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Becky Parker
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| Posted: March 07 2013 at 12:36pm | IP Logged
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Has anyone tried both of these programs and can compare the two? I have my dd enrolled with MODG but I'm actually thinking about enrolling my ds with Seton, crazy as that sounds. Just trying to figure this out.
(Enrollment in an accredited program is really important to my dh so, since I want to honor him as head of our household, not being enrolled is really not an option.)
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Becky
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mamaslearning
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You didn't mention it, but Kolbe is probably the most flexible. You can substitue quite a bit and they have three different diplomas for high school. I don't have older children, but I've done some research on Kolbe and Seton.
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Lara
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Bridget
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I have used both and think both are wonderful programs. My boys preferred Seton. We haven't used it in years since we began local classes but the boys still make references to things from their Seton books.
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Bridget, happily married to Kevin, mom to 8 on earth and a small army in heaven
Our Magnum Opus
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amyable
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I've only used Seton but am happy to tell you anything you want to know about it.  I guess by PM if you think it might be negative.  I've used up until 7th grade books, and we've enrolled for grades 1, 3, and currently 7. I will say I liked it enough (for my current purposes) to consider fully enrolling my 3rd-10th graders for next year.
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Amy
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amyable
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| Posted: March 07 2013 at 3:55pm | IP Logged
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Becky dear your mailbox is full. 
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Amy
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Becky Parker
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| Posted: March 08 2013 at 5:55am | IP Logged
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Bridget, any specifics as to why your boys liked Seton better?
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Becky
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10 Bright Stars
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Yes, Becky, if you could tell us a little more of your experience with your boys between Kolbe and Seton. I have only used Seton, but was thinking of switching to Kolbe, after all these years and one abbout to graduate from Seton, just because it is so difficult, at least imho, to juggle the needs of the highschoolers with Seton and all of the other kids. I had two in high school this year and with higher math and science, the research reports, the essays for English; it was just very stressful for us to keep up with it all, and my husband said, "ENOUGH! This is impacting family life too much. Find something else!!!" (this is after him having to help out quite a bit for two solid years now as I am not super savvy in math and chemistry etc. which meant he came home, ate, said the Rosary, and the went into the classroom until 8 or later to help the two older boys. He enjoyed helping them, but felt as if he never saw the littles! So, I was hoping that Kolbe would not be so parent intensive as Seton has been. I really like Seton, and it is a solid program, but it takes SO MUCH TIME!
Interested in opinions...for the littles we use our own curriculum, based mainly on CM principles.
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Becky Parker
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| Posted: March 08 2013 at 10:46am | IP Logged
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Okay, here it is ...
We have always been enrolled with MODG, but not necessarily all the kids. My oldest ds, now a freshman in college was homeschooled through 8th grade. He then went to highschool (something I want to avoid with my next children). MODG worked great for him except for the last couple of years when he was so unmotivated and I just couldn't force the work out of him, at least not quality work. This broke my heart because he is so bright, loves to read, loves to talk about what he's read but for some reason we started to clash big time and so off to school he went. (He excelled there, so I know he learned something while he was home!)
My dd, now in 8th, LOVES MODG. It's a perfect fit for her. She loves reading all the books and talking to me about them. She narrates readily. She loves all the writing involved. The on line class she is taking has her FINALLY understanding Latin. All is good. She is quite independent so even though I have 3 others to educate and 1 toddler I know she is doing fine. She's a talker so she keeps me up to date and makes sure we have our time together.
Now,enter son #2. He's in 6th. ADHD. A real sweetheart, but alot like his older brother in that, even though he loves to read, he could care less about school work. MODG has been a struggle for him from the beginning (except the Math) and I've tweaked it to the point that it doesn't even look like MODG any more. But I've still hung on to the classical method and I still incorporate as much Charlotte Mason as I can. It's just not working though. I began to wonder a while ago if maybe he would do better with a more traditional approach. That is why I am considering Seton. I want the Catholic, I need the "enrollment", but maybe I need to let go of the classical part. It's taking so much of my time to get through schoolwork with this ds that my other kids are getting less and less of me. I know people say Seton requires more, but if it's more that he can do independently, that's okay.
So, that's really why I'm asking about MODG AND Seton. I don't want to drop MODG for my dd's sake, but I just don't think it's the right fit for my ds.
Wow, that's a lot. I'll stop there! But maybe with a little more information you can help me with my predicament!
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Becky
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amyable
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| Posted: March 08 2013 at 12:05pm | IP Logged
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Your DS is starting to sound more and more like my 7th grader. My dd is MUCH happier with Seton's "fill in this workbook page" approach then she ever would be with a more nebulous "read this living book and let's discuss it" approach.
That being said, I'm not finding Seton "independent" with this type of child, but mostly because it does require work, and my dd needs to be cajoled and hand held to do it. Not because it's "too hard" or "too much" (we are doing the bare minimum in some areas  ) but because she needs company and lots of love to want to put forth *any* effort on this. So while she *could* read the chapter in history, do the study guide questions, and memorize all the facts on her own, she really needs me to sit down with her, read the chapter to her, make a study guide so she knows exactly what she needs to memorize ... all in order to feel safe and loved and guided into doing well. (This child also doesn't want to fail and so doesn't want to try)
I think the rest I said in my many PMs 
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roomintheheart
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We've done Seton full enrollment. I've also used Seton's books and made my own lesson plans.
With full enrollment, it is very clearly laid out what they need to do each day in each subject. I would sit down with my dd and go through each day's assignments and make sure she knew what she had to do each day and she would do it. She would check in with me if she needed help and at the end of the day so I could make sure she was finished. But she was a self-starter and very motivated. I know this would not have worked for my son--I would've had to be on him constantly to get through the (long) daily assignments. My son would have been overwhelmed.
Something else to consider with Seton's 6th grade religion is that there is a ton of catechism memorization. My dd was not used to that and thus failed miserably. She has a good memory, but didn't seem to realize that it had to be exactly word-for-word, not just the general gist of the idea.
Other than the memorization part of religion, she had a great (enrolled) 6th grade year with Seton last year.
This year, I am using several Seton books at various grade levels with all my kids. Part of the reason we didn't enroll was financial, but not the whole reason. I did some mixing and matching, and wanted a little more freedom for myself this year. I have to say, though, that with most of their workbooks, it is laid out "Week 1, Day 1" style, so even if you don't enroll, it is fairly easy to pace.
I don't know if that helps you at all, but I thought I'd share.
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Becky Parker
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| Posted: March 08 2013 at 12:19pm | IP Logged
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Thanks so much everyone. This has been so helpful for me! I'm going to take all these thoughts to prayer. Honestly, the only thing I have ever felt "sure beyond a doubt" about regarding homeschooling is the fact that we were supposed to homeschool. It's all the details that weigh on me. I guess I just need to pray, put it in the Lord's hands, try to hear His direction and plug away at it. You are all such a blessing!  Thanks again!
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Becky
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amyable
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Becky Parker wrote:
| Honestly, the only thing I have ever felt "sure beyond a doubt" about regarding homeschooling is the fact that we were supposed to homeschool. It's all the details that weigh on me. I guess I just need to pray, put it in the Lord's hands, try to hear His direction and plug away at it. |
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Ain't that the truth!
I want to say something here on the forum, not just directed at any one poster, but just in general because I think Seton gets a bad rap for things they don't even require. I have bored Becky ad nauseum with this through a recent series of PMs but I thought it deserved a mention "out loud."
This year I have spent much time reading Seton's website, their (7th grade) lesson plans, their forums, and another forum where people talk about what Seton counselors have told them. Yes, Seton looks like a TON of work. But a ton is given, and SO LITTLE is actually *required*. They need to provide everything a struggling learner needs to succeed in any given subject. Seton encourages you to pare down to only what YOUR child needs. They really do! It's not somehow "cheating" to drop half an unnecessary (for your child) course. For example, my daughter doesn't need help with reading comprehension or vocabulary. So after doing a few lessons to prove that to myself, we skipped right to the tests - what was *required*. We could have done a fraction of the lessons if that is what was needed, done it orally if that was what was needed -- it's ALL OK and Seton *encourages* this tweaking as long as you are sending them their bare minimum.
Or the Catechism questions. I hear you on that one.  After I realized that no normal 7th grader with a life could/would memorize the entire catechism by heart I developed a plan. We broke it down into chunks of 3-5 test questions (parents are encouraged to look at the tests beforehand to see what is on it and develop study guides for their kids) and we would sit down and do it orally. I'd repeat the question and answer a zillion times until she could say it with me. Then she would say it herself. When she knew these 3-5, then I would type them into the test blank online, because Seton said it was OK to do the test orally, and OK to break it down into chunks and come back the next day. Is it the optimal way to put things into long term memory? No. Is it cheating? Not if Seton says it's OK to do smaller chunks and OK to do it orally. Do I *feel* like I'm cheating because it's not what I'm used to from my own school experience? YES!
They also encourage the children to retake the tests in K-8 if they don't do well. It's OK! Seton wants the children to learn and they realize they learn more by retaking something if they didn't get it right the first time. It's not cheating if Seton encourages it! I think because Seton does look very "school at home" we all take that to the extreme and put our bias of "what is cheating, or wrong to do" onto it, at least I know I do. You are not sinning, or being wrong or sneaky, by tweaking everything that is not required by Seton. You're educating your child they way they need, and Seton WANTS that.
I think I'll stop before I need to plead the 5th.
Back to your regularly scheduled thread, sorry for the hijack Becky!
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Amy
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Mom21
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mamaslearning wrote:
| You didn't mention it, but Kolbe is probably the most flexible. You can substitue quite a bit and they have three different diplomas for high school. I don't have older children, but I've done some research on Kolbe and Seton. |
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Just FYI . . . Seton also has 4 diploma options, I believe.
Our DS is in 6th grade and also fully enrolled in Seton. It has been a great thing for our family. He did CHC before Seton and Seton is superior, IMHO. Yes, it is rigorous but our son has learned so much this year.
I agree with the poster who mentioned the rigors of memorizing the catechism. This was also a new thing for our son and probably causes him the most grief during the week But it has also given him a much deeper understanding of his faith than any other program.
The counselors are very helpful and really bend over backwards to help. I also like that the textbooks are solidly Catholic.
Most homeschool families I know use either MODG or Seton and I have a family member who uses Kolbe.
Not sure if that's helpful or not but I would choose Seton in a heartbeat.
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roomintheheart
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And I'm sorry if I came across as Seton-bashing. I should have emphasized the "great year" part more. I actually am a big Seton fan,and would use it for any of my girls.
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Mom21
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amyable wrote:
I want to say something here on the forum, not just directed at any one poster, but just in general because I think Seton gets a bad rap for things they don't even require. I have bored Becky ad nauseum with this through a recent series of PMs but I thought it deserved a mention "out loud."
This year I have spent much time reading Seton's website, their (7th grade) lesson plans, their forums, and another forum where people talk about what Seton counselors have told them. Yes, Seton looks like a TON of work. But a ton is given, and SO LITTLE is actually *required*. They need to provide everything a struggling learner needs to succeed in any given subject. Seton encourages you to pare down to only what YOUR child needs. They really do! It's not somehow "cheating" to drop half an unnecessary (for your child) course. For example, my daughter doesn't need help with reading comprehension or vocabulary. So after doing a few lessons to prove that to myself, we skipped right to the tests - what was *required*. We could have done a fraction of the lessons if that is what was needed, done it orally if that was what was needed -- it's ALL OK and Seton *encourages* this tweaking as long as you are sending them their bare minimum.
Or the Catechism questions. I hear you on that one. After I realized that no normal 7th grader with a life could/would memorize the entire catechism by heart I developed a plan. We broke it down into chunks of 3-5 test questions (parents are encouraged to look at the tests beforehand to see what is on it and develop study guides for their kids) and we would sit down and do it orally. I'd repeat the question and answer a zillion times until she could say it with me. Then she would say it herself. When she knew these 3-5, then I would type them into the test blank online, because Seton said it was OK to do the test orally, and OK to break it down into chunks and come back the next day. Is it the optimal way to put things into long term memory? No. Is it cheating? Not if Seton says it's OK to do smaller chunks and OK to do it orally. Do I *feel* like I'm cheating because it's not what I'm used to from my own school experience? YES!
They also encourage the children to retake the tests in K-8 if they don't do well. It's OK! Seton wants the children to learn and they realize they learn more by retaking something if they didn't get it right the first time. It's not cheating if Seton encourages it! I think because Seton does look very "school at home" we all take that to the extreme and put our bias of "what is cheating, or wrong to do" onto it, at least I know I do. You are not sinning, or being wrong or sneaky, by tweaking everything that is not required by Seton. You're educating your child they way they need, and Seton WANTS that.
I think I'll stop before I need to plead the 5th.
Back to your regularly scheduled thread, sorry for the hijack Becky!
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This is probaby the BEST insight about Seton I've read on this thread. I nod my head in total agreement!!! 
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4Real Forums : Living Learning
Topic: Seton and MODG
