to cover (reading, using writing, etc), then you can count what he's doing on his own toward your objectives -- which again can set your mind at ease a little.
For the future, you might meet with him to come up with a plan that will satisfy both his needs/desires and your goals. Maybe going to the library and having the freedom to work independently, away from the rest of the family, can be contingent on the responsibility to do assigned work, as evidenced by a checklist. You can appeal to his need to be trusted and grownup -- you are trusting him to manage his time and therefore extending him this privilege, but he must demonstrate to you that he's responsible enough to have the privilege.
AND you can talk about what things are non-negotiables for you (following your history cycle, doing your writing assignments) and what things might be covered by him in his own way. Work together to find self-teaching materials, so that he's not dependent on your presence to get through them -- or establish a schedule where you have regular meetings to go over things like math. You might stress to him that if he's interested in chemistry or similar sciences, math is a total non-negotiable -- you *cannot* do chemistry without strong algebra skills, so if this interests him as something to pursue over the long term, he needs to make math a priority and think of it as learning the language of science.
As far as your other kids go -- I would think the main difficulty might be your 13yo, who could see the 12yo as being basically rewarded for bad behavior. But then, you could take this same approach with that child, even if behavior hasn't warranted it. Have the same kind of meeting. Talk about taking ownership of learning. Stress that this is a skill every student needs to develop as preparation for college and later life, and that you want to work together to find a way for your child to feel that he/she is pursuing his/her own education -- not Mom's, even though Mom is the administrator/facilitator and decides what elements of that education are not up for negotiation.
To the younger children you can simply say, "As people get closer to high school, they need to start becoming more responsible for their own education. Sometimes that responsibility looks an awful lot like getting privileges. As you get older, the way you do school may change some, too, and right now what we're doing is laying a strong foundation for you to have more privilege and responsibility, too."
I have taken this approach a lot with my older kids. It's not a relaxing of standards, and it's not a step back from responsible parenting or from the mandate to be our children's primary educators. It simply means that as your children become more independent, you look for ways to maximize the potential for independent learning (without giving way on things you consider to be hallmarks of education), to recognize your child's ability to learn, and to recognize your child as the real owner of his education. I've often been willing to substitute things my kids have done independently for things I had planned for them to do -- when my oldest daughter was about 12, she was really involved in children's theater, and in her 7th-grade year wrote a play which she and her drama teacher revised and produced for the stage. Okay, so that was "grammar and composition" that year. I didn't reinvent the wheel by making her do any more than that formally. I counted a lot of her independent reading in good historical fiction as "history." And so on.
In high school we did work together to do a very formal and rigorous program, because she wanted to go to college. At that point she was far more willing to do my assignments, because she had a goal in mind and could see them tending toward something. But starting in middle school, I really planted those seeds -- your education is for your soul and mind, first and foremost, but it will also get you somewhere in the world if you work at it. When she was 12/7th grade, we did a lot of looking at colleges online, and she was jazzed by the idea that in the foreseeable future, she might be in one of those environments, on her own, pursuing things she cared about. Her interests changed a lot from 12-17, when she graduated and went away, but that was a real fire-lighting moment.
And I do think my willingness to support her pursuit of various things as valid learning helped her to develop confidence in herself as someone who *could* learn without having to be taught. Her first semester in college, she said to me that the most important thing homeschooling had given her (besides Beowulf) was self-motivation and time management. She did have an excellent college experience -- she graduated last Saturday with a BA in English/Medieval & Renaissance Studies, cum laude. And yes, I'm a little proud. And she's going to teach in a classical school, which is also pretty cool, and really not out of line at all with the principles we had in place even during our phase of less-obviously-structured schooling.
FWIW, my total non-negotiables are living books, a basic chronological history cycle (in high school we integrate history and literature), Latin, science, and math. And religion, obviously. I'm willing to be flexible about how things like composition get done -- I can assign stuff, but if somebody is super turned on by science and wants to write about chromosomes, fine. Or if somebody wants to write a historical novel or play, fine. They can do that instead of my assignment. And to some extent I'm willing to be flexible about *what* science someone wants to do -- if I've planned geology, but someone is suddenly on fire for astronomy, then I'll put the geology plans aside (or move them over in the schedule) to make room for astronomy (or strew lots of astronomy books for people to read in their spare time).
My younger kids (11 and 12) have had a much more structured Charlotte Mason education, and I'm much more attuned to her philosophy than I was when my oldest was this age (and to some extent, when her 17yo brother, who's also off to college this year, was this age). But I am still willing to flex the philosophy if the child isn't flourishing with it "as written."
Anyway, if something is working, I don't think it's a bad thing at all to examine how you can make that work with your overall big picture. I also think that boys, especially, as they get older, often really chafe at being home with mom and express that through disruptive behavior (in fact, I'm making notes to myself about my own 12yo son -- I *could* send him to the library!). I think the current peace in your household is something worth preserving, as long as your son is willing to work with you, and take responsibility, for making this arrangement work.
And that's really not unparenting, or even truly unschooling. You're still the administrator and teacher; you're just changing your pedagogy a little, not your whole philosophy.
I hope this is helpful and encouraging. I could post a picture of my college graduate if you need a poster girl for reassurance!
God bless,
Sally
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SallyT
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I posted before seeing other responses:
I think the above is why, even when I indentified as an unschooler, I always qualified myself as a "classical unschooler." Even at my unschooliest, I had strong opinions about what people need to know to be educated (and I'm fanatical about fighting cultural amnesia!), what constituted quality educational materials (all books are not created equal), and what value there is in struggling to master something that's not easy or immediately interesting.
Again, here's where I had to work with my kids and be clear about what I was expecting of them, even as I was willing to give them freedom and leeway in how they managed their days. In some instances, I'd just identify broad goals: you must be able to write. you must know about X period in history. you must be mathematically and scientifically literate. you must have a foreign language.
Middle school is a good age in many respects, because high school is in their sights. I've been able to appeal to my kids by saying, "This is a high-school prep year. You're not just dinking around. You are preparing for the next level, and to do that we have to do X, Y, and Z." Then we can talk about *how* they're going to do X, Y, and Z. That also helps them work on the will to pursue things even when they're frustrating and even boring (I try to choose materials that won't be boring to a person who will meet the materials halfway, but even so, they have to learn to persevere).
So I think that even with a more open structure, you can still work on character issues like perseverance, and make it clear that privilege comes with responsibility.
Sally
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SallyT
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| Posted: May 21 2015 at 12:04pm | IP Logged
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Sorry, I'm serially posting, but . . .
Another way to manage this is to maintain a small core of work that must be done at home: your core subjects covering math and literacy, mainly, in short lessons of maybe no more than 45 minutes each. Then you give him library time. He can go to the library IF he settles down to do the two hours of core work you have assigned and does not bother others. There he's free to pursue his interests.
Gradually you could increase the core work -- add back in more history, etc -- as he's developed the habits of diligence and self-control.
This would be the more Charlotte-Mason approach, and probably more what I'd do now with my current middle-schoolers. We use short lessons to cover a pretty wide range of core subjects (writing, math, Latin, history, geography, science, religion, literature). My aim is for them to be finished in three hours, max, and have the rest of the day for "Masterly Inactivity," ie unschooling time.
So I'm still determining what they're learning, what books they're reading, and so on, but they know they have lots of open time for their own pursuits once they've finished. This works pretty well, too, to keep people on track.
Anyway, that's another model to consider that might address your issue here. Tie the library time to his development of habits of diligence and self-control in a *manageable* window of time at home. Maybe initially, as you work on these habits, make it no more than an hour, and make your "core" just math and writing. If he does those quietly and diligently, then let him go. As the habit is established, you can add back other more formally-delineated subjects, but the time spent establishing that habit won't be wasted, and he won't suffer academically for it.
Maybe that helps, as an alternative?
Sally
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SaraP
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| Posted: May 21 2015 at 12:20pm | IP Logged
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Both of my older boys have a lot of say in what and how they study. My non-negotiables are very similar to yours, Sally, but they choose the specific subjects and course of study. This works fine for my 13yo, but while my 12yo happily buys into the process and chooses materials and makes lists and schedules and negotiates with me for transportation and snacks and so on...when push comes to shove he does NONE of what was planned. If he is assigned a core of work to do at home he tips over furniture 'accidentally', tackles people as they walk by and teases them until they scream if he's in a public area or, if he is set up in a room by himself, takes a nap or doodles or stares into space - for hours and days - and still does none of the work. He's not allowed screentime or playdates or projects in his workshop until the work is done, but it doesn't matter. He's a sweet kid, we have a good relationship and he's reasonably responsible about chores and yardwork, but schoolwork has been a non-starter for 6-8 months now despite lots of brainstorming and adjustments and I'm really at a loss.
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SaraP
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| Posted: May 21 2015 at 12:47pm | IP Logged
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I think I feel like I'm out of ideas for gaining cooperation with any kind of a plan or schedule, so the best I can do is limit the twaddle, give him the freedom to follow his interests and document what he does to fulfill our state's requirements. But, as I said before, I have concerns and it feels like failing.
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SallyT
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My 12yo is very like that, Sara, and I often feel at a loss, I will admit. I'm down to two at home, so disruption is less a problem than it would be if I had more kids to juggle. I can send his sister upstairs when I need to work with him, and working one-on-one is how we get through things that would otherwise take him all day. It's an option I have, again, because I have just the two at home now. Not so easy to do when you have many moving parts.
I don't think your plan right now constitutes failing. Not at all. It's basically how we got through a fairly oppositional stage with my oldest. If you can meet your state's requirements via things he's doing on his own, then for now that's enough. Giving him a twaddle-free, screen-free environment: enough. If it works to send him to the library to pursue things, and what he's pursuing isn't junk: enough. Again, you're not abdicating your position as parent, or your responsibility. You're acknowledging a reality and doing what you can to work with it.
Maybe it helps to think of this as a fallow time -- let the field grow naturally for a while, then revisit the idea of planting with deliberate crops later, maybe when he's gained some maturity and vision. Even if he just dabbles for now, I honestly don't think that will hurt him. Maturity will make a lot of difference. Meanwhile, the purposeful atmosphere of your home as a classical home, with an emphasis on books, historical literacy, etc, as your family culture, will make a huge difference -- it's not the same as having a "hey, whatever," home. So again, your principles haven't changed, and you haven't abandoned them, in doing what creates a better environment for everyone and allows this child to learn as his God-given personality impels him to.
In six months or a year you can revisit this. After some time of pursuing his own studies, he may be more willing and able to work with you in substance, not just in sentiment.
Sally
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ekbell
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I had a child who was like that (didn't care about loss of privileges, could lie about doing nothing for ages) about chores and in the end the only effective tactic was to stand over her and continually redirect her to what she should be doing. 
So I rearranged my days, set clear time-based expectations (you will be spending 15 mins cleaning up), obtained a count-down timer which could be paused (so that she couldn't waste time with bathroom visits and the like) and spent a few months redirecting her to her work everytime she distracted herself until she'd done the required amount of work.
It worked but I first had to accept the fact that this was going to take a lot of energy and time so my demands couldn't be set too high. I couldn't stand over her until her room was cleaned but I could for the half hour it took her to do fifteen mins worth of work so 15mins it was.
Eventually I could trust her to do the work without oversight but as I said it took months. (in this case getting prior agreement didn't end up reducing the need for oversight but did reduce the potential fights, tears etc.).
I had my husband or my oldest keep an eye on the other children in order to reduce interruptions (I counted that as chores for my oldest).
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3ringcircus
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I've posted here about Project Based Learning, and that could get some structure going, although it sounds like he may really be fighting deeper exploration.
What about socialization? He is bugging the rest of the family members an awful lot. Would it help to assign him time to work with a sibling? They play educational games together that would reinforce math facts, reading, etc? I imagine he may not want to be a formal teacher at first, but maybe once he got past the habit of irritating constantly he might like a more social challenge.
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4 lads mom
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The other thing I wonder is...what’s his temperament? Connie Rossini just wrote a great book about choleric children that I found really helpful to look into what “Makes them tick” kind of thing. Maybe it would help? A Spiritual Growth Plan for Choleric Children
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4 lads mom
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I just wrote a review about it, and it immediately popped into my head when you described your son  You aren’t alone! 
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SaraP
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| Posted: May 22 2015 at 9:06am | IP Logged
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He's definitely choleric (as am I) and I saw something about that book just a few days ago and meant to check it out. Thanks for the reminder!
Having him work with younger sibs to keep him out of everyone's hair during lesson time is also a good idea. He likes doing that and does a pretty good job.
SallyT wrote:
| Again, you're not abdicating your position as parent, or your responsibility. You're acknowledging a reality and doing what you can to work with it. |
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I think this is what I needed to hear. Thank you. Sometimes it's hard for cholerics to acknowledge that some realities can't be changed via the force of our personalities ;) and modified goals, not just a modified plan of attack, is called for.
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SallyT
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| Posted: June 12 2015 at 10:50am | IP Logged
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I need to read that choleric book, too.
Sally
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jawgee
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SallyT wrote:
I need to read that choleric book, too.
Sally |
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I read it. It's good. It helps me to better understand my oldest (Choleric-Melancholic).
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Kathryn
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Piping in just to say, consider puberty on the horizon and with it can come fatigue and a general malaise for some kids more than others. Is he getting enough sleep? Does his diet have enough protein/carbs? Is he getting enough exercise? He also sounds like he enjoys lots of "stimulus" by the antics you describe. These are by no means "professional" answers but having a ds very similar, these are things I look at/consider. Good luck!
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4Real Forums : Philosophy of Education
Topic: unschooling as a last resort
