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Barb.b
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| Posted: May 06 2014 at 5:28pm | IP Logged
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So, ds (grade 5) is in a science class. Since January they have been doing labs and writing lab reports based on a handout given them on how to write it up. Ds has been following this to a T all year. Several weeks ago they are given a new handout on how to do a lab - more detailed. This I am fine with. My problem is - last week ds is finally handed back labs from the semester (yes, not given back until now) and they were graded according to the new lab report hand out! Hope I explained that well! I feel for ds - he was handed a stack of labs with grades in the 70's because they were graded according to a form (rubric) they were given AFTER the handed them in. After seeing the grades ds and I asked if he can re-do them and they said yes. Now, I get home and think - thats not fair! So I write and email saying I have re-graded the labs based on the rubric they had at the time they wrote the labs - and I included the new grades. The teacher calls - says that a grade really isn't an assessment and she wants the kids to see the difference between the old way of writing up labs and the new way. And wants the kids to redo the labs according to the new way. But I insisted - this isn't fair because they are still seeing these 70's and thinking they blew it and they have to redo it! Well, around and around we go and she and I never will agree.
Any thoughts - or comments!
Oh - to make matters worse - I do consider her a friend! Also, my kids have been going to science here since my now 21 year old was in 2nd grade! And she never graded this way before (grading things done months ago based on what they learned recently!
I said - thats like my going back to DS paragraphs or essays from last year and basing them on what we learned this year. Not fair and doesn't make sense!
Help!
Barb
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JodieLyn
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| Posted: May 06 2014 at 5:53pm | IP Logged
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Is this something the teacher just does? or is it through a group?
If it's through someone else, then there is someone or some group that you can go to about this.
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Martha
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| Posted: May 06 2014 at 6:24pm | IP Logged
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I'm with you. I'm not sure what you are asking us though?
I'd just tell her no. His grade should reflect whether he did the assignment as it was assigned at the time and he isn't redoing them all just on her whim. He can see the difference just as easily by comparing future labs on the new rubric to his old ones. I'd also be greatly disgruntled to have his work to so long ungraded and unreturned. No feedback on his labs all semester? Um. No. I'd politely suggest that work be returned as they do it so that feedback is more relevant to them and problem areas are found quicker. Please and thank you and smiles and making nice if it helps.
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Martha
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Barb.b
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| Posted: May 06 2014 at 7:31pm | IP Logged
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Thanks! Guess I am justing looking for support!! Like I'm thinking -"i'm not crazy right!". I just sent her an email (again) saying I get she wants them to see the new lab write up form is better - but they could compare and see that. Even re-work past labs to see the difference; but those past labs should initially be graded based on the old rubric! So have 2 grades for every lab: the initial grade based on how it compared to the rubric he had at the time and the 2nd grade based on writing it up/changing it based on the new rubric. I asked her how a kid was supposed to ever do an assignment wondering how or what he will learn 3 months from now!
This weekend I emailed her with the grades I was giving these labs based on the rubric he had at the time; in the phone call she was telling me he needs to redo them to learn the new rubric. . . . So in my latest communication I said he does have other subjects, we may or may not redo the labs - but either way I will be going with the grades I sent her this weekend. I'm sure she won't like that but though.
Another thing, she kept saying that the 70's weren't really grades! Really! Then what may I ask is a percentage! Then don't but it on!!!
UGH! Think with my kids taking science from her for the past 12 odd years, I would know she grades this way! But I didn't which means this is new and I really don't appreciate not being filled in!!
Also, she has an eighth grader do the grading and teaching. Mind you, the teacher is in the room (teaching a few other kids - all the classes are small) and the teacher does the lesson plans. But I think things don't always get taught or communicated to the students like she (the teacher) thinks.
oh - this is her business. So she is owner/teacher.
Barb
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Barb.b
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| Posted: May 06 2014 at 7:38pm | IP Logged
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Oh - did I mention ds is 5th grade and most of the others are 1 to 2 years older!
I never did like that! I think she forgets!
Barb
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Martha
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| Posted: May 06 2014 at 8:10pm | IP Logged
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What ...?
I'd be very displeased if an 8th grader was teaching or grading any part of classes I was PAYING for my student. If I wanted an 8th grader's input, I'd save the money and let an older sibling do it. And if I found that out, that's exactly what I would be doing in short order. 
Ugh. This kind of thing is exactly why I do not do coops or such things anymore. For some reason people think homeschooler = okay to be unprofessional and I have no spare funds or patience for it.
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Martha
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Barb.b
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| Posted: May 06 2014 at 9:08pm | IP Logged
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Exactly!
She thinks cause she within hearing that things get taught as she put in the plan. But really!
Also, I don't like he's 5th grade in with ones a year or two older! He may be bright but in ALL aspects:educationally, emotionally, cognitively and socially he is a 5th grader - not 6th or 7th!
Barb
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Martha
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| Posted: May 06 2014 at 9:26pm | IP Logged
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Why is he put with them then? Honestly it sounds like she is just using this situation for easy money. There's considerable difference between 5th and 7th graders' science ability. The same subject content could feasibly be modified up or down as needed in a small home environment, but in a coop, it's highly unlikely to work that way if he is the only 5th grader.
I'd call it a wash this late in the school year, but I'd make sure not to take her "classes" again. And I'd be clear as to why if asked.
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Martha
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guitarnan
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| Posted: May 06 2014 at 9:33pm | IP Logged
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At our co-op, we split the grades so that 7th and up are separate from all the other grades. Ideally, we have 4th-6th together (this year we added 3rd to that group because of our classroom size). Having taught all the grade levels (K-12, both at co-op and in my former life as a substitute teacher), I agree with you - big difference between 5th grade and 6th/7th!
Also, if the class is for 6th and 7th graders, why is an 8th grader teaching it, I wonder? I hope I don't sound too critical - if the teacher is in the room, perhaps everything is okay - but this is probably something to consider for next year.
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Barb.b
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| Posted: May 07 2014 at 12:24am | IP Logged
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Thanks ladies!
I think she is spread to thin. She started out years ago teaching homeschool science class and also having preschools come in for field trips. She branched out to a small school that teaches all subjects 2 days per week (although most of those kids go all 5). So her homeschoolers just come when these kids are at science. Hope that makes sense! In other words my son just goes Fridays for 1 1/2 hours to science. She has spread herself too thin! I do think my son is smart - but she forgets he is 5th grade!
I just texted earlier that we probably won't redo these labs and I will go with my grades on them - big message there that I am in charge of his education and grades not her or her 8th grader! I see me continuing to send my high schooler but not my youngest!
This school she has is pretty much 7th grade and up (mostly high school). I think she accepts the younger ones still and just fits them in wherever it easy. Used to be she had only homeschoolers and had separate science classes for each grade from k-12. That was back when my oldest was there. So I think I may say come next year that I see respect her business decision to concentrate on older grades and because of that its just best for ds to do science with me at home but my highschooler will join in the high school class.
I was thinking that one big difference between a 5th grader and 6th or 7th is a 5 th grader is going to take you literally and see a grade as final and not get that your hinting for them to redo it according to the new way! At least none of my kids at 5th grade would! And honestly I think she just isn't being honest with me and came up with this bs to cover herself!
It makes it harder because I consider her a very close friend and her resisting my questioning her grading came as a surprise! I approached it friendly but firm in my questioning the 8th graders grading. She came across quite condescending like I have seen her deal with a difficult parent who just doesn't get it. But I think I have a good track record as a homeschooling mom that it really took me aback! (my oldest is a junior at a very good college doing quite well and my 10th grader is also proved that whatever I'.m doing I must be educating them well.
I pray it doesn't come down to keeping a friend or doing what's right for my kid. Because I will choose whats right for my kid every time!
Poor guy came away with this with the notion that he is no good at writing up labs! I need to fix that perception!
Barb
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Martha
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| Posted: May 07 2014 at 12:58am | IP Logged
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I don't know ANY age student that would think getting a 70% wasn't a real grade but just a hint to redo it according to new and different rubrics. That's nutters. My college kids would not figure that out. They'd think, "Daaaang. I really screwed up and am going to fail this course if all semester I was doing it wrong and only just now was informed of it! Mom is gonna kill me."
Well they probably know I'm not gonna kill them for a 70% in one area of one class because it's happened before, but the phrase, "Asian F mentality" has been used in reference to my kids more than once by a couple college professors. 
Ugh. At this late date in the school year, it's rather a waste a breath to bother with fixing things. You can't go back 9 months and redo of messed up instruction and grading or lack of either. I'd just do whatever I'm gonna do for my kid and if she is that kind of person, I'd have a harder time continuing being friends with her than letting the friendship go. I'd be really disappointed and frankly, I'd be hurt too.
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Barb.b
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| Posted: May 07 2014 at 7:57am | IP Logged
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Oh - thanks Martha! Thats why I love this board - makes me feel not just me trying to figure these things out! I thinks he's done for the year. My dd 10th goes for chemistry which is going well and she can finish that out. But my son is done! Funny thing is she is taking her full time students on a 2 week field trip and told me was giving this science class a packet to do in those 2 weeks. I just thought - out of the 6 kids only 2 aren't full time students. So how fair is it that those 2 have busy work while the rest are gone. I can spend our time better. Once they return - thats the last week of class! Nuts.
Think I may email something like: " Looking at the calendar I see there is the 2 weeks there is no class and then just one class time after that. I am going to finish Justin's year at science at home as this makes more sense. I get that your business has evolved from having younger homeschool science classes to your full-time school of older middle school and high school kids and that is an awesome thing and needed in the lives of those full time students. DD will continue chemistry and next year physics as well has one day per week tutoring but its in my sons best interests to finish this year here as well as 6th grade next year. I taught dd 5th and 6th grade science before she did science classes with you in 8th grade and it worked out just fine!
No hard feelings - and nothing personal! Just have to do whats right for my son!"
Anyway - I am hoping it states my firm belief and plan that this is what I am doing and why without hard feelings. If there are on her part then is that who I should consider a friend!
Thanks Martha! I'll post any new developments!
Barb
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Martha
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| Posted: May 07 2014 at 8:43am | IP Logged
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No. I ink that's too much info.
I'd just email saying:
Ds will not be attending the last week of class, so the last class before the 2 week break will be his last class for the year this year.
Thanks,
Your name.
You don't owe her any explainations.
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Martha
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Barb.b
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| Posted: May 07 2014 at 9:03am | IP Logged
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You are right! Next time though I will wait for your response because I sent the email! Arg! impulsive of me I know! Why I felt she needed an explanation is beyond me! Oh well, what is done is done! the 10th grader wants to finish the chemistry year and thinks tutoring that she does will look good for colleges. Me - I am hoping she finds someone to tutor here in the neighborhood - just one or two. Enough to look good on a resume!
I guess with my over explaining I was trying to sooth an uncomfortable situation. I may have made it worse!
Barb
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: help with outsourced class please!
